Risk aversion

[repiV]

Why is it that, in the last two decades or so, our society is so utterly obsessed by absolute safety, both physical and otherwise?

We now live in a time when:

- People are afraid to voice their opinions on subjects of vital importance to our very way of life for fear of causing offence to someone, somewhere
- In fact people are so paranoid of causing offence to various minority groups that they can unwittingly be offensively patronising towards them in the process.
- Enterpreneurial spirit, self-reliance and the destiny of one's own vision is a lost art. The ultimate aspiration of most today is to secure a comfortable and stable income fulfilling someone else's destiny in corporate servitude.
- Kids are no longer allowed to be kids - they must be kept inside and "safe", or escorted between supervised areas within the confines of a car, at the expense of their social skills, proper development and their very mental health.
- We as a society embrace levels of government surveillance and control over our lives on a level that would have been absolutely unthinkable only a decade ago, all in the name of some negligble increase in security.
- Most recently, that would be communism masquerading as environmentalism. We can save you from the evil climate change menace, but first you must surrender your personal freedoms, your right to private transport, give over your money to repent for your sins and by the way, we'll need a big, authoritarian, global government to be able to save the planet. Do as we say, and not as we do.
- We willingly allow our roads to be entangled in regression and methods of oppression - blanketed by intrusive cameras and Hitleresque enforcement, all in the name of safety and the environment - yet this is a country with 32 million drivers, and a relatively insignificant 3000 people are killed in road accidents each year.
Your chances of suffering a serious injury in a traffic accident are almost non-existent, and yet the fear of this allows the authorities to restrict the use of the car - complete freedom of movement, in essence - push our journey times back into the stone age and have Orwellian levels of surveillance over our movements and dispense summary justice with a presumption of guilt for minor infractions. All an excuse, of course, to further government control and raise extra revenue. The freedom to travel about your business unhindered underpins all freedoms.
- Everyone is convinced that risk is a bad thing, to be avoided at all costs. Certainly our society thinks so, with its legions of health and safety parasites, scare-story alarmists and people who aspire to be nothing greater than a corporate shill with access to empty materialistic pleasures.

I was inspired to post about this after reading a poem calls Risks, by Janet Rand.

To laugh is to risk appearing the fool,
To weep is to risk being called sentimental.
To reach out to another is to risk involvement.
To expose feelings is to risk showing your true self.
To place your ideas and your dreams before the crowd is to risk being called naive.
To love is to risk not being loved in return,
To live is to risk dying,
To hope is to risk despair,
To try is to risk failure

But risks must be taken, because the greatest risk in life is to risk nothing.
The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing.
He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn, feel, change, grow or love.
Chained by his certitude, he is a slave; he has forfeited his freedom.
Only the person who risks is truly free.

If our society does not regain its spirit and its backbone, does not regain the ability to undertake a daring venture, or tell people to **** off and not walk all over us when appropriate, then we are heading only downwards.
So many people these days I think are just so ****ing pathetic. Empty lives, empty aspirations, get their kicks by living through the somewhat less mundane lives of others on reality TV...and when anyone else dares to break the mould, they must be kept in line. For their own good, of course.

The illusion of safety is the cancer of Western society.

 

[yakuruto]

Oh man, I love living in a not so industrially developed country's small city, here people is still people regardless of lacking some non-critical material commodities. Oh, and here kids are still kids.

 

[repiV]

Where do you live?

 

[theotherguy]

Blah blah blah, I'm a conservative troglodyte who likes racism and see nothing wrong with being a complete asshole to everyone, damnit!

This belongs in politics.

 

[repiV]

This belongs in politics.

Ah, such arrogance and naivete from one with such delusions of intellect. You sir, are a complete and utter fool.

 

[theotherguy]

- We willingly allow our roads to be entangled in regression and methods of oppression - blanketed by intrusive cameras and Hitleresque enforcement, all in the name of safety and the environment - yet this is a country with 32 million drivers, and a relatively insignificant 3000 people are killed in road accidents each year.
.

This is the funniest. Those may be the statistics in GB, but in the US annual deaths are usually about 43,000, and accidents involving moderate to serious injury total about 1.6 million per year in North America. In contrast, only about 16,000 people die from AIDS each year in the US.

Traffic deaths account for between 40 and 50 percent of annual accidental deaths in the United States. What are most of these deaths caused by? Driver error and improper following of regulations. If everyone wore their seat belts, and followed traffic laws at all times, traffic deaths would be significantly less common. If people were better educated in driving skill, there would also be significantly fewer accidents.

The rules are there for a reason: to protect the other drivers from you. You want to speed and ignore red lights and stop signs? Not on my roads. I don't want to be changing lanes on the highway as some dickwad on a motorcycle decides it would be a good idea to speed between lanes at 80 miles an hour. I don't want to pull out into an intersection and have a car collide with me because the idiot driver thinks he's too special to stop at the red light.

 

[repiV]

This is the funniest. Those may be the statistics in GB, but in the US annual deaths are usually about 43,000, and accidents involving moderate to serious injury total about 1.6 million per year in North America. In contrast, only about 16,000 people die from AIDS each year in the US.

It's no wonder, in most states in the US you can get a driver's license by completing a written test and driving around some cones.
What does that tell you about the merits of education vs enforcement of ill-conceived laws?

Traffic deaths account for between 40 and 50 percent of annual accidental deaths in the United States. What are most of these deaths caused by? Driver error and improper following of regulations. If everyone wore their seat belts, and followed traffic laws at all times, traffic deaths would be significantly less common. If people were better educated in driving skill, there would also be significantly fewer accidents.

The rules are there for a reason: to protect the other drivers from you. You want to speed and ignore red lights and stop signs? Not on my roads. I don't want to be changing lanes on the highway as some dickwad on a motorcycle decides it would be a good idea to speed between lanes at 80 miles an hour. I don't want to pull out into an intersection and have a car collide with me because the idiot driver thinks he's too special to stop at the red light.

Who said anything about ignoring red lights and stop signs?
The point is that we are moving increasingly towards a road network that is purposefully obstructed and congested, littered with draconian and ineffective surveillance and enforcement measures. Roads everywhere are having their already low speed limits dropped further, and then enforced by average-speed cameras along the whole route (which usually results in a 60+% increase in accidents, but the money rolls in and it looks like they're doing something, so who cares).
Blanket 20mph limit throughout London is next on the cards. Might as well travel by horse and cart.
The whole concept of speeding is a painfully, nay, dangerously simplistic label that appeals to people who don't have a clue about driving. No sign can tell you what the safe speed is for your abilities, in your vehicle, on that road, at that time, with those weather conditions, and current traffic conditions. If you think that it can, you're a dangerous liability on the road.
Traffic policy here is a full-scale assault on motoring, the motorist and private transport. It has nothing to do with road safety.

Anyway, you're subverting my point. Safety obsession/paranoia is superseding quality of life, experience within life, and, well, everything. Crushingly boring and conformist is modern society, and you know we're in trouble when most young males won't get on a motorcycle because it's "too dangerous". Jeez, live a little.

 

[Krynn72]

Ah, such arrogance and naivete from one with such delusions of intellect. You sir, are a complete and utter fool.

Hahah this fails. Ironic too, since you obviously tried to write a more "intelligent" sentence to make yourself seem smarter than him, and all it did was make you appear more of a douchebag.

 

[repiV]

Hahah this fails. Ironic too, since you obviously tried to write a more "intelligent" sentence to make yourself seem smarter than him, and all it did was make you appear more of a douchebag.

So what the **** is your point?
Both of you spineless, venemous bitches come in here all high and mighty, yet you don't even have a ****ing point to make. You just want to insult me for no reason whatsoever. Piss off and take your arrogant, conceited bullshit with you. Irritating little cock.

 

[Saturos]

At least poor driver's education and enforcment helps ensure that we won't be overpopulated that much less. :|

I don't want our family property to be overrun with a bunch of foolish neighbors/strangers in twenty years time tbh.

When I took my driver's exam about 6 years ago, I was made to actually drive through busy traffic. I guess requirements are different depending on the state. I heard in Germany, driver's are made to know even the basic mechanics of the automobile and have to actually attend classes and such.

Over here though, I swear I think that the way many people drive, you'd think that they got their licenses from a gumball machine.

They say the Germans take driving seriously and don't talk on a cellphone or listen to a radio even while driving. Whether or not that's a urban legend though...

 

[Krynn72]

My point was that i was laughing at you. I just thought you should know. The thread started off with promise, but then TheOtherGuy made a joke at your expense, then you came back like a little kid who had to insult him back, but comically made you look even worse than TheOtherGuy's joke made you out to be. This makes Krynn laugh. Your insults only make me lol harder. "Spineless, venomous little bitch"? Hahahahahahahaha oh lawdy lawd.

 

[repiV]

At least poor driver's education and enforcment helps ensure that we won't be overpopulated that much less. :|

I don't want our family property to be overrun with a bunch of foolish neighbors/strangers in twenty years time tbh.

When I took my driver's exam about 6 years ago, I was made to actually drive through busy traffic. I guess requirements are different depending on the state. I heard in Germany, driver's are made to know even the basic mechanics of the automobile and have to actually attend classes and such.

Over here though, I swear I think that the way many people drive, you'd think that they got their license from a gumball machine.

*shrug*

This thread was never about road safety anyway. What I find ironic is this:

Blah blah blah, I'm a conservative troglodyte who likes racism and see nothing wrong with being a complete asshole to everyone, damnit!

And...he's being a complete asshole. I've done nothing to warrant personal attacks against me. **** these immature teenage bastards with delusions of superiority they are unwilling to actually test by engaging in any kind of discussion.

 

[Kyorisu]

Anyway, you're subverting my point. Safety obsession/paranoia is superseding quality of life, experience within life, and, well, everything. Crushingly boring and conformist is modern society, and you know we're in trouble when most young males won't get on a motorcycle because it's "too dangerous". Jeez, live a little.

Just perhaps it is actually that dangerous? Do you for a second think people actually notice motorcyclists on the roads? Hell no. I wouldn't want any newbie motorcyclist on the road until they understood they have to be far more observant of vehicles near them. There were times when people drove carefully and considerately but those are long gone.

My point was that i was laughing at you.

That's fine.

I just thought you should know.

Now you're being a dick. theotherguy is no better by misquoting.

 

[repiV]

My point was that i was laughing at you. I just thought you should know. The thread started off with promise, but then TheOtherGuy made a joke at your expense, then you came back like a little kid who had to insult him back, but comically made you look even worse than TheOtherGuy's joke made you out to be. This makes Krynn laugh. Your insults only make me lol harder. "Spineless, venomous little bitch"? Hahahahahahahaha oh lawdy lawd.

Where was the joke?
It was a tired and uninteresting slant upon both my post and my personality, with a complete lack of any worthwhile commentary to boot. And then he follows up with a post which completely misses the point of the whole thread in the first place. Why the hell even bother trying to talk about anything around here?

I might as well just make a thread entitled "LOL BUTTSECHS".

 

[Krynn72]

Im pretty sure hit point was that he believes that what you described would result in a person who is a "troglodyte who likes racism and see nothing wrong with being a complete asshole to everyone."

Look! An engagement of discussion!


And the joke was when you responded to his slant on both your post and your personality. You made things so much worse for yourself by doing that which is what I found funny.

 

[repiV]

Just perhaps it is actually that dangerous? Do you for a second think people actually notice motorcyclists on the roads? Hell no. I wouldn't want any newbie motorcyclist on the road until they understood they have to be far more observant of vehicles near them.

Young males are supposed to be a bit reckless, damnit. It's part of the human spirit. If they have the mentality of a pipe-smoking accountant when they're 20, what can they possibly hope to achieve in later life?
In any case, newbie motorcyclists in the UK are left in no doubt as to these facts. The instructor spends two hours discussing safety with you until you even get to go near a bike. And then you don't get to take it on the road until you've met certain standards in the training area.
Point being, it signifies the mentality of society at large - 20 years ago, young people rode bikes. Nowadays, young bikers are rare - despite the fact that bikes make infinitely more sense as a method of transport nowadays. It's not about biking, it's about the mentality of society in general which happens to manifest itself in this instance.

 

[Kyorisu]

There's a reason I don't post around here often and this thread has shown it in full glory.

Say all you want about social change but the fact is the roads are in actual fact far more dangerous than before. There is more to it than people becoming scared of risks because those risks are greater than they used to be. I know of plenty of young riders anyway. Otherwise yes I agree with you.

 

[Saturos]

@ repiV: Just ignore the flamers. Many of these guys are probably hypocrites to be sure. Just like many people are nowadays. The mods give out infractions like cheap movie tickets around here and yet few catch stuff like this very often. I think they get a chubby watching others rip one another's lungs out and only intervene when it's something serious, like spam. /facepalm

Shame on you Krynn and theotherguy. Let repiV speak his mind, regardless of how idiotic you guys think his ideas are. That's just his point. At least he voices his opinion without fear of retribution, which is what so many are afraid to do nowadays. Even online where's it's relatively safe. :dozey:

On the other hand, Krynn and theotherguy were speaking their minds too though repiV. I don't talk controversial shit if I don't feel like being criticised. It's what having opinions is all about.

 

[repiV]

Im pretty sure hit point was that he believes that what you described would result in a person who is a "troglodyte who likes racism and see nothing wrong with being a complete asshole to everyone."

Look! An engagement of discussion!

No, I'm pretty sure that's his opinion of me. Which was no secret to begin with.

And the joke was when you responded to his slant on both your post and your personality. You made things so much worse for yourself by doing that which is what I found funny.

I don't really care...I'm not here to prove anything. I was hoping to have an interesting sociological discussion, not have my thread instantly derailed.

 

[Kyorisu]

What I mean is it's more than fair to be scared of something today if the risk is far higher than decades past. However there is a limit to the stupidity the governments of the world can get away with by cashing in on it all.

 

[yakuruto]

Hmm, from your aversion to speed limits and your arguments it's clear that you are a person who likes to drive fast and think that your driving skills are superb, being able to cope with every road situation. I know your kind well, my brother is one of your select group which I call "The Ayrton Sena Club"

Yup, speed limit and traffic signals are not flawless, nor are your common sense and self-judgment, but at least traffic laws set a standard of what to expect when driving... and if you're so good with the wheel you should have no problem sorting the obstacles that traffic laws represent to you, right?

Guess what, I didn't take any test to get my license, just bribed some big-shot at the traffic office and got it... after about 9 years of driving without a license... and haven't been involved in any accident so far.

Oh, and I live in a small city in northern Mexico, right in the border with Texas.

 

[Krynn72]

Shame on you Krynn and theotherguy. Let repiV speak his mind, regardless of how idiotic you guys think his ideas are. That's just his point. At least he voices his opinion without fear of retribution, which is what so many are afraid to do nowadays.

I was just amused because of how his first post was all "Speak your mind and who cares if you offend someone" and then TheOtherGuy spoke his mind and repriv's all like "OMG STFU YOU IDIOT AND NAIVE FOOL! STOP SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT ME EVEN IF THATS HOW YOU FEEL!"

Ive got nothing personal against you repriv, nor against your topic, I was just amused at how ironic your response was. I guess I should have kept my amusement to myself, but hey... hindsight's 20/20 right?

 

[repiV]

There's a reason I don't post around here often and this thread has shown it in full glory.

Say all you want about social change but the fact is the roads are in actual fact far more dangerous than before. There is more to it than people becoming scared of risks because those risks are greater than they used to be. I know of plenty of young riders anyway. Otherwise yes I agree with you.

Well no doubt things are different in our respective countries.
Road deaths in the UK in 2007 were just over 3000, with 600 of those being motorcyclists. I can't be arsed to find ancient stats, but in the 1970s I'm pretty sure total road deaths were over double that, and biker casualties were around the 900 mark, even with under half the amount of traffic we have now.
In the UK at least, the roads have never been safer. Although if you're arguing that the roads present a much more hazardous environment for riders, that's unquestionably true. But much better training, safer bikes, much improved tyres and better protective gear has more than made up for the discrepancy. People here actually wear their leathers, unlike in most countries. Which no doubt helps.
As for car crash protection - well, they're basically tanks...

@ repiV: Just ignore the flamers. Many of these guys are probably hypocrites to be sure. Just like many people are nowadays. The mods give out infractions like cheap movie tickets around here and yet few catch stuff like this very often. I think they get a chubby watching others rip one another's lungs out and only intervene when it's something serious, like spam. /facepalm

It'll probably be me who gets the infractions. :E

Shame on you Krynn and theotherguy. Let repiV speak his mind, regardless of how idiotic you guys think his ideas are. That's just his point. At least he voices his opinion without fear of retribution, which is what so many are afraid to do nowadays. Even online where's it's relatively safe. :dozey:

Thanks. Somebody gets it.

On the other hand, Krynn and theotherguy were speaking their minds too though repiV. I don't talk controversial shit anymore if I don't feel like being criticised. It's what having opinions is all about.

Naturally, people can say what they want, but I don't see how that excuses being a shithead. I didn't even say anything controversial, nor was this thread an attack on anybody.

 

[Kyorisu]

TheOtherGuy spoke his mind

Where I come from he insulted repiv.

and repriv's all like "OMG STFU YOU IDIOT AND NAIVE FOOL! STOP SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT ME EVEN IF THATS HOW YOU FEEL!"

Okay.

Ive got nothing personal against you repriv, nor against your topic, I was just amused at how ironic your response was. I guess I should have kept my amusement to myself, but hey... hindsight's 20/20 right?

Okay?

Seriously beginning to hate this place.

 

[repiV]

Hmm, from your aversion to speed limits and your arguments it's clear that you are a person who likes to drive fast and think that your driving skills are superb, being able to cope with every road situation. I know your kind well, my brother is one of your select group which I call "The Ayrton Sena Club"

I don't drive; I ride a motorbike.
Have you ever considered that the kind of person who likes to drive fast is also the same kind of person who takes pride in their driving, and doesn't just see it as a way of getting from A to B?
That the reason these people are the ones criticising road safety mechanisms is not because they are stupid or reckless, but simply because it's an issue they are concerned about where most drivers just want to get to their destination and don't really care?
Speed limits are designed with imbeciles in mind. It's no surprise that skilled drivers find them to be a menace.

Yup, speed limit and traffic signals are not flawless, nor are your common sense and self-judgment, but at least traffic laws set a standard of what to expect when driving... and if you're so good with the wheel you should have no problem sorting the obstacles that traffic laws represent to you, right?

I never claimed that mine or anyone else's common sense and judgement was flawless, or anything approaching it. But that judgement will always be better than a number on a sign - and all available evidence on the topic suggests that lower speed limits do not reduce accidents, and in many cases they can increase accidents. The German Autobahn is one of the safest motorway networks in the world, and they have no speed limit.

Guess what, I didn't take any test to get my license, just bribed some big-shot at the traffic office and got it... after about 9 years of driving without a license... and haven't been involved in any accident so far.

Congratulations.

Oh, and I live in a small city in northern Mexico, right in the border with Texas.

Nice change of pace, no doubt.

I was just amused because of how his first post was all "Speak your mind and who cares if you offend someone" and then TheOtherGuy spoke his mind and repriv's all like "OMG STFU YOU IDIOT AND NAIVE FOOL! STOP SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT ME EVEN IF THATS HOW YOU FEEL!"

And I spoke my mind right back, did I not?

Ive got nothing personal against you repriv, nor against your topic, I was just amused at how ironic your response was. I guess I should have kept my amusement to myself, but hey... hindsight's 20/20 right?

Oh, by all means, share your amusement. Just don't expect me to use my non-existent psychic abilities to pick up the sarcasm within your text. :E

 

[repiV]

What I mean is it's more than fair to be scared of something today if the risk is far higher than decades past. However there is a limit to the stupidity the governments of the world can get away with by cashing in on it all.

Don't get me wrong, I can fully appreciate people being scared of motorbikes. On an individual basis, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
The issue is that we have a society that as a whole is risk-averse to the point that it's having a negative impact on all society. Bravery isn't respected anymore, and we don't admire successful businesspeople, or soldiers - instead, we idolise worthless "celebrities" so-called because they embarrassed themselves on some shitty reality TV program.

And really, what are we, without a respect for bravery and the willingness to take risks and make tough decisions?
Without that human spirit, we'd still be living in caves. It's necessary for progress, and also for self-fulfilment and that feeling of being alive.

 

[Saturos]

Okay?

Seriously beginning to hate this place.

I can see your point too. Disscussions like this are not possible here without everyone sqabbling like a bunch of two years olds.

HL2.netters really should just stick to video games and other mundane off-topic stuff here imo.

Then again, there was a huge arguement (not "debate") not long ago over dragon shirts. DRAGON SHIRTS!. Goes to show that you guys can make a huge spectacle out of anything. It never ceases to amaze me. I guess that's why I'm still here. Having a "civilized debate" is next to impossible it seems. Nobody here can grasp the concept of "agreeing to disagree".

"OMFG! What did you say?! Your a f**ing idiot! LOL." It's really childish imo. :dozey: Let's act like we have some sense people. Just because it's the interwebz is no excuse to vent one another's terrible day on Mr. anonymous in London or the US.

 

[yakuruto]

Speed limits are designed with imbeciles in mind. It's no surprise that skilled drivers find them to be a menace.

Well, then you can rest assured that most drivers were considered when the laws were made. Even so, in-city laws are supposed to be made with pedestrians in mind.

I never claimed that mine or anyone else's common sense and judgement was flawless, or anything approaching it. But that judgement will always be better than a number on a sign - and all available evidence on the topic suggests that lower speed limits do not reduce accidents, and in many cases they can increase accidents. The German Autobahn is one of the safest motorway networks in the world, and they have no speed limit.

Yup, active factors like the driver's judgment are way more effective than a metallic plate with a number, but the number sets a reference for the drivers to judge and adjust their driving. If even skilled drivers have accidents with those little number there I wouldn't say they're so skilled. As for the Autobahn, it doesn't have the same traffic conditions as an average city street. You can't really think that in-city speed limits should be abolished, right?

 

[repiV]

Well, then you can rest assured that most drivers were considered when the laws were made. Even so, in-city laws are supposed to be made with pedestrians in mind.

The other major problem with speed limits is not a question of skill but of the act of driving itself.
Focusing on speed completely fails to take into account all the other factors that combine to cause a collision - attention being paid to the road, appropriate distance between vehicles, braking time...
It isn't free travelling speed that's the critical factor here, it's anticipating dangerous situations and avoiding them, and when all else fails, braking distance. Paying attention to the road has a far greater effect on braking distance than a few extra mph, yet the result of setting low speed limits is that people pay less attention to the road. This actually decreases people's ability to anticipate hazards and increases their braking distance, therefore increasing accidents.
It's a self-correcting force, if the traffic is slowed down people will just take more risks in other areas. It's not a simple matter of slower being safer - too slow is just as dangerous as too fast. And when you submerge drivers in all sorts of regulations, you essentially take the responsibility for their driving away from them and give it to the system - which again means they take less responsibility, and therefore have more accidents.

Yup, active factors like the driver's judgment are way more effective than a metallic plate with a number, but the number sets a reference for the drivers to judge and adjust their driving. If even skilled drivers have accidents with those little number there I wouldn't say they're so skilled. As for the Autobahn, it doesn't have the same traffic conditions as an average city street. You can't really think that in-city speed limits should be abolished, right?

I think they should be raised. Somewhere between 40-50mph would be fine, as opposed to the current 30. I would propose to abolish all rural/motorway speed limits.
If you want people to drive well, you give them the freedom to make their own choices and the training to make their decisions good ones. Then hold people accountable if they **** up.
The current system just persecutes good drivers, and bad drivers are overlooked.

 

[yakuruto]

True, speed is not the only factor, and appropriate distance between cars is crucial, but I disagree about slower driving increasing the risk of paying less attention to the road. Morons will be morons regardless of speed, just like serious drivers will be careful whether driving fast or slow.

I don't know how's the driving environment in your area, but here (in both sides of the border) about 90% of car and motorbike accidents are caused by speeding drivers.

EDIT:

Getting back on topic, the risk aversion can very well come from what Buddhists call "attachment". If you think your happiness lies in some material possession, certain persons or whatever you hold precious it's obvious that you'll be afraid of losing it. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about everything or anybody, just that you should focus on enjoying every moment of your life. I'm no Buddhist so I don't quite understand the deeper aspects of this philosophy.

 

[Krynn72]

I think its just that we only see the two extremes of the spectrum, thanks to our wonderful media outlets. We only ever see soccer moms gasping in collective horror when a violent video game comes out that their kids may/may not play. Or a whole race gets their panties in a jumble over a minor incident where someone judged another by their race. But the way media outlets portray this mindset is as the "better safe than sorry" idea. They essentially promote over protective behavior by reporting stories of both the awful side of life, and the retardedly over protective side. When we only see these two extremes, it limits our view on how to deal with things. Of course, nobody wants to live in the horrifying murder/rape/kidnapping side of the world, so people go to the only other side they've seen, which is the over-safe side. This is certainly the most prominent position we see on TV nowadays, and I think its fueled by the fact that the only other events that get on the news are the complete opposite. Stories about parents who dont watch their kids well enough, and the kids end up pregnant at 14 or who become rebellious to the point where they're naught but hooligans. These stories feed the soccer moms, which then makes the situation worse because then they get even more paranoid.


I think the media is the largest reason why we have such a paranoid state of affairs. Nowadays, unlike 20 years ago, we see all the horrible things that we do to each other on the morning news. The only news we ever see is bad news, and I think that it is causing more harm than most people realize.

Although, I dont think going out of your way to not offend people is such a bad thing. We need to mind our tongues and thoroughly think our ideas through so that nobody is discriminated against.

 

[yakuruto]

I guess most people take good things for granted are not really news-worthy (they wouldn't attract much audience), so we get mostly bad news and very few good ones.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I think the obbession with health and safety is too do with Sueing. Nowadays you can sue a company if you bang your head on they're land, even if they had nothing to do with it. Just look at that time when that old lady sued Mcdonalds because her coffee was hot.

 

[Raziaar]

Oh man, I love living in a not so industrially developed country's small city, here people is still people regardless of lacking some non-critical material commodities. Oh, and here kids are still kids.

When people say, "People is still people", then you know you're in a small town.

 

[yakuruto]

Yup, and loving it , but wouldn't mind moving to a bigger city

 

[99.vikram]

- People are afraid to voice their opinions on subjects of vital importance to our very way of life for fear of causing offence to someone, somewhere
- In fact people are so paranoid of causing offence to various minority groups that they can unwittingly be offensively patronising towards them in the process.
- Kids are no longer allowed to be kids - they must be kept inside and "safe", or escorted between supervised areas within the confines of a car, at the expense of their social skills, proper development and their very mental health.
- We as a society embrace levels of government surveillance and control over our lives on a level that would have been absolutely unthinkable only a decade ago, all in the name of some negligble increase in security.
- Most recently, that would be communism masquerading as environmentalism. We can save you from the evil climate change menace, but first you must surrender your personal freedoms, your right to private transport, give over your money to repent for your sins and by the way, we'll need a big, authoritarian, global government to be able to save the planet. Do as we say, and not as we do.
- We willingly allow our roads to be entangled in regression and methods of oppression - blanketed by intrusive cameras and Hitleresque enforcement, all in the name of safety and the environment - yet this is a country with 32 million drivers, and a relatively insignificant 3000 people are killed in road accidents each year.
Your chances of suffering a serious injury in a traffic accident are almost non-existent, and yet the fear of this allows the authorities to restrict the use of the car - complete freedom of movement, in essence - push our journey times back into the stone age and have Orwellian levels of surveillance over our movements and dispense summary justice with a presumption of guilt for minor infractions. All an excuse, of course, to further government control and raise extra revenue. The freedom to travel about your business unhindered underpins all freedoms.
- Everyone is convinced that risk is a bad thing, to be avoided at all costs. Certainly our society thinks so, with its legions of health and safety parasites, scare-story alarmists and people who aspire to be nothing greater than a corporate shill with access to empty materialistic pleasures.

I have never experienced any of this where I live, but -

- Enterpreneurial spirit, self-reliance and the destiny of one's own vision is a lost art. The ultimate aspiration of most today is to secure a comfortable and stable income fulfilling someone else's destiny in corporate servitude.

This is a massive problem here. Kids are taught right from childhood that the only acceptable employment is a safe job in a big company. If you study hard, who knows, you could even become Vice President of a company!

The importance of ideas and originality has been completely undermined, and the entrepreneurial spirit is dismissed as craziness/lack of understanding of the risks.

Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is dead. The age when people weren't afraid to do something on their own is dead.
I hate all this.

 

[repiV]

True, speed is not the only factor, and appropriate distance between cars is crucial, but I disagree about slower driving increasing the risk of paying less attention to the road. Morons will be morons regardless of speed, just like serious drivers will be careful whether driving fast or slow.

It's not necessarily a case of them being morons, slowing the traffic down below that which is necessary lulls people into a false sense of security and is tiring. I can absolutely guarantee that if this ridiculous London-wide 20mph limit comes into force, accidents will go through the roof and a lot more pedestrians (who are also lulled into a false sense of security by the slow traffic) will be killed too.

I don't know how's the driving environment in your area, but here (in both sides of the border) about 90% of car and motorbike accidents are caused by speeding drivers.

I don't see how that's possible. Less than 5% of accidents here are attributed even in part to either excessive speed or exceeding the speed limit, an insignificant percentage. The vast majority of accidents are caused by inattention or unlicensed/uninsured/drunk drivers.
The other problem here is that the zealous obsession with speed enforcement and constant "speed kills" propaganda has convinced many people that their only responsibility when driving is to obey the speed limit. So long as they don't exceed that magical number, they're a safe driver.
A friend of mine got hit by a car that pulled out on him, he was doing something like 35-40 when the woman pulled out and she tried to blame the accident on him because "he was speeding". Right, so that excuses your reckless negligence and inability to look before moving out?
It's Driving 4 Dummies. Personally I find a lot more people pull out on me when I'm doing 30 than when I'm doing 40.

EDIT:

Getting back on topic, the risk aversion can very well come from what Buddhists call "attachment". If you think your happiness lies in some material possession, certain persons or whatever you hold precious it's obvious that you'll be afraid of losing it. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about everything or anybody, just that you should focus on enjoying every moment of your life. I'm no Buddhist so I don't quite understand the deeper aspects of this philosophy.

Maybe it's naturally what happens when society reaches its peak?
We live in an overly regulated world of abundance, where you can have pretty much all your basic needs more than taken care of. People aren't accustomed to having to really work for anything maybe? Sheltered?

I think the media is the largest reason why we have such a paranoid state of affairs. Nowadays, unlike 20 years ago, we see all the horrible things that we do to each other on the morning news. The only news we ever see is bad news, and I think that it is causing more harm than most people realize.

Could be...personally I'm inclined to believe that people are soft from having too-comfortable lives, and it creates a kind of phobia of anything that falls outside this scope of security.
Perhaps people no longer appreciate their freedoms because essentially they've already given them up by choosing to lead an unremarkable life of servitude and material comfort.

I think the obbession with health and safety is too do with Sueing. Nowadays you can sue a company if you bang your head on they're land, even if they had nothing to do with it. Just look at that time when that old lady sued Mcdonalds because her coffee was hot.

Ah yeah. Do you think that accounts for the cultural shift though?

I have never experienced any of this where I live, but -


This is a massive problem here. Kids are taught right from childhood that the only acceptable employment is a safe job in a big company. If you study hard, who knows, you could even become Vice President of a company!

The importance of ideas and originality has been completely undermined, and the entrepreneurial spirit is dismissed as craziness/lack of understanding of the risks.

Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is dead. The age when people weren't afraid to do something on their own is dead.
I hate all this.

Exactly. It's a massive threat to the power of the individual.
It used to be that most people were self-employed, and had significant influence over their own lives and also their community. Nowadays people's individuality is swallowed up by massive corporations for use on the global battleground. It's a total corruption of what capitalism is all about, the empowerment of the individual has become the empowerment of the corporation.
Your identity used to be defined by what you produced, but now it's about what you consume. Twisted.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I agree with a lot of your points, but, re the thread in general, I remain unconvinced by this incessant doomsaying.

"The age when people weren't afraid to do something on their own is dead."
WE ARE NOW LIVING IN A TIME WHEN

What, because naturally our history is stable and discrete. Because we sure can identify vaste swathes of our own past as "the age of x" and then we can say we are no longer living in that age.
When was that age? Who are these people?

You're not really achieving anything by dividing history into "then was like that, now is like this."

 

[kirovman]

I'm against longevity, because it decreases the value of my pension.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I have more time so I will reply in full.

- People are afraid to voice their opinions on subjects of vital importance to our very way of life for fear of causing offence to someone, somewhere

I think its the fear of what might happen to them if they offend that person rather than the fear of actually offending them.

- In fact people are so paranoid of causing offence to various minority groups that they can unwittingly be offensively patronising towards them in the process.

This is thanks to the PC crowd. If people do say something they immediatly get called RACIST FACIST BASTARD HITLER LOVER.

- Enterpreneurial spirit, self-reliance and the destiny of one's own vision is a lost art. The ultimate aspiration of most today is to secure a comfortable and stable income fulfilling someone else's destiny in corporate servitude.

As someone recently out of school I am pretty certain it is because people are taught about employment, but self-employment barely gets a mention. I did buisness studies in year 10/11 and barely anyone wanted to do it. I think perhaps the fact that it isn't "cool" to be smart also has something to do with it.

- Kids are no longer allowed to be kids - they must be kept inside and "safe", or escorted between supervised areas within the confines of a car, at the expense of their social skills, proper development and their very mental health.

I agree; in one of my friends villages the council removed the see-saw on the basis that it could cause harm.

-

We as a society embrace levels of government surveillance and control over our lives on a level that would have been absolutely unthinkable only a decade ago, all in the name of some negligble increase in security.

I don't really mind the survelliance outside. For its just any kind of domestic suveliance, such as wire tapping, is abhorrent.

-

- Most recently, that would be communism masquerading as environmentalism. We can save you from the evil climate change menace, but first you must surrender your personal freedoms, your right to private transport, give over your money to repent for your sins and by the way, we'll need a big, authoritarian, global government to be able to save the planet. Do as we say, and not as we do.

No offence, but I think you are overeacting a lot here.