Reviewer blames HL2 of "not showing their bad features in E3"

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[digsy]

Show me one developer who finds it a good idea to show all the bad features in their game for promos.

"Well this bug here is quite major actually, in fact it causes the framerate to slow down to a crawl and makes the game unplayable... Any questions?"

 

[PvtRyan]

This guy should be put in front of a.... firingsquad *ba-da-bum ksssshing*

(now you guys go ha-ha-ha)

 

[A.I.]

Now, what dev on earth would be crazy enough to show off with the bad features of his game?

 

[SMT]

The crane and box effect is scripted.

Gabe/doug/rick.... said last year that when a large object falls due to the player the AI is hinted to run under it to create the cinematic hollywood death scene.

Of course that was in reference to last years E3 and the traptown video but i belive from this years video the AI still recieves hints to die.

Interesting. Quote, please?

 

[CrazyHarij]

OMGJESUSCHRIST

This is the most stupid thing I have ever read.

 

[Brian Damage]

The crane and box effect is scripted.

Gabe/doug/rick.... said last year that when a large object falls due to the player the AI is hinted to run under it to create the cinematic hollywood death scene.

Of course that was in reference to last years E3 and the traptown video but i belive from this years video the AI still recieves hints to die.

I disagree. That would take the fun out of properly timing your attempts to kill them.

I think it was only in reference to that year's Traptown demo, which was a demonstration of the physics, so of course they'd want to hint the combine in that to stand in the right places.

This year's demos were mostly gameplay, not features. Though, "Ravensholm" was kind of both :E.

 

[tkato]

nuuuuuu he is stupid... in the huge 600 mg video from last year E3 in th strider fight scene when he picks the letters from the bank the you can hear the ppl in the crowd telling him what to pick, that means somebody was playing the game and it did run in E3 Video.
and sence when devs tell ppl thier games suck? i coud prevent alot of stupid games i bought if they did, sadly they don`t.

a very stupid man indeed.

 

[SMT]

nuuuuuu he is stupid... in the huge 600 mg video from last year E3 in th strider fight scene when he picks the letters from the bank the you can hear the ppl in the crowd telling him what to pick, that means somebody was playing the game and it did run in E3 Video. a very stupid man indeed.

Um, not exactly. Some bright person saw the orders of the letters being picked, after they were picked(thus the satisfied "FU!" followed by nerdy laughter). That's quite different than what you suggest. Last year's E3 demos were captured before the event, same as this year.

 

[ScopeD]

The guy has a point, the same I'm having hard time swallowing. The buggy crashes the fence everytime etc.. But Valve is currently going beta with the game so everything is still possible though. I'm looking forward to playing this game.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Where else could they run to? The warehouse door opens onto that platform. And even if the positioning of the Combine was deliberate, so what? That's what Level Design is all about.



Why is everyone holding Unreal 3.0's engine technology as some kind of new Messiah? The hardware to run it properly won't be around until 2005/2006, by which time every other engine developer will have exactly the same features. It's just an evolution of current technology, not a giant revolutionary step.

Yeah and the Game itself won't be until 2006 either. So it's not really something to speak about, especially given that Source seems to be something like "XNA", as in a engine for current and future games.

Cause you could enhance the engines in so many ways, but sound and maps stay the same. So new technology could easily be implented on a current game. I even think it will go so far you just download a source engine, then it injects the gamefiles into it and run whatever game you want.

And also who cares if it's scripted or it's on purpose it looks like that? It's kinda the whole point. HL2 adapts you, you don't adapt HL2. And that's the beauty about the game.

The fact that you can do so much to make it look like several movies, one where you act good, another where you act evil, another where you're just trying to survive.

I think that tiny demos and etc. will be popular since all the stuff you can do.

Also If the AI is told to run under falling object it doesn't make it scripted it's just an AI hint. Like all other hints the AI is built upon.

Could actually be cool if you could modify your own enemy AI. To a certain degree of course, i'm actually gonna ask about that

 

[Sparta]

The guy has a point, the same I'm having hard time swallowing. The buggy crashes the fence everytime etc.. But Valve is currently going beta with the game so everything is still possible though. I'm looking forward to playing this game.

Yeah it happens everytime....which would be once

 

[tkato]

Um, not exactly. Some bright person saw the orders of the letters being picked, after they were picked(thus the satisfied "FU!" followed by nerdy laughter). That's quite different than what you suggest. Last year's E3 demos were captured before the event, same as this year.

I remmber someone screamed "TAKE THE U"

 

[SMT]

I remmber someone screamed "TAKE THE U"

In different videos, different conference goers yelled different things. They all thought they were terribly clever, but they were all watching the same gameplay demo. Just chalk it up to synchronicity.

 

[tkato]

know what even if so... ill give anything in the world to just take one strider down.

 

[SMT]

I completely agree. Why won't the damn things just die?

 

[clarky003]

if some people think that parts of the new vids where scripted , in the action sequences, id have to say thats highly unlikely.. the two strider video's prove that, different stuff happens the second time, the striders move about differently,, they probably got a dozen testers recorded all their play on each different section, sorted through the vids, and picked the best one to show.

 

[Dead-Inside]

I know one guy who will unload all his weaponary at a strider *Looks at self*

You know, they can't take THAT much of a beating, even though I think the trick is to use the environment around to (Think powerlines).

 

[Naveed]

Honestly, whole demo can be 100% scripted like previous year E3 demo, who knows? People who are claiming that this demo is not scripted, how they know? Did Valve tell them? Did they see the source code? When did Valve admit during last year E3 that demo was scripted, it was revelaed because of source hack, so there are even chances are that this demo is scripted or not, and given Valve's reputation from last year people find it difficult to believe that it is not.

 

[Tork]

nuuuuuu he is stupid... in the huge 600 mg video from last year E3 in th strider fight scene when he picks the letters from the bank the you can hear the ppl in the crowd telling him what to pick, that means somebody was playing the game and it did run in E3 Video.
and sence when devs tell ppl thier games suck? i coud prevent alot of stupid games i bought if they did, sadly they don`t.

a very stupid man indeed.

only the letters F and U could be picked up, the rest of the letters you cant grab them with the manipulator (SP?) in the demo.

 

[Kyorisu]

Frankly the reviewer is an idot. ALL games need scripted sequences, To tell the story and have fun gameplay.

And the thing about the wall, what kind of wall was it? and if you could break all walls like in Red Faction it'd ruin some parts of the game.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Some Hl2 fans got sucked into the abyss when the delay/s happened... as addicted as they were they turned to hate, disgust and seeked some form of vengeance on valve... it could be them screaming " I wnt bye j00r geme!!!" or writing articles like this one.

you can always tell straight away when it is just someone bitching because they wish they had the game now.

 

[DjBourgeoisie]

Sounds like fragmaster to me

 

[McWarren]

My god, it's been absolutely ages since I last posted here. But I felt compelled to so something after seeing this mentalist posting 'news' on a site like firing squad. Here's what I had to say to him:

Hi there. I just wanted to drop you a line in reply to your 'review' of Half-Life 2 at E3 2004. It has to be one of the worst pieces of reporting I've ever seen.

You complain that the footage seen was scripted, and that Valve were only showing off the good features of Source.

Source, by the way, is the engine powering Half-Life 2. I'm telling you that because it's quite clear you did no research on the game before you slagged it off.

The demos shown at E3 were the highlights of beta testers being recorded. Valve has also said on more than one occasion, that Source does NOT support deformable buildings - I'd like to know if you're still smoking that crack from your Amiga days.

Granted, an interactive, playable demo would be nice for the major HL fans, but I've watched enough retarded kids in video game shops trying to play the x-boxes to know that it's generally a bad idea.

I look forward to the day when 'news' is news, and 'opinions' are kept to oneself.

 

[clarky003]

well it cant all possibly be scripted or it just wouldnt work like it does in those new strider vids,, besides thats pretty dumb if it is, Valve said its gameplay from the game, and if you notice the striders seem to randomly pick targets depending on whos creating the most attention, sure looks like AI to me.

 

[Kyorisu]

The AI for HL2 is very impresive. It was said in some interview that if the player was behind a locked door a mosnter might then try breaking a window to get in. Then things like the monster climbing through the window could also be the ai.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

The AI for HL2 is very impresive. It was said in some interview that if the player was behind a locked door a mosnter might then try breaking a window to get in. Then things like the monster climbing through the window could also be the ai.

you are refering to that one article waaay back when HL2 was first shown depicting the giant cyborg thingy with the third arm and tentacle eye that when Gordon ran away from it, closed a door behind him and hid in the corner, it smashed the window and sent it's tentacle in after him to look for Gordon.

but, they said that was scripted.. see its Reactive AI, when the AI senses it can do something cool, it will usually decide to do it.

say for instance, the cyborg has like 10 scripted sequences that depend on the situation in a certain scene, he may smash down a door, or climb up a ladder or whatever the situation calls for (dependant on Gordon's actions)
so that scene where the cyborg looked for gordon in the room was just one of many he could have chosen to do.

Gabe also said AI should be able to find new ways to get to you, they wont just sit around letting them shoot at you if all you did was climb a ladder, now they should follow you up, and continue pursuit.
or if you crawn in a vent, the ai will try and flush you out with grenades, or even crawl in after you.

or at least thats what I was lead to believe from interviews and e-mails.

 

[J Hater]

there are a few points where the reviewer is right but the rest he is kinda wako

oh and about the building damage i kinda agree with him i think that the buggy wouldn't make any damage

 

[Lobster]

They can work out alot of stuff automaticly, like wether somthing is a physics object, and it can also see doors, breakable glass etc, for more complex stuff involving destructable terrain, complex doors, switches, ladders etc, hint nodes would be placed at each of them, and for the really impressive stuff they would have a series of scripted sequences that trigger depending on how the enemy interacts with the object, Which is the whole point of contextual ai.

Then ontop of that things like conducting searches of an area, squad tactics, using cover, etc etc, is all preworked into the AI, and requires no scripting, from playing the beta, i can tell you all this stuff is working as it should, the E3 maps had scripted moments to show them off (thats last year), but then so does practicly every game trailer.

Some of the stuff that guys moaning about is really odd, things he believes arnt real could be done in HL1, i mean we know the maps arnt fully desctructable, but there alot more interactive than other games, ... its really strange for the media to write such opinionated stuff based on previews, usually they save that till they see the final game.

 

[Rico]

J Hater: Of course the buggy wouldn't make any damage, there are several reasons for that.

1) On the logical side of things, I find it hard to believe a buggy such as the one in HL2 would cause damage to a building made out of concrete.

2) We all know that HL2 will not have a fully destructible environment and never has Valve even said it would. In fact, they have gone out of their way to say that HL2 will NOT have fully destructible environments.

3) It's a video, for all we know the house WOULD have reacted but they simply didn't show it. This is highly unlikely but it would still be a possibility which should have been analysed by the reviewer.

 

[Apos]

The buggy crashes the fence everytime etc..

Man, yeah. I mean, everytime you watch your favorite Care Bears episode, the same darn stuff happens!!! What the heck!

 

[3d Animator]

Well of course Valve is going to want to show off the coolest parts of their game. That is the purpose of E3. What is he talking about with limits? Honestly, anyone that thought every single object in the game would be breakable was just kidding themselves. Let's be realistic. Valve has said that they give hints to their AI. So yeah, whoever designed the strider fight scene level probably hinted to the striders that it would be pretty cool if they took a shot at those pillars and destroyed them, and yes, if the player had crashed his buggy into the concrete building I highly doubt it would have broken, so what? I mean, that combine soldier was just screaming to be hit, I would of smashed him as well, and I'm sure that's what Valve had in mind when they placed him in front of a wooden fence. They probably thought "Well, the player is going to be speeding down the road at 80MPH, let's put some guys in front of him so he can run some baddies down. Better yet, why not put a wooden fence behind one of them so that when he's hit he'll go crashing through! That'd be pretty cool!". They design these scenarios with cool gameplay in mind. Why do people get so worked up? So the AI doesn't take care of every single thing on it's own and the level designers can place hints in their levels. Valve openly admits to giving the AI hints. They do that because it allows for cool gameplay, and that's the whole damn point. Who cares how it's done, look at the end result! Certainly one cannot dispute the fact that those were in engine videos of gameplay scenarios.

you are totally right! if people had the chance to play on a game with no hits for the AI , the probabilities of interensting and "cool" things happening to the player will be close to none, couse thats how reality is no?
if you want that the player experience the maximum amount of cool stuff the first time they play the game, you have only one way to go as a game designer,
put situations and sets all over the game that scream "do something cool with me!" so the player feels like living in a james bond movie, with interesting stuff hapening all the time, instead of once or twice a week, like in real life.

its just a game! its suposed to be fun!

 

[AJM2K3]

It's funny how he comments that Valve showed the game in a way that would conceal all of its flaws, yet as soon as the videos were released we had people complaining on these boards about inconsistencies etc...

 

[Mountain Man]

FiringSquad is just a bunch of cynics trying to pass themselves off as gamers. Is this guy really bitching that Valve didn't go out of their way to make the game look bad? Please. It's fashionable right now to feign apathy when it comes to Half-Life 2, but don't worry, that'll pass as soon as the game is released.

 

[Ownzed]

Does anyone see other games put bad features in their videos? Exactly.

 

[Polykarbon]

As a programmer and developer, some of you disgust me with how little you know about AI/Level design and routine/logic.

Have you ever thought that maybe they recorded SEVERAL demos before they got ones that looked great?

OMG the crane scene was scripted? No, it really wasn't. The Combine recieve hints that a crane is being used[they can hear it], and so they use a routine logic to decide to go out and check it out or not. Sure they will recieve hints that tell them to open the door and look for you and shoot you. Where else would they be standing to get a clear shot at you? Besides, it's not like the player can MOVE the crane or anything. If you don't believe me, watch the strider section and notice the amazing squad logic used. They back each other with fire and work together. Oh I guess that was scripted too. Not to mention that the stolen build backs this.

Do some of you think that Half-Life 2 is too good to be true or something? It has been in development since the end of HL1. The programmers at Valve arn't 12 year olds with VB experience...

Actually, the entire game is scripted. For that matter, every game is entirely scripted. When you throw woot at a combine, the developers put that there, because they KNEW YOU WOULD pick it up. Bastards, they scripted it!

/sarcasm.

A lot of you need to grow up and understand that Valve isn't out to get you. They arn't scripting things on purpose, just to show you how bad ass they are. This was part of the reason for the 2 strider scenes. People kept bitching at them last year for "scripting everything" when in fact they didn't. Now they show you proof and you spit in their face. Kind of funny, considernig how you will all be "OMG THIS GAME RULEZ" when it is released.

 

[Mountain Man]

dont be an freaking idiot! you think they recorded all the playtesters footage at every moment they were playing, your even more stupid then most fanboys

Who said they recorded every moment while they were playing? Imagine this scenario:

A month before E3, Gabe Newell calls all Valve employees to the conference room.

"Hey, guys, we have the Electronic Entertainment Expo coming up in a few weeks and we need some new demo movies. So while you're playtesting the game, go ahead and record a few of your play sessions and submit them to the head office. We'll go through them and pick the best ones for E3."

Doesn't sound terribly implausible, now does it?

 

[Mountain Man]

but, they said that was scripted.. see its Reactive AI, when the AI senses it can do something cool, it will usually decide to do it.

That's not reactive AI, that's just good ol' fashioned AI. You could call AI "intelligent scripting" but that's kind of missing the point.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Got an answer from Rick Ellis, they're not going to include some kind of customizeable AI hints into the game interface itself.

However you could make a mod where you could alter that. I think it would be cool if someone made a mod for Half-Life 2(Maybe even Half-Life 1 and OpFor if it's supported) where you can set the actions for ai hints.

 

[wonkers]

The reviewer picked a soft angle and forced F**ked it. What he says is sort of true but people from IGN & Gamespy have played 3 levels of HL2. They like the game and think it's pretty good.

You people are way too easy to whip into a frenzy. The game is fine and the developers don't want to give away all the good parts.

The E3 demo was half assed though.