Rapture.....

[CptStern]

Just read the book of John. Wouldnt take long. What's to lose?

I did, long time ago, dont remember specifics ..is there any particular passage you'd like me to read? I still dont see your point. I'm just trying to understand what you're trying to get at by me reading from John

 

[Raziaar]

That would have been a predictable thing during the cold war, but I cant see that occuring now.

The middle eastern nations are already becoming more and more poised and capable again to strike against Israel. It's threatened all the time, and its discussed on these very forums, regarding the whole palestinian/israeli conflict.

It's also discussed on these forums about the turnaround that russia may be experiencing over the next many years.

The bible apparently also talks about 10 world super powers, vying for power as well. I wonder what these super powers could be.

 

[burner69]

How would it be used to keep people in line? The people who believe in the rapture, are awaiting it in anticipation, not fearing it. How is that putting fear into their hearts and keeping them in line?

People are waiting in anticipation, ergo they believe in rapture, therefore they will be good and faithful or they won't get rapture, therefore they're being kept in line.

That's how I think it goes.

So do you actually have to be a Christian to get involved with this rapture, I mean, if ur not a christian is ur chance for salvation involved in converting?
I really don't get some aspects of religion.

 

[Tr0n]

People are waiting in anticipation, ergo they believe in rapture, therefore they will be good and faithful or they won't get rapture, therefore they're being kept in line.

That's how I think it goes.

So do you actually have to be a Christian to get involved with this rapture, I mean, if ur not a christian is ur chance for salvation involved in converting?
I really don't get some aspects of religion.

Grab a bible and start reading. (not telling you to convert)

 

[CptStern]

ya but that doesnt work for everyone ..I could read it from cover to cover to no effect

 

[burner69]

Grab a bible and start reading. (not telling you to convert)

Is that so I know whether non-Christians get saved, or so I just become a Christian anyway.

I've tried reading it a few times before, it just makes no sense to me. It's all based around the premise that you believe in a God to start, and I don't, so that's stupid.

I'll just go on not believing in God, then if he does show up I'll be able to blag a ticket onto the rapture bus by showing him my nice cleanish soul.

 

[Raziaar]

People are waiting in anticipation, ergo they believe in rapture, therefore they will be good and faithful or they won't get rapture, therefore they're being kept in line.

LOL, it is so funny that you think these people are being 'kept in line'. Trying to do good for others, being nice, being faithful to their partners, not committing crimes, not doing things that would be considered sins(which, by the way, are usually considered BAD DEEDS by the rest of the world irregardless of the term sin).

Are you really so 'against' these people not doing all these things that they don't want to do? These people aren't being kept in line by anybody but themselves and the desire to be better people. If they REALLY thought they were being oppressed or some other such atrocity like you think religion is, then they wouldn't practice it! They're not being controlled by corporations, or by drug addictions, and for most religious people(i'm talking ALL religions here, which is most of the populace of the earth), they're not being controlled by the other practitioners of their religion, such as churches, etc, and is such an incredibly false claim.

Granted, there are churches and ministries etc who take advantage of people, and take their money which goes towards purposes other than where it should, or brainwash people to do violence for the religion with the promise of glory in heaven(in the case of muslim martyrs) which isn't taught in their religious texts, but these people are none other than con men. They're certainly not representitive of every religious group on the planet. Most people have their religion with god, they DESIRE that bond, and they feel it makes them better people.

So why do you always seek to ruin that?

 

[Tr0n]

Is that so I know whether non-Christians get saved, or so I just become a Christian anyway.

I've tried reading it a few times before, it just makes no sense to me. It's all based around the premise that you believe in a God to start, and I don't, so that's stupid.

I'll just go on not believing in God, then if he does show up I'll be able to blag a ticket onto the rapture bus by showing him my nice cleanish soul.

It's so you know about the rapture more...not telling you to convert or etc.

Hell also read the qur'an and torah...thats what I plan on doing so I know more about diffrent religions.

I think everyone should do that also...so people can get insight on what others believe and so on and so forth.

 

[GiaOmerta]

People are waiting in anticipation, ergo they believe in rapture, therefore they will be good and faithful or they won't get rapture, therefore they're being kept in line.

Salvation isnt by works. Works comes naturally after Salvation, but Salvation is not by works. If Salvation was reached by works then it would be impossible to reach. It's a free gift for the taking. It's not about religion or rituals or being good. It's about a relationship with Jesus Christ. Even an a wop like me can understand that. I'm not a good person, I admit it. I've got my problems. I admit it. If I werent for Christ I'd probally be dead.

 

[CptStern]

christ doesnt preach that only the faithful will be saved ..that's what judgement day is for. If it does come I'm sure there'll be more than a few faithful men of the cloth that'll be roasting in hell

 

[GiaOmerta]

If ***it*** werent for Christ I'd probally be dead. (Edit from previous quote.)

christ doesnt preach that only the faithful will be saved ..that's what judgement day is for. If it does come I'm sure there'll be more than a few faithful men of the cloth that'll be roasting in hell

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 KJV

It's alright right their. Sure their will be many "supposed" men of faith in the Lake of Fire. They can fool men. They can fool women. They can fool their own children, but they cannot fool the Creator.

 

[burner69]

LOL, it is so funny that you think these people are being 'kept in line'. Trying to do good for others, being nice, being faithful to their partners, not committing crimes, not doing things that would be considered sins(which, by the way, are usually considered BAD DEEDS by the rest of the world irregardless of the term sin).

Are you really so 'against' these people not doing all these things that they don't want to do? These people aren't being kept in line by anybody but themselves and the desire to be better people. If they REALLY thought they were being oppressed or some other such atrocity like you think religion is, then they wouldn't practice it! They're not being controlled by corporations, or by drug addictions, and for most religious people(i'm talking ALL religions here, which is most of the populace of the earth), they're not being controlled by the other practitioners of their religion, such as churches, etc, and is such an incredibly false claim.

Granted, there are churches and ministries etc who take advantage of people, and take their money which goes towards purposes other than where it should, or brainwash people to do violence for the religion with the promise of glory in heaven(in the case of muslim martyrs) which isn't taught in their religious texts, but these people are none other than con men. They're certainly not representitive of every religious group on the planet. Most people have their religion with god, they DESIRE that bond, and they feel it makes them better people.

So why do you always seek to ruin that?

I was simply raising a point.
And I'm making that assumption after hearing several times from religious people, or even not so religious people that say without religion the world would be a place desolate of morals.

Incidently, I'm not against it at all, I think it's great that people are being good regardless of the motive.

And if religion was designed to 'oppress' then you certainly wouldn't be aware of it. Same with muslim martyrs, the branch dividieons, etc etc - you just do something because that's what's right to you - you're not being oppressed, you're doing what you want to do - it just so happens to be dictated by someone else who has an agenda.

 

[Raziaar]

And if religion was designed to 'oppress' then you certainly wouldn't be aware of it. Same with muslim martyrs, the branch dividieons, etc etc - you just do something because that's what's right to you - you're not being oppressed, you're doing what you want to do - it just so happens to be dictated by someone else who has an agenda.

I'm very capable of looking from an objectional point of view, and I don't see anything in the legitimate practice of my religion to be oppressive to the practitioners.

 

[burner69]

OK, here's a hypothetical for you.

Let's say you enjoy a drink down the pub with your mates at the weekend. One day, your religion says that alcohol is forbidden, evil, whatever, and you must never drink it. Would you stop? Would you feel oppressed?

In a real life context the bible says nothing about not smoking cannabis - and in fact mentions that we should use all plants and animals as we see fit (or something similar) yet religious people will tell you it is 'immoral' to smoke weed, despite it not mentioning it once in the bible. The passages they give you say "Don't give in to sin" but then that's making the assumption that smoking up is a sin.
See how people with an agenda altered the religion to suit the needs of the times?

I'd be interested in what you'd do in my hypothetical.

 

[Tr0n]

OK, here's a hypothetical for you.

Let's say you enjoy a drink down the pub with your mates at the weekend. One day, your religion says that alcohol is forbidden, evil, whatever, and you must never drink it. Would you stop? Would you feel oppressed?

In a real life context the bible says nothing about not smoking cannabis - and in fact mentions that we should use all plants and animals as we see fit (or something similar) yet religious people will tell you it is 'immoral' to smoke weed, despite it not mentioning it once in the bible. The passages they give you say "Don't give in to sin" but then that's making the assumption that smoking up is a sin.
See how people with an agenda altered the religion to suit the needs of the times?

I'd be interested in what you'd do in my hypothetical.

That is very true....The bible itself was created by man and as such it can be changed or altered.

 

[Raziaar]

OK, here's a hypothetical for you.

Let's say you enjoy a drink down the pub with your mates at the weekend. One day, your religion says that alcohol is forbidden, evil, whatever, and you must never drink it. Would you stop? Would you feel oppressed?

In a real life context the bible says nothing about not smoking cannabis - and in fact mentions that we should use all plants and animals as we see fit (or something similar) yet religious people will tell you it is 'immoral' to smoke weed, despite it not mentioning it once in the bible. The passages they give you say "Don't give in to sin" but then that's making the assumption that smoking up is a sin.
See how people with an agenda altered the religion to suit the needs of the times?

I'd be interested in what you'd do in my hypothetical.

First of all... religion doesn't really change like you say. There's not going to one day be a difference in the rules of the religion. There may be people who try to claim such, or who try to get others to believe one thing not explained in the bible is suddenly explained now, but they will be con men.

And if you read the bible, you will know that while it does not speak of cannabis, or other drugs specifically, it teaches that one should maintain a truly clear state of mind and avoid anything that interferes with that mental acumen.

So, read from that what you will. Marijuana is mood altering, mind altering drug, we all know that.

You have to understand, that most of the drugs today were not in existance in biblical times, but you can very easily read the bible, and if you know how to understand it, it can give very clear insight onto what things should or should not be done, that even pertain to these drugs that were never around back then.

For instance, the bible instructs people to try to avoid things that are harmful to their bodies, or things that may cause addiction, and as we all know... drugs tend to be culprits of those very things.


And then again... i'm not sure if you know this, but in a sense, the bible tells one to obey the laws of the country they reside in. This however, is to be something not taken of course directly as it is, but to use common sense when applying it. The bible doesn't teach us to blindly follow these laws, even if they would be unlawful or against the word of god, but rather to determine whether or not the laws are good natured and reasonable. And, in the country of the united states, I find the drug laws here to be reasonable, and I follow them. But I won't follow laws blindly if I should think of them to be wrong.

 

[Reaktor4]

For instance, the bible instructs people to try to avoid things that are harmful to their bodies, or things that may cause addiction, and as we all know... drugs tend to be culprits of those very things.

With alcohol being the worst of the bunch, and people drink wine every week in church..
And btw, i guess that means you also want those people dead
Also, considering just about anything can be 'addictive' and harmful, i wonder how many christians avoid those things too.
The hypocrisy is astounding.

And, in the country of the united states, I find the drug laws here to be reasonable

Reasonable? Arent they just a little tiny bit mild for your tastes?

 

[CptStern]

I saw a guy get 25 years in jail for possessing 3 grams of pot on court tv under the 3 strikes and your out law...his first offense was breaking and entry(he was 18 at the time), his second was possession (small amount) ..and his third gave him a lifetime in jail. That's more than a little excessive

 

[Raziaar]

With alcohol being the worst of the bunch, and people drink wine every week in church..
And btw, i guess that means you also want those people dead
Also, considering just about anything can be 'addictive' and harmful, i wonder how many christians avoid those things too.
The hypocrisy is astounding.

Excuse me? I want those people dead? What the **** are you talking about? You're not making any sense, and quite frankly, sound rather stupid in your accusations.

Go read the bible, because it contains much information about the usage of alcoholic beverages and wine whether it be alcoholic wine or not. I'm not going to bother posting about it here, since you're just here to attack rather than discuss.


I will say this though. Drinking, and getting drunk, are two very distinctly different things.

 

[Raziaar]

I saw a guy get 25 years in jail for possessing 3 grams of pot on court tv under the 3 strikes and your out law...his first offense was breaking and entry(he was 18 at the time), his second was possession (small amount) ..and his third gave him a lifetime in jail. That's more than a little excessive

I agree stern. the law can be quite stupid and strict here. In no way do I think its perfect. The same way I thought it was horrible how people were being kept without a speedy trial.

If he was a dealer, I could understand and expect a longer sentence, but contrary to what you might think of me, I don't think people should spend an inordinate amount of time simply for using a drug. If possession is against the law, they should spend some time, but not as much as that guy recieved.

I don't blindly advocate the law, and that is what I was talking about further above.

 

[Reaktor4]

Excuse me? I want those people dead? What the **** are you talking about? You're not making any sense, and quite frankly, sound rather stupid in your accusations.

You agreed with someone who said something like 'anyone who uses a drug deserves to die'. Alcohol is a drug. Work it out.

Go read the bible,

I wouldnt waste my time. There was recently a documentary on tv called something like "who wrote the bible" showing it to be not much more than a propaganda tool.

because it contains much information about the usage of alcoholic beverages and wine whether it be alcoholic wine or not.

Ok, good. So you admit its hypocritical then?

I'm not going to bother posting about it here,

Sorta strange that you say this immediately after posting about it though

since you're just here to attack rather than discuss.

I am not here to attack.

I will say this though. Drinking, and getting drunk, are two very distinctly different things.

Of course, alcohol is the only recreational drug on the face of the planet that can be used relatively safely, and only an idiot would believe otherwise.

 

[Reaktor4]

I saw a guy get 25 years in jail for possessing 3 grams of pot on court tv under the 3 strikes and your out law...his first offense was breaking and entry(he was 18 at the time), his second was possession (small amount) ..and his third gave him a lifetime in jail. That's more than a little excessive

Any punishment for possession is excessive.

 

[CptStern]

I agree ..to an extent

 

[Raziaar]

You agreed with someone who said something like 'anyone who uses a drug deserves to die'. Alcohol is a drug. Work it out.

Who did I agree with on that matter, and when? I never said anybody who uses a drug deserves to die. Quit putting words in my mouth.

Ok, good. So you admit its hypocritical then?

I admit no such thing. I was SAYING that the bible addresses these issues.

Sorta strange that you say this immediately after posting about it though

It was in regard to you. THe fact that you're not here for discussion, you're just here to attack.

I am not here to attack.

Your behavior contradicts what you say. You put words in my mouth, saying I want people to die, among many other things. Your demeanor is very hostile in your post, and it didn't contribute to the thread.

Of course, alcohol is the only recreational drug on the face of the planet that can be used relatively safely, and only an idiot would believe otherwise.

I never said that either! Your sarcasm isn't going to make me waver. All drugs have the potential to be abused. Alcohol is no safer than any of them. And to play on your words, 'only an idiot would think there's no difference between drinking and getting drunk'.

It's scientifically proven that drinking small amounts of wine a day or certain alcohols can improve the heart. I also realize that its proven that certain drugs such as marijuana can be used to treat some medical conditions. However, this is rarely the reason it is used.

 

[Reaktor4]

Who did I agree with on that matter, and when? I never said anybody who uses a drug deserves to die. Quit putting words in my mouth.

I tried to find the post but i cant. Im quite sure it was you.

I admit no such thing. I was SAYING that the bible addresses these issues.

It is hypocritical for these religious types to look down on users of certain drugs when chances are they drink themselves. How you can deny this i dont know.

It was in regard to you.

?

THe fact that you're not here for discussion, you're just here to attack.

No i am not.

Your behavior contradicts what you say. You put words in my mouth, saying I want people to die, among many other things. Your demeanor is very hostile in your post, and it didn't contribute to the thread.

It was hardly 'very hostile'

I never said that either! Your sarcasm isn't going to make me waver. All drugs have the potential to be abused. Alcohol is no safer than any of them. And to play on your words, 'only an idiot would think there's no difference between drinking and getting drunk'.

It's scientifically proven that drinking small amounts of wine a day or certain alcohols can improve the heart. I also realize that its proven that certain drugs such as marijuana can be used to treat some medical conditions. However, this is rarely the reason it is used.

Same with alcohol.
If americas drug laws are reasonable, why do drugs such as heroin and cannabis 'have no accepted medical use'? I know thats bullshit. My dog knows thats bullshit. Are they REALLY so reasonable? Admit it, theyre ****ing crazy.

 

[Raziaar]

You were probably talking about this thing I said.

I'd love for everybody to be able to take all the drugs they want and kill themselves off too, but the problem is... they'd be killing off many other people who are innocent and don't have any relation to the drugs too, so that's unacceptable.

I was talking about hard core drug users, who take the stuff, without any care, and who recklessly kill others. Like coke fiends, alcoholics who are so stupid as to drive drunk and kill others.

Do all the drugs you want if you want, but i'll be damned if i'm going to stand by as you hurt people, and kill people after doing them, or feel sorrow if you kill yourself by using them. You were warned of the risks, you accepted them, you lost.


***note*** i'm not talking to you here Reaktor, i'm talking about drug users.

 

[Steve]

I have a hard time believing this will happen, but if it does, how and what do you think worldwide reaction will be.

The worldwide reaction? Ha ha. I would think the world wide reaction would be "Well, shit. We're still here, so I guess we're going to hell. After Armageddon, that is."

 

[AzzMan]

Stern, pick up a Bible. A King James Version.

LMAO wow, good job on picking out the LEAST accurate translation of the buy-bull. In all reality, we will never know what the original bible said, it's been edited and translated too many times over to ever have its original meaning again.

 

[AzzMan]

EDIT: ignore this :dozey:

 

[Apos]

It's not about religion. Friggen a. Religion this... Religion that. Forget religion. Their is nothing about religion in the Bible.

In a religious text written by a zealous devotee of a particular religion, and its basic purpose is to try and claim that his religion is superior to the other supposedly collapsing churches in other areas and he will ultimately be vindicated in a firey apocalypse? And it's not a religious work? It was included in the Bible, instead of all sorts of other apocalyptic texts that could have been in its place, because the ruling council of a particular religion decided that it should be so... based on theological arguments. And... no religion to be found in THAT, either?

 

[burner69]

First of all... religion doesn't really change like you say. There's not going to one day be a difference in the rules of the religion. There may be people who try to claim such, or who try to get others to believe one thing not explained in the bible is suddenly explained now, but they will be con men.

Untrue. The Bible has been altered many times over, especially as it made it's transition from latin to english. And even when it was first being compiled, certain things were left out, others were left in.

You have to understand, that most of the drugs today were not in existance in biblical times

Pot was certainly around. It's been used in society for thousands of years.

For instance, the bible instructs people to try to avoid things that are harmful to their bodies, or things that may cause addiction, and as we all know... drugs tend to be culprits of those very things.

Do you not find it interesting that alcohol is not so strictly enforced against by the church, and yet taking drugs is a 'sin'. It's examples like this that certainly make me realise how much and how often the church is used as a tool.

I will say this though. Drinking, and getting drunk, are two very distinctly different things

So are smoking and getting stoned. Does that make it different? Sorry if I sound confrontational, I'm not trying to be, just trying to see the religious side here, and you seem to know what you're talking about.

I was talking about hard core drug users, who take the stuff, without any care, and who recklessly kill others. Like coke fiends, alcoholics who are so stupid as to drive drunk and kill others.

:-| what?!?!? How many hardcore drug users do you know who go around recklessly killing people? Woah.

Do all the drugs you want if you want, but i'll be damned if i'm going to stand by as you hurt people, and kill people after doing them, or feel sorrow if you kill yourself by using them. You were warned of the risks, you accepted them, you lost.

Again, woah, bit of a warped perspective of drug users buddy. Check out the national level of violence caused by alcohol and then caused by drugs, you'll see something quite interesting (I'll give you a clue, alcohol clearly is abused a lot, and lot's of people get hurt because of it)
The idea that the church just goes along saying alcohol's okay, but drugs are not, is plain weird.

 

[Raziaar]

Disclaimer: It's 7:30 in the morning here, i've gotten no sleep, so forgive me if some of what I write is a little difficult to understand.

Do you not find it interesting that alcohol is not so strictly enforced against by the church, and yet taking drugs is a 'sin'. It's examples like this that certainly make me realise how much and how often the church is used as a tool.

By the church, I guess you're talking catholic hmm? I'm not catholic. Sorry, can't help you there. I don't associate with a 'church'.

Pot was certainly around. It's been used in society for thousands of years.

Talking about other drugs. Still, Cannabis falls along the lines of mind altering substances, which is covered in the bible, and it teaches against it.

Untrue. The Bible has been altered many times over, especially as it made it's transition from latin to english. And even when it was first being compiled, certain things were left out, others were left in.

The texts may change over time , but the old texts still remain and are studied in regards to comparisons and interpretation. You make it seem like there's some gigantic conspiracy to rewrite the bible into something evil to bend the masses to their will. I don't see any such thing happening right now.

One of the first things many people will learn about the bible... is that it is not always to be interpreted literally. You all need to stop thinking that we read it all literally like you do.

So are smoking and getting stoned. Does that make it different? Sorry if I sound confrontational, I'm not trying to be, just trying to see the religious side here, and you seem to know what you're talking about.

Smoking and getting stoned can easily be one and the same. Alcohol effects the body in a way that is much different than a drug such as cannabis, which circulates through the body to the brain rapidly and affects it in such a way that it alters the perceptions and in a sense, the minds of the individuals. This is the quality that the users admire in it, and from it springs their 'high'. Light consumption of wines will not affect the body as immediately or to such a degree, and requires more indulgence to achieve the effect that it may cause from the alcohol. So I guess its different in a way.

But I don't admit to know everything about alcohol nor my religion. I'm only human. I however, don't choose not to drink based on my religion, but rather based on my social views. One reason being i'm not old enough to drink legally, and also because I have no desire to drink, except maybe for certain cirumstances.

:-| what?!?!? How many hardcore drug users do you know who go around recklessly killing people? Woah.

Illegal drug usage accounts for very high numbers of the death rates in the united states, especially drunken drivers, which I hear about nearly daily in the news. Deaths related to drug usage are not isolated events, at least not in the states.

Again, woah, bit of a warped perspective of drug users buddy. Check out the national level of violence caused by alcohol and then caused by drugs, you'll see something quite interesting (I'll give you a clue, alcohol clearly is abused a lot, and lot's of people get hurt because of it)
The idea that the church just goes along saying alcohol's okay, but drugs are not, is plain weird.

Again, I don't know what church you speak of. If it's the catholic church, i don't know that mucha bout it. I'm not catholic. I also don't follow a church's set guidelines.

I also hold the point of view that alcohol can indeed be a very powerful drug, able to affect the human body in negative ways that can lead to the deaths of innocents, such as drunk driving, drunken rage, etc. You may think my views on drug abusers(I lump alcohol in with this just as much as cannabis, cocaine, and other drugs) is a bit warped, but i'll never sympathise with those who indulge and abuse substances which could very well lead to the deaths of innocents.




One question. Why do anti-religious zealots(yes non religious people can be zealous too!) that I see mainly choose to go after christianity anyways? Why not argue the points of the quran, or other religious texts from other religions? I'm sure you'd enjoy trying to turn Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Chinese, Pagan, African, Sikh, Shinto, as well as many other religious followers away from their god or gods and the happiness they derive from it, as well. That's why most people of the world practice one religion or another. Happiness. Not because they are sheep. This may be contrary to others who share my religious beliefs, but I hold more respect for those who are capable of finding happiness with whatever deity or deities they belive in and bettering themselves as man peacefully, than those who's mission in life is to disprove those religions and strip the followers of their happiness they have derived from it.

Just like the phrase of, "It is better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all", I believe the same to be true of religion.



Once again, sorry for some of the obvious ranting evident in my post. It's now nearly 8 oclock as I write this, and my mind is clouding.

 

[burner69]

Disclaimer: It's 7:30 in the morning here, i've gotten no sleep, so forgive me if some of what I write is a little difficult to understand.

I know what it's like, I'll let you off

By the church, I guess you're talking catholic hmm? I'm not catholic. Sorry, can't help you there. I don't associate with a 'church'.

No, by the church I was referring to religion as an institution.

Talking about other drugs. Still, Cannabis falls along the lines of mind altering substances, which is covered in the bible, and it teaches against it.

Fair play

The texts may change over time , but the old texts still remain and are studied in regards to comparisons and interpretation. You make it seem like there's some gigantic conspiracy to rewrite the bible into something evil to bend the masses to their will. I don't see any such thing happening right now.

There is a LOT of evidence that shows that from the time of it first being written, up to the present day, it has been written to fit in with certain agendas - which is why I tend to not bother with it. However, I don't dispute, that agenda or none, people who follow it very often find good from it - so I can't knock it.

One of the first things many people will learn about the bible... is that it is not always to be interpreted literally. You all need to stop thinking that we read it all literally like you do.

No, I appreciate it's not all to be taken literally, but that said you can change the bible to mean anything you want - which is dangerous.

Smoking and getting stoned can easily be one and the same. Alcohol effects the body in a way that is much different than a drug such as cannabis, which circulates through the body to the brain rapidly and affects it in such a way that it alters the perceptions and in a sense, the minds of the individuals. This is the quality that the users admire in it, and from it springs their 'high'. Light consumption of wines will not affect the body as immediately or to such a degree, and requires more indulgence to achieve the effect that it may cause from the alcohol. So I guess its different in a way.

I'll agree with most of what you said there, but it is possible to smoke weed and not get high - so then is it ok, if you're not really altering your mind too much?

But I don't admit to know everything about alcohol nor my religion. I'm only human. I however, don't choose not to drink based on my religion, but rather based on my social views. One reason being i'm not old enough to drink legally, and also because I have no desire to drink, except maybe for certain cirumstances.

I'm cutting down on my intoxicating substances myself - purely cuz it wasn't duin me gud. Quit smoking. Cut down on beers. And only smoking dope at weekends. :cheers:

Illegal drug usage accounts for very high numbers of the death rates in the united states, especially drunken drivers, which I hear about nearly daily in the news. Deaths related to drug usage are not isolated events, at least not in the states.

Sorry, but that's a lie. This website's quite good, I haven't read it all, but it basically shows the comparision between drug offenses, non drug offenses, and alcohol offenses. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/duc.htm
Illegal drugs don't kill as many people as are made out at all. I'm not saying people don't die, I'm not saying people on pills can't get violent, I'm just saying it's not as high as the government would have you think.

Again, I don't know what church you speak of. If it's the catholic church, i don't know that mucha bout it. I'm not catholic. I also don't follow a church's set guidelines.

Church = religion. Sorry, it's from my sociology A-level days, we always called religion the 'church'.

I also hold the point of view that alcohol can indeed be a very powerful drug, able to affect the human body in negative ways that can lead to the deaths of innocents, such as drunk driving, drunken rage, etc. You may think my views on drug abusers(I lump alcohol in with this just as much as cannabis, cocaine, and other drugs) is a bit warped, but i'll never sympathise with those who indulge and abuse substances which could very well lead to the deaths of innocents.

Fair play, can't knock you.
I too dislike alcohol, though I still drink it. I'm of the thinking that, at the end of the day by the time we're old enough, most people have been drunk, most do it sensibly, some become fools and cause problems. With drugs, from experience, people tend to be more responsible with them, although you do get fools. We'll always have fools, and they shouldn't spoil it for the rest of us.

One question. Why do anti-religious zealots(yes non religious people can be zealous too!) that I see mainly choose to go after christianity anyways? Why not argue the points of the quran, or other religious texts from other religions? I'm sure you'd enjoy trying to turn Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Chinese, Pagan, African, Sikh, Shinto, as well as many other religious followers away from their god or gods and the happiness they derive from it, as well. That's why most people of the world practice one religion or another. Happiness. Not because they are sheep. This may be contrary to others who share my religious beliefs, but I hold more respect for those who are capable of finding happiness with whatever deity or deities they belive in and bettering themselves as man peacefully, than those who's mission in life is to disprove those religions and strip the followers of their happiness they have derived from it.

Me personally? I've targetted Christianity because it's the religion I've grown up around. I've never really encountered much about other religions, and therefore can't say much about them.

With Christianity I've had it thrown at me at school assemblies, often see either on tv or around my town, people telling me how great God is, reading in papers - for example, the church's (sorry!) reaction to the tsunami, and it just annoys me. "In this disaster we all become truely closer to God, we must bond through this tradgedy" I'm like, shut up, a tsunami occured due to a shift in the planet's plate system, thousands died, let's help them, let's not try and find a reason for it - there isn't one.

That said, I do respect people, like yourself, who is religious - perhaps I'm a little jealous, cuz I really could never bring myself to believe in something so vast with absolutely no evidence going for it. Takes a lot of faith, fair play to you.

[/QUOTE]Just like the phrase of, "It is better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all", I believe the same to be true of religion.

Once again, sorry for some of the obvious ranting evident in my post. It's now nearly 8 oclock as I write this, and my mind is clouding.[/QUOTE]

Didn't notice much ranting, dont worry bout it. And perhaps you're right with your quote, I just can't 'love' something I can't believe in.

 

[Raziaar]

Didn't notice much ranting, dont worry bout it.

I never can tell. Sometimes I get so bitter in debates some days I just come off as really abrasive as well, and seek to avoid that. I'm only human. Just hope it's not taken personally when it does happen.

 

[Reaktor4]

Oh god.. have you thought about what youre saying raziaar
Dont think that maybe youre singling out drug users, and what youre saying about accepting risk can be applied to almost anything people do that carries a remote risk of harm to someone resulting from it? What would you say for example if someone told you a relative who was into extreme sports died when his parachute didnt work or something "oh well, he was warned and accepted the risk, he lost"?
Why not just say you wished 'irresponsible' people in general would die? And again, please explain how americas drug laws make sense taking everything into account, including the inaccurate drug classifications, increased usage prohibition brings, along with the drug gangs, turf wars, murders, accidental overdoses/contaminated drug deaths etc, and alcohol and nicotine being legal.
Thanks.

 

[Raziaar]

Oh god.. have you thought about what youre saying raziaar
Dont think that maybe youre singling out drug users, and what youre saying about accepting risk can be applied to almost anything people do that carries a remote risk of harm to someone resulting from it? What would you say for example if someone told you a relative who was into extreme sports died when his parachute didnt work or something "oh well, he was warned and accepted the risk, he lost"?
Why not just say you wished 'irresponsible' people in general would die? And again, please explain how americas drug laws make sense taking everything into account, including the inaccurate drug classifications, increased usage prohibition brings, along with the drug gangs, turf wars, murders, accidental overdoses/contaminated drug deaths etc, and alcohol and nicotine being legal.
Thanks.

You don't understand at all what I mean Reaktor, and only seek to twist it into something strange and twistedly different, so i'm not even going to bother with you. You're not worth my time, and i'm probably not worth yours.

 

[Reaktor4]

typical

 

[Raziaar]

typical

Typical of someone who thinks the person they're trying to debate with is a moron and twists the things that they say to incorporate other things that the individual doesn't believe in.

If so. Yeah. Typical of me.

 

[Reaktor4]

Youre trying to have everything both ways ffs

 

[Raziaar]

Youre trying to have everything both ways ffs

Whatever you say boss! :stare: