Religion And Common sense

Status
Not open for further replies.
coolio2man said:
Thank you for the info.


Point mutations are the only thing I can see that could change a cow into a camel. A fish into a whale. Ape to man. n00b to l337. Gills to lungs. Otherwise, wtf makes them change? If it isn't point mutations caused by enviromental conditions such as to much heat or really cold, poisionous atmosphere how would one thing adapt to the other.
Like those sea worms that live in the bottom on the ocean that take in the poision gas from water vents and change it into air. If there wasn't spot mutation there wouldn't be anything even near those vents. Unless, its magic
Click to expand...

Point mutations for the most part don't add new information, they change it, like the way the skin looks and what structure it has. But adding new information is done by large copying errors, which duplicate whole sets of chromosomes. Also endosymbioses by mitochondrial DNA (DNA outside of the nucleus) into the nucleus adds new information. I think point mutations could only add new information by changing the many junk DNA into something usefull by small mutations.
But again, this isn't my area really, tho I would like to know more about it. :D
 
Maskirovka said:
the "first mover" argument or "proof" for a god has been disproven by physics. The conservation of energy is proof enough that motion can exist without a "first mover".


As long as mass and energy are conserved, a "first mover" is not needed.
Click to expand...


i hope this isn't a retread, this post was originally on the first page of this thread, and i wanted to provide another mode of thought here. i'm totally anti religious, but believe in god. with the physics involved, think not of energy/mass etc. conservation as to whether or not things need a first mover or whatever. think about super string theory. each quark is composed of 3 10th dimensional(we'd observe them as strings in our dimension because that'd be more like a reflection or shadow from a higher dimension) strings, all vibrating in a specific frequency. these strings are vibrating energy. ... mass being energy condensed, things all exist with basic vibrational states. viewed at the most basic levels as strings. one may think of god as that which MAKES the strings vibrate. (btw don't just say "oh all energy vibrates by nature" because physics has no current definition of WHAT energy is. *cough* i've spoken to professors of astrophysics and quantum physics and stuff who are actually co-workers of nobel laureates... physics most certainly DOES NOT define WHAT energy physically is yet. i just say "mass is energy condensed" as a conceptual thing.)

long story short, that's just one conceptual argument for "this is interesting what if that's one way we can physically observe what god does"

note: you really DON'T have to believe in god though, ever... you think god would be so neurotic to require that?
 
Jackal hit said:
note: you really DON'T have to believe in god though, ever... you think god would be so neurotic to require that?
Click to expand...

if you read the last say...10 pages...you'd see that there are many neurotic people who believe god would require exactly that....and furthermore would send you to hell for not believing in him and jesus.

but thanks for bringing some more specifics of string theory in. i think string theory is what makes me want to believe in God more than anything else. like i said before, the fact that nature and religion both come to a point where they cannot explain certain things.

string theory may be able to explain that the universe once existed as one 10-dimensional universe but then "collapsed" into the four and six-dimensional universe that we live in, but it can't (yet, perhaps) explain what created that 10-dimensional universe, or why exactly it collapsed. there simply isn't an experiment one can do to prove string theory (at least probably not within our lifetime). so it's a search for the evidence of strings...if you can't see them directly, you must look for evidence that your theory is correct.

the fact that physics and religion now both require some faith, and people involved in both are doing basically the exact same type of search for knowledge (searching for evidence that your theory is correct even though you cannot prove it experimentally) just amazes me and fills me with that sense of awe at the universe that i think is required for people to have faith in a higher power.
 
Well, if John Titor is real, then there will be more than enough evidence to say that the string theory will become almost string fact :)
 
Maskirovka said:
if you read the last say...10 pages...you'd see that there are many neurotic people who believe god would require exactly that....and furthermore would send you to hell for not believing in him and jesus.
Click to expand...


lol yeah i didn't want to read too much in this thread, i'd start having to write essays about all this. i think any time relgion threads are started, it's pretty predictable what will happen. heh

:sniper:
 
coolio2man said:
feel our wrath as we drown you in logic pauly MUHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Click to expand...
heh, man i don't care if you're christian or not.. i don't think it's necessarily illogical to believe in god(s). i just can't see how mythology (biblical or otherwise) is supported by reality, and would love for someone to showing me otherwise.

i think pseudonym_ was hinting at this earlier (i don't have time to read back :)).. for some people the belief in god(s) comes from some sort of personal experience , witnessing god(s) in some fashion. i'm entirely ope to that possibility, and if i ever have some such epiphany, why wouldn't i leave my agnostic stance?

now, correct me if i'm wrong Maskirovka, but you seem to think that even if one has such an experience, that person still can't know for sure that they've really experienced what they think they did (e.g. perhaps they where high as a kite or just generally insane). generally, from my hume-ian-ish take on epistemology, i'd agree with that. however, could there be way a person can receive some sort of "divine knowledge" that 'exceeds' the limits of human understanding in that sense? i can't say i could totally disregard the possibility.

what the majority of discussion in this thread was really about was the relationship between physcal reality and spiritual convictions.. specifically, biblical literalism vs. the observable world. i think some of us (myself included) believe that the world we perceive around us contains very little if any evidence to support a belief in mystical/meta-physical/spiritual realities (entities, realms, etc.). and in the context of what this thread became about, we don't see anything in the observable natural world that could logically be interpretted as evidence that biblical literalism is at all reasonable. indeed, to myself and others, the two are obviously at dire odds.

there are others who feel differently :). all i want from those people is a demonstration of how the natural world supports a literal interpretation of the bible (for the purpose of the thread i'm not concerned about other mysticisms). obviously, that demonstration can not be contigent on the supposition that the bible is literally correct to begin with ;)

anyway, it looks like the thread is winding down, as maskirovka said. the biblical literalists haven't posted in a while.. sorry to bump but i'd guess most people know to stay away from a thread titled "religion and common sense" :|

back to work.. :(
 
Maskirovka said:
and btw...i like the new sig...i especially like the first one :D
and thanks for including me...i feel special now!
Click to expand...
:D yeah, those two are the best. i literally 'laughed out loud' when i read yours, btw :thumbs:

i still can't imagine what gosoon meant by that line.. :S but it cracks me up everytime i read it :LOL:

p.s. you should feel special, b/c you are... now anyway. but if a better quote comes along, you may lose your specialness :(
such is life..
 
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the effort people waste on religion was put to good use on things that are actually important for our world and it's people? Religion does more harm than good. It causes fights...actually let me rephrase that, it causes wars. It blinds us from the truth behind reality, and it fills our heads with nonsense that keeps us from reaching higher levels of knowledge, and enlightenment. Ditch religion, it's time is over. The age of reason and science has been underway for some time now.
 
qckbeam said:
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the effort people waste on religion was put to good use on things that are actually important for our world and it's people? Religion does more harm than good. It causes fights...actually let me rephrase that, it causes wars. It blinds us from the truth behind reality, and it fills our heads with nonsense that keeps us from reaching higher levels of knowledge, and enlightenment. Ditch religion, it's time is over. The age of reason and science has been underway for some time now.
Click to expand...
Thats exactly what I was thinking but you have a more dynamic way with words. :)
 
very well put, timmy...we think alike on a lot of subjects. maybe we're long lost twins! (you're the ugly one! :frog:)

let me pull out the important points i especially agree with.

Lil' Timmy said:
i'm entirely ope[n] to that possibility, and if i ever have some such epiphany, why wouldn't i leave my agnostic stance?

.............

however, could there be way a person can receive some sort of "divine knowledge" that 'exceeds' the limits of human understanding in that sense? i can't say i could totally disregard the possibility.
Click to expand...

you weren't entirely wrong...when i say "you can't be sure you're not delusional", or something like that, i'm really leaning on plato (allegory of the cave/the matrix). one person's reality isn't the same as another person's...and you can never be sure if your reality is correct or not....or if a "correct" reality even exists.

furthermore, the fact that most religious people tend to support their belief with no facts, your hypothesis that divine knowledge of some kind is possibly delivered at an appropriate time to certain people, is further supported.

i can honestly say that i've been waiting for just what you were talking about....something to push me over the edge towards the belief i've always been leaning towards but skeptical about.

Lil' Timmy said:
what the majority of discussion in this thread was really about was the relationship between physcal reality and spiritual convictions..
.........
we don't see anything in the observable natural world that could logically be interpretted as evidence that biblical literalism is at all reasonable. indeed, to myself and others, the two are obviously at dire odds.
Click to expand...

a nice summary...must've had bad english teachers (they always produce the best writers, imo)

Lil' Timmy said:
all i want from those people is a demonstration of how the natural world supports a literal interpretation of the bible obviously, that demonstration can not be contigent on the supposition that the bible is literally correct to begin with ;)
Click to expand...

yes...effectively arguing that the bible is correct "because God said so". isn't a very good argument.

Lil' Timmy said:
guess most people know to stay away from a thread titled "religion and common sense" :|
Click to expand...

lol...i'm glad some of us are brave enough to beat our heads into the brick wall that is the world of religion threads. it's quite enjoyable and usually enlightening in some way.

Lil' Timmy said:
if a better quote comes along, you may lose your specialness :(
Click to expand...

say it ain't so! :O
 
Why hasn't this thread gone to Hell yet?




Or did I miss that part?
 
I'd hate to see this wonderful thread die... so I'll insert a nice Bill Hicks quote. :)

Fundamentalist Christianity - fascinating. These people actually believe that the the world is 12,000 years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them.

"Well we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages: 12,000 years."

Well how f*cking scientific, okay. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble. That's good. You believe the world's 12,000 years old?

"That's right."

Okay, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?

"Uh-huh."

Dinosaurs.

You know the world is 12,000 years old and dinosaurs existed, they existed in that time, you'd think it would have been mentioned in the f*cking Bible at some point.

"And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus... with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': 'What a big f*cking lizard, Lord!' But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw and the big lizard became his friend.

"And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O so many years inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat f*cking families and their fat dollar bills.

"And oh Scotland did praise the Lord. Thank you Lord, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord."
Click to expand...
 
Letters said:
Why hasn't this thread gone to Hell yet?




Or did I miss that part?
Click to expand...

This thread can't go to hell because hell is an illusion created by organizations that wish to oppress and mold people into a form that is more obedient to their commands, and therefore does not exist.
 
qckbeam said:
This thread can't go to hell because hell is an illusion created by organizations that wish to oppress and mold people into a form that is more obedient to their commands, and therefore does not exist.
Click to expand...
Oh. I see.

My apologies for bringing up such a silly thing.
 
MorningStar said:
The bottom line is this, my freinds. If you do not accept God's good Gift of Eternal Life, then you will be obliterated in the Lake of Fire. As it says in The Word of our God, our God is a consuming fire, and ye who would not partake in the fellowship which was offered to you by the Lord our God, ye will be consumed. As it it Wirtten, so shall it be. Take heed, therefore, and waste no more time on futile and petty rebelions, for the time is near when He shall return upon the clouds of the sky, and gather to Him His Elect and His Annointed.

Do you wish to be included in these, or left behind when the enemy is cast down to this Earth to bestow his furious rath upon mankind? God has given you the Way and the Life!! Why burn in the pits of fire when you can be raised up to Glory in Him?

You are running out of time!
Click to expand...

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

qckbeam said:
This thread can't go to hell because hell is an illusion created by organizations that wish to oppress and mold people into a form that is more obedient to their commands, and therefore does not exist.
Click to expand...

ahh the two opposite ends of the spectrum...nice to see them both represented here.
 
Letters said:
Oh. I see.

My apologies for bringing up such a silly thing.
Click to expand...

No problem Letters, it's a common mistake ;)


I was just kidding you know, since it is a religious thread I thought I would interject my opinion with a bit of sarcasm and wit :)
 
qckbeam said:
I thought I would interject my opinion with a bit of sarcasm and wit :)
Click to expand...

so is the wit on the way or something? still getting it in order?

:)
 
Lil' Timmy said:
so is the wit on the way or something? still getting it in order?

:)
Click to expand...

yes, I realize I have failed in that respect, I shall hang myself now.

btw: love you avatar :)
 
Lil' Timmy, I know this may seem a bit sudden, and it may come as a surprise or a shock but.....I love you..will you marry me?
 
qckbeam said:
Lil' Timmy, I know this may seem a bit sudden, and it may come as a surprise or a shock but.....I love you..will you marry me?
Click to expand...
no i'm sorry i have recently commited the whole of my heart to another.. :angel: :angel: :angel:
 
Man, We cannot get back on topic if everyone loves each other....................gah

We need A2545 back
 
;( but Timmy, I thought we had something special...

*qckbeam runs over to the corner and starts to cry

ok...I have made enough random/strange posts today, I'm done now with this, my profession of eternal love for Lil' Timmy
 
Phase 2: you have some plan already, i guess...undisclosed.
Phase 3 (or B...or......N): get the communist conversion avatar.
Phase 4 (or C...or......L): take communist wiccans to your local catholic church and lock the congregation in with them
Phase 5 (or...gah): get some earplugs and a cattle prod.
 
lol...have you guys heard of bash.org? it's a site where you can submit IRC logs for everyone to read...there's some hillarious stuff on there...i found this one just now:

<Neo-Tokyo> wouldnt you say suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem?
<`[6]> I'm a Buddhist, I'd say suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

thought that was pretty good :D
 
lol bash.org is hilarious:

<usagi> "As for religion and science, I'm placing a restraining order, Religion must stay 500 feet from Science at all times."


<mag8|iron^^> I really want to masturbate. All of my friends are doing it. But there is a problem: I am a Roman Catholic, and my religion considers it a sin. I want to do it one time — where should I do it, and how can I make it the most
of it.


<F|Mizan> "Canada.com is reporting that some 20,000 Canadians listed "Jedi" as their religion in the last national census (2001)"
<M|SubAt0Mic> No wonder the US doesn't respect us


:LOL:
 
Hmmm.....looky what I found...


<FarrowLeSparrow> Power...give me more power.
* mrBadger sets mode: +o FarrowLeSparrow
* Q sets mode: -o FarrowLeSparrow
<mrBadger> :D
<FarrowLeSparrow> ...
* mrBadger laughs
* FarrowLeSparrow doesn’t
 
even better:

(D33): I’ve eaten a full giant pizza and an entire box of cough sweets which, when consumed excessivly, act as a laxitive
(D33): basically, what I’m trying to say is
(D33): bbl
(Pod): :)
(onions): heh
 
And there was me thinking this thread would be huge flame war.

Oh well those links make up for it....

<Zybl0re> get up
<Zybl0re> get on up
<Zybl0re> get up
<Zybl0re> get on up
<phxl|paper> and DANCE
* nmp3bot dances :D\-<
* nmp3bot dances :D|-<
* nmp3bot dances :D/-<
<[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet
 
uh...that had nothing to do with religion or hl2.net...

and that's the top-rated one....which everyone sees at the site...make a new thread if you want to post random bash.org things.

...i need that device right now...stabbing urge...unbearable...

btw...i see a bunch of quotes on that i-rox site from hl2.net staff guys...what IRC server/room are you guys on? or is it like a hl2.net admins only type of deal?
 
lol...the one where the guy says he's saw a bunch of "your kind" on his way to work...and you say "what, badgers?" and he's like "no, snakes".....ahahahhahah
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
B
Marc Laidlaw releases Half-Life 2: Episode Three's plot
Replies
32
Views
39K
BabyHeadCrab
BabyHeadCrab
B
Community Interviews: Final Exchange development team
Replies
0
Views
5K
Barnz
B
Spamming Tanks
The Pre-Order Thread
Replies
14
Views
3K
Spamming Tanks
Spamming Tanks
B
The cut missions of Half-Life: Decay
Replies
2
Views
21K
Evo
Evo
Back
Top