Secret spying, the Constitution

[kathaksung]

Thread "See US politics from another angle" was locked. Don't know why. Political incorrect? Or a government censorship?

368. Pirates the Constitution right (1/2/06)

Bush defended his domestic eavesdropping program was "targeted known Al-Qaida members or associates and involved intercepts of only a few numbers in the US." This is a quibble.

1. If it was about Al Qaida, why bypassed FISA? FISA warrant is easy to get.
And there is reason to believe Al Qaida was under surveillance already. What is the work for CIA? How do they spend the huge budget on intelligence? Consider Al Qaida is illegal in every country and was in escape in caves. (what government said)

2. Who gave Bush the right to ride over the Constitution? Secret eavesdropping means unreasonable search and seizure which is against 4th Amendment. When the administration authorize themselves the right to search and arrest, then what's the difference from a totalitarian? Bush will be the similar figure like Saddam.

3. Bush is a villain who used to extort people by "terrorist". He had intimidated US into an unjust war by "WMD", "imminent danger". He now blackmails Americans by "saving their lives". Step by step, he rips off the civil right from American people and turns US into a totalitarian country.

4. Beware of another "terror attack" activated by Bush's group to justify his illegal action.

369. D.O.J. wants unlimited power (1/2/06)

Though Bush tries to put the argument in the name of "we are in the war, saving American's lives", his real purpose is to legalize unreasonable search. The real commander behind him is the Department of Justice.

1) US citizens are protected by the Constitution. If government wants to put you under surveillance, they must apply for a warrant from the court with evidence.

2) FISA(Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) is in low standard. Government can apply a warrant based on suspicion not evidence. But there is a wall to prevent it to be used in domestic criminal case. Because there is big difference between suspicion and evidence. And we have seen how D.O.J. hates this wall and activated waves of attack on it.

3) What happens now is government even abandon the court system and issue warrant by themselves. That's how Bush authorizes the domestic eavesdropping. If that goes through, then it's a totalitarian. The government can do what they want to do. There is no check and balance to this power. America loses it's principle of foundation.

You will understand a series events happened recently if you read the above analysis. Why a FISA judge resigned to protest. Why Bush defended his spying policy again and again. Why D.O.J. hastily start to probe the leak on spying program.

A typical sample is Padilla's case. Padilla was held without charge for three years. Now government dropped former "dirty bomb" allegation and tried to deliver him to domestic criminal court with other charges. A typical "arrest without evidence" then to transfer him to a domestic court which needs evidence to arrest. D.O.J. tried to establish a case to break the wall which is set to protect American people.

370. The corrupt D.O.J. attacks (1/2/06)

The purpose of 4th Amendment is to protect people from evil activities (set up, plant) of corruptive law enforcement agent.

If corrupt official plant fake evidence at your home. (gun, drugs) And asked for a search warranty. Judge would asked him for evidence. The corrupt official couldn't say:" Because I suspect it." That's how domestic criminal law requires. It depends on Evidence not suspicion.
The official also couldn't say, "I knew it because I had a search already." That's unreasonable search. (warrantless search) It's illegal.

FISA standard is low. Law enforcement official can request a warrant on suspicion not evidence. But there is a wall to forbid it be used in domestic criminal law. Otherwise 4th amendment will mean nothing.

Corrupt officials plant fake evidence at your home. Then apply a warrant from FISA. Say they suspect you are a terrorist. They get a warrant then found the "evidence"(gun, drug) at your home. That's how the 4th Amendment bypassed. A foreign intelligence method is used in domestic criminal law. Though D.O.J. said Patriot Act gave them such privilege, there is at least a FISA court watch their behavior.

Now they even don't need a FISA approval. They authorize themselves the right to search and arrest. To give the order to search in name of save lives of citizens. Is it for "security" or rather, abusing power? When it goes, the Constitution means nothing. It allows unlimited power of police search and arrest. (to be continued)

 

[Angry Lawyer]

D:

They're sticking isotope money in your pockets!

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Solaris]

Rofl At You.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Oh noes! Run before it's too late...they are on to you!

Thread "See US politics from another angle" was locked. Don't know why. Political incorrect? Or a government censorship?

I'm going to be accused of being a government pawn in multiple websites/rants for doing this but..... Closed.

They already have taken Blink! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

 

[Sulkdodds]

Thread "See US politics from another angle" was locked. Don't know why. Political incorrect? Or a government censorship?

I would have thought a genius would have worked it out by now. It's the latter.

 

[Solaris]

THEY WORK FOR THE CI.......................................[silence as body slumps to floor]

 

[Bait]

Government has wall h4x and aim bots. Don't try to resist, like by trying to hide behind a crate. They'll find you.

 

[kathaksung]

372. Justice Department to probe Leak on Spying Program

There are two kinds of leaking.

1. The leak was done by Feds itself to revenge at their dislikes. Such like "Watergate"case. President Nixon intended to reform D.O.J.. Then there was a deep throat to leak a scandal. Nixon had to resign the job. D.O.J. never did an investigation because it was done by itself. An FBI agent.

Or the Plame's case. D.O.J. never did an active investigation on it. Because the person likely is a member of Bush's administration.

Re: Nixon's case: (the references are two articles I have posted before. I re-post for your convenience.)

295. Who controls D.O.J.? (3/7/05)

Former President Kennedy was assassinated. Former President Clinton was impeached. All these revealed that even in top position, US politicians are under the control of intelligence. They were under the surveillance. They were extorted, blackmailed by intelligence. If they disobeyed, then they were punished by scandal, or even been assassinated.

Former President Nixon was almost impeached. He lost his post in oval office in early 70's. The formal reason was he lied to cover up a tape which might reveal his awareness of illegal campaign activity. But lie and dirty campaign activity were common among high ranking politicians. It was only an excuse. Then what was the real purpose?

In March 2002, a news helped me resolved several puzzles. It was a tape of Nixon's conversation with former treasury secretary Connally.

Re:
Quote, "Nixon Defended Envoy's Groping
1972 Tapes Also Reveal Talk of a Justice Dept. 'Full of Jews'
By George Lardner Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 1, 2002; Page A02

"Oh! Oh, God!" Nixon said with a sigh. "It erodes our confidence, our strength. They're untrustworthy. . . . Look at the Justice Department, it's full of Jews."
"Any place of power," Connally agreed. "SEC used to be -- all of them, those lawyers."
"Listen, the lawyers in government are damn Jews," Nixon said.

Both men agreed that Nixon should try to reduce the Jewish influence in a second term. Nixon told Connally on May 15 that he wanted no more than 2 percent of the government's political appointees to be Jewish, in proportion to the population. He later said 10 percent would be acceptable, "but certainly not 30 or 40 percent."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20361-2002Feb28.html

I then knew who control Justice department and why Nixon lost his job.
Nixon realized that there was a disproportion of government political appointees to the population. He thought it was not for the interest of US and tried to change that situation. He faced an impeach and had to resign before he could do it.

Now I know why Sharon said, "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, to Shimon Peres, October 8th, 2001

Israel controls D.O.J.. D.O.J. controls FBI. And FBI keep Americans under surveillance, include Presidents.

2. If the leak was done to reveal the scandal of Feds or Bush administration. Then they did an active job to revenge at the purpose to silence it. Justice Department to probe Leak on Spying Program belongs to this one. It's an intimidation on lawmakers to pass the Patriot Act because it will terminated in five weeks.

Re:
89. Polygraph law makers (9/25/02)

In early June, a news said the conversations between Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Mohammed Atta were intercepted by NSA. It said in two separate conversations on Sept. 10, 2001 contained the phrases "Tomorrow is zero hour" and "The match is about to begin.". Since these two phrases are vague one and consider NSA intercepts 2 million conversations in each hour, the pick up of these two phrases was not a coincidence. It proves that Atta was under surveillance by government earlier before 911.

Then FBI said it was a secret intelligence information which shouldn't be let out public. They are investigating who has leaked it. They target on law makers and even request a polygraph.

But who will investigate the secret information leaking committed by intelligence itself?

When the news said Atta made contact to Iraq diplomat in Czech and talked about bombing plot, it revealed that Atta and Iraq diplomat were under surveillance and it revealed the Czech intelligence was cooperated with USA.

There was another similar news release. By February 2001, NSA had broken the bin Laden's communications encryption system. What we know from the information government released is that OBL talked to his mother two days before 911 attack, "In two days, you're going to hear big news, and you're not going to hear from me for a while." It let people know that Bin laden's communication was under surveillance as long as 6 months before 911. And his communication code was broken.

Nobody could release such information but intelligence. Though the original purpose of news about Atta and Iraq diplomat was to target on Iraq to frame it linking with 911 terrorist, so administration could have excuse to start a war with Iraq. And the news of Bin Laden's intercepted conversation was used as a legal base for Bush to start war in Afghan. These leaking are as important as the Atta's "Tomorrow is zero huor" one. Why FBI had a blind eye on these leaking? Because they were released by intelligence?

The secret information leaking FBI accused of took place in early June, at a time when lawmakers and 911 victims were going to investigate failure of intelligence of 911 attack with an independent commission. It could be a trap set up by intelligence. They use this method to retaliate, or extort law makers to avoid investigation on their own flaw or crime. Or try to reach a compromise.

If we don't know these "secrecy", we will believe what government said that they had known nothing before 911 attack. "Secret" is only a stonewall they used to cover up their corruption.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Nazi. :|

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Secret eavesdropping isn't unreasonable search and seizure which is against the 4th Amendment.

 

[bigburpco]

Thread "See US politics from another angle" was locked. Don't know why. Political incorrect? Or a government censorship?

BWAHAHA WHAT"S WITH YOU

Secret eavesdropping isn't unreasonable search and seizure which is against the 4th Amendment.

You don't have to even argue...

"From mid October, there is a new wave of Internet attack on me. I failed to post in many sites because of technique harassment. I was even banned from some forums.

Here was a ban in "Halflife2.net". The page said, ""Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system? "

I have the experience Feds using my INTERNET address to post offensive messages which caused ban on me

You see, this guy is hilarious. He must be paranoid of the internets... haha. What a genius.

 

[15357]

Hey, you moron. The goverment has very good reasons to arrest people and censor stuff.

liberal criminal. (NOTE: translated, it can be used as an insult)

 

[bigburpco]

Hey, you moron. The goverment has very good reasons to arrest people and censor stuff.

liberal criminal. (NOTE: translated, it can be used as an insult)

Yeah, but when a newspaper was no delivered to his doorstep for a day he suspected that FED did not want him to view an article concerning JFK... why would the government want to censor him? :angel:

He doesn't read posts for one thing. He just types facts and other things into a large pile and throws it on my doorstep (which I sweep away), and seems oblivious to everything everything types. He is completely ignorant and cannot figure why he was banned before. He believed the government wanted to ban him (or something else), when no one listens to him; they all just discuss on the poster not the post itself.

So why would the government want to censor it? I fail to see reason in that.

 

[15357]

Yeah, but when a newspaper was no delivered to his doorstep for a day he suspected that FED did not want him to view an article concerning JFK... why would the government want to censor him? :angel:

He doesn't read posts for one thing. He just types facts and other things into a large pile and throws it on my doorstep (which I sweep away), and seems oblivious to everything everything types. He is completely ignorant and cannot figure why he was banned before. He believed the government wanted to ban him (or something else), when no one listens to him; they all just discuss on the poster not the post itself.

So why would the government want to censor it? I fail to see reason in that.

because he is an mentally ill degenerative? :E

 

[CptStern]

Hey, you moron. The goverment has very good reasons to arrest people and censor stuff.

liberal criminal. (NOTE: translated, it can be used as an insult)

:upstare: ...I cant believe there's people who actually that nonsense





kathkasung probably hasnt taken his meds in awhile and as result his inate ability to detect "paranoid schitzo conspiracy" bullshit when he sees it isnt fuctioning properly ...but some of what he says comes close to some truths and half-truths he just makes far too many leaps of logic and some down right insane statements

 

[bigburpco]

kathkasung probably hasnt taken his meds in awhile and as result his inate ability to detect "paranoid schitzo conspiracy" bullshit when he sees it isnt fuctioning properly ...but some of what he says comes close to some truths and half-truths he just makes far too many leaps of logic and some down right insane statements

... You read his posts? :| I read a bit and then start laughing... ;(

 

[15357]

:upstare: ...I cant believe there's people who actually that nonsense





kathkasung probably hasnt taken his meds in awhile and as result his inate ability to detect "paranoid schitzo conspiracy" bullshit when he sees it isnt fuctioning properly ...but some of what he says comes close to some truths and half-truths he just makes far too many leaps of logic and some down right insane statements

What? "actually that nonsense"?

NOTE: I was very sleepy at the time and forgot to turn off my insanity drive.

 

[CptStern]

I guess ..heh "liberal" criminals ..that's just funny

... You read his posts? :| I read a bit and then start laughing... ;(

of course I did ..even some of the stuff he has on thousands of other forums

 

[15357]

I guess ..heh "liberal" criminals ..that's just funny

eh... A bit meh kind of funny.

Well, we do have signs on highways that say "Watch out for liberal criminals disguised as democracy supporters and report them to police"

 

[CptStern]

you're serious? that's just insane


oh noes!!1 the democracy supporters are going to kill us all! kill US ALL!!!!

 

[Solaris]

Do you live in North or South Korea?

 

[jondy]

Zomg Solaris is back!

 

[Sulkdodds]

Kathaksung could almost be a character on the jumping and standing forum.

 

[15357]

I live in South Korea. We still have propaganda signs left over from the 80s.

 

[Solaris]

Zomg Solaris is back!

I Thank you for the support. Stern on the other hand...

 

[venturon]

If anything this guy is dedicated.

 

[ComradeBadger]

THE CIA MADE ME DO IT.

 

[brink's]

Is this the guy who posts on 1000's of forums about how the CIA corrupted his microwave to make him sick or comments simialr to that? If not whats that guys name?

 

[CptStern]

probably

the 2 main conspiracy guys are kathkasung and John Titor ..but he claims to be from the future

 

[Solaris]

Hes a funny guy, hes regisistered on like a million forums, truly an american hero.

 

[jondy]

I Thank you for the support. Stern on the other hand...

Haha, I hope you know I'm being facetious. Or not... ignorance is, after all, bliss

 

[kathaksung]

373. Extortion by scandal (1/12/06)

From Water gate, Chandra Levy to Abramoff, scandal is a tool to extort politicians by D.O.J.. A series of scandal broke off recently. I allege it was targeted at Supreme Court Judge nomination.

Bush had nominated three candidates for the vacancy of Supreme Court. Among them: Roberts and Alito are typical agents of D.O.J. Harriet Miers is a 'yes lady' who is similar to Clarence Thomas. All of them will judge to the order from D.O.J. not to the principle of the Constitution.

Roberts was nominated in early September and was confirmed in 9/28. He took oath on 9/29. During the hearing, on 9/24, a big title was on news: "Probe into Frist stock sale expands". Frist was the Senate Majority leader. Then the scandal spread to the House Majority leader, Tom DeLay. He was indicted on 9/28 by a conspiracy charge.

In October, the news of DeLay's case, Frist case and CIA leaking case (Rove and Libby) were mixed with the nomination of Harriet Miers. Harriet Miers gave up at last. It ends with the indiction of Cheney's aid: Libby.

There was a silence period in the end of the year for scandal and Supreme Court nomination. Then both came back in January. Alito goes into hearing on 1/10/06. Six days before his hearing, Abramoff scandal became top news on 1/4. On 1/8, news reported that Rep. DeLay abandons bid to keep GOP leadership.

Bush's nominee obviously are the representatives of D.O.J. not the Republicans. So there is opposition from the GOP. That's why the scandal targeted at the Republican politicians. Of course there are D.O.J.'s agents in Demos. But if they vote against their party opinion, their real face will be exposed. So the extortion this time aimed at GOP. To create a false appearance of a struggle between two parties not by a dictatorship. The fake mask of "democracy" has to be maintained.

374. A covert totalitarian (1/12/06)

The point is to control the Supreme Court. When Alito replaces O'connor, D.O.J. will control the majority votes of the Supreme Court. Thus they can justify the secret spying by the approval of Supreme Court.

Roberts was proved not work for the civil right but for the interest of D.O.J.. (see #357. Another attack from D.O.J. (11/12/05))

Alito is the same. Re: "Analysis shows Alito favours authorities"
" In one case, Judge Alito said police did not violate the rights of a mother and her 10-year-old daughter, who were strip-searched during a raid of a drug dealer's home."

"A Knight Ridder analysis of more than 300 written opinions by Alito, for example, reveals that he has almost never found a government search unconstitutional and that he has argued to relax warrant requirements and to broaden the kinds of searches that warrants permit."

You can expect under such a Supreme Court, what kind of judgement Americans will have. The administration will take over the power of legislation to authorize themselves the right to spy on its citizens. They will bypass the court system to search and seize without warrant.

US is proud with its democratic system: three independent powers check and balance. But now there is only one power left: the administration. The core is D.O.J.. D.O.J. controls law makers by scandal and election. It also sends the representatives of its own to control the Supreme Court. When they can do whatever they want to do, they think they are the "God". A name always referred by Pat Robertson and Jorge Bush to justify the power abusing.

 

[CptStern]

jorge bush huh? is that like his mexican man servant who works at the white house but who's really the presidents half-brother after pappy bush had fleeting affair with Consuela the cleaning lady?






you need a way of stringing these fragments of evidence you're providing ..right now it pretty much sounds like you're saying after each sentence:


"coinidence? I think not"

 

[K e r b e r o s]

So, if a terrorist calls an American whose associated with terrorists, is that government spying good or bad?

I believe its good. Spy all you want -- because in the grand scheme of things over the Internet and Phone Conversations, Men are Men, the Women are Men, and the Children are CIA Agents.

 

[Reaktor4]

jorge bush huh? is that like his mexican man servant who works at the white house but who's really the presidents half-brother after pappy bush had fleeting affair with Consuela the cleaning lady?

Thread "See US politics from another angle" was locked. Don't know why. Political incorrect? Or a government censorship?

Seek medical attention.

 

[$kelet0r]

i think we need a kathaksung ytmnd
For Truth
:E

 

[kathaksung]

380. What an "eavesdropping" really mean.

So, if a terrorist calls an American whose associated with terrorists, is that government spying good or bad?

I believe its good. Spy all you want -- because in the grand scheme of things over the Internet and Phone Conversations, Men are Men, the Women are Men, and the Children are CIA Agents.

Either you can't catch the point or you deliberately distract, nobody forbid the government to spy on terrorist. The point is when it relates to US citizens, the government must apply a court warrant. The purpose is to protect the citizens from unreasonable search and arrest from corrupt government officials.


380. What an "eavesdropping" really mean.(1/27/06)

Do you think the agents only limit to eavesdrop your phone? Do you expect terrorist will say, "You bomb the Golden gate bridge tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock" in communication? It maybe words such like, "Tomorrow will be zero hour. The real match will begin." But was it more likely about a football match or a boxing show? How do you save lives by listen to these vague words? If you think with brain, you know the matter is not that simple limited only to a secret "eavesdropping".

A warrant of "eavesdropping" means much more. With it agents can start a search on "suspects". A search on your home, your financial records, tracing, interview your friends.... This is something government and media never tell you.

To my experience it means much more. The harassing in Internet. The car trouble. Feds create car trouble so they can install instrument in the car to eavesdrop or tracking when you send it for repair. Feds block the drainage to create a flooding to see if you have valuable things to hide, property problem..... Finally, to prove they are correct, Feds plant, frame, murder to eliminate evidence.

A lot of people may have encountered such problem without aware of truth because Feds are professional criminals. But our founding father know the danger of power abusing from internal. They made the Constitution to protect us from the corrupt official. That's why a court search warrant is so strict which demands evidence.

D.O.J. uses a beautiful decoration to violate the law. If it succeeds, the foundational Constitution bypassed. Civil rights will be seriously damaged. Terrorists may kill a few people but can't rob the freedom from Americans. Bush is worse, he took away the civil rights from all citizens. He is more dangerous than the terrorist.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Kathaksung responds. I'm amazed.

The government has absolutely no right to eavesdrop on anyone without a warrant. It's like the ridiculous UK anti-terrorism laws about holding without charge - if you want to arrest someone you're going to have valid reason to believe they are a terrorist or are affiliated with terrorists. If you have valid reason to believe they are a terrorist or are affiliated with terrorists, ****ing charge them with something. Issue a warrant. If they truly are worth spying on, it shouldn't be too hard to get a warrant right?

But answer me this Kathaksung. The kind of operations you're describing would require massed manpower on an epic scale. The amount of people that would have to be complicit in them is quite astounding. If the 'Feds' are doing all this, they can't possibly do it to that many people. Eh?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The government has absolutely no right to eavesdrop on anyone without a warrant.

So if another attack occurs in the UK, will you be inclined to blame your Ministry of Intelligence? Or does it seem easier to just simply blame the King and Queen?

Or, perhaps you could blame should another attack occur, the people that whined and restricited governmental power to stop terrorists. How about for a start, you blame the terrorists who commit the acts themselves, and start falling in line to prevent their attacks a bit, eh?

Either you can't catch the point or you deliberately distract, nobody forbid the government to spy on terrorist. The point is when it relates to US citizens, the government must apply a court warrant. The purpose is to protect the citizens from unreasonable search and arrest from corrupt government officials.

Yes, but this would require a warrant for every citizen, and that we don't have time for. Which I'm glad their spying -- no harm done. Like I've said, I'd much rather have my phone conversations overheard because for me, that shows the system is working. There not Psychics, so discovering these things takes time, and I much rather them hop to it and then have to jump through hoops of paperwork and rights vs rights claims while a potential threat becomes a real one.

You can only be worried about arrest if you're doing something wrong. And if you done nothing wrong and been arrested, you'll be released soon after. See, and why sweat?

 

[kathaksung]

Yes, but this would require a warrant for every citizen, and that we don't have time for. Which I'm glad their spying -- no harm done.

Do you suggest to spy on every citizen? You go farther than Bush did. He only did on a few. So you don't mind about your privacy, why don't you show us your bank account, financial statement, your phone number, your resume.....

You can only be worried about arrest if you're doing something wrong. And if you done nothing wrong and been arrested, you'll be released soon after. See, and why sweat?

It seems you haven't read my message. I repeat it for you:380. What an "eavesdropping" really mean.(1/27/06)

Do you think the agents only limit to eavesdrop your phone? Do you expect terrorist will say, "You bomb the Golden gate bridge tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock" in communication? It maybe words such like, "Tomorrow will be zero hour. The real match will begin." But was it more likely about a football match or a boxing show? How do you save lives by listen to these vague words? If you think with brain, you know the matter is not that simple limited only to a secret "eavesdropping".

A warrant of "eavesdropping" means much more. With it agents can start a search on "suspects". A search on your home, your financial records, tracing, interview your friends.... This is something government and media never tell you.

To my experience it means much more. The harassing in Internet. The car trouble. Feds create car trouble so they can install instrument in the car to eavesdrop or tracking when you send it for repair. Feds block the drainage to create a flooding to see if you have valuable things to hide, property problem..... Finally, to prove they are correct, Feds plant, frame, murder to eliminate evidence.

A lot of people may have encountered such problem without aware of truth because Feds are professional criminals. But our founding father know the danger of power abusing from internal. They made the Constitution to protect us from the corrupt official. That's why a court search warrant is so strict which demands evidence.

D.O.J. uses a beautiful decoration to violate the law. If it succeeds, the foundational Constitution bypassed. Civil rights will be seriously damaged. Terrorists may kill a few people but can't rob the freedom from Americans. Bush is worse, he took away the civil rights from all citizens. He is more dangerous than the terrorist.