So there are no hit animations?

[Styloid]

Maybe it is too complex to do realistic human 'flinching' and still meet reasonable system requirements. I don't think it is a matter of coming in and out of rag-doll but more like how the manhacks can be pushed away and still continue flying... except manhacks are just one object while a human would have many muscles and bones and stuff.
It would be great to see this in the game but I don't mind just seeing the blood spill out.

 

[urseus]

In real life, you get shot, you stop firing. Simple as that. Youd stop, look down and asess your wound. After probably 5- 10 seconds youd change hands if you were hit in the shoulder, or stop completly if you were hit in the chest. You dont see soldiers hit and then just keep firing and advancing with their buddies. They just wait for a medic or fall back.

 

[freeorangeshoes]

consider the fact that robotic entities (the strider) have hit animations while human (or at least human-like) ones currently do not. i dont know what ESRB rating the game will have, but perhaps they are aiming for a lower one to appeal to more audiences. some people (read: liberal senators) love to talk about violence in videogames...

 

[ASnogarD]

Have you considered what the effect of hit animations would have on gameplay ?

If a enemy flinches or reacts when shot that enemy will not be able to aim and shoot at you (it would look wierd if the enemy is reacting to the impact of the bullets but still able to keep a steady aim at you), so the enemy will have a weakness that can be all too easily exploited - continue to train firepower on the enemy and the enemy will not be able to return fire.

 

[Raxxman]

flinching is not really hard physics per say, as the kinetic energy that the largest bullets have is so small it would hardly move you. But yeah, the problem with bullet stunning is if it doesn't happen to you it gives you a huge advantage over the enemy and makes them a little bit less threatening.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Have you considered what the effect of hit animations would have on gameplay ?

If a enemy flinches or reacts when shot that enemy will not be able to aim and shoot at you (it would look wierd if the enemy is reacting to the impact of the bullets but still able to keep a steady aim at you), so the enemy will have a weakness that can be all too easily exploited - continue to train firepower on the enemy and the enemy will not be able to return fire.

already said.... :angel:

 

[Mr-Fusion]

German soldiers in MOHAA would sometimes fall on the floor and get back up to take another shot at you. Sometimes you'd think they were dead.

I thought it was a really good element of that game.

Pity about Hl2 though. I would love to get more of a sense that the bullets are doing something to enemies. It's not a gigantic issue though.

 

[NeLi]

German soldiers in MOHAA would sometimes fall on the floor and get back up to take another shot at you. Sometimes you'd think they were dead.

I thought it was a really good element of that game.

Pity about Hl2 though. I would love to get more of a sense that the bullets are doing something to enemies. It's not a gigantic issue though.

The combine are heavily armored grunts (maybe even cybernetic ones, or alien ones) They wont fall backwards unless they die. Normal humans in real life situations often dn't fall backwards when they get shot, either.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The combine are heavily armored grunts (maybe even cybernetic ones, or alien ones) They wont fall backwards unless they die. Normal humans in real life situations often dn't fall backwards when they get shot, either.

Apply it to a half-life 2 situation. I pick up a barrel with the manipulator, launch it at a combine soldier, it may not kill him but it will certainly hit with enough force to knock him off his feet....resulting in him having to get back up and take another shot!

Fact is you can apply that element very easily to HL2. It doesn't have to involve guns.

 

[NeLi]

Apply it to a half-life 2 situation. I pick up a barrel with the manipulator, launch it at a combine soldier, it may not kill him but it will certainly hit with enough force to knock him off his feet....resulting in him having to get back up and take another shot!

Fact is you can apply that element very easily to HL2. It doesn't have to involve guns.

That kinda depends... Getting a barrel filled with stuff flinged at high velocity right in your head might render you kinda...uhm, unconscious?

Just like Gordon did in the videos...He flinged that tiny energy ball thing at a soldier and he collapsed instantly.

...but yeah, I get your point. I want to be able to throw a glass of water on a combine and see him react to that.

 

[Scapegoat]

About the flinching making it too easy - it doesn't have to be hugely exaggerated, just them being stunned back a bit, and then composing themselves. Anyway, I never thought 1 combine by himself would be too much problem - but when they were in groups was when they proved the most problematic.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Yeah...i'm not sure why anyone would try and argue against having that...

oh well...we must always BE

 

[Brian Damage]

Well, in the E3 2004 trailer vid the zombie that gets hit with that barrel (By another Zombie, no less :E) seems to flinch...

 

[daveodeth]

The tragedy of having rag doll deaths is you no longer get the squirming on the ground death animation.

 

[umop]

IMO the entire 'flinching while being shot' thing determines a huge deal of how the game feels. MOHAA was awesome in that respect, and when you stop to think about it you must realize how much less enjoyable the game would be if the charactors didn't flinch at all. Hopefully Valve implements this in later patches, because I'd just love to see it.

Also, why does everyone say like "Valve do" and "Valve need"? It sounds silly and doesn't make any sense... anyone else notice that?

 

[daveodeth]

It also means if you get the drop on them you should be able to machine gun them to non-existance without them getting a shot off.

 

[grison]

just wanted to say: In FarCry you are also heavently affected by shots on YOU (at least if you have a good graphics card). Your screen gets red/black and u certainly are pushed a little bit back and aside as well. Its really hard to shoot back as well.

So its more realisitic and its really NOT easy and NOT easy to exploit.

 

[Thorn of Death]

It's quite hard for flinching and aiming correctly to be together. We don't want this like counter strike.

Imagine how he would look like flinching and shooting accuratly at the target.

 

[Mountain Man]

The tragedy of having rag doll deaths is you no longer get the squirming on the ground death animation.

I'll take dynamic ragdolls over canned death animations any day of the week.

 

[NeLi]

FarCry had flinching, and it sucked. The enemies became totally defenseless as soon as I shot them, and that was just boring.

 

[Bad^Hat]

it used to be animated, but this isnt 1998 physics baby.

Try 2003. Max Payne 2 animated hits Also animated if you run into someone, but it actually looked okay. Still, take a look at the 'secondary effects' video on the Havoc page, too tired to link.

 

[Esquire]

Is there any hit animations , like not for the stirders of course but at leat for those regular soldiers?

i think the striders do have hit animations. After a few RPG hits they kinda stagger like they're legs get too weak to carry them.

 

[Warbie]

Flinching doesn't have to make the game any easier - it depends how the AI is handled.

It can add greatly to the gameplay and immersion.

Hopefully the AI will be challenging in HL2 - finding cover, supporting each other etc. It wouldn't/shouldn't be the case that you can easily shoot each person and keep 'juggling' them till they're all dead (although this was excellent in Golden Eye and far better than the pure DM style of HL, and apprently HL2)

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Try 2003. Max Payne 2 animated hits Also animated if you run into someone, but it actually looked okay. Still, take a look at the 'secondary effects' video on the Havoc page, too tired to link.

yep I know its quite obvious actually.
and the engine is capable of doing the secondary motion (Havok) but whether or not Valve have implemented it is a different matter entirely.

for instance Havok has the ability to ragdoll a living creature, then back to life. (in other words you can pick up someone in psi ops fling them across the room, they ragdoll hitting stuff etc, then if not dead, get up and continue fighting)
however, Valve have not implemented this ability into source.

so simply if it isnt there, it isnt there.. until someone codes it in themselves.

btw, I was being sarcastic about the 1998 comment, I pulled that outta nowhere, I guess I should have been even wittier and said "1945"

 

[Dsty2001]

Only weapon I can think of (We know about) Ingame that would make somebody flinch is the shotgun close range and the .357 Magnum (And the RPG of course ) All the others would simply penetrate the Combines flesh and do internal damage. Now since HL2 is supposed to be very realistic physically, you probably won't see alot of people flying in the air like in other games.

 

[Sanius]

I think it would be pretty cool to shoot an rpg by a combine soldier, and have him flying through the air.

 

[NeLi]

I think it would be pretty cool to shoot an rpg by a combine soldier, and have him flying through the air.

You'll see exactly that in the E3 2004 video. A combine gets hit by a rocket and flies half across the beach underneath him.

 

[Sanius]

You'll see exactly that in the E3 2004 video. A combine gets hit by a rocket and flies half across the beach underneath him.

the e3 2004 video won't work for me.

 

[wonkers]

None of you even took the time to take into account that HL2 has scaleable settings. UT2k4 has different levels of physics that doesn't affect gameplay.

Did you ever think that maybe the combine are stunned the same amount of time, they just don't react physically to the hit. This would save them from calculating some complex physics that arn't necessary.

Then again who knows.

The idea of a knock down then fighting again is cool. You should be able to trip the combine too. Ass over tea kettle with a 50 gal. drum. HAHAHHAAH

 

[Jadewolf5675]

Doesn't make sense to me that they would release it *after* it ships, it seems it would be fairly simple to code in. And why are they using a dated version of Havok anyways?

-edit-

This is sorta what we've been talking about, from the Havok website.

New, localized ragdoll effects (for example, you can get a dead arm if you get shot in the shoulder) and bone level blending of key-framed animation with physics.
Classic ragdoll effects blended from key-framed animation sequences for more realistic secondary motion (for example, in death scenes) for your characters.

 

[ferd]

Er, I said it wasn't there. Dunno, maybe you typoed

Actually it is in the game, but for some weird reason they flinch when they get hit by smaller guns and not by bigger guns, but maybe that's kinda realistic

 

[Axyon]

Actually it is in the game, but for some weird reason they flinch when they get hit by smaller guns and not by bigger guns, but maybe that's kinda realistic

An example of where this is shown?

 

[brokenjago]

Yeah........ exactly where is this shown?

 

[moppe]

Somebody mailed this to valve?

 

[Daiceman9]

Doesn't make sense to me that they would release it *after* it ships, it seems it would be fairly simple to code in. And why are they using a dated version of Havok anyways?

-edit-

This is sorta what we've been talking about, from the Havok website.

Yes, but if you look it says NEW, rember they are using an older virsion of Havok, before 2.0

 

[Apos]

They aren't using an older version of Havok per se. They and the Havok guys have been working together developing new stuff for the game. There isn't really a distinct engine relation as in Havok 1 and Havok 2: they take what they need, when it's available, and work with the Havok guys to modify it to their needs.

 

[Tlaloc]

it makes shooting a gun look (ie: feel) like it has no effect on the enemy... imo this is really bad

 

[MuadDib]

You people are crazy. I was shooting a combine soldier with a pistol in the leak not five minutes ago. They DO 'flintch' when you shoot em.
Maybe your confusing this with 'death animations'? Cos they do just kinda collapse once they die

 

[Jadewolf5675]

You people are crazy. I was shooting a combine soldier with a pistol in the leak not five minutes ago. They DO 'flintch' when you shoot em.
Maybe your confusing this with 'death animations'? Cos they do just kinda collapse once they die

Hi, welcome to the boards!

Watch the E3 2k4 videos, this is what most of this discussion is based upon. It is best shown in the first buggy video when drives to the house and he hits a combine who goes crashing through the fence etc....The firefight after that explicitly shows that they have no reaction when they get hit by bullets.

By the way, you don't really expect us to run this discussion based on whats in the beta, do you?

 

[MuadDib]

I haven't watched the e3 2k4 vids cos I don't want to spoil it for myself. I though e3 2k3 did enough of that already. I can't really comment on whats in the vids, but I don't reckon its a feature that they'd purposely REMOVE after already having it in.
Who knows why it doesn't happen in the videos, but it does in the leak. - to combine anyway, zombies don't seem to have the same reaction