Religion no longer exists!

[GiaOmerta]

Is that a threat?
Even you have to admit that it's a crappy excuse for not believing in something. "I think this view is too cold and soulless, so it can't be true".

"I'll murder your family." I consider that to be along the lines of a threat.
"You'll meet your maker." Why do you consider that a threat? Because you refuse to accept it? Is that it?

That sentence is deliciously ironic.

Think of our body as a machine. Which is it, a biological machine. Have you see anything more effective than our bodies. A more effective machine?

 

[Pericolos0]

Think of our body as a machine. Which is it, a biological machine. Have you see anything more effective than our bodies. A more effective machine?

That why we're on the top of the food chain. Its called natural selection. Imperfect creatures die out. Only a small advancement was needed for us to survive over neanderthals remember

 

[GiaOmerta]

And if i would ever have to face the man, i'm sure he'll understand my reasons why i doubted him. I live a good life

I used to say that. But, than I though about it. I'm not a good person. I'm no better than the lot of them.
I've lied. I've stolen. I've lusted after a women. I've hated. I've cursed. I've coveted. The list goes on and on. It's black and white.

 

[GiaOmerta]

What's is difference between the so-called homosapian and the so-called neanderthal?

 

[Steve]

I don't think it's religion that causes problems or gives benefits. I think its what the individual does with the religious teachings that creates these effects. It's all on people, not a few old books.

 

[Sprafa]

I don't think it's religion that causes problems or gives benefits. I think its what the individual does with the religious teachings that creates these effects. It's all on people, not a few old books.

a few old books who some people take too literally. That I totally agree on. Fundamentalism and conservatorism (that is, commodism, keep things the way they benefit you) is the cause of all evil. Unfortunately, in a way, those books explicitly ask you to follow them by the heart.

 

[Absinthe]

"I'll murder your family." I consider that to be along the lines of a threat.
"You'll meet your maker." Why do you consider that a threat? Because you refuse to accept it? Is that it?

It does fall under the definition of the word "threat".

Gia, if you have a point, I suggest you get to it.

 

[gcomeau]

Think of our body as a machine. Which is it, a biological machine. Have you see anything more effective than our bodies. A more effective machine?

Yes. For example, simply reversing the manner in which the nerves in the retina are oriented the way a mollusc eye does would vastly improve our vision. Or heck, just give us a back-reflective layer like a cat and give us at least that much visual improvement.

And a human body without an appendix that's a ticking time bomb waiting to quite possibly explode and kill me if it isn't removed would also be an improvement. I've seen those too, but us humans had to do it ourselves.

Looking at the rest of the animal world we're pathetically slow runners, our agility (hands exepted) is pathetic, really the only reason we're the dominant species is the big brain, the opposable thumb, and the tools we have developed with it to compensate for our sub-par physical attributes. Left to the devices of our bodies alone without our technology we'd be nothing but an easy meal.

 

[Gargantou]

Can someone be something in between believer and non-believer? Because like, I neither want to say that a higher being doesn't exist, nor that it does, because I honestly don't know, I think it's ignorant to state either because we humans know EXTREMELY little about the universe and life as a whole... I do think that it's not unrealistic that there's something that "created" humans, a alien or something, but if you think like that, what created the "alien" and what created the thing that created the alien etc? If god exists what created him?:s AH all these questions! I'd better kill myself before I turn insane...

 

[Steve]

Can someone be something in between believer and non-believer? Because like, I neither want to say that a higher being doesn't exist, nor that it does, because I honestly don't know,

When you believe, you're religious. When you believe there is NOT, you're an atheist. When you have no beliefs, you're an agnostic.

Sounds like you're an agnostic.

 

[Pericolos0]

What's is difference between the so-called homosapian and the so-called neanderthal?

Neanderthals were no match for the better-adapted, quicker-witted Homo sapiens. They were out-competed, pushed out of their habitats, and ultimately driven to extinction by a superior species -- ours.

We see it happen today when an exotic creature enters a new habitat, and out compete its rivals on the food chain. Just look at what mess rats or rabbits have brought to ceratin habitats.

We were simply superior. Its harsh but it happened

 

[Gargantou]

Thanks Steve Now I've finally found something I can identify myself with!

 

[Steve]

Thanks Steve Now I've finally found something I can identify myself with!

Glad I could help, but don't let that label define you. Just be you, ya?

 

[PvtRyan]

When you believe, you're religious. When you believe there is NOT, you're an atheist. When you have no beliefs, you're an agnostic.

Sounds like you're an agnostic.

Not true. Agnosts belief that it's impossible to proof either the existence of a deity or the lack of it, an atheist beliefs there is no higher power. It's not like agnosts are the 'doubters' or that they have no opinion.

And about religion, I feel that belief is fine, belief whatever you like, now organized religion we could do without.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I might be a believer, but I'll say what I've always believed.

If I'm right, I'll be happy when I'm in heaven. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, because I won't exist, and won't notice. Or be able to notice.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[GiaOmerta]

Pericolos0, I meant physical differences.

 

[Steve]

Not true. Agnosts belief that it's impossible to proof either the existence of a deity or the lack of it, an atheist beliefs there is no higher power. It's not like agnosts are the 'doubters' or that they have no opinion.

And about religion, I feel that belief is fine, belief whatever you like, now organized religion we could do without.

Okay...so they don't believe that there is a God....and they don't believe there is NOT one...so...isn't that the essence of what I said? Same idea. They're the middle of the road.

..besides, isn't a certain amount of "doubt" necessary to believe that something can neither be proved or disproved? A lack of faith comes with a measure of doubt.

 

[gcomeau]

I might be a believer, but I'll say what I've always believed.

If I'm right, I'll be happy when I'm in heaven. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, because I won't exist, and won't notice. Or be able to notice.

Or you'll be burning in hell while all the Muslims look down on you from Heaven.

Or <insert scenario if any of another hundred or thousand religious beliefs other than your own is correct>

It's not exactly a binary situation.

 

[Pericolos0]

Pericolos0, I meant physical differences.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040126/neanderthal.html
here

theres an entire list of physical differences which i'm not gonna mention, but the most important one is that their body needed alot more food during the ice age, and thats where homo sapiens excelled.

Its just another theory on their extinction though (currently the most reasonable). The truth is probably a combination of factors Research is still going on at its cool to see the bits and pieces getting puzzled together.

U should read a book on anthropology or so Its quite interesting.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Forget Anthropology...
Look to Biotechnology the future...

Buy stocks in Biotech businesses, you'll be a millionaire in about 15 years, and you'll have me to thank.

 

[gcomeau]

Pericolos0, I meant physical differences.

You might want to browse through here for a while.

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/projects/human/#

Click on "Click here to enter the gallery", then follow the instructions, that'll let you see a graphic representation of some of the differences, and will also let you see the longer-term progression of primate evolution over time. Of the skulls at least...

 

[GiaOmerta]

So, what's the difference between adaptation and evolution?

 

[Pericolos0]

it doesnt show much except some skulls imo ;s
no neanderthal.

They also show the evolution as a straight line, while it actually had alot of branches. Neanderthal being one

 

[Pericolos0]

So, what's the difference between adaptation and evolution?

Could say adaptation is a part of evolution. A species adapts to its enviroment by weeding out the ones that have a better chance of survival in the new enviroment. Like the giraffe, the ones with the longest necks had better acces to food . So probably a genetic mutation cause a giraffe being born with a longer neck. It had better chances of survival, and thus better chances to reproduce. Several steps and several millions of years later, you have a really big giraffe

 

[GiaOmerta]

Why do you degrade yourself, Calling yourself an animal. Does'nt make sense.

 

[gcomeau]

it doesnt show much except some skulls imo ;s
no neanderthal.

Neanderthal is the second last in the modern progression, it just doesn't label it that way until you open it's entry in the window so you can rotate it around and give it a look over.

They also show the evolution as a straight line, while it actually had alot of branches. Neanderthal being one

It's not meant to be comprehensive or anything as far as I can tell, just to give you a general overview of how things progressed.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

As far as religion vs. atheism goes, religious beliefs are definitely not unfalsifiable, but atheism is definitely logically impossible and entails a very unsavory worldview (though you'll find many people who cling to it).

Someone doesn't know what atheism is.
Logically impossible? In what way is it logically impossible to assume the universe isn't controlled in minutiae by some latter-day Santa Claus variant, the only proof of which lies in a series of ghost stories from a time when people thought illnesses were caused by curses, while they shat 'harmlessly' in the street?

Here's a real logic problem: Infallible gods make mistakes. Oh snap.

Unsavoury? Not to me. The only thing unsavoury about atheism is that people who worship said Santa Claus talk down to me.
Yeah, I 'cling' to a 'soulless' devaluation of human life. Perfect description of a random animal there.
Fun fact: I'm soulless, and you're the same as me. What does that tell us?

With atheism, you're living in a dark, cold, soulless accident of a universe where your life has no more meaning to it than grass does. Humankind is just the random chance of the right chemicals coming together to form life, evolve and mutate randomly over billions of years into what we are now, and will eventually die of heatdeath when the sun explodes. No one and nothing holds any value.

Right, so let's check the universe:

Dark? I see light everywhere. Cold? Not in the summer. Or in the middle of the sun.
Unless you mean the metaphorical 'light/warmth of god'. Convenient that it's invisible, tasteless, intangible and silent in every sense of the words, provides no tangible benefit, nor a tangible harm should it be removed.
Otherwise you could easilly prove to me that it's real. So: Logic means basing your conclusions on a lack of evidence.

There's no evidence that surgically replacing my eyes with golf balls won't give me super powers, so let's give it a try! After all, a 3000 year old sumatran text says it's a great idea, and that can't possibly be wrong.

In fact, god is infallible, so he should be able to instantly convince me that he exists and shoots magic happy rays. After all, the alternative is that I join 'the army of satan', (satan being a character that omnipotent god has oddly allowed to exist).

So god, despite having the ability to instantly rescue me from eternal torture and prevent me from making satan stronger, has decided not to. Logic there too, eh?
If it's all part of 'god's plan' (another conveniently invisible thing), then 'god's plan' is apparently to fail. (logical flaw #5).

I have another name for the 'light of god': The placebo effect.

Yeah, the universe is an accident. An accident in the same way I can accidently find 20 bucks on the sidewalk.
If you're implying that atheists regret existence, you must be confused with some other group.

As people have already pointed out, you must not understand what evolution is either. Certainly not random. If anything, the moral is to try our best and be as successful as possible, because everything we do can have far-reaching effects.

The sun's going to 'blow up' whether you believe in god or not. The question is, are you just going to sit there praying, or are you going to get off your ass and build a rocket to pluto?
Again, try your best and make the future fun for others. That's value.

Believing that god is going to do all the heavilly lifting for you is defeatist talk. That guy can't even write an interesting book, for cripesakes.

It seems odd to me that you are criticising my beliefs as simultaneously confusingly random and dully linear. Another logic puzzle there.

Free will in atheism? Kiss it goodbye. If all your brain is is chemical reactions responding to events predetermined at the big bang, you can never make a decision or choice of your own free will. It may appear that way, but free will in a deterministic universe is impossible.

No, see you're still stuck in 'theist thinking' mode. The big bang is an explosion, not a god. It can't predetermine shit.
When has any atheist ever brought up determinism anyways? You act as though they are somehow intertwined.

Guess what? I think determinism is crap too. Hiesenberg uncertainty, quantum mechanics, chaos theory. Everything shows that it doesn't work. Determinism only works if you rely exclusively on newtonian physics to describe the universe, which is a rather flawed approach.

Plus, there's the logic behind it. I could choose to make a reference to any number after this asterix.* Free will lets me choose any number I want, and it's impossible for anyone or anything to predict.

So, we do live in a partially randomized universe, where free will and choices exist within a loose structure. There's no incredible machine telling me what to do, and no 'god's law' constraining a systemically boring life to a boringly systemic afterlife.
There's no god holding me by a leash, and I'm not going to be given eternal torture if I don't obey.
Atheism isn't just more logical. It's more fun. Avoiding church and thinking for myself have added more value to my life than Jerry Falwell ever could in a thousand years of sweaty sputtering.

Screw the aztecs, I'm not sacrificing a perfectly good goat. Screw the jews, I'll eat pork. Screw the muslims, I likes my women as naked as possible. Screw the christians, I'm going to get a quickie divorce if my wife turns stupid, assuming I get married at all. Whatever you worship in japan, screw you too.

There's no holy land to fight for and no arc of the covenant that might melt my face. There's no punishment for sleeping in on sundays and no reason to pity strangers because they're different. There's no excuses when bad things happen, and there's no deity taking credit for my acheivements. Prayer doesn't work, and The Beatles really are bigger than jesus because jesus is dead and his record sales sucked.

The entire basis of religion is that you make your life shittier now in exchange for some future life that is SO AWESOME that it's description is exclusive to a lunatic's blog from 2000 years ago.

I, for one, am not going to waste what is more likely than not my only life following orders from imaginary ghosts in order to acheive a life in an imaginary place where absolutely nothing of intrest happens. Boredom in the pursuit of boredom is not the life for me.

*I could even choose no number at all. Didn't predict that one, did ya?

 

[Pericolos0]

Why do you degrade yourself, Calling yourself an animal. Does'nt make sense.

I dont degrade myself. Its our intelligence which makes us alot different from animals.

But please be honest. Look at your body. You have thesame traits as most mammals. yea eat like an animal, you shit like an animal, you **** like an animal. All of this in a way more cleaner and civilised variation though .

i dont call myself an animal, but i aknowledge we are related. But its our intelligence that sets us aparts and makes us superior.

 

[Absinthe]

Mecha... You brought a tear to my eye...

 

[GiaOmerta]

Yeah, I understand we're related. Related in a sense that we're all terrestrial beings. So the relation has to be their.

i dont call myself an animal, but i aknowledge we are related. But its our intelligence that sets us aparts and makes us superior.

Yup.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Mechagodzilla, I feel the same why. F religion.
Read your Bible, that's what matters. Not some stupid man made rituals.

 

[gcomeau]

Why do you degrade yourself, Calling yourself an animal. Does'nt make sense.

Courtesy of the good people at dictionary.com:

an·i·mal noun - A multicellular organism of the kingdom Animalia, differing from plants in certain typical characteristics such as capacity for locomotion, nonphotosynthetic metabolism, pronounced response to stimuli, restricted growth, and fixed bodily structure.

That's us.

If it doesn't make sense to you that would suggest you don't know what the word means. You might as well say it's degrading to call yourself "organic".

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Many of the same wars would have taken place, just for different public reasons.

Some would not have, some that never did happen in real life would have.

In the days of old religious war (not talking about now, I mean the religious wars that wiped out huge populations) there always was some other undertone to it besides religion.

 

[Pericolos0]

Mechagodzilla, the big bang wasnt really an explosion and we do not know what caused it (if it was even caused, cos it could have happened without a cause). May sound weird from me saying it, but god is actually a possible explanation, amongst loads of other theories.

 

[GiaOmerta]

If it doesn't make sense to you that would suggest you don't know what the word means. You might as well say it's degrading to call yourself "organic".

Makes sense. Some idiot typed up a definition.

 

[gcomeau]

Makes sense. Some idiot typed up a definition.

Yeah... and not only that, but another idiot over at Oxford did it too!

animal • noun a living organism which feeds on organic matter, has specialized sense organs and nervous system, and is able to move about and to respond rapidly to stimuli.

— ORIGIN from Latin animalis ‘having breath’.

Those idiots... world's full of them...

 

[Pericolos0]

you guys dont get the point. definitions are nice for scientists but its for a human to decide wheter he thinks he's an animal or not. Some people find that degrading.

Technically i am one, but i dont feel like one when i look at other animals.

 

[gcomeau]

you guys dont get the point. definitions are nice for scientists but its for a human to decide wheter he thinks he's an animal or not.

To the same degree that it's up to a human to decide if he thinks he's carbon based or not.

I mean, if you really find something distasteful about carbon and insist on claiming you're made of silicon or something then whatever... but if you tell me I'm not making sense when I state the obvious fact that humans are in fact made of carbon then I'm going to smack you over the head with some rather undeniable scientific facts.

That's a general "you" btw, not directed at you personally.

 

[Pericolos0]

you still dont understand what i mean hehe

If you believe in evolution then that definition is super logical. If you dont or have doubts about it, and believe you were created by god in some way, that definition means shit. Just let people have their opinions
it's the idea 'animal' as a lower being that were talking about.

 

[GiaOmerta]

gcomeau, your telling me.
Another thing too. People dont know how to drive too.