Shadow bug still existent

[eth8686]

I was watching the new trainstation bink (for the 300th time :dork: ) and I noticed something wrong.

Now, I follow these forums quite actively and I don't believe this has been discussed, but if it has the mods can feel free to delete it.

I've attached two pictures, one shows the shadow on top of a shadow bug that has been with us for a LONG time now, and the other shows where a part of a shadow disappears!

I kind of hoped that the Valve team would have fixed that shadow-on-shadow bug!

 

[Lobster]

this isnt a bug, and it wont be fixed, it has been discussed over and over again, but still people cant grasp the basic fact that HL2 does not use dynamic shaddows, or shaddow occlusion, get over it.

 

[Gorgon]

Yeah, I think they fixed it by now, All the vids we ve seen so far are Old and full of noticeable bugs.

 

[eth8686]

What I really can't grasp is that this game has been in development for 6 years now and they still haven't been able to mend this eyesore? It does not seem like a task that is going to take more than 6 years to work out?

"It can't be done" is not an excuse, because it can.

 

[SnowBall]

this isnt a bug, and it wont be fixed, it has been discussed over and over again, but still people cant grasp the basic fact that HL2 does not use dynamic shaddows, or shaddow occlusion, get over it.

The shadows are dynamic, they just arent light sourced.

 

[mannyfresh027]

Yeah, I think they fixed it by now, All the vids we ve seen so far are Old and full of noticeable bugs.

its not fixed and it cant be fixed unless they do full real time dynamic lighting like Doom 3 has, which wont happen in HL2 because a) it would be a lot of work to change it b) it takes a lot of computer power

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

What I really can't grasp is that this game has been in development for 6 years now and they still haven't been able to mend this eyesore? It does not seem like a task that is going to take more than 6 years to work out?

"It can't be done" is not an excuse, because it can.

Oh, how about you go make a game yourself, and come back in 6 years, it better be better than half-life 2 or I'm going to nitpick!

 

[Lobster]

The shadows are dynamic, they just arent light sourced.

True enough, but some people on here seem to think stencil shaddows are the only dynamic shaddows in existance, i dont even think you can have occlusion on soft shaddows using the method valve use, carmack was discussing the problems with stencil shaddows, and there next engine will be using a balance between the two methods, which "looks" like soft shaddow but isnt, its a problem for alot of games, i just wish people would stop being so obsessed with shaddow, when judging graphics :O

(not aimed at this thread, just generaly)

 

[Feath]

"It can't be done" is not an excuse, because it can.

But "it's not worth the effort" is an excuse. I don't think it looks THAT bad, it's not a show stopping bug.

And who knows, this may be the last bug they managed to fix.

 

[sHaDdoW]

i thought you was talking about me lol

 

[Gorgon]

its not fixed and it cant be fixed unless they do full real time dynamic lighting like Doom 3 has, which wont happen in HL2 because a) it would be a lot of work to change it b) it takes a lot of computer power

Then what the hell they been doing for the last 5 years ? :dork:

 

[mannyfresh027]

What I really can't grasp is that this game has been in development for 6 years now and they still haven't been able to mend this eyesore? It does not seem like a task that is going to take more than 6 years to work out?

"It can't be done" is not an excuse, because it can.

the only game that doesnt do this right now is doom3, and its nearly impossible to play the slow single player game with decent fps on any resolution above 640x480. fixing it would require a) a lot more time b) much more powerful computers

 

[Varsity]

Can't they just subtract overlapping shadow value to keep it uniform?

 

[mannyfresh027]

Then what the hell they been doing for the last 5 years ? :dork:

if they had made it look like doom 3 than nobody would get over 30FPS in online multiplayer. doom 3 can handle it because a) single player is extremely slow, with very few enemies b) multiplayer sucks, had 4 player max, and nobody plays it. and still, doom 3 performs terribly on anything but the lowest resolutions.

 

[eth8686]

Oh, how about you go make a game yourself, and come back in 6 years, it better be better than half-life 2 or I'm going to nitpick!

Did I touch a nerve there? I'm sorry if my post seemed disrespectful, because it was not meant in that way. I am fully aware of the huga amount's of work that Valve have put into Source and what a fantastic thing it is.

All I am saying is that they could have maybe spent a month or two in early developement to work out a way to fix this or at least hide it to some extent.

This is coming from an experienced programmer and hobby game engine developer, just so you know.

 

[poseyjmac]

the only game that doesnt do this right now is doom3, and its nearly impossible to play the slow single player game with decent fps on any resolution above 640x480.

maybe on your computer!

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

This is coming from an experienced programmer and hobby game engine developer, just so you know.

Wow you just figured out a mod you could do for hl2....gj

 

[DarkStar]

Can't they just subtract overlapping shadow value to keep it uniform?

Yeah.....that's what I said in a similar thread a LOOOONG time ago. The general consenus was that it just isn't that simple. Personally, I think it looks pretty awful, but if its really that hard to fix then I only have one thing to say:

meh.

 

[Lobster]

Then what the hell they been doing for the last 5 years ? :dork:

So your saying your not acctully interested in the game as a whole, you just want nice shaddows? you sad little man you.

 

[Pitbul]

its not that bad of a "bug". i mean seriously when you have a headcrab trying to violate your anally, and combine shooting at you, while mines slowly rolling towards you your not suddenly out of the blue stop everything and say "O...M...G...WTF??@?@?!!!?! look AT THOSE!!!! ABSOLUTELY HORRENDUS SHADOWS!!!! ARG!!!!! ITS GONA GIVE ME A HURNEYA!!!...

 

[Feath]

Yeah.....that's what I said in a similar thread a LOOOONG time ago. The general consenus was that it just isn't that simple. Personally, I think it looks pretty awful, but if its really that hard to fix then I only have one thing to say:

meh.

It's not that simply because what happens if something only partly overlaps.

 

[lans]

I'd email valve - but I'm guessing the binks are still old (before E3 material), and we emailed them this bug later on.

I suggest watching the apartment's bink though (whenever it comes out) - that is truly representative of current game status (as it shows a female instead of the lombardi person) - if the problem is in that - then yes the bug has not been fixed.

I'm guessing valve has not fixed the bug - although it doesn't look very bad - but Jeez valve should've fixed it by now.

Also, notice how they've stupidly used human shadows and cut the bench and chair shadows in the trainstation video and haven't fix overlaping shadows of physically simulated object on physically simulated object. They should have cut the shadows of one of the physically simulated object so that the overlaping bug doesn't appear and kept the overlaping bug instead for the human on bench. At least that would've made it look slightly better.

 

[Letters]

If those things aren't fixed, that's completely stupid. I don't think Valve is stupid... shadow through a table? Come on... you can't say that that won't be addressed...

 

[mannyfresh027]

i have a very good computer and doom3 runs terribly compared to counter strike source doom3 is still acceptable, but if i got those fps and low resolution on CS:S, i'd be very disappointed.

 

[DarkStar]

the only game that doesnt do this right now is doom3, and its nearly impossible to play the slow single player game with decent fps on any resolution above 640x480. fixing it would require a) a lot more time b) much more powerful computers

A) Far Cry did not have this problem.

B) I play Doom 3 at 1200x1024 at a pretty constant 60 FPS.

 

[Democritus]

Is there anyway to check its status in CS: Source?

 

[Gorgon]

if they had made it look like doom 3 than nobody would get over 30FPS in online multiplayer. doom 3 can handle it because a) single player is extremely slow, with very few enemies b) multiplayer sucks, had 4 player max, and nobody plays it. and still, doom 3 performs terribly on anything but the lowest resolutions.

That is not what I heard. I heard Doom3 kikd ass cause it run so well on the latest hardware. you can get over 60fps with all settings ON plus 1024x768 res.

That is not a reason m8, Valve made an awsome game, but they are really slow developers. :|

 

[mannyfresh027]

Is there anyway to check its status in CS: Source?

yeah, its got the same problem

 

[lans]

its not that bad of a "bug". i mean seriously when you have a headcrab trying to violate your anally, and combine shooting at you, while mines slowly rolling towards you your not suddenly out of the blue stop everything and say "O...M...G...WTF??@?@?!!!?! look AT THOSE!!!! ABSOLUTELY HORRENDUS SHADOWS!!!! ARG!!!!! ITS GONA GIVE ME A HURNEYA!!!...

I know, but FFS, if valve's engine does support proper kind of shadowing I don't mind my FPS dropping like a stone in some huge place like the trainstation where bugs like these are most obvious (as there is no action happening), and look like a bad scar on what is otherwise a polished product.

 

[kaf11]

seriously, get over a few shadow problems. the game looks incredible, and will have amazing gameplay. HL1 didnt have a fancy shadow sysyem, and was still a better game than doom 3. there, i said it.

 

[Democritus]

yeah, its got the same problem

Thanks. That sucks. Not a show stopper, but still unfortunate.

 

[Lobster]

A) Far Cry did not have this problem.

B) I play Doom 3 at 1200x1024 at a pretty constant 60 FPS.

Doom 3 Far Cry Deus Ex 2, use stencil shadows, they have perfect occlusion but the edges are solid and ultimately use alot of proccessing power depending on how many you use.

Soft shadows look alot better in themselves but have crappy occlusion, but they use alot less power and are better than having no shadows at all on moving objects.

 

[the_prodigy]

The bug IS there presently in CS:S and will be there in HL2 as well. Oh well, It's not all that bad.

 

[Gorgon]

The best think right now, is to email valve about this.

 

[lans]

seriously, get over a few shadow problems. the game looks incredible, and will have amazing gameplay. HL1 didnt have a fancy shadow sysyem, and was still a better game than doom 3. there, i said it.

Maybe so. But this has nothing to do with gameplay.

Valve boasts it's source engine - and it's been highly anticipated. But if it's not able to do things properly which even current genration engines like the unreal 2 engine (for splinter cell) can do, and obviously the D3, Cryengine and x-ray engine excel at, then the source engine is going to lose in the long run. It does have other feartures that more than compensate - but the primitive shadowing will stand out a lot as a sour thorn.

 

[Petabyte]

Maybe so. But this has nothing to do with gameplay.

Valve boasts it's source engine - and it's been highly anticipated. But if it's not able to do things properly which even current genration engines like the unreal 2 engine (for splinter cell) can do, and obviously the D3, Cryengine and x-ray engine excel at, then the source engine is going to lose in the long run. It does have other feartures that more than compensate - but the primitive shadowing will stand out a lot as a sour thorn.

Why are you being so negative? They said they would updade the engine twords the DirectX 10 release. And even if they don't, you could mod it it (tm)

 

[Democritus]

Hmm. So they can do multi-level translucency, water reflection and refraction in fog, and create characters out of water, but not keep a box's shadow from showing beneath a table? Are shadows that much harder than the rest of that crap? (I have no idea).

 

[mannyfresh027]

well, it would be fairly easy to do, but it would take a lot of rendering power, and the advantage of better looking shadows (which really wouldn't be much better looking) would be nullified by the fact that the game runs much slower.

 

[lans]

Why are you being so negative? They said they would updade the engine twords the DirectX 10 release. And even if they don't, you could mod it it (tm)

I'm being realistic. Valve's delays has made them reach a point where they are going to debut their engine after D3, far cry, e.t.c. Carmack already has lines of developers running after his engine just because of the lighting/shadowing alone - I assure you that.

 

[RomeoJGuy]

People:

This is not a bug, it is merely an after-effect of Valve choosing to use light maps for shadows. Unless they change the technique used to cast shadows there will be no way to mend this eyesore.

Furthermore the likelyhood of them changing the current system is perposterous. A Unified Lighting System is out of question due to the obvious fact that the Source engine needs to support shadows in extremely detailed outdoor environments. To impose such a demanding lighting system would cause even the most powerful systems to be taxed. Do you want to play hl2 at 15-20 fps like Doom 3 or do you want a steady 60 fps? I hope this answers the questions and puts everything in perspective for everyone.

PS: Dont flame me Ok Thanks Bye.