So is the medic supposed to be a Nazi?

why is it allways: Earth --> europe --> Germany --> hitler --> Nazi?! ;(
 
Just because Medic is German, does not make him a Nazi. Look at Dr. Ruth Westheimer. She is German but do you see her as a Nazi? Shes a sex therapist.
 
Even if it's meant to be implied, I doubt Valve will ever actually say it. And the female pyro has been confirmed recently, I thought.
 
Polaris said:
He is. Your political correctness is useless.

Hence his quote: "I'm zhe Ubermensch!" - (I'm the superior man)
It is certainly reference to the Nazi eugenics program.
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Pretty sure that's a Nietzsche reference, not Nazi.
 
Coined by Nietzsche, perhaps. Popularized by good ol' Nazism.

They should throw in an "Untermensch" taunt if there isn't one already.
 
Incidentally, a usual translation of uebermensch is "superman" or "overman". It's from Thus Spoke Zarathustra. I'm not aware of any Nazi connotations. The wikipedia page for uebermensch only mentions Nazism twice: once mentioning that the DC Comics character Uebermensch is a Nazi, and one "See also" link for "Nazism and race". I can certainly see how the idea can apply to racial cleansing, but definitely believe the term is much more associated with Nietzsche than with Nazism.

Googling:
"ubermensch nazi" - ~42,400 hits
"ubermensch neitzsche" - ~162,000 hits
 
Hmm, you're probably right. Whenever I've heard the term pop out though, I've usually witnessed a cascade of German/Nazi jokes. Nietszche is MIA.

In any case, I think a number of other things make it pretty clear Valve was going for the old 1940's caricature of the unethical German doctor. It's a figure that so many people would clearly associate with the eugenics program, so I'm sure the similarities are very intentional.
 
wat!? a nazi ! i doubt it. unlees all the tf2 characters r jews......
 
danil1 said:
german people are not nazis u idiot..
and I am talking as one who really hate nazis (I am from israel)
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As a half German (as in my old man is actually German) I am in agreement with danil. I want to say to the OP...

**** you, **** your goddamn stereotypical racist opinions on Germans, **** your stupid ignorant imagination viewing every single person with a German accent as somehow partaking in Indiana Jones movie style fascist plots when not gassing up a few Jews for the lols.



FYI as a half German, I couldn't care less about the Jews, and I think Israeli women are steaming hot sometimes, and while yes I may thing black leather looks cool (frankly who doesn't?) I save my megalomaniac world domination fantasies for RTS games. :p



....And the fact I prefer axis in Wolf: ET means nothing....



:bounce:



The Spy is a Backstabbing French bastard.
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Spanish.


The Heavy is a brainless, buff... I am not sure exactly what he is, but it is a stereotype.
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From the general region Nikolai Bellic is from, Russian or some other eastern European.


And this leaves me at the Pyro. My theory for her is that, being a woman, she is always getting to kill the other men.
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Ignoring the fact the Pyro is clearly a male. If you dunno why one can assume this, then how you manage to meet girls is beyond me. The hitn is look below their necks....

That and the muffled voice sounds male.






Dont mention the war!!!
Click to expand...

You started it!

No we didn't!

Yes you did, you invaded Poland!


Heh, best comedy scene ever...
 
lol Fawlty Towers.

Nurizeko is an idiot, however.
 
And the PC bandwagon comes tromping back into the topic. Listen, guys. Just because the medic might be a Nazi (or is intentionally designed to resemble one) does not mean that you or the entire German population are Nazis, nor that anybody is accusing you of such. Get a grip, folks.

How old are you, Trevelyan?
 
Nurizeko: an over-sensitive loser.

My new theory on the Pyro is that he is gay. Flower handbag anybody? Lol, I should email Tom Jackson and have him make controversy!
 
Why do alot of people say he is Spanish. He speaks in french alot of the time. For Example, one of his Jeers is 'Merde', French for Shit.
 
His accent and speech vary, so it's difficult to pinpoint what exactly he is. Of course, most of the characters don't have the most accurate accents in relation to their real-life counterparts. His "Meet The" video should surely clear some of this up.

I like to think it's simply due to him being a man of the world, what with all the international espionage he's undoubtedly partaken in.
 
Nicky 0123 said:
Why do alot of people say he is Spanish. He speaks in french alot of the time. For Example, one of his Jeers is 'Merde', French for Shit.
Click to expand...

I suppouse, I always figured he was Spanish, never really got the French vibe, but if he's using French guess he is.


Nurizeko: an over-sensitive loser.
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Saratos: An unimportant tosser :)

Lefty called me a name, I called him back, thats not over-sensitive (and TBH its an internet slag, it totally stopped me from sleeping, truthsies!) thats just taking the 5 seconds it took to return the favour. ;)

Like you as a matter of fact. :O
 
Absinthe said:
And the PC bandwagon comes tromping back into the topic. Listen, guys. Just because the medic might be a Nazi (or is intentionally designed to resemble one) does not mean that you or the entire German population are Nazis, nor that anybody is accusing you of such. Get a grip, folks.

How old are you, Trevelyan?
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point taken. Im sure your right. Cant wait the his Meet the video. 24 btw
 
nurizeko said:
As a half German (as in my old man is actually German) I am in agreement with danil. I want to say to the OP...

**** you, **** your goddamn stereotypical racist opinions on Germans, **** your stupid ignorant imagination viewing every single person with a German accent as somehow partaking in Indiana Jones movie style fascist plots when not gassing up a few Jews for the lols.
Click to expand...

It's not like he is a random German character...

He is a doctor. A psycho doctor. Which the Nazi Germans had many of.

TF2 is in 1968. The Medic is German. The Medic looks 40ish to 50ish. He had many lines such as "I am the ubermench" that would imply him being a Nazi.

It's not that big of an assumption. It's not like the game is set in 2000, and there is a German character in his 20s, and I go "olol he is supposed to be a Nazi right lol".

Also, I like Germany. I want to visit there, and I have quite a bit of German genetics in me.
 
German people should take Nazism as a point of pride. All my German friends do.
 
Absinthe, to the "ubermensch" thing:
In German it's spelled "?bermensch" with a "?", in google this gives me more hits with nazi than with nietzsche. As you said, it originates from Nietzsche, but the Nazis took his term and used it for their ideology while shifting from its original meaning.

Edit: uhm, this forum doesn't support unicode or whatever, the "?" is meant to be "ü" (if html-code doesn't work either... it's an "u" with two points on it)
 
The connection with german nazi sadistic doctors is clear, but we are talking of a game so there is no need to read too much into this thing.
By the way, I am italian so I am accustomed to common places about pizza, spaghetti and mafia ;-)
 
VortigauntLover said:
It's not like he is a random German character...

He is a doctor. A psycho doctor. Which the Nazi Germans had many of.
Click to expand...
Most of the characters in TF2 are at best a little psychotic and at worst out-and-out mentalists.
This character trait doesn't necessarily set up their political or ideological affiliations.
I don't really think you could see any of them as having any such affiliations.

The Medic is German. The Medic looks 40ish to 50ish. He had many lines such as "I am the ubermench" that would imply him being a Nazi.
Click to expand...
Nietzsche's concept of the Superman was taken by the Nazis and skewed and then skewed some more to fit their own ideas about eugenics and the master race.
Just because he mentions Nietzsche, it doesn't make him a Nazi: the two are NOT, nor have they ever been, mutually inclusive.

People's tendency to instantly presume Nietzschean philosophy is the same as Nazi ideology is something that thoroughly irritates me.

It's not that big of an assumption.
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It really, really is.
 
el Chi said:
Most of the characters in TF2 are at best a little psychotic and at worst out-and-out mentalists.
This character trait doesn't necessarily set up their political or ideological affiliations.
I don't really think you could see any of them as having any such affiliations.
Click to expand...

Ugh... But of course. =P TF2 is hardly the place for such things. But I think his design is certainly influenced by that archetype. Alternatively, he could just have well signed up simply for his sadistic pleasure, rather than subscribing to any actual ideology. And I find his garb to be fairly reminiscent of that era.

The characters don't exactly have the most fleshed-out backgrounds, so I think the player is free to fill in any details if he wishes. The soldier is an obvious throwback to the old WW2 American troop, and he doesn't need to sing the Pledge of Allegiance for that to be made clear to me. So I don't find it that much of a stretch to see the Medic as the German counterpart to that.

You can see him however you want. If you don't think he matches the criteria, that's perfectly valid. But is it really so deplorable to think he might be an old goosestepper?
 
Even if he is from the 1940's doesn't make him a Nazi, the German Army would have had thousands of doctors.
 
Mr Stabby said:
Even if he is from the 1940's doesn't make him a Nazi, the German Army would have had thousands of doctors.
Click to expand...

Right, but seeing as this a game that plays off of stereotypes, this kind of hard, cold logic seems out of place. Besides, he's not just any doctor. If you want a backstory that fits well into his homicidal tendencies, you need look no further.
 
This is a world where two teams of identical clones save for colour scheme are locked together in mortal combat for all eternity! A world where bombs are delivered on slowly-moving mine carts and also dispense health and ammo! A world where wrenches have friendly fire enabled! Politics went out the window with strategy and supply lines!
 
Really, it's not so much what he's supposed to be as much as what he intentionally resembles. As I said before, his character design could very well be influenced by a real-world analogue, just with all the offensive bits cut out. There's precedence (chummy krauts in Hogan's Heroes anybody?) and I doubt Valve's prepared to throw in lollocaust jokes or anything.

It's easy to accept on its surface.
 
Absinthe said:
Ugh... But of course. =P TF2 is hardly the place for such things. But I think his design is certainly influenced by that archetype. Alternatively, he could just have well signed up simply for his sadistic pleasure, rather than subscribing to any actual ideology. And I find his garb to be fairly reminiscent of that era.

The characters don't exactly have the most fleshed-out backgrounds, so I think the player is free to fill in any details if he wishes. The soldier is an obvious throwback to the old WW2 American troop, and he doesn't need to sing the Pledge of Allegiance for that to be made clear to me. So I don't find it that much of a stretch to see the Medic as the German counterpart to that.

You can see him however you want. If you don't think he matches the criteria, that's perfectly valid. But is it really so deplorable to think he might be an old goosestepper?
Click to expand...
Actually, the medic does have a backstory:
What he lacks in compassion for the sick, respect for human dignity, and any sort of verifiable formal training in medicine, the Medic more than makes up for with a bottomless supply of giant needles and a trembling enthusiasm for plunging them into exposed flesh. Raised in Stuttgart, Germany during an era when the Hippocratic oath had been downgraded to an optional Hippocratic suggestion, the Medic considers healing a generally unintended side effect of satisfying his own morbid curiosity.
Click to expand...
That's from the TF2 wiki but is also what's written on Valve's own TF2 trading cards so it's fair to say that it's canon.

Considering the beginning of that second sentence, perhaps it does refer to the morally questionable doctors of Nazi notoriety...
On the other hand, perhaps we're taking this all a little too seriously and it's making me ashamed of myself. If you'll excuse me, I'm off to top myself.
 
I think he's just a crazy German Medic...
 
el Chi said:
Actually, the medic does have a backstory:

That's from the TF2 wiki but is also what's written on Valve's own TF2 trading cards so it's fair to say that it's canon.
Click to expand...

Yes, he does. But I don't consider a paragraph to be that fleshed out. Hence why I think the ambiguity of the second line allows either reading. I just find it to be a little too... Hint, hint! Wink, wink! ;) :D
 
First of all, the two dots above the U in Ubermensch are called umlauts.

Second of all, Ubermensch at this point is part of the German lexicon and most often recognized as a term coined by Nietzsche. While we're all well enough aware of its Nazi connotations these are mostly ignored- if only because those guys were really good at taking whatever philosophy they happened to like, and bent and forced it until it was so out of shape and context that it had little or nothing to do with its source.

The Spy also uses the word 'prego,' Italian for 'thanks,' and he's probably very familiar with and capable of becoming "native" to whatever part of Europe necessary to ensure a successful mission.

Please note that nowhere in the Medic's background does it say that he's actually German. It only says he was raised in Stuttgart. (Fun Fact: Hitler was Austrian)

Please also note that the Hippocratic Oath has evolved over time and is usually not required for becoming a doctor, or is modified to exclude or work around some parts of the original oath, so as not to conflict with that doctor's specilization. To say that the Medic was brought up during an era where the Hippocratic Oath was more of a Hippocratic suggestion only loosely implies that there are questionable ethics involved. It could just as easily mean that he was brought up in a semi-modern age where practices such as abortion, surgery and eternally injecting guys who wear a different color than you with deadly needles prevent you from keeping the oath in the first place.

While the soldier is an obvious parody of the American grunt soldier, it states in his background that, "Though he wanted desperately to fight in World War 2, the Soldier was rejected from every branch of the U.S. military. Undaunted, he bought his own ticket to Europe. After arriving and finally locating Poland, the Soldier taught himself how to load and fire a variety of weapons before embarking on a Nazi killing spree for which he was awarded several medals that he designed and made himself. His rampage ended immediately upon hearing about the end of the war in 1949. "

If we're discussing stereotypes, the Sniper is your typical Crocodile Dundee sort. He got his start by hunting wildlife in the Outback. The Medic is the psycho Doctor/Scientist. I think the Engineer would've taken his place but they seem to have settled on the Texan thing. The Scout is your typical roughnecked cityboy from Boston, and he's got the accent to match. The Heavy is the Super-Soviet with his awkward English comedy relief. The Engineer is of course the good ol' country boy from Texas. The Soldier and the Spy I already mentioned. They're the military maniac and the European connoisseur, respectively. The Demoman is the Brotha down with the hood (I can't believe I just said that), if you check out his taunts. The Pyro is your classic...well, pyromaniac! Setting things on fire for fun is as basic as it gets, and it's the typical please-don't-sue-me-this-one-could-be-a-Chinese-hermaphrodite-for-all-you-know character.

However, they've also got some part of their character that defies their stereotype. The Engineer is very educated and (presumably) intelligent. The Demoman said himself he's a "Black, Scottish Cyclops," and you don't see those every day. The Medic is actually quite adept at healing and taking care of his fellow teammates, despite his sadistic nature and cruel sense of humor. The Spy- ok, he's pretty stereotypical. I haven't seen him hanging around with any women lately though. (Maybe he's a eunuch?) The Soldier actually seems pretty keen on doing whatever he wants (like taking a deadly tour of Europe), and defying orders is about as non-conventional as it gets for a military man. The Scout, despite his ego being about as big as the city he's from, is the youngest of 8 siblings and only learned to run so fast because he was being pushed to the bottom of the pack. Although the Sniper insists that his job is a purely professional one, his taunts and sentimental expressions are quite the opposite, and he really draws attention to himself- something not really to a sniper's advantage. Although Soviets and the like are (stereo)typically regarded here in the US as cold, logical people (kind of like the Germans), the Heavy has an indelible sense of humor and optimism and sentimental, borderline-fetish obsession with his gun. He's also surprisingly knowledgeable about his specialty and strategy, even though he's supposed to be the brawn-over-brains guy. And then of course the Pyro...Well if it isn't a woman, which defies the convention of the game at the very least, then they're a fire-loving maniac with a purse, and that seems pretty odd in its own right.

I think part of the fun of Team Fortress 2 is the characters' aspects of their personality matching the pros and cons of their class, which gives a breath of life into what would usually be flat calculation and strategizing. In order to accomplish this effectively the developers rely on the audience to use their knowledge of archetypes and stereotypes to give full interpretation of a group whose backgrounds are left purposefully vague.

tl;dr it's only as complicated and true as you make it.
 
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