Social Security

[Bodacious]

Also, participate in the entire discussion not just when you feel you could chime in and then when you are proven wrong not show up until a time you feel you can chime in again.

maybe I have been busy, I am at work. I also participated in some other threads around here, too.

Bsides, I have no desire to continue a discussion with someone who won't admint wrongdoing when proven wrong.

 

[Scoobnfl]

You thinking 65K isn't much is exactly what I am talking about when I say you guys are out of touch with reality and what happens there. I considered myself wealthy when my parents started making about $35K together. Compare that to the 20K most families get in poor homes. I will get in to college later in this post as I want to address it at once..

$65K divided amng 6 people with 2 cars, insurance etc... is not alot of money.

So you don't think sitting in front of a fryer for 70 or so hours a week is hard work?

I've worked every job you can work at in a restaurant, from busser to manager and all points in between, I know being a fry cook sucks, it's hard thankless shytte work. It pays the bills, or a portion of them at least. I have lots of respect for people that work as opposed to those that won't.

Look at all of the illegal immigrants we have here, working jobs that americans won't do.

IT'S EASY TO NOT WORK COMPARED TO HAVING TO WORK HARD. That in addition to strong family values among immigrant families is why many that come here become successful and surpass those that suck on the govt. tit, complaining that the govt. doesn't do enough for them.


for what it's worth I imagine it's pretty tough and hard work being a vascualr surgeon, is it your contention that the fry cook and the heart surgeon make the same amount of $$$$$?

Get some skills and get a better job, I wish it was as easy as saying it. I think you really need to spend some time in a poor family. The fact is that many people have problems that keep them from getting those skills, especially in our system.

There you go wishing it was easy again Should we make pro sports easier to get into because all of the little kids who dream of being a pro athlete?

Nothing worth having comes easy. Take the easy chick you meet at a bar, take home and knock the cheese out of. Is she worth having? No, that's why ya sneak out sometime during the night and never call her. There is no way you can mandate success, especially when you enable people to live on welfare permanently, it just won't happen.

Hard work and a committment to success with proper planning will get you what you want. You may not be able to keep up with the Joneses while you're adhering to your plan for success but that is not the problem of the govt. or our society. Or is there a 2 car garage and $100K per year guarantee somewhere in the constitution?

Let me ask you something else, you say your grandparents told you about good credit. You were lucky because of this, you could have just as easily ended up in the womb of some deadbeat mother. Do you think the parents of these poor kids who declared bankruptcy give their children the same lecture?

Your parents also always told you that school is extremely important, a lot more important than any crappy job at the time. Right? This is not the case in areas where parents want their kids to help out in supporting the family by getting a job and dropping out of school. In most of these households college is out of the question and the parents never even mention it, nor do the kids teachers or peers.

I could go on for another huge essay about the other influances these people have in their life but I think you get my point about how the people you are around shape your life. Now, by your logic we shouldn't do anything to help these people get out of poverty because they are simply lazy, there is nothing more to it.

Dude, again, wake up, it is as unequal as it can get. Are you honestly trying to say that a baby that is born to a crackhead mother has the same opportunities as a rich white baby born to a family making 65K a year?

Last time I checked Jesse Jackson was a very respected person that came up through very hard work. But simply because he wants to help these people and doesn't agree with your ideology he is a dirtbag? Al Shapton, I won't defend as I do not like him to a degree.

Also, I'm glad you don't think 6 years is very long when you don't have to deal with that. Trust me, when your mother is crying because they can't get you what you need and desire 6 years is an eternity. Luckily when we were going through this I was very young so I didn't get a chance to get in to drugs and crime like most that lived around me did. Many of my friends from those days are working in crappy dead end jobs or are in jail. Now that I look back on it, I used to comit stupid crimes in my neighborhood because of the people around me; as soon as I moved away from those people that magically instantly stopped. So I wonder if the people around me actually did have something to do with it. And I was the lucky one because my parents pushed me, many of my friends at the time only got regular asskickings from their parents.

So maybe this will help you understand that the problem is a lot more complicated than just lazyness.

With that said I do not agree with democrats fully on welfare. I know that the system is broken because many people are getting money when they shouldn't. But what do you expect when they can make more money from welfare than they can at a job. I fully support reforming the system where people still have a lot of benefits, but I think those benefits should be in the form of education and jobs. So I think the democrats have the right idea but they are screwing it up because they aren't willing to regulate the system.

Republicans on the other hand realize that there is a problem with people getting money that shouldn't get it but instead of working on that they want to eliminate everything so they will save a couple dollars in taxes on their pay checks. This is definitely not the right solution and if anything I would rather have the democrat solution until we can come up with something that works.

blah blah blah......

anyone can be a victim if they want to.

people that do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. (c'mon don't you know any girls that continuously date the wrong guys)

what is really funny is that you think I was born rich, and somehow had a silver spoon up my rear........ I have a good strong family, that believes in hard work and creating your own opportunities, that's the difference, I've never heard anyone in my family complain that the govt. isn't doing enough for them, mainly because they're aware that they are not the govts. responsibility.

also I have friends that I grew up with that were killed in drug related crimes, incarcerated for drug offenses, addicted to meth, coke...... alcoholics, abusers and victims of abuse..... and yes I believe that most of them brought it upon themselves.

And as for committing crimes I believe that your desire to fit in is what caused you to do that, I've never really been one to get sucked into peer pressure, just lucky that way I guess.

and again when you consider the amount of illegal aliens we have here doing jobs that american citizens won't do....... I'd say laziness and the entitlement mentality that 40 years and 8 trillion $$$$$$$$$ of Johnsons great society has creeated has alot to do with it.

 

[No Limit]

$65K divided amng 6 people with 2 cars, insurance etc... is not alot of money.

Exactly my point, you had 2 cars and insurance, many families in this country don't have that same luxury.

I've worked every job you can work at in a restaurant, from busser to manager and all points in between, I know being a fry cook sucks, it's hard thankless shytte work. It pays the bills, or a portion of them at least. I have lots of respect for people that work as opposed to those that won't.

Look at all of the illegal immigrants we have here, working jobs that americans won't do.

IT'S EASY TO NOT WORK COMPARED TO HAVING TO WORK HARD. That in addition to strong family values among immigrant families is why many that come here become successful and surpass those that suck on the govt. tit, complaining that the govt. doesn't do enough for them.


for what it's worth I imagine it's pretty tough and hard work being a vascualr surgeon, is it your contention that the fry cook and the heart surgeon make the same amount of $$$$$?

I agree with you on the work ethic, but you are somewhat missing my point. I am saying many people are forced to work these crappy jobs endlessly, these people are definetly not lazy and I have a lot of respect for them. You say they should go to school to get trained; how can someone go to school in addition to working 60-70 hours a week to survive? If these people are in fact lazy and it is their fault they are in such a crappy job why don't they simply go to school if its so easy? I don't know anyone that wouldn't trade a frying pan for school work.

anyone can be a victim if they want to.

Many times you have no control over being a victim as I went in to detail on in my post. Are you telling me that if you grew up in a home where nobody gave a shit about you and your education and your good credit you would be as successful as you are today?

what is really funny is that you think I was born rich, and somehow had a silver spoon up my rear........ I have a good strong family, that believes in hard work and creating your own opportunities, that's the difference, I've never heard anyone in my family complain that the govt. isn't doing enough for them, mainly because they're aware that they are not the govts. responsibility.

You were born in to a good family as was I, some people aren't that lucky.

also I have friends that I grew up with that were killed in drug related crimes, incarcerated for drug offenses, addicted to meth, coke...... alcoholics, abusers and victims of abuse..... and yes I believe that most of them brought it upon themselves.

Really? These people start using meth or whatever drugs because of hard times in their life, usually it is stupid but after a couple months of hard use it is too late to stop. Are you telling me that since they f-cked up once we should never offer them any help? If these people can simply quit doing drugs why do we have so many smokers around that don't quit even after they get cancer or whatever else.

and again when you consider the amount of illegal aliens we have here doing jobs that american citizens won't do....... I'd say laziness and the entitlement mentality that 40 years and 8 trillion $$$$$$$$$ of Johnsons great society has creeated has alot to do with it.

Again, I didn't say the system was perfect and I do think it needs reform. However, getting rid of social help for these people (which Republicans do want to do) is a horrible idea that would ruin this country.

 

[Bodacious]

I am saying many people are forced to work these crappy jobs endlessly.

No one in the US is forced to do anything they don't want unless they are subdued by someone superior and it is against their will.

People make choices. Instead of finishing high school, applying for grants/financial aid to go to college they decided to do whatever else and are now regretting not doing that.

I seriously doubt a fast food chain allows 30 hors a week overtime with the simple job of being a fry cook. Your accusation that someone works 70 hours a week as a fry cook is ludacris. It would be possible that someone had two jobs doing that, but they have no reason to complain if that is the case.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Exactly my point, you had 2 cars and insurance, many families in this country don't have that same luxury..

I agree, it was hard work and frugality that allowed my parents to get them.

I agree with you on the work ethic, but you are somewhat missing my point. I am saying many people are forced to work these crappy jobs endlessly, these people are definetly not lazy and I have a lot of respect for them. You say they should go to school to get trained; how can someone go to school in addition to working 60-70 hours a week to survive? If these people are in fact lazy and it is their fault they are in such a crappy job why don't they simply go to school if its so easy? I don't know anyone that wouldn't trade a frying pan for school work...

you are missing my entire point...... i never said, implied, nor do i believe it is easy

i worked 3 jobs for a combined total averaging 50 hours a week, took a minimum of 18 hours per quarter which averaged a little less than 4 hours of class time per day, couple that with 3 hours of studying per day and that's 85 hours a week working to achieve my goal of a college education, does that sound easy? please let me assure you that it wasn't.

Many times you have no control over being a victim as I went in to detail on in my post. Are you telling me that if you grew up in a home where nobody gave a shit about you and your education and your good credit you would be as successful as you are today?.

I would like to think so. My wife was born into a family of addiction and saw the chaos she was brought up in and resented it. She made herself the success she is today by her actions alone and the love of 1 of her grandmothers. It can be done, again it is not easy.

You were born in to a good family as was I, some people aren't that lucky.

true but no excuse...... unless you want to discount the people who achieve success on their own by refusing to be victims of circumstance.

Really? These people start using meth or whatever drugs because of hard times in their life, usually it is stupid but after a couple months of hard use it is too late to stop. Are you telling me that since they f-cked up once we should never offer them any help? If these people can simply quit doing drugs why do we have so many smokers around that don't quit even after they get cancer or whatever else.

addiction is a bitch.

I do not know the reasons that they started using drugs, nor do I care. It's no secret that they are addictive and thus the likelihood of becoming an addict is overwhelmingly likely. (gotta love that it won't happen to me mentality) Addiction with crack cocaine and crank, most of the time occurrs within hours and days not months.

Again, I didn't say the system was perfect and I do think it needs reform. However, getting rid of social help for these people (which Republicans do want to do) is a horrible idea that would ruin this country.

again I do not advocate getting rid of social help.......... I advocate empowering rather than enabling.

 

[No Limit]

again I do not advocate getting rid of social help.......... I advocate empowering rather than enabling.

Well, honestly I don't know where you stand; can you explain simply what kind of social programs you think our government should offer? There is a good chance I will agree with you after reading your post.

I think the biggest problem is nobody in government is willing to address this issue, be it Democrat or Republican. If Democrats had their way we would all be living off government handouts and if Republicans had their way millions more would be in poverty right now. I am just looking for a politician that is willing and able to balance this.

 

[No Limit]

i worked 3 jobs for a combined total averaging 50 hours a week, took a minimum of 18 hours per quarter which averaged a little less than 4 hours of class time per day, couple that with 3 hours of studying per day and that's 85 hours a week working to achieve my goal of a college education, does that sound easy? please let me assure you that it wasn't.

I'm sure it wasn't easy, I can't even begin to imagine how much work that is. However, you also have to factor in the fact that you didn't have anyone you had to support (I could be wrong, please correct me if I am). You do agree with me that working 60 hours a week, going to school for another 10, and supporting a baby at the same time would make it much harder, right? So do you think that these people should be given some kind of social help from our government to make it easier on them? Obviously they are determined to succeed as they are working very hard.

 

[No Limit]

A great article about republicans scaring you in to thinking the system is a lot worse than it really is:

http://www.factcheck.org/article302.html

Yeah, lets just throw a figure out there, any figure. If anyone questions it we can say it is over an infinate time period.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Well, honestly I don't know where you stand; can you explain simply what kind of social programs you think our government should offer? There is a good chance I will agree with you after reading your post..

sure. I do not believe in enabling people to live in poverty by giving them a meager subsistance on which they will adjust to live on. i.e. any housing project anywhere in this country there will be some people, black/white/hispanic that do nothing but live in their section 8 rathole and collect their foodstamps, welfare check etc.... and do so for ever. This accomplishes nothing. These are the people that are drug abusers and horrible parents, whose children end up being the statistics we all dislike hearing about.

I believe that if you are trying to better yourself, you deserve all the assistance available. If you're a college student/trade school student with dependents, free daycare, or drastically reduced daycare should be available. I like the idea of interest free loans for college, the govt. gets interest free loans from most taxpayers all year long, so why not give the same benefit to students. Remove the stumbling blocks, open doors and empower people to better themselves as opposed to enbaling them to live in poverty. I'm sure this would cost more than the current system of enablement that we have, but this would produce a lasting and longterm effect that would benefit society.


I'm not as cold and heartless as you would like to believe, I believe in lending a hand rather than giving a handout.

If Democrats had their way we would all be living off government handouts and if Republicans had their way millions more would be in poverty right now.

yer 100% wrong if you believe that repubs want people to live in poverty. i do agree with your other sentiment though.

 

[No Limit]

yer 100% wrong if you believe that repubs want people to live in poverty. i do agree with your other sentiment though.

Come on, I am willing to admit that Democrats take handouts too far, I hope you will admit that Republicans don't want to do enough. I don't mean that they want to have people living in poverty but their policies will do that to a number of people in this country. Luckily there is a balance between Democrats and Repubs so we at least have a system that is workable.

believe that if you are trying to better yourself, you deserve all the assistance available. If you're a college student/trade school student with dependents, free daycare, or drastically reduced daycare should be available. I like the idea of interest free loans for college, the govt. gets interest free loans from most taxpayers all year long, so why not give the same benefit to students. Remove the stumbling blocks, open doors and empower people to better themselves as opposed to enbaling them to live in poverty. I'm sure this would cost more than the current system of enablement that we have, but this would produce a lasting and longterm effect that would benefit society.


I'm not as cold and heartless as you would like to believe, I believe in lending a hand rather than giving a handout.

I never said or implied that you are heartless and don't intend to. I agree with everything you said. I have quite a few things I want to add but will get in to that a little later, it's lunch time.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Come on, I am willing to admit that Democrats take handouts too far, I hope you will admit that Republicans don't want to do enough. I don't mean that they want to have people living in poverty but their policies will do that to a number of people in this country. Luckily there is a balance between Democrats and Repubs so we at least have a system that is workable.


I never said or implied that you are heartless and don't intend to. I agree with everything you said. I have quite a few things I want to add but will get in to that a little later, it's lunch time.

:thumbs: