Save the Lebanese civilians (warning: graphical images inside)

[Fat Tony!]

I didn't sign it since im lazy and it won't do anything, I just hope that the international community can deal with israel once and for all, they are big war mongers and should be restrained.

 

[Raziaar]

I didn't sign it since im lazy and it won't do anything, I just hope that the international community can deal with israel once and for all, they are big war mongers and should be restrained.

Their war mongering is about on par with all their neighbors in the region.

 

[Fat Tony!]

Yeah I don't see them on the news!!!!111

 

[15357]

 

[Raziaar]

Yeah I don't see them on the news!!!!111

They've been on the news in the past. Just because they're not on there now doesn't mean they don't have it in them.

 

[Fat Tony!]

After checking on a map, I actually know what their Neighbours are...I fail at Geography.

But either way they are by far the worst, there was palestine and now there is this war too. They seem to think they can invade any country they want, it's stupid.

 

[DreamThrall]

I'm sorry, and I'm not singling you out here, but i'm so sick of the "anti-semitism" "you just hate jews" retort to everything, everytime somone questions Israeli intentions, or actions.

If you think about it, anti-semitism is the entire reason all this is going on with Israel to begin with. Israel has basically been fending off attacks from its neighbors since it was created. Hizbullah is supported by Iran, whose leader wants to wipe out the entire Israeli state. If you look at the big picture, Israel is not the aggressor here. They literally have a day to day fight for survival. If it wasn't for anti-semitism, none of this would be happening.

 

[Korgoth]

I'm talking about over here, not over there. And that still doesn't excuse their actions either. Its not "protecting" yourself anymore, when the majority of deaths resulting from your bombs are women, children, civillains. And when someone speaks out at how appalling it is, its unfair to claim they are anti semitic, thats just an easy out of actually owing up to what they've done.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Translation "Spirit of the IDF"


ISRAEL MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR QANA DEATHS

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html


There is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the one Israeli air strike that hit the Qana building housing the civilians, which took place around 1 A.M. Sunday, and the first report that the building had collapsed, said the chief of staff of the Israel Air Force, Brigadier General Amir Eshel. Speaking at a press conference at the Kirya military complex in Tel Aviv last night, Eshel said that of three Israeli air strikes on Qana early Sunday, only the first strike hit the building in which the civilians were staying. The other two hit areas at least 400 meters away.

"I can't say whether the house collapsed at 12 A.M. or at 8 A.M.," said Eshel. "According to foreign press reports, and this is one of the reports we are relying on, the house collapsed at 8 A.M. We do not have testimony regarding the time of the collapse. If the house collapsed at 12 A.M., it is difficult for me to believe that they waited eight hours to evacuate it."


Addressing the possibility that the building may have collapsed because the IAF bombing triggered a delayed explosion of weapons stored inside, Eshel said: "I don't want to get into conspiracy theories. We will work diligently and collect every detail, so as to understand what happened there. I hope that we will know in the end, but I'm not sure. It's possible that we will never know what exactly happened there."

 

[Bad^Hat]

404'd.

 

[Sulkdodds]

omg, someone else watches

waitasec...there's a homestar runner wiki? D:

 

[DeusExMachina]

There's a wiki for the chair I'm sitting in right now.

 

[DreamThrall]

And that still doesn't excuse their actions either. Its not "protecting" yourself anymore, when the majority of deaths resulting from your bombs are women, children, civillains.

You mean to say, "the majority of deaths you hear about". There are a lot of people who WANT to hear about how horrible the Israelis are. The same way you don't hear much of the good things that are coming out of Iraq, I'm fairly certain you won't hear much good of what comes from Israeli actions like this. However, due to the Israeli's current position in the region, don't you think it would be in their best interests to try their damnest to avoid things like this? Its not like they're on a rampage TRYING to kill civilians.

 

[CptStern]

ISRAEL MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR QANA DEATHS

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html


There is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the one Israeli air strike that hit the Qana building housing the civilians, which took place around 1 A.M. Sunday, and the first report that the building had collapsed, said the chief of staff of the Israel Air Force, Brigadier General Amir Eshel. Speaking at a press conference at the Kirya military complex in Tel Aviv last night, Eshel said that of three Israeli air strikes on Qana early Sunday, only the first strike hit the building in which the civilians were staying. The other two hit areas at least 400 meters away.

"I can't say whether the house collapsed at 12 A.M. or at 8 A.M.," said Eshel. "According to foreign press reports, and this is one of the reports we are relying on, the house collapsed at 8 A.M. We do not have testimony regarding the time of the collapse. If the house collapsed at 12 A.M., it is difficult for me to believe that they waited eight hours to evacuate it."


Addressing the possibility that the building may have collapsed because the IAF bombing triggered a delayed explosion of weapons stored inside, Eshel said: "I don't want to get into conspiracy theories. We will work diligently and collect every detail, so as to understand what happened there. I hope that we will know in the end, but I'm not sure. It's possible that we will never know what exactly happened there."

funny how this contradicts what your article says:

Witnesses said the early-morning strike hit the three-storey building where families had been sheltering in the basement, crushing it sideways into an enormous crater. [crater from another blast]

One survivor said the "bombing was so intense that no-one could move".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm

 

[Parlez]

This is the first thread I opened when I woke up. Those pictures are sad ;(

 

[15357]

Translation "Spirit of the IDF"


ISRAEL MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR QANA DEATHS

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html


There is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the one Israeli air strike that hit the Qana building housing the civilians, which took place around 1 A.M. Sunday, and the first report that the building had collapsed, said the chief of staff of the Israel Air Force, Brigadier General Amir Eshel. Speaking at a press conference at the Kirya military complex in Tel Aviv last night, Eshel said that of three Israeli air strikes on Qana early Sunday, only the first strike hit the building in which the civilians were staying. The other two hit areas at least 400 meters away.

"I can't say whether the house collapsed at 12 A.M. or at 8 A.M.," said Eshel. "According to foreign press reports, and this is one of the reports we are relying on, the house collapsed at 8 A.M. We do not have testimony regarding the time of the collapse. If the house collapsed at 12 A.M., it is difficult for me to believe that they waited eight hours to evacuate it."


Addressing the possibility that the building may have collapsed because the IAF bombing triggered a delayed explosion of weapons stored inside, Eshel said: "I don't want to get into conspiracy theories. We will work diligently and collect every detail, so as to understand what happened there. I hope that we will know in the end, but I'm not sure. It's possible that we will never know what exactly happened there."

That picture seems true enough..

Dunno about the article, though. Too many people claiming different things...

 

[Ennui]

Translation "Spirit of the IDF"


ISRAEL MAY NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR QANA DEATHS

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744426.html


There is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the one Israeli air strike that hit the Qana building housing the civilians, which took place around 1 A.M. Sunday, and the first report that the building had collapsed, said the chief of staff of the Israel Air Force, Brigadier General Amir Eshel. Speaking at a press conference at the Kirya military complex in Tel Aviv last night, Eshel said that of three Israeli air strikes on Qana early Sunday, only the first strike hit the building in which the civilians were staying. The other two hit areas at least 400 meters away.

"I can't say whether the house collapsed at 12 A.M. or at 8 A.M.," said Eshel. "According to foreign press reports, and this is one of the reports we are relying on, the house collapsed at 8 A.M. We do not have testimony regarding the time of the collapse. If the house collapsed at 12 A.M., it is difficult for me to believe that they waited eight hours to evacuate it."


Addressing the possibility that the building may have collapsed because the IAF bombing triggered a delayed explosion of weapons stored inside, Eshel said: "I don't want to get into conspiracy theories. We will work diligently and collect every detail, so as to understand what happened there. I hope that we will know in the end, but I'm not sure. It's possible that we will never know what exactly happened there."

Even if the bombs triggered the explosives, it's still their fault. That's like lighting a fuse and saying it's not your fault that something blew up at the end.

 

[Korgoth]

You mean to say, "the majority of deaths you hear about". There are a lot of people who WANT to hear about how horrible the Israelis are. The same way you don't hear much of the good things that are coming out of Iraq, I'm fairly certain you won't hear much good of what comes from Israeli actions like this. However, due to the Israeli's current position in the region, don't you think it would be in their best interests to try their damnest to avoid things like this? Its not like they're on a rampage TRYING to kill civilians.

Wow, how the hell did you spin iraq/liberal media in to this? lol that was amazing. And I never said they were meaning to kill civillians, but that doesn't change the fact that civillians are needlessly dying. How can you condemn your enemy for killing your friends and neighbors, when you are doing the same thing to theirs?

 

[DreamThrall]

Wow, how the hell did you spin iraq/liberal media in to this? lol that was amazing. And I never said they were meaning to kill civillians, but that doesn't change the fact that civillians are needlessly dying.

The thing is, politically, I consider myself a liberal. I'm in an difficult position because I'm also Jewish, and my support for Israel seems at odds with what most other liberals believe. While I do not agree with what we've done with Iraq, the fact of the matter is, there are some good things going on there. Not enough to justify what we've done, but good things nonetheless are happening, and we just don't hear anything of it anymore. I wasn't "spinning" anything into this, it was a valid comparison between the situation in Iraq and what is happening now with Israel's actions in Lebanon.

How can you condemn your enemy for killing your friends and neighbors, when you are doing the same thing to theirs?

The difference is that Hizbullah is purposefully targeting civilians. The Israelis are not. The picture RakuraiTenjin posted says it all, really.

 

[CptStern]

The thing is, politically, I consider myself a liberal. I'm in an difficult position because I'm also Jewish, and my support for Israel seems at odds with what most other liberals believe. While I do not agree with what we've done with Iraq, the fact of the matter is, there are some good things going on there. Not enough to justify what we've done, but good things nonetheless are happening, and we just don't hear anything of it anymore. I wasn't "spinning" anything into this, it was a valid comparison between the situation in Iraq and what is happening now with Israel's actions in Lebanon.

I have to agree ..I dont think you were spinning anything out of this ...however in the case of Iraq if there was good news to report I'd sure as hell welcome it ..but a few rebuilt wells and a handful of students going to school under us protection doesnt erase or the invasion and occupation of iraq, Haditha, abu-gharib etc etc

The difference is that Hizbullah is purposefully targeting civilians. The Israelis are not. The picture RakuraiTenjin posted says it all, really.

as a jew I'm sure you have an emotional stake in this ..we'd all like to believe that a sovereign nation when waging war ensures that they keep the fighting clean, but it's rarely the case ..civilians make up over 80% of the casualties in any given conflict so to me it doesnt say a lot about the moral ethics of a nation at war ..however I dont think anyone can clearly say the Israelis arent targeting civilians ..700+ dead civilians is an awfully high number for a military purposefully avoiding civilian casualties ...also Israel doesnt exactly have the best reputation for avoiding civilian casualties in Qana

 

[CptStern]

The thing is, politically, I consider myself a liberal. I'm in an difficult position because I'm also Jewish, and my support for Israel seems at odds with what most other liberals believe. While I do not agree with what we've done with Iraq, the fact of the matter is, there are some good things going on there. Not enough to justify what we've done, but good things nonetheless are happening, and we just don't hear anything of it anymore. I wasn't "spinning" anything into this, it was a valid comparison between the situation in Iraq and what is happening now with Israel's actions in Lebanon.

I have to agree ..I dont think you were spinning anything out of this ...however in the case of Iraq if there was good news to report I'd sure as hell welcome it ..but a few rebuilt wells and a handful of students going to school under US protection doesnt erase the under false pretenses invasion and occupation of iraq, Haditha, abu-gharib etc etc


someone somewhere remarked:

"So Hezbollah is trying to kill civilians and has killed like 18, Israel is trying to avoid civilians and has killed 700?"

The difference is that Hizbullah is purposefully targeting civilians. The Israelis are not. The picture RakuraiTenjin posted says it all, really.

as a jewish person I'm sure you have an emotional stake in all this ..we'd all like to believe that a sovreign nation when waging war ensures that they keep the fighting clean, but it's rarely the case ..civilians make up over 80% of the casualties in any given conflict so to me it doesnt say a lot about the moral ethics of a nation at war ..however I dont think anyone can clearly say the Israelis arent targeting civilians ..700+ dead civilians is an awfully high number for a military purposefully avoiding civilian casualties ...also Israel doesnt exactly have the best reputation for avoiding civilian casualties in Qana

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Even if the bombs triggered the explosives, it's still their fault. That's like lighting a fuse and saying it's not your fault that something blew up at the end.

They issued several warnings that the town was going to be attacked and told civilians to evacuate. It's unfortunate anyone stayed, but staying where weapons were being stored, after being warned to leave because weapons and terrorists would be targetted.. I think that sort of leads to these situations.

 

[CptStern]

They issued several warnings that the town was going to be attacked and told civilians to evacuate. It's unfortunate anyone stayed, but staying where weapons were being stored, after being warned to leave because weapons and terrorists would be targetted.. I think that sort of leads to these situations.

sounds to me like you're saying it's their fault for being there in the first place

how exactly do you propose they escape? fleeing vehicles are targeted by IDF

The road into Qana bore witness to the fierceness of the Israeli airpower __ flattened homes and other buildings, cars that were shattered wrecks. The road was an obstacle course of bomb craters and stretches littered with debris from structures blasted into rubble by bombs.

In Qana, it wasn't initially clear where the latest missile had hit. There was so much damage in the village, houses with gaping holes, others with floors collapsed on to one another.


...Noor said her family stayed in Qana because they were too afraid to go. They had heard the stories about the dead on the road. Several people in their village had tried to flee. Some had died. Then they heard the road was closed because of the bombing.

Noor just knew one thing for sure: "I was afraid."

it sounds almost exactly like what happened in Qana in 1996. The israelis claimed then that it was an accident as well despite proof to the contrary:

The UN appointed military advisor Major-General Franklin van Kappen of the Netherlands to investigate the incident. His conclusions were:

(a) The distribution of impacts at Qana shows two distinct concentrations, whose mean points of impact are about 140 metres apart. If the guns were converged, as stated by the Israeli forces, there should have been only one main point of impact.

(b) The pattern of impacts is inconsistent with a normal overshooting of the declared target (the mortar site) by a few rounds, as suggested by the Israeli forces.

(c) During the shelling, there was a perceptible shift in the weight of fire from the mortar site to the United Nations compound.

(d) The distribution of point impact detonations and air bursts makes it improbable that impact fuses and proximity fuses were employed in random order, as stated by the Israeli forces.

(e) There were no impacts in the second target area which the Israeli forces claim to have shelled.

(f) Contrary to repeated denials, two Israeli helicopters and a remotely piloted vehicle were present in the Qana area at the time of the shelling.

While the possibility cannot be ruled out completely, it is unlikely that the shelling of the United Nations compound was the result of gross technical and/or procedural errors

 

[gh0st]

oh my goodness! those pictures are so sad the israelis are such monsters for doing that to little children '''

 

[CptStern]

lol, less pious ..more believable that way ..oh and try to avoid words like goodness, or gosh darnit, or awww shucks, or fiddle-dee ..we already have one golly-gee-whiz-forumite we dont need another

 

[Ennui]

They issued several warnings that the town was going to be attacked and told civilians to evacuate. It's unfortunate anyone stayed, but staying where weapons were being stored, after being warned to leave because weapons and terrorists would be targetted.. I think that sort of leads to these situations.

Do you honestly believe that excuses it? That the atrocious murder of dozens of civilians - the majority of whom were children who hadn't even gotten a chance to really live yet - is somehow less horrific because they said "we're going to bomb you" first?

I like you, Rakurai, but I really wish you would soften up. All of you, seriously. You're too cynical. Just because you're used to terrible shit happening doesn't mean you have to stop caring. Life is never going to improve unless humans do first.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Do you honestly believe that excuses it? That the atrocious murder of dozens of civilians - the majority of whom were children who hadn't even gotten a chance to really live yet - is somehow less horrific because they said "we're going to bomb you" first?

I like you, Rakurai, but I really wish you would soften up. All of you, seriously. You're too cynical. Just because you're used to terrible shit happening doesn't mean you have to stop caring. Life is never going to improve unless humans do first.

I don't not care. I feel sorry for them. I don't think it's right the direction everyone is projecting their anger though, it should be at Hezbollah.

 

[gh0st]

I don't not care.

you are such a mean poo poo head! they are just little babies how could you be so cruel?

<3 gh0st