So does anyone make "build me a pc" threads nowadays?

[ShinRa]

No biggie, I appreciate all your help. So I won't need to overclock the 860? That's good to know.

Do you know if all this will fit in a mid-tower atx? Or do I need a full tower? That should be the last of my questions haha.

 

[VirusType2]

Just enable Intel Turbo Mode in the bios and it automatically changes the clock speed based on demand. It's completely controlled by the CPU itself - it's fool proof.

If the motherboard is ATX it fits in an ATX (mid tower) case. I recommended ATX (instead of MicroATX) if you can fit it, as ATX boards have more features, like more PCI slots.

 

[ShinRa]

Just enable Intel Turbo Mode in the bios and it automatically changes the clock speed based on demand. It's completely controlled by the CPU itself - it's fool proof.

So its overclocking for idiots. Yay!:thumbs:

So here's something else I don't understand. My current cpu is an AMD FX-57, which is a 2.8ghz processor, the SAME as the 860 which is a 2.8. Where's the huge performance increase coming from?

And since when is it so cheap to build such a powerhouse? My current computer cost me over 2000 when I built it 3 years ago!

 

[VirusType2]

Well, I don't know anything about that processor "fx057' but I had a CeleronD 3.33 Ghz, and it's slow as **** compared to the i5-750 which is 2.66.

First of all, the i5 and i7 have 4 cores (4 cpus) and the i7 processors also have HT, which means you can run 8 threads, which I guess has some of the advantages of having 8 CPU's, but not nearly as good I suppose.

Secondly, it has special instruction sets to handle things like video and other things we use these days. See the instructions?



Without instructions, I guess it's like missing math formulas to do things, so it would be slow.

Third, it is a completely redesigned architecture. It even has the memory controller right on die (built into the CPU), so it has almost zero latency.

Fourth it has the PCIe controller on die as well. see above.

Fifth it has Turbo Boost, which can overclock up to 3 cores (cpus) up to like 3.5 GHz (wild guess, not sure exactly of your CPU, but the i5-750 clocks up to 3.2 Ghz)

Lastly, it [probably] has a much larger and faster cache.

The cool thing is that the voltage and clocks are changed on the fly so it idles at like 45 watts or something, which is like half or a third of the power use (and therefore heat generation) of any rivals. Cool chips can overclock.

So instead of overclocking it yourself, forcing it to operate faster at all times, it does it when you need it. And that also means that it can also turn down the clocks by itself if it gets too hot, instead of damaging it, like you would do if you overclocked it yourself and it got too hot.


If someone can step in and make corrections where I'm wrong, I would appreciate it.

 

[ShinRa]

That made complete sense, and it sounds awesome. Man I've been gone too long, cant believe how much things have changed! Well thats all great to know. Just need to pick a case now and I'll be building!

By the way, grand total cost is just under $1200. Can't believe how cheap this is. Still worried about the memory im buying though. I went from $235 6gb tri-channel corsair ram to $95 4gb dual channel G.Skill. Cant wrap my head around such a low cost of memory (my 1gb corsair ram cost me $200 back in the day!!!)

 

[VirusType2]

I actually thought it was expensive because everything should cost less.

Make sure you list what you're getting so we can [strike]judge you[/strike], er I mean, so we can make sure everything will play nice.

 

[VirusType2]

Thank you guys SO much for taking time to help me out, your insight is much appreciated. The i7 870 seems to outperform the 860 in those benchmarks. Is it worth the purchase over the 860?

Decided to look into this question

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115213&cm_re=870-_-19-115-213-_-Product

That's actually a lower price compared to what I had seen elsewhere. $530 at newegg. No, not worth a few FPS, or a few seconds here and there. No wonder it's on sale.

 

[ShinRa]

Thanks virus. I will list everything tonight before I make the purchase so you judge.....er..... Review everything. Much much appreciated

 

[VirusType2]

Just FYI, here's the build that Dinnesch made. (in his signature):

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3077107&postcount=7

 

[ShinRa]

Wow, basically the same build. So is this out of 10? Still impressive for the price.

And should I get the 32 bit or 64 bit Windows 7?

 

[VirusType2]

No, the index only goes to 7.9.

That really depends. If you have Windows XP 32 bit, then you might as well use Windows 7 64bit. You can dual boot by simply installing XP first, then install 7 and don't select the 'upgrade' option from the 7 setup menu. 7 will create a boot menu to choose the operating system when you boot your computer.

I don't think you have to make a choice between which one to buy. I'm pretty sure the retail version of Windows 7 comes with both 32 bit and 64 bit versions.

 

[Raziaar]

For 950 bucks I got an awesome computer for myself back in may.

I love the shit out of this thing.

 

[ShinRa]

Thats insane Raziaar.

Well here's the "final" list, hope everything matches up and is quality stuff:

The Whatevers:
Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA
HDMI Cable v1.3 6 ft. HDMI TO HDMI Cable A/V Gold Plated for 1080P

The Importants:
-MSI P55-GD80 LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
-ASUS EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 Video Card
-Antec TruePower New TP-750 Blue 750W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.3 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE
-Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860
-G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
-Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
-No case still (RECOMMEND PLEASE)

 

[VirusType2]

Why do you want to use an HDMI cable? Doesn't your monitor have DVI?

I see you decided to go with a motherboard with 2 PCIe 16x slots. With that CPU, you only get 8x per slot. However, all except the latest and greatest PCIe video cards don't use more than 8x bandwidth, so you should be fine. I'm not sure how much bandwidth the 5850 uses. Possibly16x because that's a nice looking video card

You could save $80 by getting a motherboard with 1 PCIe slot. You think you might use 2 video cards?

As for case, 2 of the 3 people who reviewed that card said they have the Antec NSK4480 case.

the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...r=BESTMATCH&Description=Antec+NSK4480&x=0&y=0

At least you know it will fit. However, it's not in stock. You'll have to do some research for a different case or buy it elsewhere.


The WD5001AALS is not 1TB, it's 500GB.

power supply is SLI, so I guess you're thinking about 2 video cards? I would go with Corsair, though my old Antec PSU has been running for a couple years fine. (I leave my PC on)


If you're paying $190 for the motherboard and are considering a multi GPU setup, you might should go with the i7-920 or an AMD CPU/motherboard instead. That's the price range of the 920's motherboards, and the 920 is butter suited for multi GPU setups. An AMD AM3 motherboard and CPU could be less expensive than the 920/motherboard.

I personally own and love the MSi CD-53 motherboard, It's $115, not including bundle discounts

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...240&cm_re=msi_p55_cd53-_-13-130-240-_-Product

Your use may vary. I love the 8 SATA slots. I'm using all but one of them (6 hard drives and a DVD burner), I'm reserving the final SATA for a Blu Ray drive some day.

 

[Quixoticism]

I've always been partial to this case.

It also comes in silver.
I like this case as well. (Yes, I'm a big fan of Thermaltake cases)

NZXT case

 

[VirusType2]

I'm using the Antec 900 [version 1] case, but it suits my needs. 6 hard drive bays + optical drive bays.

However, with that video card, it could be too long, and thus you might need to remove the cage for 3 of the drive bays. Not an issue for everyone.

 

[ShinRa]

Why do you want to use an HDMI cable? Doesn't your monitor have DVI?

I see you decided to go with a motherboard with 2 PCIe 16x slots. With that CPU, you only get 8x per slot. However, all except the latest and greatest PCIe video cards don't use more than 8x bandwidth, so you should be fine. I'm not sure how much bandwidth the 5850 uses. Possibly16x because that's a nice looking video card

You could save $80 by getting a motherboard with 1 PCIe slot. You think you might use 2 video cards?

I do NOT plan on ever having two video cards. I just went with whatever motherboard fit the socket and had good ratings. So the cpu will only cover 8x and not 16x even if I switch to a single slot motherboard?

The WD5001AALS is not 1TB, it's 500GB.

power supply is SLI, so I guess you're thinking about 2 video cards? I would go with Corsair, though my old Antec PSU has been running for a couple years fine. (I leave my PC on)

Again, I don't plan on running 2 cards. So I dont even need 750w?

If you're paying $190 for the motherboard and are considering a multi GPU setup, you might should go with the i7-920 or an AMD CPU/motherboard instead. That's the price range of the 920's motherboards, and the 920 is butter suited for multi GPU setups. An AMD AM3 motherboard and CPU could be less expensive than the 920/motherboard.

I personally own and love the MSi CD-53 motherboard, It's $115, not including bundle discounts

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...240&cm_re=msi_p55_cd53-_-13-130-240-_-Product

Your use may vary. I love the 8 SATA slots. I'm using all but one of them (6 hard drives and a DVD burner), I'm reserving the final SATA for a Blu Ray drive some day.

I will never use more than 500gb, and if I manage to, I can always add another drive. I don't plan on using 2 cards, so I need to re-work my purchases.

 

[ShinRa]

Again, Virus, I'm very confused now about this 16x and 8x. The motherboard I chose said it has a 16x slot? Are you saying it only has 1 16x, and if I wanted to run 2 cards, I'd have to switch to 8x/8x? If I'm only having one card, then will it run at 16x?

 

[ShinRa]

And I don't need an HDMI cable to have 1080p on my monitor?

 

[VirusType2]

Again, Virus, I'm very confused now about this 16x and 8x. The motherboard I chose said it has a 16x slot? What does the CPU have to do with it? And I know I'm not futureproofing much here, but that sounds like something can change very quickly...

I do NOT plan on ever having two video cards. I just went with whatever motherboard fit the socket and had good ratings. So the cpu will only cover 8x and not 16x even if I switch to a single slot motherboard?

The 750,860, 870 CPUs have a built in PCIe controller. Bandwidth is 16x. 1 card will get the full 16x. if you use crossfire or SLI, each card gets 8x. It's just the way the chip was designed. As an advantage of having it on die, there should be much less latency.

LIke I said though, only the supreme video cards (as of today) like the Nvidia cards that are basically 2 cards in one will actually need more than 8x anyway (so it would be like having 4 cards if you had two of them), but it's something you'll have to research for the 5850. It may be able to take advantage of more than 8x, I just don't know. But again, if you have the 1 video card, you get the full 16x.

Again, I don't plan on running 2 cards. So I dont even need 750w?

I doubt it, but you'll have to look into the recommendations for that video card. Generally 500-750w is plenty a high end video card.

I will never use more than 500gb, and if I manage to, I can always add another drive. I don't plan on using 2 cards, so I need to re-work my purchases.

Not that simple, the different models have different specs. I recommended the Black 1TB because it is extremely fast. The fastest tested (overall) as of a few months ago. I'll look and see if I can find the exact model for you

And I don't need an HDMI cable to have 1080p on my monitor?

Not at all. The monitor may have a built in DVI cord, or it may come with a detachable one. DVI is the preferred input for a computer monitor. An HDMI cable not only has limited resolution, but it also has the sound traveling through it. HDMI is for HDTV televisions.

Also, it's not that the 1156 socket doesn't have an upgrade path, its just that you won't be able to upgrade to a 6 or 8 core processor. It's brand new socket, but already, as you've seen, the 870 would be an upgrade, and surely there will be more processors to come. Probably down the road there will be a worthy upgrade to the 860, (a processor that isn't out yet) and prices go down on these things as well.

You will also be able to upgrade to 8GB or even 16GB of RAM, if you should need. (provided you are using a 64 bit OS)

 

[ShinRa]

The 750,860, 870 CPUs have a built in PCIe controller. Bandwidth is 16x. 1 card will get the full 16x. if you use crossfire or SLI, each card gets 8x. It's just the way the chip was designed. As an advantage of having it on die, there should be much less latency.

LIke I said though, only the supreme video cards (as of today) like the Nvidia cards that are basically 2 cards in one will actually need more than 8x anyway (so it would be like having 4 cards if you had two of them), but it's something you'll have to research for the 5850. It may be able to take advantage of more than 8x, I just don't know. But again, if you have the 1 video card, you get the full 16x.

Perfect, exactly what I wanted to know. So I save even more money now by getting a mobo with one pci-e slot.

I doubt it, but you'll have to look into the recommendations for that video card. Generally 500-750w is plenty a high end video card.

Found a Corsair 650w for 100 bucks, saved me another $20

Not that simple, the different models have different specs. I recommended the Black 1TB because it is extremely fast. The fastest tested (overall) as of a few months ago. I'll look and see if I can find the exact model for you

I'd appreciate that then. I've just always heard big drives like that tend to have more problems.

Not at all. The monitor may have a built in DVI cord, or it may come with a detachable one. DVI is the preferred input for a computer monitor. An HDMI cable not only has limited resolution, but it also has the sound traveling through it. HDMI is for HDTV televisions.

Also nice to know this. Everything will still be "HD" even with the DVI cord? I have it plugged into my x1900 currently and everything looks shite.

Also, it's not that the 1156 socket doesn't have an upgrade path, its just that you won't be able to upgrade to a 6 or 8 core processor. It's brand new socket, but already, as you've seen, the 870 would be an upgrade, and surely there will be more processors to come. Probably down the road there will be a worthy upgrade to the 860, (a processor that isn't out yet) and prices go down on these things as well.

I anticipate future upgrades, but if this computer will play the latest and greatest for a while, then I'm perfectly fine with that. Still can't find a goddamn case lol. Thanks for all your help Virus!

 

[VirusType2]

Sounds good.

Yup, DVI offers resolutions much higher than HDMI.

See here's the thing about motherboard prices:

The 860 has half the motherboard chipset built in! It has the memory and PCIe controllers built into the chip. While that would be a major hindrance for overclocker and overkill sli and quad sli fanatics, it offers significant improvements in speeds. Not only that but the 750, 860, and 870 have a vastly improved turbo feature.

So the i7-920 and the i7-860 are completely different, yet the same price and relatively similar performance.

Since the 750, 860, 870 (they should have all been called i5 TBH) have half of the motherboard built in (memory/pci controller), you can save almost 100% on the motherboard. The 920's $200 motherboard can be $100 for the 860.

Make sense?

BTW I like the ASRock P55 and Msi P55 CD-53 motherboards, but any of them should be fine. Recommend ATX.


Anyway, so that's why I was saying, if you pay $200 for a P55 motherboard (when you could pay $120 for one), you might as well get the 920 - it would be the same cost (for the CPU and for the [other socket type] motherboard).

 

[ShinRa]

That all makes perfect sense.

One more Q:

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ - Retail

Thats the ram, which is DDR3 1600. The mother board though, says this:

Memory Standard DDR3 2133 (OC)/2000 (OC)/1800 (OC)/1600 (OC)/1333/1066

Does that mean my RAM will only work if I OC the motherboard?

 

[VirusType2]

I'm not really sure how it works, that's why I don't mess with it. You could make a new thread for that question if no one answers it.

 

[ShinRa]

Took your advice So right now final rig is looking like this:

ATI 5850 HD 1GB 256-bit DDR5
i7 860 2.8ghz Quad-Core
MSI P55-CD53 Mobo
Whatever that 1TB hdd is you have to show me
4gb G.Skill DDR3 1600 (PC12800)
Corsair 650w PSU

Look good?

 

[Quixoticism]

From what I've heard if the RAM has the OC rating on a certain speed you have to set it manually to get it to run at that speed, otherwise it will use a lower default. Not sure though.

 

[ShinRa]

Thanks! Guess someone can delete the thread I made....

Oh and here's a random one...

On a 64 bit platform, does everything that used to work still work? IE. Emulators/roms, 32 bit games, pictures/video/music/etc?

 

[VirusType2]

I can't tell what the fastest HDD would be, the reviews I was looking at are quite old now, so I wouldn't want to recommend something that is no longer king.

But what you want is a high density hard drive. I doubt the 500GB you picked is high density, since it wouldn't need to be to fit in a standard 3.5 drive. At 1TB, they developed high density drives to fit them in there. (high density = the rings of data on the discs is closer together)

high density means faster, more power efficient, quieter, and cooler.

On a 64 bit platform, does everything that used to work still work? IE. Emulators/roms, 32 bit games, pictures/video/music/etc?

I think for the RAM, you just set it in the BIOS, like Q was saying.

As for compatibility, every software is different. pictures music and video would make no difference, it's the software that plays them that would need to be compatible.

Most 32 bit applications can run perfectly fine in a 64 bit environment, however some don't (but generally only things like security software and root software kinda stuff, since Win7 won't let it work the same way as in XP - Win7 is more secure). You need to look at what you use and find out.

The main thing is hardware drivers, because it's not just 64 bit compared to 32 bit, it's a different operating system from XP, and it handles things differently. So if you're using an old printer, for example, you need to check if there are drivers for Win 7 64 bit.

Win 7 does have a great deal of generic (like chipset) drivers built in. For example, my old wireless adapter from 2001 - there's no drivers available for it from the manufacturer, but Win 7 recognized the chipset in the adapter, and installed one. This means it works, but I won't be able to use the software that came with the adapter. (but I wouldn't have anyway, since Win7 handles operation of my adapter just fine - better - in fact)

So for emulators, you'll have to see if the emulator is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit. (and if it's still being maintained and not abandoned, support may not be ready yet, and may come in the future)

 

[ShinRa]

Thanks for all that useful information Virus. I found DDR3 1333 Gskill for the same amount of money, so I'll feel safer with that. Andddd I think I'm all set!

 

[ShinRa]

Went with this case:

Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA

And I'm throwing this in it:

ATI 5850 HD 1GB 256-bit DDR5
i7 860 2.8ghz Quad-Core
MSI P55-CD53 Mobo
1TB Black Caviar HDD
4gb G.Skill DDR3 1333
Corsair 650w PSU
Sony DVD/CD R/W Drive

 

[VirusType2]

That sounds pretty awesome.

This is the model drive I was referring to.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...284&cm_re=caviar_black-_-22-136-284-_-Product

Notice over 1100 reviews... (it's a big seller)

I have several of these (had them for 6-12 months), and would recommend it also (also very fast):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m_re=samsung_spinpoint-_-22-152-102-_-Product

However, these drives are about a year old, so maybe if you dig the benchmarks, you'll find a 1.5TB or 2TB drive, or even just a newer model 1TB thats even faster, like the F3 over the F1, for example.


LOL, you're going to end up with the same computer as me dude.

 

[Asus]

FYI HDMI and DVI are really similar and you need to make sure of the type of cable for both of them when going beyond 1920x1200 @ 60Hz.
And with the right cable and equipment both can do something crazy like 3840×2400.
For 2500x1600 you need to go from a single link DVI cable to a dual link cable. For HDMI you need to make sure it is version 1.3. The end for HDMI 1 and 1.3 look the same. Dual link DVI has extra pins compared to single link DVI.
HDMI DVI

 

[VirusType2]

I didn't realize they were similar at all, or that HDMI was that capable.


But you're going to confuse the poor boy. What monitor do you have ShinRa?

 

[ShinRa]

Exact model I'm unsure of off the top of my head, but its a 23" lcd LG. 2ms/50000-1 ratio

And Virus, I swore you said you had an x1900. We have the same new systen? Awesome!

 

[ShinRa]

Nevermind that was Stig lol

 

[VirusType2]

The model number will be written on the back of the monitor. It's pretty important in order to be sure you are able to use your new computer right away and not have to order a monitor cable. If you get the model number, let me know. Isn't there a built in cable?

No, I was joking, I have an X1900XT. Though if you keep listening only to me, you'll end up with a very similar system.

Are you sure you want to save $90 by going with the 860 over the 920? Did you compare the benchmarks for yourself? Maybe you want to upgrade to a 6 or 8 core in several years without upgrading all the other components. I'm starting to doubt that I'm reflecting your interests and not mine.

 

[ShinRa]

My interests are to have a computer that can play todays games and just be all around faster than the one I have now. So maybe we just have the same interests. Ill get you the model when I get home.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Went with this case:

Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA

And I'm throwing this in it:

ATI 5850 HD 1GB 256-bit DDR5
i7 860 2.8ghz Quad-Core
MSI P55-CD53 Mobo
1TB Black Caviar HDD
4gb G.Skill DDR3 1333
Corsair 650w PSU
Sony DVD/CD R/W Drive

Dear god, you're set for quite a few years.

 

[CptStern]

that case is really old. make sure it'll actually fit. not sure about the 5850 but the 5870 is a huge vid card that wont fit in some midtowers

I recommend this; Silverstone Fortress. I just built a pc with this case and it's awesome albeit expensive

 

[ShinRa]

Awesome. CptStern. The 5870 is 10.5 inches, the 5850 is 9.5 inches so I *SHOULD* be okay. Thanks for the recommendation though!

Acepilot, if that's not sarcasm then I feel much more confident in my purchase decision, thanks!