Should the west boycott the Olympics?

[CptStern]

ya but the olympics changed a long time ago ..it's now about corporate sponsorship and who can get away with taking performance enhancing drugs

 

[Mr Stabby]

yes but how does it get so cheap? we turn a blind eye to the fact that something has to be put by the wayside in oder for it to be so cheap ..stuff like quality control, dangerous manufacturing practices, the use of prohibited materials etc ..we are just as respnisible for creating that enviroment by demanding low prices ..in the meantime we're undercutting our own products in favour of cheap unregulated crap

like lead paint used in chidrens toys or pulp used as a filler in food products

It's cheap because the labour is cheap. Most stuff we buy from China meets our regulations. We are as likely to stop buying stuff from China, as we are to stop buying oil form the middle east.

 

[Kula Meenur]

Yes. I worded it badly. I mean even though the Olympics is drowned in politics I would prefer that politics be kept out of it (though that is a lost cause).

****in oath

 

[CptStern]

It's cheap because the labour is cheap. Most stuff we buy from China meets our regulations.

not always, that's why there's so many recalls due to lead paint, or chemicals in food products, unsafe products etc

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56063
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/27/asia/AS-GEN-China-Tainted-Food.php
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/08/toy.recall/index.html

U.S. safety officials have recalled about 4.2 million Chinese-made Aqua Dots bead toys that contain a chemical that has caused some children to vomit and become comatose after swallowing them.

Scientists have found the popular toy's coating contains a chemical that, once metabolized, converts into the toxic "date rape" drug GHB, or gamma-hydroxy butyrate, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission spokesman Scott Wolfson told CNN.

it's not just cheap labour

Diethylene glycol, a deadly solvent and one of the main ingredients to antifreeze, is relatively cheap.

Chinese drug manufacturers wanted to save some money and exported the poison to Panama, passing it off as glycerin.

The diethylene glycol found its way into 260,000 bottles of childrens cold medicine, and 365 deaths have been reported so far.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

their health and safety regulations would be the butt end of a joke if it wasnt so freakin deadly

the federal agency has failed thus far to issue warnings over the possible contamination of RU-486, a chemical abortion pill made exclusively in China, which has led to at least 6 documented deaths in North America and hundreds of severe adverse effects in women.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/jul/07072607.html

 

[Mr Stabby]

I think you underestimate the volume of stuff we buy from China, the majority of manufactured goods today are made in China.

 

[Nemesis6]

They've been saying that it hurts Tibet to boycot the Chinese Olympics. Well, that's toss. Whatever it is, if someone does decide to go to China to see it, they'd better not bring a bible or they'll be in big trouble. Of course nothing like this happened in China recently where a woman wasn't selling bibles on a street corner and then was NOT arrested and certainly was NOT beaten to death in prison. The party knows best. Now back to working in those giant Apple factories in Zhangzhou where if you don't stand still while working, they can punish you.

 

[Minister]

As far as I know the Olympics where meant to transcend national politics, to provide an opportunity for nations to come together in good and not so good times. And ultimately to bond people of this planet together. I would think the Olympics are going to bring china closer to the rest of the world, and if the past
is any indication the Chinese populace is going to be better off for it.

This is what I think as well

 

[No Limit]

I think you underestimate the volume of stuff we buy from China, the majority of manufactured goods today are made in China.

Why is that an excuse? How many people have died from products made here in the states?

And it's not just the fact that their products kill us. How their people are treated in these factories should be enough to make anyone sick to their stomach. But I guess making excuses is much easier that paying $20 more for an iPod.

 

[CptStern]

I think you underestimate the volume of stuff we buy from China, the majority of manufactured goods today are made in China.

what does that have to do with anything? how does that change the fact that they should have stricter regulations? and that our governments are in a position to force them to change their regulations?

canada just signed a bill into law that says all manufactured goods must prove they meet canadian standards ..before it was up to the government to track them down, now it's up to the companies to prove their goods meet our standards

 

[CptStern]

lol the shit is about to hit the proverbial (chinese) fan

China has reaffirmed its commitment to take the Olympic torch through Tibet despite strong international pressure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7338258.stm

they have to realise this is a bad idea, they cant be that dumb ..can they?

 

[Tyguy]

we might not be getting another shipment of happy meal toys in a while

 

[Direwolf]

As far as I know the Olympics where meant to transcend national politics, to provide an opportunity for
nations to come together in good and not so good times. And ultimately to bond people of this planet
together.

Always been my feeling too.

 

[<RJMC>]

lol the shit is about to hit the proverbial (chinese) fan




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7338258.stm

they have to realise this is a bad idea, they cant be that dumb ..can they?

and since when they care about international opinion?

 

[CptStern]

they sure as hell cared when the world recalled chinese made products:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/health/main2860989.shtml

 

[Dan]

As a former athlete, I have an idea of the amount of work that the competitors put into the Olympics. It is literally their life. To take it away would be cruel and a huge waste of the money that has already been put into the athletics programs.

 

[No Limit]

As a former athlete, I have an idea of the amount of work that the competitors put into the Olympics. It is literally their life. To take it away would be cruel and a huge waste of the money that has already been put into the athletics programs.

I agree.

 

[Baserape>]

I applaud the Olympic committee granting China the right to host the games. We can only hope the Chinese government get a taste for democracy and bring down the iron curtain of China. Maybe the Olympic games will shame them into changing their ways?

 

[repiV]

I applaud the Olympic committee granting China the right to host the games. We can only hope the Chinese government get a taste for democracy and bring down the iron curtain of China. Maybe the Olympic games will shame them into changing their ways?

That's inevitable anyway. Economic freedom will lead to political freedom, and the government is far less intrusive upon the daily lives of its citizens than it has been in the recent past.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Why is that an excuse? How many people have died from products made here in the states?

And it's not just the fact that their products kill us. How their people are treated in these factories should be enough to make anyone sick to their stomach. But I guess making excuses is much easier that paying $20 more for an iPod.

Do you really think it's going to stop. Western consumerism is based on produce made in 3rd world sweatshops, most people know this and yet it continues. It isn't going to change anytime soon.

what does that have to do with anything? how does that change the fact that they should have stricter regulations? and that our governments are in a position to force them to change their regulations?

canada just signed a bill into law that says all manufactured goods must prove they meet canadian standards ..before it was up to the government to track them down, now it's up to the companies to prove their goods meet our standards

I don't see what regulations have to do with our reliance on Chinese manufacture, we will continue to buy their produce and are therefore economically very important to us. If sub standard quality was the only thing that gave China and advantage over us, in cost cutting then we wouldn't be buying their stuff. Labour is vastly cheaper in China and that's why produce is cheaper to make their, most of the stuff China makes (TVs, Xbox) meets our requirements anyway.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

seems really really hypocritical of the west to justify the 1980 boycott on account of the soviet occupation of afghanistan and then to ignore the very same thing when it's not someone who they have an axe to grind

Well, I also think they boycotted the invasion of Afghanistan too little and too late without of course not knowing very much to begin with (i.e, that Russia was going in whether it needed to or not -- although on a side note, what was the problem if Afghanistan was still a little communist? It's like the creation of Pakistan from India -- some extremists just wanted to Islamify, while others did not.)

But that's just my two cents on the whole ordeal.

btw if you're thinking the olympics shouldnt be political you're worng because it's always been political ..from Jesse Ownes running in from hitler to the US boycott of the soviet hosted olympics to the polictical muders of isreali athletes in the 72 olympics. Athletes represent their respective nations ..the olympics is all about nationalism


good thing the olympics arent being held in the US ..due to iraq and all

I think you're last statement had everything to do with they're potential candidate -- but obviously to them, Tibet didn't matter.

 

[No Limit]

Do you really think it's going to stop. Western consumerism is based on produce made in 3rd world sweatshops, most people know this and yet it continues. It isn't going to change anytime soon.

And how pitiful is that? Like I said, if we were willing to pay a tiny premium for our products this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Dan]

And how pitiful is that? Like I said, if we were willing to pay a tiny premium for our products this wouldn't be an issue.

How do you know that the premium is tiny and what the effect would be? Where are you getting your data from? What is the basis for your statement? Do you just have a gut feeling that if Chinese products were sold at higher prices it would benefit the workers? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing in the world. How can you be sure that increasing prices would not simply slow down the Chinese economy, leading to factory closures and higher unemployment and poverty?

If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you personally start shelling out your money to Chinese factory workers. You could add up all of your purchases of Chinese made goods and add a personal 20% tax to it and then mail off a cheque to Chang Tam before you start advocating that everyone else be forced to do the same.

 

[JFry]

e drama

EDIT: Infraction. - sulk

 

[lame-o]

Boycotting the Olympics isn't going to create any tensions, but it might expose ones that are already there. I don't know why some people think that it would lead to full blown war or the establishment of new "enemies" (considering China already IS an enemy to the free world for basically being a communistic state). All I know is that eventually something has to be done, and even though it's a crude attempt it's SOMETHING. And I don't think the UN will get off their asses and do anything, ever. They're too afraid of any type of conflict to function properly.

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

Nope.

 

[Dan]

US has been trying to build up China as the military enemy ever since the end of the Cold War. But the simple fact is that there is no feasible way for a war to happen. At most it could just be bombings. China doesn't have a big navy to oppose the US in the Pacific. Their navy is built around coastal defense. The USA could not wage a land war on mainland China, and China could not wage a land war on mainland America. Iraq has nearly bankrupted the USA, a war in China wouldn't even be underway before America ran out of money. And then there's the fact that globalization has made total war a net loss scenario for everyone involved, even the victor.

 

[Mr Stabby]

And how pitiful is that? Like I said, if we were willing to pay a tiny premium for our products this wouldn't be an issue.

We aren't willing though, are we? If Chinese workers got the same wage as western workers then those factories would be in the west.

 

[soulslicer]

Obama himself supports this..

Obama urges Bush Bejiing boycott

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7339943.stm

 

[CptStern]

cant help but think it's nothing more than an empty gesture ..doubt obama would boycott it if he were in bush's shoes ..at this point Bush couldnt even if wanted to

 

[Irksome]

cant help but think it's nothing more than an empty gesture ..doubt obama would boycott it if he were in bush's shoes ..at this point Bush couldnt even if wanted to

Saint Obama, making empty gestures? That's blasphemy.

 

[CptStern]

You Shut Up Heathen!!!

 

[No Limit]

Do you just have a gut feeling that if Chinese products were sold at higher prices it would benefit the workers? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing in the world.

We aren't willing though, are we? If Chinese workers got the same wage as western workers then those factories would be in the west.

I should have made my point a little clearer. I didn't mean that we should pay more so that we could continue to build these products in china. I meant we should pay more so that these products can be built in a country that doesn't abuse it's workers like China does.

I work in an american manufacturing company. We don't build anything comparable to an iPod or other consumer products (our work deals with national labs) but I have a pretty good idea of what it costs to build an electronic device. The only reason these companies go to countries like China to build their stuff is not to pass the savings on to us, it is to put more money in their pockets. This hole lowering the prices argument has always been made when free trade is brought up. Clinton made the same argument in the 90s when he lead this country to join NAFTA. In the last 10 years have the prices for any of your goods gotten lower? Ford cars used to be produced here in the states, now they are most built in mexico. Has the price for these items come down at all? No, it hasn't.

Again, take the iPod for example. This is a product mostly produced in China. Virtually everything on the iPod is done on a machine. The case is molded on a machine. The PCB boards are done on a pick and place machine. The only hand assembly that takes place is to put the entire thing together, a process that would take minutes. There is no reason that this assembly couldn't be completed in a country that respects their workers and the cost to make that iPod would go up by a very slight margin, I would say around 10-20% at most (a number I clearly pulled out of my ass but I think it is an over the top figure just to be safe). So the question is why is apple and all these other corporations sending this type of work to china when it really wouldn't cost them all that much more to produce the product here or any other country that actually respects it's workforce.

 

[kirovman]

Aspects of the protests are a public relations victory for the Chinese government: They can taut how "evil" the protesters are based on incidents like this.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20080410_1.htm

Seems like pretty much all overseas Chinese are passionately against these protestors too.

 

[Dynasty]

Personally I think the Olympic committee should all be ***ked and burned anyway BUT, I still think it shouldnt be boycott'd, however enevitably it will be.

Pardon the bad grammar.

 

[The Monkey]

Boycotting the Olympics, and thus humiliate the Chinese in their first glorious international event, will only increase the feeling in China that the West is out to get them and will increase nationalistic sentiments, something neither the west nor Tibet will benefit from.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^ I agree, but a future conflict between our nation states is also inevitable.

I mean, not unless we put a Tariff on all of they're products to bring parts of they're economy to a screeching halt -- and while that would put us both into a bad situation, we could always be one step ahead of the sinking ship if we plan ahead of time to have some sort of backup contingency.

Unless, you'd consider a Tariff an act of war or a siege tactic.

 

[Escaep]

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=jo-olyboycott041508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[Dan]

Before you start campaigning for independent states in foreign nations, you can start helping the independence movements within your own country.

Canadians can campaign for Quebec libre. Americans can support separatists in Puerto Rico, Vermont, Texas, California, Hawaii, Guam, and Alaska. Brits can work for a free Wales, and Scotland for the Scots. French can help free Tahitians, New Caledonians, Corsicans, and the Basques. Spaniards can also back the Basques, or the Catalonians. Italians can help Sicilian separatists or the Northern League. Danes can free the Faeroe Islands. Poles can back Cashubians. Japanese can help Okinawan separatists, and Filipinos can help the Moros. Thai can promote Patanni independence; Indonesians can promote Acehnese independence. New Zealanders can leave the islands to the Maori; Australians can vacate Papua. Sri Lankans can help Tamil separatists; Indians can help Sikh separatists.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I think perhaps you may be drawing false parallels.

Tibet does not, like the Tamil Tigers, attack civilian populations in a militant fashion - and nor did it, like Scotland and Wales, get a referendum on devolution.

 

[Dan]

Are you saying that a claim to independence is forfeited by the use of force? I don't see how the actions of individuals should change the legitimacy of an independent state. But if it is like you say, that using force illegitimacizes independence, then perhaps the United States should revert to a colony.

And I can give you more examples of independence movements if those are not enough for you. The fact of the matter is that the sudden support for Tibetan independence is just another political play backed by United States media, and the whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.