Secularism in Turkey

[repiV]

I meant in general .. as in the general issues of the day ..but way to continue with your usual kneejerk reactionsim

I know what you meant, and you know what I was referring to. It doesn't change a damn thing. You've quite explicitly stated that you think anyone who disagrees with you politically is a moron. That makes you narrow-minded, prejudiced and arrogant. Two out of three of those qualities you apparently hate, but you exude them without even realising it.
I don't think I'd have to look too hard to find an "Americans are idiots" comment from you lying around.

lol, I label you extremist because you are ..of the foam at the mouth/omg we'll be overrun by the darkies/it's us against them variety

No, it's just your warped view of reality that classifies any dissenting voice as "extremist".

but I find it hilarious that you label me intolerant ..the irony escapes you which is puzzling because you seem to think you're intelligent

So I'm not intelligent because I disagree with you?
Despite having an IQ of 140 and being made to mark other kids' papers at school because they couldn't find anything else to do with me, plus having an evidently superior grasp of the English language than you, I'm a moron.
Another typical "tolerant liberal" debating tactic. It's pathetic. Try harder.

you tend to use the word "obvious" and "I believe" a lot but when asked to produce direct quotes I get nothing ...but again try not to sidestep this question:

WHY DID YOU BRING IT UP?

I brought it up because it's more than a little suspect that you choose to use a forum populated mainly by people half your age or younger to discuss politics. It suggests quite strongly that you couldn't handle yourself on a forum catered to your own age group.
Something I don't doubt, since you have an innate ability to gain popularity by your words, but a distinct lack of ability to hold a proper debate. Unfortunately for you, I can see through you.

and now you're just being purposefully mean ..did I kick your puppy perchance? or are you so intolerant (there's that word again) that you cant stomach someone calling you on your idiotic ideas?

I'm just gobsmacked that you can't see the sheer hypocrisy of your stance.

the fact that I shut you up is good enough for me ..see you might not realise this but you ignore 75% of what i say and nitpick a single point to death ..but my points still go unanswered so i can only assume that you've either conceded or are unwilling to challenge because you have no rebuttle

ok i've wasted enough time on you ..i'll back later to give you another once over

Ah yes, the moral highground tactic. "I've wasted enough time on you". Keep trying...

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Despite having an IQ of 140 and being made to mark other kids' papers at school because they couldn't find anything else to do with me, plus having an evidently superior grasp of the English language than you, I'm a moron.

I feel it's only fair to point out here that moronicness (moronicity?) isn't defined by IQ, or any other measure of "intelligence". It's defined by behaviour. Even the most intelligent people can be stupid.

 

[ComradeBadger]

The public schooling system was taken over by bleeding heart liberals a long time ago. It's why so many people think like you do.

I went to a grammar school, pretty much a bastion of conservatism - whoops.

How about freedom of speech, just for starters? Few people dare to say a word against Muslims these days, and if they do, they are often in fear of their lives.

Support your arguements with evidence, people genuinely fearing for their lives after criticising Muslims? If that was truely the case, the BNP would all be hiding in bunkers somewhere. Or are they just really brave?

How about...the custom of wearing the school uniform being waived in order to accomodate Muslims

School uniform was on it's way out prior to any of this. This is no new thing, at all.

Laws that protect the religious from criticism (ie. free speech), Muslim leaders being informed about anti-terror raids before they happen (!), cab drivers waiving their responsibility to carry all passengers on religious grounds to name just a few?

These laws restricting free speech, care to direct me to them? I'm interested to read their contents.

If Muslims even need special banks, special school uniforms and dress codes, and won't enter the most fundamental of British institutions, the pub...it's clear they don't belong here in our culture.

They're many Brits who don't patronise pubs at all, does that give them any less of a right to live here?

In all honesty, it very much appears that you're just trying to find a scapegoat for what you percieve as wrong in our society.

 

[repiV]

I went to a grammar school, pretty much a bastion of conservatism - whoops.

I went to a private school - most of the teachers were still liberals.

Support your arguements with evidence, people genuinely fearing for their lives after criticising Muslims? If that was truely the case, the BNP would all be hiding in bunkers somewhere. Or are they just really brave?

How about Salmon Rushdie (who was shot dead), the fallout from the Mohammed cartoons and that's just off the top of my head?
The chaos that ensues whenever Muslims are upset for no real reason far exceeds the objections to Islamic fundamentalism.

School uniform was on it's way out prior to any of this. This is no new thing, at all.

What the hell kind of argument is that?
People are still forced to wear standard school uniform (except Muslims).

These laws restricting free speech, care to direct me to them? I'm interested to read their contents.

What was Nick Griffin tried for recently? Oh yes, that's right, he got taken to court because he said that Islam is wicked and vicious.
You are not acquainted with the concept of the "hate crime"?

They're many Brits who don't patronise pubs at all, does that give them any less of a right to live here?

There's a difference, in that you cannot classify those Brits into one particular secluded lump who don't engage with other Brits. It is not an issue of contention, whereas to Muslims alcohol is immoral and by extension so are the people that drink it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Er...Salman Rushdie isn't actually dead. He's not been shot, and the fatwa against him was lifted.

 

[repiV]

Er...Salman Rushdie isn't actually dead. He's not been shot, and the fatwa against him was lifted.

My bad. There was a journalist who was shot dead.
Still, that doesn't make the situation even remotely acceptable.

 

[repiV]

I feel it's only fair to point out here that moronicness (moronicity?) isn't defined by IQ, or any other measure of "intelligence". It's defined by behaviour. Even the most intelligent people can be stupid.

Indeed. However, he claimed quite explicity that I was not intelligent.
Also, I am not being stupid.

 

[Pax]

Our Lord and Saviour Munro has created these forums, blessed be his name and forums, so one can post his or her rants in one 'post' instead of two separate posts.

Please keep to forum consuetudes without trying to abhor it too much.

As a reaction to your rant of silly talk I'd like to state the following:

"The moment he laid eyes on the lifeless body of the nude socialite sprawled across the bathroom floor, Detective Leary knew she had committed suicide by grasping the cap on the tamper-proof bottle, pushing down and twisting while she kept her thumb firmly pressed against the spot the arrow pointed to, until she hit the exact spot where the tab clicks into place, allowing her to remove the cap and swallow the entire contents of the bottle, thus ending her life."

Thank you for your time.

- Pax

 

[jverne]

Indeed. However, he claimed quite explicity that I was not intelligent.
Also, I am not being stupid.

now, i wouldn't say explicitly or even claimed. at least i didn't see it.

instead of throwing shit on each other. why don't we settle with...

religion is bad and is should be repressed by all means possible! ironic i know...but it's true.

 

[CptStern]

Indeed. However, he claimed quite explicity that I was not intelligent.

no I did not ..you said " explicitly" that I said you were not intellligent ..read what I wrote again, I said nothing of the sort ..try again

Also, I am not being stupid.

that's a matter of preception

 

[Asknoone]

Also, I am not being stupid.

I beg to differ.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

[T]here is a clear double standard in terms of how Islam is treated when compared to other religions.

No there isn't. Source?

Criticism of Islam is dealt with more harshly or refrained from...it is acceptable to take the piss out of Jesus but not Mohammed.

Both are acceptable. Source?

Just on here you can find plenty of people who stand up and defend Islam who would just as soon call someone an idiot purely for being a Christian.

Quotes please?

Our own foreign secretary was recently quoted as saying "the great and noble faith of Islam". She was trying to rally British Muslims against terrorism so perhaps a useful PR move, but nonetheless - pass the sick bucket.

So, someone panders to islam and you vomit.
But when politicians constantly praise god that's, I guess, not even worth mentioning.

I guess there is a double standard after all!

In America, apparently the most conservative of Western nations, you will frequently find religious displays in schools with every religion BUT Christianity.

Apparently?

In the far-less-conservative but relatively similar nation of Canada, I cannot remember a single instance of islam or any non-christian religion being mentioned in any of my grade- or high-school classes beyond History (where the focus was almost entirely on european culture), while I can specifically remember at least two dozen christian-themed arts, crafts (and etc.) that were assigned as group activities.

So, what's the source for your conclusion, given that it's not personal experience and probably not fact?

Besides which, even if Christianity is stupid, it is our heritage and it has shaped Western society. We can't ignore our heritage.

And to think you just spent so much time trying to tell us that you aren't stupid, only to say something like that.

If:
Christianity is Stupid
&
Christianity is Our Heritage
&
We can't ignore Our Heritage
Then:
Your (fully intelligent) argument is: "you can't ignore my stupidity."

(After all, you must be smart if teachers can trick you into doing busywork for them.)

I'm assuming that by "Our", you mean "British people's".
Guess who also has a stupid religious heritage?
British people who are muslims!

Your little culture war is a Battle of the Stupids, and you're on Team Stupid.

How much sick Christian bullshit do you see? How much sick Muslim bullshit?

Approximately equal amounts, leaning towards christianity simply because they outnumber muslims approximately 2-to-1 and most of them live in the west (where I also live), as opposed to the mid-east (where I do not live).

I do hear about muslim stupidity, however, on the news and occasionally in myriad posts whining about how their hats are going to destroy the superior christian ethos that is the basis of civilization.

So, in that regard, christianity totally wins the "Act Like A Douchebag To Mechagodzilla" award.

Christianity hasn't achieved omnipresence - it is a regular subject of ridicule (unlike Islam, in public).

I don't think you understand what omnipresence means.

In theory you are correct, but in practice Christianity is rarely followed literally and has "moved on". Islam today is where Christianity was a thousand years ago.

Bullshit. Christianity hasn't progressed an inch since the bible was written by several hundred seperate authors.

The difference comes from more people ignoring some biblical laws in favor of a half-assed pseudosecularism.

The effects of the religion are still the same. If britain has laws against marijuana and same-sex marriage (which it does), that's the result of religious influence, given that there is no legitimate secular argument against either.

Why don't we have christian suicide bombers?
Because they've already won.

(As if suicide bombing is really that huge of a problem anyways. It's vastly overhyped by fearmongery people such as yourself.
The average person is more likely to die from shark bites than from islam.)

Also, have you ever read the Qu'ran? It's a much more evil, violent and xenophobic book than the Bible. It tells the same stories, yes, but the interpretation of those events is very different between the two. Perhaps this is in part why Christianity has modernised but Islam has not - Christianity allows room for progress.

Bullshit, again.
I've read both the bible and the qu'ran, and guess what?

The bible contains almost twice as many cruel and/or violent passages. 857 compared to 488.

The only difference between the two is that the bible is a longer book so the violence is spread out, while the qu'ran is short and extremely repetitive.

The messages about the mandatory killing of gays, people of other religions and etc. are fundamentally identical.
Christianity itself hasn't been "modernized" in the slightest, unless you mean translating the bible to english and painting jesus in whiteface.

The only difference between the two is that people in western society are largely forced to be (pseudo)secular in the day-to-day.
But, obviously, that doesn't mean they are loveably inoffensive and have no undue sway in public matters!
You'd have to be quite the naif to make that claim.

In your case, you've confused secularism with some sort of arbitrarily imposed atheism; and your complaints are so petty that it cheapens the entire notion of secular society in the first place. Paraphrasing:

"Christians don't do stupid things and the stupid things they do do are awesome for everyone."

"Muslims don't eat pork, and that is killing our society as a whole."

Damn liberals with their double standards!

So what do you propose? Surrender? Do nothing?

Yes, obviously I want surrender, dummy.

Because that's the only option beyond your brilliant "Respect My Stupidity" plan.

Please.

I've already told you what I propose:

Stop being a hypocrite and start disparaging equally stupid people equally. Beginning with yourself.

 

[CptStern]

ooohh this is getting good

<munch munch>

 

[JNightshade]

ooohh this is getting good

<munch munch>

STOP EATING MY FOOT D:

 

[jverne]

STOP EATING MY FOOT D:

Bee QUIET and pass me the ketchup!

 

[CptStern]

STOP EATING MY FOOT D:

<munch munch ...ewww ..ptui!> cut you're freakin nails you animal!!! <munch munch>

 

[Asknoone]

Stay ontopic.

 

[99.vikram]

How about Salmon Rushdie (who was shot dead), the fallout from the Mohammed cartoons and that's just off the top of my head?

News Flash: Rushdie is still alive!!!

 

[Ome_Vince]

He's also forgetting how the Turks beat up the Swiss soccer team when they got eliminated from the World Cup 2006
I guess that makes all muslims evil teh pwn

 

[Tyguy]

Wait, isnt securlism the stuff that makes you sleepy?