Should same sex marriages be legal?

[OCybrManO]

A gay friend of mine hit on me... and there was no thought needed to say "No thanks." I'm not disgusted by men, but I don't think about handsome guys in the way that I think about beautiful women. It's not my bag, baby! That doesn't mean that I can't support their decisions or fight for their rights. I'd do that for anyone (unless they happen to be trying to harm someone else, like that "genocidal f***head" Hitler... if so, they're on their own) even if they wouldn't do the same for me when I'm in a similar situation.

 

[Apos]

Even the Bible doesn't give any reasons for why sodomy is immoral (or, for that matter, why eating pork or shellfish is immoral: a question our friend here is still carefully dodging). Moral claims without reasons are empty and dangerous.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I don't understand the thinking behind the people who say homosexual couples are wrong for loving eachother. Are you saying they're kidding themselves, or they should kid themselves?

 

[-TaNaKa-]

Yes and no.

No in the way like, a man should be with a woman, normal cycle of nature.
And yes, in the way of freedom. If i had to choose, NO.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Neither views are overlooked as all voice their opinions. The 'standard' for same sex marriages will probably be determined by the popular opinion. You can't say someone with this opinion doesn't or shouldn't count.

It's already been extensively pointed out how the 'popular opinion' basis is flawed, but I'd like to be absolutely clear on this.

I know the whole cliche of 'mention nazis in a debate' is stupid. But I really do think that if the majority were awarded priviliges for the sole reason that they are the majority, we'd see a lot more of that sort of intolerance being allowed.

The Constitution, along with every aspect of of the American legal system, was meant to be secular so that no religion could interfere with another. So that protestants can't bully catholics, catholics can't bully protestants, and so that germans can't bully jews.

If any religion is allowed to de-secularize the constitution, then it destroys the entire concept.

All religions inherently contradict each other. If we wrote every literal interpretation of the religious texts or traditions of every religion into the american justice system, the result would be such a huge, twisted mess of laws, where it would be simultaneously illegal to both do and not do some things.

There are only two ways, therefore, to have total religious freedom and equality:
-Remove all purely religious aspects from the justice system.
-Completely destroy the justice system and have a free-for-all of each religon's laws versus each other religion's laws.

Of, course, there are shades of grey between those two extremes. However, I think it's clear that every part of the legal system which still favours one religion over another is one step back from a perfect freedom.

And, last time I checked, America was not built on the promise of being "mostly free" or "kinda free, but with exceptions".

And don't bring in the 'Criminals' aren't free though and that's an exception' point, please.
Criminals are treated badly because a criminal is, basically, someone who removes another person's freedoms, either through physical, financial, or psychological harm.

A group who support restrictions or a way of life shouldn't stop their opinion just because the people with the opposite viewpoint feel it's unfair or limiting. Standards are generally or loosely based on majority.

Actually, that point is entirely wrong. The american legal system is designed to be universal. The entire basis of the american concept of freedom is based on the exact opposite of your argument here:

A group who supports restrictions or a way of life should stop their opinions from being made into universal law exactly because the people with the opposite viewpoint feel it's unfair or limiting.
Universal standards are generally or loosely based on secular logic.

That's how it works. And here's why:

Christian views are not null and neither are anyone elses.

Of course not. But justice must treat all people as religiously, racially and otherwise neutral. The whole "justice wears a blindfold" thing, remember?

In order to stop predjudice, justice must shut out all opinion that is not based on logic. This secularisation is represented by a bilndfold over her eyes. In her one hand, she carries a scale, which represents logic: the weighing and comparing of tangible facts. In her other hand, she carries a sword, representative the punishment directed towards those who remove freedom (criminals).

The point is that the law cannot be controled by the majority, the minority, or anyone. It is controled only by facts, by evidence and by the preservation of religious and all other harmless freedoms.

The removal of one religion's freedoms for no secular reason destroys equality. And a gay marriage ban doesn't just remove one religion's freedoms. It removes freedom from every single person in america, religious or otherwise, who believes that gays are equal.
It would be proof that the majority has no intrest in american-style freedom and the protection of minorites of any sort.

I don't dislike gays but I disagree with what they do and believe. It is not about them being inferior. My Mom's cousin anounced he was gay a few years ago. I didn't change the way I viewed him.

Okay, so the only reason you want to ban gay marriage is that you "disagree with what they do and believe."

But here's a kicker: I disagree with what you do, and what you believe too. If everyone could stop someone from pursuing happiness just because they want to, then freedom would be dead.

I'd pass laws against your religion. You'd pass laws against my religion, and muslims would pass laws against both our religions.

It doesn't matter how much you disagree. The entire basis of america is that you must agree to disagree on matters of faith.

If you disagree with the gay lifestyle, then don't be gay. Isn't it enough that you that you are fulfilling your beliefs?

You can't pass laws against someone just because you are different from them.

If the standard is that being gay and same sex marriages are immoral then so be it.

The majority standard in most islamic countries is that christianity is immoral too. Although islamic peoples choose to agree to disagree and keep both sides happy, a select few of them decided to make that dislike into law, said "so be it," and we had september 11th.

You will have to live with it. If the standard changes and laws change to allow for same sex marriages then I will have to live with it. Either way we both can keep our opinions and if we wish, voice them.

Remove the "if the standard changes" from that, and you've got it spot on. The standard already changed when the constitution was written so many years ago. Some people just haven't noticed yet.

For many, the issue hinges on the question of whether homosexuality is a choice or an innate characteristic with which people are born. For those who say being gay is a choice, they will not agree with that analogy [that gays are treated inequal like blacks were] as they see it as a moral issue and not prejudice. Only those who view being gay as a characteristic you are born with may agree with your statement.

It doesn't matter if gays choose to be gay or are born gay. It makes absolutely no difference.

Here's a better analogy that fits both examples:

If people are born gay, then laws against gays are like laws saying blacks aren't allowed.

If people choose to be gay, then laws against gays are like laws against people who are christian by choice or by conversion.

Either way, such laws would be very wrong.

The reason I say may is because blacks were treated very poorly and had no rights as a person. This is far from the same issue. Gays are pushing for 'rights' that allow them for the same privilages and status that marriage has. This is hardly human rights.

On the contrary: Gays are human. They want rights. It's human rights.

They want to be the same! They want equality! Yet you describe it like they're being unreasonable.
"Those pushy gays want 'rights'."

Gays would like to be equal to every other human on earth by having the right to marry. and you oppose them.

Look at what you wrote:

The reason I say may is because blacks were treated very poorly and had no rights as a person. This is far from the same issue.

"Gays aren't treated bad like blacks were, so they don't deserve equality!"
Last time I checked, you don't need to be 'hazed' with hundreds of years of slavery and oppression before Uncle Sam hands out freedom.
This is all but exactly the same issue!

Since religion is a set of beliefs, values, and practices how can they not consider or debate holding the moral standard over giving gay's marriage rights, as our country views being gay as immoral.

I am going to be extremely blunt here:
Your morals are not worth shit to anyone who isn't Christian.
It sounds harsh, and it sounds mean, and I'm sure that you're probably angry right now because of what I just said.
You must understand that it is a basic fact.

You must accept that no matter how much you love your religion, and no matter how much you will follow it's teachings, you can't turn a secular law based on facts into a christian law based on faith without pissing off every minority on the face of god's green earth.

The founding fathers knew that fact, because America was founded in part on the prevention of religious intolerance. The pilgrims came to America in order to escape the oppression of a religious majority that decided that the way they worshipped god wasn't 'moral' enough. Now you are trying to pass laws against gays because they aren't 'moral' enough in the eyes of the majority.

Remember that Christianity started as one man preaching to a small few. If your "majority rules" strategy were applied then, your religion might have been obliterated by the Romans. In fact, it almost was.

Morality is not dependant on religion. Many who are not religious hold similar morals. And the traditional family does not jive with the ideals of gay's.

I seriously hope we do not loosen or loose our definitions of what is right and wrong any longer, which is happening every place I look. If we loose our morals and if we loose our direction then our society will imbody everything I see evolution as, pointless existance without a care for purpose or life.

While I am accepting, I am not passive and I do not believe it's wise to wave my beliefs and values. I try to stand up for what I believe.

While it is true that morality is dependent on logic, your position here is, well, illogical.

How does letting gays be equal force you to loosen your definition of right and wrong?
How can you make society evolve by keeping everything the same?

All that can come from this "societal evolution" you put forward is a nation composed soley of christians.
But that's not America.

America is about a diversity of beliefs, where you can believe what you want, and have your right to believe protected by law. Where people could come in and have total freedom in exchange for just one simple rule: Don't stop other people from being free too.

America started as a haven where people with different interpretations of the bible could be free and treated as equals. Then people of entirely different religions came to be free and equal.
Then it became a place where people of entirely different races could be free and treated as equals.
Soon, I hope, people with entirely different sexual preferences will be able to be free and equal too.

That's how society is evolving.

Allowing gays to marry in no way makes you have to accept them more. Sure, everyone would be happier if you could accept them, but you're still free to disapprove of gays and you're still free to believe that they have no place in God's plan.

But why, in this continent of religious freedoms, should your Christian belief be made into a secular law?

The reason that things that contradict your idea of morality are "happening every place you look" is because more and more freedoms are being allowed, and people are enjoying those freedoms.

No matter how scary the people around you are acting, no matter how 'immoral' they are in your eyes, no matter how 'godless' and 'backwards', they can't hurt you.
As long as we are free to believe in whatever you want, Christianity will never die.
So what are you afraid of?

Do you honestly think your faith can be destroyed so easilly?
Would you to give up Jesus as your saviour over something as minor as a gay being married?

If the answer is 'no', which I am certain it is, then you aren't "waiving your beliefs". And you have no reason whatsoever to ban these people's happiness.

It's illogical to defend yourself against a threat that does not exist.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

My 15-minute limit is up, so...

As long as we are free to believe in whatever you want, Christianity will never die.

Before anyone jumps on the typo, that should have been written as:
As long as we are free to believe in whatever we want, Christianity will never die.

Whoops.

 

[CptStern]

excellent summation of everything that's been said in this thread, Mecha; I'm just glad we're on the same side ideologically

 

[Sprafa]

That deserves sig quote.

Shame mine is full :| Won't allow me anymore because of the 600 caratcher limit (including links)

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'll jump in for a quicky.

How can you seperate opinion from religious beliefs? You can't. Saying there is a seperation of Church and State is absurd. This may go off-topic, but I have and will argue that agnosticism and atheism is a religious belief system. Therefore, your beliefs are affecting the foundation of our country. Believing that same-sex marriage is to be allowed is clearly linked to your belief system. However, you should not say that I can't voice my beliefs about same-sex marriage (in governmental policy) while you go right ahead and voice your opinion.

There is no such thing as seperation of Church and State. I argue it is merely an illusion. While government may not openly endorse a religion, it is still heavily affected by a belief system.

There's a few things wrong with that argument, but here's the big one: Secular and Atheist are not the same thing.

Secular things are worldly things. They are science, and logic. Secular things do not negate religion. Your computer, as an example, is a secular object, It's not powered by a cherub, or by magic or something else reliant on faith. It is a device built by man in order to make life work more smoothly. It can be used by a christian guy, such as yourself, or by people of any religion if they want to. Secular things are basically religion-neutral.

Atheism, on the other hand, is secularism to the exclusion of religion. If the computer automatically deleted all material pertaining to religion from it's hard drive, then it would be atheistic. Almost nothing in life is atheistic. Only Atheist's beliefs really.

The legal system, like a computer, was built by man for a secular purpose: to stop people from hurting each other. If the legal system contained laws that excluded religious people or banned religion then it would be atheistic.

Thus, the legal system is a religion-neutral device designed, essentially, to apply to all religions equally. And, since religions vary so much in matters of faith, the only things that everyone can agree on are secular things, since secular things treat everyone equally. Including atheists.

That is why the legal system is a secular domain. If it weren't, there'd be a religious free-for-all.

Now, the reason why gay marriage should be allowed is not at all because atheists believe it should be.
It is because there is no secular reason not to allow it.

If there were proof that gay marriage was a danger to every religion, including the ones that support gays, then we'd have to ban it. But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I don't burn homosexuals at a stake. I don't make snide comments at them. I don't make them drink at different fountains. They have the right to own property. What human rights are they lacking? Govermental benefits? Last time I checked governmental benefits (ie tax breaks) is not consider a human right issue.

It is when everyone else gets them.

If those tax breaks were the fountain in your example, you're not just "making them drink at a different fountain". You're actually saying "because you are gay, you get no fountains at all".

Whatever thier motivation, the government is essentially paying married couples not to be gay. I'd call that discriminatory.

You remove beliefs from democracy and you no longer have democracy.

Well, duh. Of course we can't exist without beliefs. I'll adress that point along with the next quote:

Thinking outside one's belief system is impossible which is the reason why I think the seperation of Church and State is false. How can you logically decide something when the logic is founded on your ideaologies?

Anyways, do you really expect the majority of the US population to not use their beliefs when they vote. If they could seperate their beliefs, that is asking for too much.

In order for democracy to work, the law doesn't control the beliefs that religions can't agree on. It only controls the secular aspects of belief that are universal. That way, all religions are represented equally within the democracy.

There is no secular reason for why gays should not marry, therefore law cannot ban gay marriage, but it cannot force you to accept them either.

Democracy breaks down when it favours some over others.

People might not be able to seperate thier beilefs from their vote but, at the same time, the candidates must respect secular law, in order to prevent to problems of a de-secularized law which I described to Asus in my last posts.

That's why Bush's attemopts to merge church and state through things like the limitations on stem cell research and the gay marriage ban are reprehensible. Church and state are meant to remain seperate so that the votes will not affect the law. Bush's policies are apparently trying to change all that just to grab christian support. Kerry, on the other hand, does not personally believe in these things. But he is responsible in the fact that there is no secular reason to stop them.

(Future me: I think we may regret bringing politics into this. )

u guys, gay sex marriages are just gay now drop it, no man should be married to another man thats just messed up

You guys, gay marriage is against God and that is sin. It is bad.

What happened to the merc who didn't suck ass?

NO... NO.. and NO!

i have nothing against gays, but its not right.. its not normal and its not the way its supposed to be! its like marrying your sister! ITS WRONG!

i know some gay people, and i have nothing against them, what they do is up to them.. but legal marrage? no !! no !! nooooooo

...and was there ever a scully who didn't either? Logic, people! Logic!

I think we have strayed from the topic a little. let me sum up what I believe.

I believe that Homosexuality is wrong.
The bible says that it is wrong.
I believe the term marriage is a sacred unity between 1 man and one woman. And it has been since the begingin of this country.
I do believe that gay people have the right to make their own choices and should not be without some benifits that any human should have.

good, good, good, this all checks out. Moving on...

However I disagree with calling it marriage as I believe 2 gay people can not make that covinent under willfull trnsgression of what Gos has said.

Call it what you want but in my opinoin they shouldn't call it marriage.

Whoa, stop there. Dang, and it was going so well up until now.
No, you can't choose how gays practice thier religion.
It doesn't matter what God said in that respect.

Can you give me one good secular reason why the word 'marriage' should be outlawed for gays but not for jews, muslims, atheists and countless others?

 

[CptStern]

quote of the day:

"What happened to the merc who didn't suck ass?"

was there ever a time he didnt ...suck ass? :E

 

[Yakuza]

People who quote scripture are lazy in their responsibility as humans. We are the only species on this planet that is blessed with sentience.

They profess that "Here is the word of God, read and memorize, but do not think or consider. Shame upon those who question it. Wrath upon those who reason."

Isaiah 1
18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
says the LORD .

Proverbs 6:6
Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise!

Jeremiah 5:1
"Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem, look around and consider, search through her squares. If you can find but one person who deals honestly and seeks the truth, I will forgive this city.

Mark 4:24
"Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you–and even more.

Luke 12:24
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!

Acts 20:24
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me–the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.

Remember, a few hundred years ago, philosophers were put to death as heretics for thinking outside The Book.

You can't reason with a bible thumper, for his answer will always be to thump the bible. He has all the reasons he wants and needs. You're reasoning means nothing, because the Bible is the ultimate reason to everything.

So let me get this staright, If I tried to reason with a you about the existence of atoms it would be unreasonable of you to look in a science book?

And any time the Bible does not stand to reason, the reason is, "God works in mysterious ways." The dramatic way of saying "I don't know the reason, and I don't care."

And how many times has science been left stunded when somthing happened, that just shouldn't have happened. Like people with cancer who all of the sudden dont have it anymore, or the person who suffers a heart attack and is cliniclay dead for several minutes only to come back to life without a hint of braindamage.

So how does science stand to reason when its questions can not be answered.

Quoting the Bible is the equivalent of answering a question with "Because." or "It just is."

"Why should we ban gay marriage?"
"Because."

"Why is gay marriage bad?"
"It just is."

Exact same reasoning, exact same content, exact same validity.

have I said Because or, it just is? No.

 

[CptStern]

yakuza check your post ...it doesnt make sense ....did you misquote or something?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Yea, I was kinda confused too.

 

[CptStern]

btw 2 more provinces in canada now allow gay marriages! They passed with overwhelming support. CA-NA-DA! CA-NA-DA! (chant like homer's U-S-A) yay! manitoba and Nova Scotia!

 

[Yakuza]

sorry, I hit the submit button by mistake.

 

[Neutrino]

btw 2 more provinces in canada now allow gay marriages! They passed with overwhelming support. CA-NA-DA! CA-NA-DA! (chant like homer's U-S-A) yay! manitoba and Nova Scotia!

You got a spare bedroom by chance? Canada is sounding better and better.

 

[Asuka]

Iv always been against same sex marriages. Its not normal its not right. We are humens we should act like it. Really dislike all this homesexual stuff going on in the world. Its disgusting. Thats my opinion.

 

[Neutrino]

We are humens we should act like it.

Oh? What exactly do humans act like?

 

[Asuka]

Oh? What exactly do humans act like?

Ya i agree. Most humens act like animals anyway. We dont need more problems.

 

[Neutrino]

Ya i agree. Most humens act like animals anyway. We dont need more problems.

No, you do not agree. I asked how exactly are human suppose to act?

That statement made no sense, which is what I was pointing out. Saying "We are humans, we should act like it" isn't any kind of argument. In fact is supports the idea of gays. Gays are humans and they are gay, thus to be gay is one aspect of acting like a human. Anything a human does is in fact "acting like a human".

I think what you meant when saying that was, "We are humans, everyone should act like I think they should." That was what you really meant wasn't it?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Iv always been against same sex marriages. Its not normal its not right. We are humens we should act like it. Really dislike all this homesexual stuff going on in the world. Its disgusting. Thats my opinion.

Ya i agree. Most humens act like animals anyway. We dont need more problems.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why american law requires logic.

It would be awesome to see someone try that argument in front of the supreme court.

Judge: So, why do you want to ammend the constitution to include discrimination?

Raziel: As a humens, Iv dislike all this homosexual stuff in the world.

Judge: You are hereby sentenced to life imprisonment with no possibility of parole!

 

[Asuka]

No, you do not agree. I asked how exactly are human suppose to act?

That statement made no sense, which is what I was pointing out. Saying "We are humans, we should act like it" isn't any kind of argument. In fact is supports the idea of gays. Gays are humans and they are gay, thus to be gay is one aspect of acting like a human. Anything a human does is in fact "acting like a human".

I think what you meant when saying that was, "We are humans, we should act like I think we should act."

By saying "We are humans, we should act like it" I meant we arnt animals, we can reason. Being gay is not being normal. Gay people cant have children, and they cause other problems. Men trying to be female etc. Another problem with gay marriages is what if they want to adopt a kid? You cant force that kid to wake up and see his 2 fathers or 2 mothers or even worse a guy that looks like a female and other way around. If i was put in that kind of situation i wouldnt even look at my parents anymore. I wouldnt treat them like my parents i wouldnt care they are my parents. They mean nothing to me and thats that. Its simple as that. We all feel we are born with natural rights. Meaning natures given rights. What kind of right is to be able to "like" your own gender? Does that make any sense? Its disgusting and wrong. It shouldnt be allowed. It causes diseases and more problems. What if they wanted to have a kid, but not adopt it but have it done by takeing sperm from a random guy and havning it done that way. The kid wont have a father or mother. Its just sick/not normal simple as that.

 

[Phisionary]

By saying "We are humans, we should act like it" I meant we arnt animals, we can reason. Being gay is not being normal. Gay people cant have children, and they cause other problems. Men trying to be female etc. Another problem with gay marriages is what if they want to adopt a kid? You cant force that kid to wake up and see his 2 fathers or 2 mothers or even worse a guy that looks like a female and other way around. If i was put in that kind of situation i wouldnt even look at my parents anymore. I wouldnt treat them like my parents i wouldnt care they are my parents. They mean nothing to me and thats that. Its simple as that. We all feel we are born with natural rights. Meaning natures given rights. What kind of right is to be able to "like" your own gender? Does that make any sense? Its disgusting and wrong. It shouldnt be allowed. It causes diseases and more problems. What if they wanted to have a kid, but not adopt it but have it done by takeing sperm from a random guy and havning it done that way. The kid wont have a father or mother. Its just sick/not normal simple as that.

How stupid, ignorant, and hateful you are..

 

[Sprafa]

How stupid, ignorant, and hateful you are..

Actually he does have a point.

 

[Asuka]

Actually he does have a point.

At least someone sees what im saying.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Why does it matter if it is not like nature intended? I dont think nature intended us to have cars, PCs, nuclear weapons and sush either, but it still dosent stop us from getting all that.

 

[Asuka]

Why does it matter if it is not like nature intended? I dont think nature intended us to have cars, PCs, nuclear weapons and sush either, but it still dosent stop us from getting all that.

It matters because its not right. Cars/pcs/nuclear tech. etc That mostly benefits us. Havning gay people or being gay doesnt. If gay people have a child you take away from his rights. Is that right? He is now living in a unnatural sick abnormal world.

 

[Sprafa]

At least someone sees what im saying.

Your worded it in a way that it seems quite offensive. "It's just not normal".

What is normal ? Why should we all comply with your rules of normality ?

The best thing you could do is try to understand why these people want to have kids and why they want to be like they are.

It matters because its not right. Cars/pcs/nuclear tech. etc That mostly benefits us. Havning gay people or being gay doesnt. If gay people have a child you take away from his rights. Is that right? He is now living in a unnatural sick abnormal world.

What if he loves having gay parents ? it's not a sick abnormal world, you see it that way. Who said homosexuality doesn't benefits us ?

 

[Asuka]

Your worded it in a way that it seems quite offensive. "It's just not normal".

What is normal ? Why should we all comply with your rules of normality ?

The best thing you could do is try to understand why these people want to have kids and why they want to be like they are.

Read what i wrote above. If they have children they are taking away from these kids. They have no choce now but to live with "Gay" people. What kid of world is that being born ether without a father or mother. Being born with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. Being born with men dressed as females. Sex changes all that stuff. Tell me thats normal, tell me how the kid will feel.

 

[NeLi]

It matters because its not right. Cars/pcs/nuclear tech. etc That mostly benefits us. Havning gay people or being gay doesnt. If gay people have a child you take away from his rights. Is that right? He is now living in a unnatural sick abnormal world.

I honestly don't believe that children will grow up to automatically like men instead of females if they're raised by men. And what's unnatural about it? The damn monkeys do it. Dolphins too. Two of the most intelligent creatures on this earth.

Meh. What do I know.

Being born with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. Being born with men dressed as females. Sex changes all that stuff. Tell me thats normal, tell me how the kid will feel

If The kid will ever feel bad, it'll be only because of people like you, you know, people who discriminate other people. Oh, and just because I like to call people stupid: Men who dresses as females are transvestites. I reckon most fags don't dress up as females.

 

[Asuka]

What if he loves having gay parents ? it's not a sick abnormal world, you see it that way. Who said homosexuality doesn't benefits us ?

How many children would like to have "gay" parents. You tell me how homosexuality benefits the humen race. Its a simple fact of LIFE. You live and get with the opposite gender.

 

[Sprafa]

Read what i wrote above. If they have children they are taking away from these kids. They have no choce now but to live with "Gay" people. What kid of world is that being born ether without a father or mother. Being born with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. Being born with men dressed as females. Sex changes all that stuff. Tell me thats normal, tell me how the kid will feel.

Well, how will the kid feel if his parents are 18-year olds that don't know a crap about life and had him by accident ?

How will the kid feel if his parents are drug adicts ? How will the kid feel if his parents hate him ?

The truth is that the kid may feel perfectly fine with gay parents, but awful with "normal" ones.

It's people like you that make those kids feel bad. It's people like you that make fun of them at school and/or tell them to find new parents. The less people like you are there, the better gay people are.

 

[Asuka]

I honestly don't believe that children will grow up to automatically like men instead of females if they're raised by men. And what's unnatural about it? The damn monkeys do it. Dolphins too. Two of the most intelligent creatures on this earth.

Meh. What do I know.




If The kid will ever feel bad, it'll be only because of people like you, you know, people who discriminate other people.

Its all about the environment the child is living in. I never said he will auto turn gay when he grows up. He will have to live with this sickness for years and years.

 

[NeLi]

Its all about the environment the child is living in. I never said he will auto turn gay when he grows up. He will have to live with this sickness for years and years.

What sickness?

 

[Asuka]

Well, how will the kid feel if his parents are 18-year olds that don't know a crap about life and had him by accident ?

How will the kid feel if his parents are drug adicts ? How will the kid feel if his parents hate him ?

The truth is that the kid may feel perfectly fine with gay parents, but awful with "normal" ones.

It's people like you that make those kids feel bad. It's people like you that make fun of them at school and/or tell them to find new parents. The less people like you are there, the better gay people are.

How does that make any sense. I never said it was right for drug addicts to have children etc. Its wrong. Who in there right mind wont like to live with normal parents. Who will like to live with awful ones. Thats NOT being normal its not normal to have a sexual relationship with the same gender. I dont make fun of gay people, who said i did? I just dont like to be around them, i dont think its right. Simple fact is that to move on in life you have to mate with the opposite gender. Mating with the same gender wont get you a child it just causes sickness. Dressing like a female when your a male doesnt cause any good or the other way around. Having a sex change doesnt benefit ether.

 

[NeLi]

How does that make any sense. I never said it was right for drug addicts to have children etc. Its wrong. Who in there right mind wont like to live with normal parents. Who will like to live with awful ones. Thats NOT being normal its not normal to have a sexual relationship with the same gender. I dont make fun of gay people, who said i did? I just dont like to be around them, i dont think its right. Simple fact is that to move on in life you have to mate with the opposite gender. Mating with the same gender wont get you a child it just causes sickness. Dressing like a female when your a male doesnt cause any good or the other way around. Having a sex change doesnt benefit ether.

* The term and idea of something being "normal" is extremely vague, and probably changes from person to person.

* If these people can't love females, and feel that they are suitable parents despite the fact that they are two males instead of a female/male *gasp*, then why can't they raise a child, just like any other child?

* Why would most gay people dress up as women? That's transvestites.

 

[Asuka]

* The term and idea of something being "normal" is extremely vague, and probably changes from person to person.

* If these people can't love females, and feel that they are suitable parents, why can't they raise a child?

* Why would most gay people dress up as women? That's transvestites.

Never said most people dress that way. I put it there because its something some gay people do.

They migth be able to raise a child fine, but i can assure you 90% of the children these people would be raising would be against it. Why force them to go home everyday and see 2 fathers or 2 mothers. THAT ISNT NORMAl. Tell me how thats normal. Yes normal differs between person to person. But there are the basic things in life that just shouldnt be messed with. Being gay is the complete opposite or normal. You cant have your own kid that way its not possible. Thats why its not normal. Its not natural for 2 men or 2 women to have sex or "love" each other.

 

[Neutrino]

How many children would like to have "gay" parents.

I wouldn't have minded at all. One's sexuality has nothing to do with how I see or judge a person. In fact I think I probably know a bit about this. Yes, I have a mom and dad, who were great parents, but I also grew up with my godmother and her partner who is gay. They were a direct part of my upbringing for most of my childhood and I consider them to be part of my family. Indeed, if anything had ever happened to my parents they would have been the people who would have raised me. So no, having homosexual parents is not some evil thing. If they are good parents then they are good parents.

I also know two people who were in fact raised by their mother who is gay and has a partner. Both of them turned out just fine. The one has two children now I believe and is happily married. So the picture you try to paint of gay parents as being some sort of sick thing that will ruin children is in fact quite wrong. It is the people that matter, not their sexuality like I said.

Its a simple fact of LIFE. You live and get with the opposite gender.

That's no argument. It is also a fact of life that many people are gay.

but i can assure you 90% of the children these people would be raising would be against it.

That is a completely ludicrous statement that you just pulled out of thin air. I don't think you actually know a thing about it truly.

 

[Asuka]

That is a completely ludicrous statement that you just pulled out of thin air. I don't think you actually know a thing about it truly.

Just go around any school/street and ask the kids 12-17 how they would feel if they had gay parents.

 

[Sprafa]

Just go around any school/street and ask the kids 12-17 how they would feel if they had gay parents.

They were born and raised with straight parents, that's just ridiculous.

You have to ask 12-17 kids with gay parents how they feel about it, and I can guess that the minority that says they don't like it is because their "friends" make fun of them.