Rising sea levels claim first inhabited Island

Everyone! Get to your nearest beach and start drinking as fast as you can!
 
theotherguy said:
:(

This is precisely why we need to start acting now.
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Seems it is too late. We can't reverse time. And because of our new lifestyles, all we can do is ct down what causes this a little.

GREAT BRITAIN ARE DOOMED. Damn this British island.
 
Wow i cant believe you all blindly accept global warming. It doesn't exist, but standards to say that it is real would also make global cooling real, based on ones definition.
 
W4E said:
Wow i cant believe you all blindly accept global warming. It doesn't exist, but standards to say that it is real would also make global cooling real, based on ones definition.
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Its obvious the planet is warming. Most know it would naturally, and is over due to warm. But we do increase the speed of the warming. Won't matter in the long run.

At the end of the day, all we're here to do is reproduce and adapt. And that is what we do.
 
Why is it obvious? Ice caps melting !! :O not asif they have been doing that since the begining of ice.

Also, the planet is 2 degrees (IIRC) cooler than in 1850's. And its since that time that everything has apparently caused the planet to warm.
 
W4E said:
Why is it obvious? Ice caps melting !! :O not asif they have been doing that since the begining of ice.

Also, the planet is 2 degrees (IIRC) cooler than in 1850's. And its since that time that everything has apparently caused the planet to warm.
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Well then time will tell.
 
Icarusintel said:
And what do you propose?

Because talking about action and having a plan of action are two very different things, and only one of them is actually useful.
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All of these:
1) Improve automobile efficency by %80 using hybrids and weight management, and sacrificing horsepower by 2050.
2) Sequester carbon from powerplants underground, at %100 efficency by 2050.
3) Establish a carbon tax and carbon credit exchange.
4) Increase use of Solar, Wind and Nuclear power by a factor of five by 2050.
5) build no more coal power plants
6) Develop a hydrogen-electricity SuperGrid by 2050
7) Convert at least %50 of all vehicles to hydrogen by 2050
8) Establish a methane tax and methane exchange, sequester methane from cow pastures using large tents (already being done), also remove methane from landfills using large tents
9) Extract CO2 directly from the air and sequester it undergound (it is possible)

After all of this, carbon emissions will stabilize at 500ppm by 2050. Even after that, temperature will continue to rise by a factor of 0.02 degrees per year. (its about .06 now)

Then, between 2050 and 2100, we will need to reduce carbon emmissions, not just stabilize them, by doing each of those steps further.


It is all technically possible, it just costs tons and tons of money. Each step will take up a good 1% of the global GDP each year. However, if we do absolutley nothing, we will spend much much more dealing with the effects of global warming, like rising sea levels, increased extremity of weather, crop failures, bigger fires, increased extremity of winter in europe and mass extinctions all over the world.
 
W4E said:
Why is it obvious? Ice caps melting !! :O not asif they have been doing that since the begining of ice.

Also, the planet is 2 degrees (IIRC) cooler than in 1850's. And its since that time that everything has apparently caused the planet to warm.
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Not even remotely close to being true, temperatures are at least 0.6 degrees C warmer than in the 1850's.




And its not the ice caps melting in regular, seasonal changes, its the ice caps melting at an extreme rate that could only be caused by massive climate change. Remember, the difference between an ice age and a period of warmth on Earth is historically only 4 degrees C globally and 8 degrees C at the poles.
 
I say we should annex the himalayas and the surrounding highlands.
 
W4E said:
Wow i cant believe you all blindly accept global warming. It doesn't exist, but standards to say that it is real would also make global cooling real, based on ones definition.
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The climate is changing, it's the question of whether or not its anthropogenic.
 
theotherguy said:
This is precisely why we need to start acting now.
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This is precisely why we needed to start acting 30 years ago. :(

(Or 20, or 10, hell, even 5. There's a good chance that plenty of global warming's effects are going to happen in short time, whether we do anything or not at this point. Oh well, my home is on high land :) )

W4E said:
Wow i cant believe you all blindly accept global warming. It doesn't exist, but standards to say that it is real would also make global cooling real, based on ones definition.
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First, before anything, you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that

A) You can't believe we blindly accept global warming
B) Global warming does not exist
C) Standards to say that global warming is real would make global cooling real

A is one's own opinion, and would be completely valid as an opinion except that most of us don't blindly accept it - we accept it because there are islands vanishing, and if we were blind we wouldn't be able to see them vanish.

C is a bit more odd, as it contradicts A and has in it an incorrect assumption. As I'll explain below, global warming doesn't need "standards" to make it real.

However, B and C put together are completely contradictory. You can't eat your cake and still have it (well, you can, but that gets messy). If global warming caused by greenhouse gasses is not real, then regulating greenhouse gasses cannot possibly make global cooling real!!

So make up your mind. In the meantime, I'll just go ahead and say you picked B.

---
Regarding Global-warming-existing-or-not:

Haven't we already had this discussion about global warming? I'm sure it was somewhere on the forums...

Oh well, since I'm lazy I'll just quote from Wikipedia and some reputable science sources, and carry on with common sense:

First, what is Global warming? Wikipedia says that
Global warming is the observed increase in the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere and oceans in recent decades. The Earth's average near-surface atmospheric temperature rose 0.6 ? 0.2 ?Celsius (1.1 ? 0.4 ?Fahrenheit) in the 20th century.
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Bingo, we've hit upon our first key insight into global warming, the fact that the globe is warming! But why? Greenhouse gasses!

But rather than go on and on (I'll do that later), let's break global warming down into 3 easy postulates:

Postulate 1: The globe is warming.

Postulate 2: The globe is warming most likely because of greenhouse gasses. (Or, rather, greenhouse gasses cause the Earth to get/be warm (This is, in fact, why the Earth is habitable in the first place))

Postulate 3: Humans are emiting a large effective amount of greenhouse gasses.

Conclusion: Human activity is greatly aiding in a very large global temperature rise.

---

In order for your (completely unfounded and un-backed-up and laughable (more on this 2 paragraphs down)) claim that "global warming doesn't exist" (paraphrasing) to hold true, you must provide some factual basis.

However, you haven't, which is not aiding your argument at all. But although the burdon of proof lies with you to prove global warming does not exist, I will refute it nonetheless.

Your claim that "global warming does not exist" is completely preposterous, because if global warming in fact (not just in your head) did not exist, the Earth would be uninhabitable:
Adding carbon dioxide (CO2) or methane (CH4) to Earth's atmosphere, with no other changes, will make the planet's surface warmer; greenhouse gases create a natural greenhouse effect without which temperatures on Earth would be an estimated 30 ?C (54 ?F) lower, and the Earth uninhabitable. It is therefore not correct to say that there is a debate between those who "believe in" and "oppose" the theory that adding carbon dioxide or methane to the Earth's atmosphere will, absent any mitigating actions or effects, result in warmer surface temperatures on Earth.
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Source
The phenomenon of the globe actually warming (global warming) is neccecary for you to be there at a computer and keyboard typing away. Were it not for global warming, your protoplasm ancestors may not have made it past the larger multi-cellular stages of evolution, because it would be too fricken' cold.


But please, DO back your claim up with some facts. Prove that any one of my postulates are not true (with facts, please), or that the conclusion is invalid, or be forced to accept that the Earth is warming because of greenhouse gasses and humans are contributing significantly.

After all, we're all here for some hearty discussion aren't we?


ComradeBadger said:
Interesting reading:

http://friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
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Here's a much more interesting watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fcezh2-jO8
 
Interesting reading:

http://friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
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Interesting read, but I've heard the exact opposite from some report's and scientist's so to be quite honest I'm inbetween on exactley what to think, and on the other hand we are seeing more severe hurricanes and this island subdued by sea level rises.

So I can't really quite see where that article is coming from taking the definate stance of every critical point being a myth and explaining why in a few paragraphs. The arguement is neither here nor there in the case that we are most likely adding to the warming, and denial of that doesn't stop the ice caps from melting.
 
W4E said:
You really trust that source? It says "Little ice age" on the graph.. please.

Also the site name has "global warming" in it, maybe they wont be completely honest?
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Little Ice Age is the generally accepted name. You never heard of it?
 
Global warming is anthropogenic. There is no doubt about it and whoever questions it is out to disinform.
 
To anyone who thinks global warming isn't really happening:

There are one of two ways this can go down. You can either

A. Realize it is in fact a problem and do start doing something, anything. No matter how small it is, it helps.
B. Have a giant global disaster in which the goverments start enforcing strict laws, making you help out anyway.

Your choice...
 
Around here everything is getting hotter. Winter is not winter anymore around here. No snow, theres nothing. I can walk outside in a T-shirt and shorts. It seems more like august then december. Theres been a massive change in climate and i've noticed it around here, in fact I don't know who hasn't.

Global Warming is happening to some degree. Theres no doubt.
 
but does the cost of lost islands really offset the benefits of fast transportation and global industry? I would have to say not.
 
Whether global warming "exists" or not should not be the deciding factor in whether actions to preserve the environment should be taken. That should already be a given.
 
Dan said:
but does the cost of lost islands really offset the benefits of fast transportation and global industry? I would have to say not.
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Lost islands is a symptom. That's like saying "does having lumps in one's organ really offset the benefits of not spending millions on a cure for cancer?"
 
clarky003 said:
Interesting read, but I've heard the exact opposite from some report's and scientist's so to be quite honest I'm inbetween on exactley what to think, and on the other hand we are seeing more severe hurricanes and this island subdued by sea level rises.

So I can't really quite see where that article is coming from taking the definate stance of every critical point being a myth and explaining why in a few paragraphs. The arguement is neither here nor there in the case that we are most likely adding to the warming, and denial of that doesn't stop the ice caps from melting.
Click to expand...
That's the good thing about science, it's always open to debate, however, the idea of antroprogenic global warming is widely considered fact - which is plain wrong.

The idea has also become politicized, to the point where people can use it as a concept for political gain, and to slander their opponants.
 
Of course clarky it's actually just the scalar waves.
 
Haha, stupid island people, living below sea level, how silly.

...

* PvtRyan realizes that he lives 5m below sealevel D:
 
Meh. there's too many indians anyway.

Seriously though, global warming does exist. I'm sceptical as to whether we're really destroying the planet with the greenhouse gasses. I'm relatively convinced the changes in temperature are due to natural shifts, perhaps not helped by human activity. But I do think these changes have been going on across the globe naturally over the past quaternary and even holocene, it's just there wasn't the mass media to spread the news and less people living on the coast.
I don't think stopping emissions is going to suddenly make the earth as it has been in the last 30 years the same, things always change.
 
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

An increase in global temperatures can in turn cause other changes, including a rising sea level and changes in the amount and pattern of precipitation. These changes may increase the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events, such as floods, droughts, heat waves, hurricanes, and tornados. Other consequences include higher or lower agricultural yields, glacial retreat, reduced summer stream flows, species extinctions and increases in the ranges of disease vectors. Warming is expected to affect the number and magnitude of these events; however, it is difficult to connect particular events to global warming. Although most studies focus on the period up to 2100, warming (and sea level rise due to thermal expansion) is expected to continue past then, since CO2 has an estimated atmospheric lifetime of 50 to 200 years.

So even if we stop now, even if we stop ALL emmisions right now, and never use fossile fuels for 50 to 200 years we may not even see the change in Global Warming in our lifetime (if it is, in fact, our fault) ... and if it IS natural... =\
 
no pictures=didnt happen

no just playing. Well thats nothing compared whats awaiting us... *COUGHT FLORIDA COOOUUUGHT*
 
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