Remember good times?

Sulkdodds said:
EDIT: Yes you can...it's generally 'fire in short bursts, aim for the centre of mass, drag your crosshair down when it gets pulled up, make sure you're still and in the optimum stance...' isn't it?
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None of those will hcange the DOD:S cone of fire. Yeah the recoil, not the cone of fire.
 
TheSomeone said:
Remember when a guns in games shot somewhere in the vicinity of your crosshair? Remember when you could actually do what you wanted, and weren't restriced by frustrating balancing "features" like massive cones of fire?

What happens to games that are actually fun to just get in and get out of?

Developers these days are all taking on to the shittiest trend (excuse my language). They want to provide an immersive teamplay experience so bad that they're willing to sacrifice the power of the player. They don't realize it completely defeats the purpose. I always see mod and game developers flauting "Unprecedented teamwork, you will quickly realize that playing as a lone wolf will get you nowhere," which is some of the most pretentious BS I heard.

Basically, developers directly state that they are making the individual weaker in order to encourage teamwork. Unfortuneatly, we all hate being weak in a game. We hate shooting 50 bullets at some guy and having them land all around him, and for him to turn around and with pure luck, get a headshot with a sidearm. So yeah, working as a team is fun, but having your bullets land 5 feet from where you mean them to land isn't.

Not only that, but the idea is incredibly stale. It's come to a point where I don't even care if the game offers "an unprecedented team experience." I'm sick and tired of it, and I wish someone would come with something original, something else than "pick between this really weak class and this really weak class, but keep in mind that they complete each other." Oh yeah, I"m sure i'll find another player on a pub fully willing to pick that other class and follow me around. How many times in DOD, as a sub-machine gunner, have you followed around a sniper and just camped the doorway of his room to make sure he wasn't flanked? During the whole game?

Games who try to achieve such "awesome teamplay" are reminiscent of self-conscious teenage girls. They're absolutely no fun to have around, and it doesn't matter if they're beautiful, they're shallow and boring. They try so hard to be popular that it completely backfires. The girls who get all the guys are the ones who aren't afraid to be a little crazy, rather than trying to sell the same thing everyone else does (boobs but and small waists).

You know what the next hugely popular mod is going to be? No, it won't be the one with jaw-dropping media that promises unprecedented team-play in which "the lone wolf is worth nothing" (COUGHINSURGENCYMODCOUGH), it'll be the mod that get a release within two months of its start, with cruddy models and ugly maps, but with a fresh gameplay that focuses on the player actually controlling where his bullets will land. And yeah, you can mark my words.
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Yeah, I remember when you could hold down the trigger on an automatic rifle and shoot hole-in-hole at any distance. Those days SUCKED! I hope to god they never come back.

.bog.
 
It's all down to taste, really. I prefer the dumb-down-the-accuracy-so-there's-skill-involved aspect and not mindless gunfire. Like, to me, UT isn't fun, but for some reason SS is. Hmm.
 
I don't mind the odd mindless deathmatch. They can be real fun with some mates in a room, the laughter! But i just prefer to actually use a bit of skill to get the kill.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Isn't Enemy Territory quite complex though? The blowing up the doors, the arming/disarming the bombs, the classes, the airstrikes, the objectives...I know I sure was baffled when I first played it. Then again I was young and naive when I first played ET. :p
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Yep. I didn't like Wolfenstien: Enemy Territory's online part at all. Too complicated. Not enough fun.

Plus everyone was so good at it and i was this noob.

Everyone kept yelling "medic" every few seconds, like everytime i played, I almost felt like they were yelling at me. even though i wasn't a medic.
 
the only reason you cite as a game being realistic is the accuracy of a given weapon.

why dont you learn to aim?
 
gh0st said:
the only reason you cite as a game being realistic is the accuracy of a given weapon.

why dont you learn to aim?
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Who are you talking to?
 
I like the cone of fire thing. The first time i remember seeing this in a game was in Goldeneye 007. that silver russian machine gun was a little inaccurate but it was still so sweet.

I can't stand the machine guns in games where every bullet pretty much lands in the same exact spot. i mean come on, guns have recoil. when you fire the thing its going to spray. Same goes for games where u drive an F1 car. I don't like them becuase they drive like on rails. they don't slide sideways and things like sports cars and other race cars do.

I haven't played Call of duty and games like that so i can't comment other than, "i hate team games"
 
Man I loved MOHAA both singleplayer and online.

In an online game I could choose my class (they were all good and could still manage to kill each other in close/far combat). I could singlehandedly dominate a server and my aim was perfect.

I loved the lack of "aiming cone" (still recoil so machine guns were not overpowered) the ability to pick up "magic healing packs" and that I could sprint and shoot and win without lieing prone or ducking all the time.

Sure I could play as a team but I could also go alone and get something accomplished. I wish developers would stop making so many games without health bars, "epic" combat and squad tactics.

However there are still enough games with shoot em up action for me to not complain they "just dont make em like they used too".

Oh and QUIT MAKING GAMES ROUND BASED. I love CS but it seems every game now I have to wait 15sec before I can spawn again. Do you know how many HOURS you have not played DOD or BF2 waiting to respawn while playing it?
 
gh0st said:
you

six
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I was just verifying because I didn't want to assume that you so completely and utterly misunderstood my point.

Good aim doesn't really help if the cone of fire looks like this, does it?
t_50_standing.jpg
 
have you ever fired a gun before? the numerous models of glocks i've shot are VERY difficult to land where you are aiming when you are cycling very quickly. the mauser mechanism equiped rifles i've shot are rather easy to, though, because they offer you the chance to recover from the recoil you've taken. ive never shot a thompson before but i can imagine that even at several feet away, hitting a specific target while firing fully automatic would be very difficult. i have, however, fired an m14 before. the more rapidly you fire, the more likely you are to hit your target. i admit that your particular screenshot is outrageous, but most likely deceptive - at any rate, the target would have been killed. it looks like you fired an entire magazine most likely on fully automatic and got 6-8 hits on a target (?) feet away, including 2 headshots. thats pretty reasonable. sounds like you just need to shoot 2-3 round bursts - like real life. if you want fictional guns play unreal tournament or quake.
 
gh0st said:
like real life. if you want fictional guns play unreal tournament or quake.
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Okay, please bother to read through the thread, I'd rather not cycle through this argument.
 
TheSomeone said:
Yeah, and standing still. How often aer you going to be standing still facing the opponents spread out hitboxes and have him stand still?
Click to expand...

Good aim is now factored in.
 
TheSomeone said:
Do you know how close 10 feet is?
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Do you know what happens when you point your gun even 10 degrees away from your intended target at 10 feet? That's about 20 inches or so off the target. That's easily enough to completely miss someone.

http://oregonstate.edu/~holtt/range/t_10_standing - 10 feet once again.

Now try aiming at something 50 feet away while moving in excess of 10 feet a second. Unless you have the steadiest arms in the world, you are bound to be off a few degrees. Two degrees off course at 50 feet is about the same as 10 degrees off course at 10 feet.

Excuse the rough estimations.
 
Okay I don't see your point anymore. You're never going to get within ten feets of anyone in DOD:S.

Just took this screenshot. 50 feet, standing still. Rather amusing I must say.

 
Shens said:
That player would be dead.
Click to expand...
What if that player was shooting back?

"I hope my bullets hit him before his bullets hit mine"?

Then it's too much about luck.

It's what I liked about Dod, every shot landed very close to your crosshair. If you could control your crosshair, you could control your bullets. Skill meant something. Now it's "Oh shit (sprays every bullet in general direction of the enemy)"
 
Shens said:
That player would be dead.
Click to expand...

No actually, players in DOD don't flap their arms like that, AND he'd probably be shooting back in the mean time. It takes a long time to empty a clip, you don't know if the ones that hit him where near the end.
 
I love realism in games.

I hate cone of fire.

I prefer dod:s myself though. In dod:s if you take your time one shot from any gun kills anything. I'm in complete control the first one or two shots, and recoil is no problem for me. This is escpecially true for the rifles ( which is all I use ) unless you are jumping around and throwing your mouse over the room chances are the bullet will hit what your aiming at.

In cs:s I can get those same two shots off before the cone of fire kicks in and takes over but thats just not enough. If your not using an awp or some other "cheap" weapon, one well placed shot isnt going to do anything. Then I have to sit and wait for my team ( which is most likely filled with retards ) to either die or more unlikely complete the objective. This is much more frustrating than anything in dod:s. You screw up there and your back in the action in about 10 seconds.

I like my shots to hit where my gun is pointing , but UT and Quake don't do anything for me. Smashing the spacebar and clickling randomly was fun way back then. I have even tried to go back and play quake...but its just not fun.
 
TheSomeone said:
No actually, players in DOD don't flap their arms like that, AND he'd probably be shooting back in the mean time. It takes a long time to empty a clip, you don't know if the ones that hit him where near the end.
Click to expand...

The cone of fire for the weapons in DoD:S are too big and I agree with that. So what am I arguing against you for? I personally would like to see them back to around 1.3 levels.
 
play serious sam, or any of the evil dead games. No team play... and u got some kick ass heroes..

WHEN IS DUKE COMING BACK!? lol

PEACE

Mike:smoking:
 
I think most game companies are focusing on the actual graphics and not the actual gameplay. Completely leaving people like me behind who's systems are not as "UB3RLY 1337 NUBLOLFBITOOKMYBABY"

EDIT: Even though that has nothing to do with this... lol

Anyway, some games go too far with recoil but others (DoD:S, for example) are just games that you need to get used to.
 
Shens said:
The cone of fire for the weapons in DoD:S are too big and I agree with that. So what am I arguing against you for? I personally would like to see them back to around 1.3 levels.
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Hahahha, good question, because we're totally on the same page.
 
Awww. When I read the thread title I thought this was about the good old days of gaming in general rather than about teamplay and gun accuracy. I was gonna rant about graphics whores and the decline in co-op gameplay :p

I want my guns to be realistic so I like cones of fire. I like games that are left up to skill rather than who gets lucky while spraying or who starts spraying first.
 
AmishSlayer said:
I want my guns to be realistic so I like cones of fire. I like games that are left up to skill rather than who gets lucky while spraying or who starts spraying first.
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Er? Did you just contradict yourself?

You like cone of fire but you don't like games where other people get lucky?

OMG CONFUZZLED
 
bam23 said:
Er? Did you just contradict yourself?

You like cone of fire but you don't like games where other people get lucky?

OMG CONFUZZLED
Click to expand...

Well I want cones of fire to be inaccurate enough so when people spray there's not such a good chance of getting headshots. Sure when you spray there should be a small chance of getting that lethal headshot but it seems to be too high if you ask me. The number of headshots that come in CS nowadays is unreal. Months ago when I still played I got beat by way too many AK47 sprayers from long range when I'm taking controlled bursts.

When I say "whoever starts spraying first" I'm mainly talking about Halo 2. I liked the skill it took to kill efficiently with the pistol and sniper rifle in Halo 1 and HATE how all players do is spray their dual whatevers in Halo 2 and rack up the kills. When I realized that Bungie took all the skill out of Halo 2's MP I dropped it and never picked it up again. It's noobification that pisses me off.
 
Hum, you can't really spray without a cone of fire. If you get a headshot it means you aimed for the head. Cone of fire means you probably won't get a headshot if you aim for the head, but you very well might if you aim next to it.
 
Tribes 1 and 2 were the best multiplayer experiences I've ever had. Tribes 3 sucked major donkey balls though.
 
TheSomeone said:
Hum, you can't really spray without a cone of fire. If you get a headshot it means you aimed for the head. Cone of fire means you probably won't get a headshot if you aim for the head, but you very well might if you aim next to it.
Click to expand...

Halo 2 doesn't really have a cone of fire and all you do is spray full auto with smg's and plasma rifles.

You should get a headshot with your first bullet but if you're just spraying full auto while moving, you shouldn't...
 
If the cone of fire is too large, you really don't have a choice to spray or not, you just do. There's a difference between cone of fire and recoil, are you sure you're not mixing them up?
 
TheSomeone said:
If the cone of fire is too large, you really don't have a choice to spray or not, you just do. There's a difference between cone of fire and recoil, are you sure you're not mixing them up?
Click to expand...

Well if the cone of fire is too large then you don't really have a choice. I'm talking recoil and cones of fire mixed.

Let's clarify this:

When you're running in CS for example and you fire some shots it's not gonna be accurate. I call that a cone of fire because even your first bullet will be inaccurate. When you're crouching standing still with an M4 your first bullet will pretty much be right on target (not to a pinpoint maybe but the cone of fire will be so tiny it doesn't even matter for short-medium range).

Halo 2 doesn't really have a changing cone of fire like CS. The cone of fire is different for each weapon but it doesn't expand or contract based on your firing position or if you've fired shots. The only factor here is recoil (just moves your guns straight up) which is very easy to counteract.

So you want bullets to go to the exact point where your crosshairs are pointing even on SMG's?
 
No, I just want them closer in my crosshair.

It actually happened once in DOD. This guy was AFK, I had a Kar98k, supposedly the most accurate weapon. I shot at him, straight in his chest, it missed. I got closer in and shot again. Got still closer in (I was about 20 feet away) and still missed because I didn't take the time to come to a complete stop before shooting. The guy was litterally taking up half my screen, he wasn't moving, the crosshair was right on top of him, there's no way my aim was off.

I think excessively large cones of fire is propitious to no one. And yeah I just said that to practice my vocab.

propitious
 
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