Release - dm_watergate redux!

Pi Mu Rho

Pi Mu Rho

ValveTime Admin | Enemy of fun
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Wow looks good, on the first picture though the top stair texture looks a bit odd. Not too sure about the combine stuff aswell. Keep up the good work.
 
looks really polished now mate and the addition of the combine structure fits in nicely and looks great.

Make sure to send this to PCZone before they publish.

Im working on a 3rd beta right now which is about 50% better performance and hopefully bug free, hoping to make the same issue
 
PC Zone already have it :)

Thanks for the comments.
 
lol, we just uploaded the other watergate to the hl2.net servers. I guess we need to change to this one?
 
hehe, will do it today.

I am updating my server right now.
 
Ok, the hl2.net hl2mp servers have been updated.

66.98.188.97:27025 [Leetnet.com] Halflife2.net HL2MP - TX
66.199.240.229:27015 [Leetnet.com] Halflife2.net HL2MP - NY
 
Looks nice, but a name change would have been cool, as the server wont auto send the new version if client has the old, all the client get is an error message saying :
Your map [maps/dm_watergate.bsp] differs from the server's.

Simply renaming the map to watergateB would have save lotsa trouble. ;-)
 
Nice! I allways thought the other one a little... i dunno, linear maybe. That has more places! I give to that excelent map a 19/20!
 
Looks nice, but the combine structure seems a bit out of place...imo, but i aint good at mapping, and lights in the water walkway would make it look awesome, keep up the good work though
 
Sweet... and I thought the first version was good.
Great map!
 
Pie Mud, you disappoint me. What you have made here, is a map, mildly good looking i will admit....but not unique.

Also, next time when posting SCs, put a good pic first, not 1 of some boring room. (One of the outside ones that offers alot of scenery would have been good)
 
I'm sorry, I don't recall advertising my map as being unique. It's a deathmatch map, with a HL2 theme (being, as it is, based off d1_canals_08). So why are you disappointed in me? I didn't say "Here's my unique map".


Believe it or not, but some people just like to play vanilla DM - it's not compulsory to find a gimmick just to make your map "unique". Based on the feedback I've had (and the number of servers running it), I'm very happy with the results.

The screenshots were posted in chronological order, nothing more. If I needed advice on how to present my maps to the public, you really would be the very last person I'd go to.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
I'm sorry, I don't recall advertising my map as being unique. It's a deathmatch map, with a HL2 theme (being, as it is, based off d1_canals_08). So why are you disappointed in me? I didn't say "Here's my unique map".


Believe it or not, but some people just like to play vanilla DM - it's not compulsory to find a gimmick just to make your map "unique". Based on the feedback I've had (and the number of servers running it), I'm very happy with the results.

The screenshots were posted in chronological order, nothing more. If I needed advice on how to present my maps to the public, you really would be the very last person I'd go to.
Click to expand...

Thats just it, you fail to realize the enjoyment to players and personal contentment of having a distinctive map. Refusal to push your work to the limits of uniqueness is insane, and weak.

What you have is a map here with no substance…it’s a perfect snapshot of the hl2 world…we saw this all in the single player already. I’m talking about distinct environments and defining logistics for your future maps.

So you think this map is great just because people like it? I’m sorry you do this just for the recognition (and money, supposedly).

Theres always room for improvement, and I advise you to ‘get with the program’ by being more creative…don’t do the same drab environments that have been reverberating through most games. I’m not saying using the environments from hl2 is taboo, but at least make something we haven’t seen, that’s remarkable. I’m disappointed in you because you have not tried to raise the bar in map making.

And don’t try to personally degrade me.....I’m not your enemy…and I admit I’m not an expert at executing the above, yet.

Now about those screenshots. You just slap a bunch of SCs on a site and have no thought behind them? Theres no excuse for your inelegance here. Aleast put a decent pic first that depicts the map well so people with cheap connections can see the map easily without shuffling around for 10 minutes waiting for loads.

Also, not to question your expect judgment on public presentations, but why did you decide to take an SC of a pre-existing fuel tank-prop with a basic light shining on it?
 
DoctorGordon said:
Thats just it, you fail to realize the enjoyment to players and personal contentment of having a distinctive map. Refusal to push your work to the limits of uniqueness is insane, and weak.
Click to expand...

Much as I'd love to value your opinion, I just can't bring myself to do so. You do exactly the opposite of what you described - you go out of your way to find a "unique" element for your map, usually to the detriment of playability.

What you have is a map here with no substance…it’s a perfect snapshot of the hl2 world…we saw this all in the single player already. I’m talking about distinct environments and defining logistics for your future maps.
Click to expand...

Let me reiterate this for you, again. It's a Deathmatch map with a HL2 theme. It's supposed to look like HL2. Therefore, I succeeded in what I set out to do.

So you think this map is great just because people like it? I’m sorry you do this just for the recognition (and money, supposedly).
Click to expand...

This is such an asinine statement. If people like the map, then it's obviously a success. That's how you measure it. I've never once referred to my maps as "great" - in actual fact, I'm never 100% happy with them. There's always more than can be done, but you have to have a cut-off point. As for doing it for the money, so what? I get paid for doing what I can do well and enjoy doing. Am I supposed to feel bad about it?

Theres always room for improvement, and I advise you to ‘get with the program’ by being more creative…don’t do the same drab environments that have been reverberating through most games.
Click to expand...

Diversity for the sake of diversity is even worse. "Look at my map! It's so diverse!"

I’m not saying using the environments from hl2 is taboo, but at least make something we haven’t seen, that’s remarkable. I’m disappointed in you because you have not tried to raise the bar in map making.
Click to expand...

I've got news for you - I wasn't trying to raise the bar. I set out to make a fun, playable HL2-themed DM map. In that, I succeeded. If I fail to meet your expectations along the way, then that's your problem.
And don’t try to personally degrade me.....I’m not your enemy…and I admit I’m not an expert at executing the above, yet.
Physician, heal thyself.
To date, you've seen one of the three DM maps that I'm working on. From that, you presume to judge all my work? That's an impressive leap.

Now about those screenshots. You just slap a bunch of SCs on a site and have no thought behind them? Theres no excuse for your inelegance here. Aleast put a decent pic first that depicts the map well so people with cheap connections can see the map easily without shuffling around for 10 minutes waiting for loads.
Click to expand...

Please, stop making things up. I didn't say there was no thought behind them. As I stated previously, the order is chronological. In actual fact, I took over 30 shots and selected the ones in this thread from those.

Also, not to question your expect judgment on public presentations, but why did you decide to take an SC of a pre-existing fuel tank-prop with a basic light shining on it?
Click to expand...

Because it was a full moon. Because I'd just seen a black cat. Frankly who, aside from you, cares? It's not like I'm hiding a few thousand letters of complaint about it.

You really ought to address your own shortcomings before attempting to find mine. My critique of your map was precise, technical and very, very correct. All you've done is pick on my screenshots and waffle vaguely about the lack of uniqueness. Must try harder.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Sometimes I'm not sure if he just is a really, really dedicated Troll or if he actually believes in everything he's posting.
 
DoctorGordon said:
Thats just it, you fail to realize the enjoyment to players and personal contentment of having a distinctive map. Refusal to push your work to the limits of uniqueness is insane, and weak.

What you have is a map here with no substance…it’s a perfect snapshot of the hl2 world…we saw this all in the single player already. I’m talking about distinct environments and defining logistics for your future maps.

So you think this map is great just because people like it? I’m sorry you do this just for the recognition (and money, supposedly).

Theres always room for improvement, and I advise you to ‘get with the program’ by being more creative…don’t do the same drab environments that have been reverberating through most games. I’m not saying using the environments from hl2 is taboo, but at least make something we haven’t seen, that’s remarkable. I’m disappointed in you because you have not tried to raise the bar in map making.

And don’t try to personally degrade me.....I’m not your enemy…and I admit I’m not an expert at executing the above, yet.

Now about those screenshots. You just slap a bunch of SCs on a site and have no thought behind them? Theres no excuse for your inelegance here. Aleast put a decent pic first that depicts the map well so people with cheap connections can see the map easily without shuffling around for 10 minutes waiting for loads.

Also, not to question your expect judgment on public presentations, but why did you decide to take an SC of a pre-existing fuel tank-prop with a basic light shining on it?
Click to expand...
Wait, are you trying to say that because YOUR map was relatively unique that it's better than Pi Mu Rho's? :LOL:

Pi Mu Rho's map is really successful, it looks good, plays even better and that's what Valve will be looking for. More to the point, that's what Pi Mu Rho set out to achieve.

If what he set out to do was to create a unique map (such as dm_avalon by 3D-Mike) then unfortunately he has failed.

If what he set out to do was to create a map, based on Half-Life 2 (to stay in-keeping with the HL2 theme), that looks good and is fun to play that is enjoyed by many people then he has been very successful.
 
Very nice touch with that lamp post fallen into the canal.

I see you took my advice to make that area more important :)

What I really want is for those metal crates to be moveable :O

Besides just that one...

Good work.
 
There's actually no moveable containers now. I had to adjust the physics so much to make them move at any decent rate that they had the same effective mass as a barrel. That and the fact that no-one used them and they contribute to the physics "lag" that occurs from time to time. Maybe for HL3 :)
 
Chris_D said:
Wait, are you trying to say that because YOUR map was relatively unique that it's better than Pi Mu Rho's? :LOL:

Pi Mu Rho's map is really successful, it looks good, plays even better and that's what Valve will be looking for. More to the point, that's what Pi Mu Rho set out to achieve.

If what he set out to do was to create a unique map (such as dm_avalon by 3D-Mike) then unfortunately he has failed.

If what he set out to do was to create a map, based on Half-Life 2 (to stay in-keeping with the HL2 theme), that looks good and is fun to play that is enjoyed by many people then he has been very successful.
Click to expand...

Whats funny here, is that my 2nd map..."Temple2" (which is fullbright, and extremely basic), is more popular than this watergate thing.
 
DoctorGordon said:
Whats funny here, is that my 2nd map..."Temple2" (which is fullbright, and extremely basic), is more popular than this watergate thing.
Click to expand...
How did you find this out?

Yeah having the map was good, now you dont have the swim all the way back
 
DoctorGordon said:
Whats funny here, is that my 2nd map..."Temple2" (which is fullbright, and extremely basic), is more popular than this watergate thing.
Click to expand...


I put Roh's map on my site for download a week ago. It has had 235 downloads since then. That is from my little known POS web site. I'd say plenty of people like his map.
 
DoctorGordon said:
Whats funny here, is that my 2nd map..."Temple2" (which is fullbright, and extremely basic), is more popular than this watergate thing.
Click to expand...

Really, this is quite pitiful.

If you have a problem with me, then take it up with me. If you have a specific, valid problem with the one of my maps that you have seen, then please post it. Otherwise, just go away. All you're doing is trying to take ineffectual little jabs at me and you're just coming across as petty, small-minded and childish.
 
DoctorGordon said:
Whats funny here, is that my 2nd map..."Temple2" (which is fullbright, and extremely basic), is more popular than this watergate thing.
Click to expand...

Pull your head out of your ass please so I can smack it with a heavy blunt object. I'm sick and tired of your incredible arrogance and your unbelievably large, over-inflated ego. I'd suggest cutting out this bullshit DoctorGordon. You are NOT a great mapper, you aren't even decent, and if you keep this elitist attitude you'll never be anything more than some whiny little tit that cries everytime someone criticizes your work or out-performs you.
 
hmm well it appears that insulting one bozo doesnt work, so ill just insult the ol' community in general then. how is a game fun if the map is boring? imagine being in a map where theres just a skybox....everyone running around on the floor, playing with the retarded weapons "oh wow the machine gun is so interesting! im having a blast! WEEEEEEE" well that would be retarded. An interesting environment is needed. Furthermore, prowess in the field of realism is great, so long as the environment is fun conceptually. If you had a 50,000 polygon map of a hole in the ground, no one would want to play it. If there's no story driving a mindless crusade into a junked up boatyard, or an abandoned, rusty, and somehow bombed out factory, then the weakness of the environment shows through. There is more to life than old factories and appartments. Just look at unreal tournament. The valve people should have made their game as flexible as that one, then it might be worth the money.
 
So your point is that HL2 DM maps shouldn't be HL2-themed? O....k....
 
oh no, if that was the case then i'd be insulting HL2 too....and that would be fruitless here. my point is that every map should not be a clone of something in the game. they should have just made co-op if you want to play the game again and again; diversity, of course not at the expense of gameplay, is vital to a worthwhile MP game. Take a look at dm_void or dm_combinearena (the 2nd isnt that hot, but they are both very different from the drab monotony of the SP levels).
 
I'd go so far as to say that most people don't really care about the setting of the map, as long as it plays well. I certainly wouldn't be put off by a HL2-themed map with a good flow and layout.

Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't lead to quality.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Really, this is quite pitiful.

If you have a problem with me, then take it up with me. If you have a specific, valid problem with the one of my maps that you have seen, then please post it. Otherwise, just go away. All you're doing is trying to take ineffectual little jabs at me and you're just coming across as petty, small-minded and childish.
Click to expand...

You think im insulting you because im supposedly 'angry' that you've insulted my maps, but im not.

Now, let’s take your map for what it is…and fix it up:

Problems:
1. http://www.eradicators.co.uk/neale/watergate1.jpg you can see the top border of the spotlight effect, move it up slightly to hide it.
2. http://www.eradicators.co.uk/neale/watergate2.jpg same error is visible here. also, the pipes suddenly change shade
3. http://www.eradicators.co.uk/neale/watergate4.jpg texture on the lower right appears looks out of place…make some 3d support columns perhaps
4. http://www.eradicators.co.uk/neale/watergate6.jpg lower right... a few boxes would be in order; right now you only appear to have props in accessible places
5. http://www.eradicators.co.uk/neale/watergate8.jpg same spotlight error
6. put a few trees on the surrounding hills…too blank of a horizon
 
Wait, wait...all your criticism evolves around some minor, MINOR visuell mistakes, including no props in NOT accessible areas?
 
.syL said:
Wait, wait...all your criticism evolves around some minor, MINOR visuell mistakes, including no props in NOT accessible areas?
Click to expand...

Yet these lacking areas are visible from within the play area; it takes away the atmosphere hes trying to create.

They are problems nonetheless, simply because they are minor and im nitpicking is no reason not to fix them in the next release.
 
Considering that you guys spent the last two pages arguing about the map it's just laughable. Hell, there are the same amount of mistakes in any official HL1DM (or CS or whatever) map.
 
You think im insulting you because im supposedly 'angry' that you've insulted my maps, but im not.
Click to expand...

No, I don't. I have no clue why you decided to try and attack me, my work methods and all my work after only having seen one of my maps. Regardless, it's not going to keep me awake at night.

Minor visual errors I can live with - I could through damn near every Valve map and show you some. As for atmosphere, it's subjective. If I put props in those areas, I guarantee that I'd get several messages asking me why they can't get to those objects.

There won't be a next release. The map is done. While I could easily do revision after revision after revision to it, you have to let it go at some point.
 
amen to that Pi MU Rho. You are never going to please veryone. Be glad that the majority think it's an excellent map
 
DoctorGordon said:
Yet these lacking areas are visible from within the play area; it takes away the atmosphere hes trying to create.

They are problems nonetheless, simply because they are minor and im nitpicking is no reason not to fix them in the next release.
Click to expand...

they are minor visual problems that most people will miss while they are playing the map vs all the glaring problems with your maps that people refuse to download...hmmm :thumbs:
 
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