Socialist society anyone?

[Dedalus]

ShadowFox, when you refer to impossible i understand you. because the people of today are too inane to work towards that. how can you blindly write off the next few generations of humanity? the last couple of generations have been filled by self-concerned busybodies. concerned with self gratification. so yeah you're right, today's society is not ready at all. which is why i think we all need to die. i get on my knees and pray for nuclear holocaust when thinking about money hungry self-serving morons :/

anyway, let's leave it for our kids. we can only pass down the idea of a better society and they can play it out.


EDIT: Bill Hicks say, "human evolution didn't stop with us growing a thumb dude, it's still happening and will continue happening no matter how much moola you invest in me staying an ape for the rest of my life".

 

[clarky003]

Its all about human nature tho, isn't it- for a Utopia to succede, *everyone* has to want it, and if that were the case, then everyone would put the needs of others before themselves

so it really has to be attractive to everyone naturally, no buttering it up like many politcal persuations do, I mean youd have the whole 3rd world behind you anyway right, , lol

 

[clarky003]

ShadowFox, when you refer to impossible i understand you. because the people of today are too inane to work towards that. how can you blindly write off the next few generations of humanity? the last couple of generations have been filled by self-concerned busybodies. concerned with self gratification. so yeah you're right, today's society is not ready at all. which is why i think we all need to die. i get on my knees and pray for nuclear holocaust when thinking about money hungry self-serving morons :/

anyway, let's leave it for our kids. we can only pass down the idea of a better society and they can play it out.

future generations need to be educated differently, capitalisim hits us in schools, and thats when you either find it immoral, or become an evil git, hell bent on screwing everyone over, for a girlfriend and lots of cash so he can laugh at his fellow humans, ' look at me im rich'

but do you deserve it? and does it really make you feel good, its all just a farce afterall.

lol

 

[Goobers]

I think that Humanity will be able to evolve out of the selfishness that it generally posesses, as the true extent of the selfishness becomes evident in the future when all of the world's food is in the richest countries, and the rest are wiped out by starvation

 

[clarky003]

I think that Humanity will be able to evolve out of the selfishness that it generally posesses, as the true extent of the selfishness becomes evident in the future when all of the world's food is in the richest countries, and the rest are wiped out by starvation

that would be a sad sad day.

selfishness derives from the basic instinct of survival,.. an automatic feature, but you can morally override that with your higher brain if you have the power, and you do, very much so.

 

[alehm]

Based on human history, there is no evolution towards a Utopian society. Our history is an endless tapestry of rape, torture, war, genocide, starvation, death, and bloodshed. You think people in the past didn't know these things were wrong? The ability to commit these things are in us all, to some extent. We aren't all murderers, but I am convinced every human being is a liar. Some of you may say "sure I have told a lie before but I dont lie anymore" well the point is, you are still a liar.

I also believe most of if not all of us are theives. Most of us bend the rules and play with the truth to our agendas. Point is to suggest at some point in time we will begin birthing humans that can not tell a lie, be decietful, steal, or murder is kind of ridiculus.

But hey heres to hoping one day we will change but in the meantime I bet all you people will keep your paying job and doing things mostly for yourself and not the advancement of society. if any of you want to prove me wrong buy me a copy of Half Life 2.

 

[Goobers]

Ahh damn. We are all doomed. Well, can't fight the inevitable... Reaches for Big Mac...

 

[clarky003]

Based on human history, there is no evolution towards a Utopian society. Our history is an endless tapestry of rape, torture, war, genocide, starvation, death, and bloodshed. You think people in the past didn't know these things were wrong? The ability to commit these things are in us all, to some extent. We aren't all murderers, but I am convinced every human being is a liar. Some of you may say "sure I have told a lie before but I dont lie anymore" well the point is, you are still a liar.

I also believe most of if not all of us are theives. Most of us bend the rules and play with the truth to our agendas. Point is to suggest at some point in time we will begin birthing humans that can not tell a lie, be decietful, steal, or murder is kind of ridiculus.

But hey heres to hoping one day we will change but in the meantime I bet all you people will keep your paying job and doing things mostly for yourself and not the advancement of society. if any of you want to prove me wrong buy me a copy of Half Life 2.

how do you know it'll repeat itself constantly though, we are learning more about what we are everyday, that has to add.. and count for something

 

[lePobz]

I'm up for a socialist society, it's the way forward.

 

[Dalamari]

I really don't care, as long as I get to play HL2.

 

[Voodoo_Chile]

**WARNING**Impossible to follow rant coming up.

Capitolism is in my view based on 18th century economics where the poor were a resource to be exploited by the Already rich.This was simple the Medevil principle of royalty without the "Divine right of kings".This holds through today as big business are Kings elected by the new diety,money.They run the countries(They pay for political ads in form of donations and backing which in turn influeneces swing voters and then the elected pay them back by being sympathetic)
Now there is a flaw in the system,the foundation is no longer there.It(Capitolism) was founded on the exploiting of resources.These resources,with the exception of people are all but gone and we have this "promise" money that is nothing more then paper telling you that you have so much money which is backed by the Government.(Which is in turn owned by the businesses who pay the wages of the workers,see the cycle)
The lack of resources is gonna quickly,unless some other sources are found,de-rail the capitolism train.
Now there have been examples,during times of extreme hardship,of this type or similar society emerging.Take WW2 era Britan.The entire country geared towards the war,people working for low wages for the common good,with few complaints.(Though the gov. would have come down heavily on strikers)This wasnt a eutopia however a similar situation may arise on a global scale IF something were to threaten our exsistence.If an asteroid was headed for earth e would have about a century to prepare(Heard that somewhere)if that were to happen and it was released to the public after a short period of panic acceptance would emerge and the combined industrial power of the planet would be united.
Now if that were to happen,where people worked for low to no wages and were given all they needed to survive,after a century the children born into that type of world would accept it and listen fondly to the stories of the Old times however it wouldnt be something they would chase after.Once the threat had passed many of the true Capitolists would be dead,their empires taken by governments(Or a government)geared toword survival without the persuit of personal gain.
Now is the point of uncertainty in my mind,How would,could this socialist world continue without that threat to keep the workers in line?Would the Gov.(s) revert to the survivalist tendencies,and cling to their power OR turn the Industries to providing a better life for the people while continueing advancement of the race?

Now that is in my mind one of few possible scenario for a socialist government to come into being without massive bloodshed.Its future beyond its conception cannot be predicited with any degree of accuracy as it has never come up.Im probly wrong but who knows?One thing is certain,the way the world works now is too comfortable to the people living well for them to just change for the good of others.Also the way the world works now cannot continue.
We are entering interesting time,I hope you all realise that,you have to wonder that in a few years will it ever matter that HL2 was a year late?

End of rant,I'm sorry for subjecting you to it**WARNING**

 

[ShadowFox]

Well yes, the world is ripe for war. It could be decades, or it could be months away.

Society has nothing to do with whether a utopia would work or not. Humans are animals, much to the consternation of religious types, and thus we have basic animal instincts. One of which is self preservation. Humans are very social, but that doesn't override the need to survive.

 

[Dedalus]

Well yes, the world is ripe for war. It could be decades, or it could be months away.

Society has nothing to do with whether a utopia would work or not. Humans are animals, much to the consternation of religious types, and thus we have basic animal instincts. One of which is self preservation. Humans are very social, but that doesn't override the need to survive.

you missed the boat there mate.

humans haven't stopped evolving. everything evolves, and sooner or later human nature will change. i mean, take the first cavemen who decided to form villages and cities and work together. who's to say there won't be another step in our evolution. it's a very narrow minded view you're taking.

like i said, at this moment in time, your statement is correct for about 90% of the human populace. but it is 0% correct for the future populace, and we are indeed talking about a socialist society for the future, so there's no point mentioning human nature as there is every chance it will have altered by then.

 

[falconwind]

Socialism is a noble ideal, but it is when you try to put it into practice that things fall apart.

Socialism ideals are nothing more than equality, credit where credit's due, and compassion. Socialism is the ideal of the idealist, or the little guy. It's the worker's dream, where they live well because they work well. Russia is not a good example of Socialism (it's communism). They're system was flawed from the start, as the majority of russians at the time where not workers, but peasants. And socialism is rule by the working class.

As well, Russia was an island of socialism in a sea of capitalism. Even when China, Cuba, and North Korea turned communist, this had little effect. More or less, they stuck together, but they also had different versions of communism to suit their own agendas. Also, they were rather poor countries at the time, and didn't have the economic capacity and revenue to support their governments and people comfortably. Instead of spreading the wealth, they ended up having to spread the poverty. Embargoes and hostility from the capitalist countries further hampered their prosperity, which was after all the point.

Capitalist countries feared the red menace because anyone with money would not benefit from it. Only the poor and the working class benefit from socialism, whereas the ruling class and the wealthy pick up the tab. This is, of course, unacceptable to any well paid CEO, Senator, or Congressman. Communism just doesn't work, because of the rest of the world being capitalist, and because of human nature (selfishness).

For a society to become socialist, it's government needs to be selfless. The people in power have to agree to spread the wealth (assuming there is wealth to spread), so that the less fortunate are not left behind and that everyone lives comfortably. The homeless man on the street gets a home and health care, and the Bill Gates has to sell his home, buy a regular sized apartment, and give the rest to the government so they can buy more homes for more homeless people. The paradox is that wealthy people control the government, directly and indirectly, and would not commit suicide in that way.

The only way that a socialist country could survive without raiding the wealthy's bank vaults is that they were incredibly wealthy on their own.
A country such as the US, could easily convert to a capitalist/socialist type society economically speaking, if they were so inclined. The hundred of billions of dollars spent on their military alone could do wonders for the poor, infirm, and less fortunate. Politcally, it has a snowball's chance in hell.

Socialism, in the current world, is a romantic impossibility. At least, in the strict definition of the word according to Marx.

I consider myself a socialist by principle, and a capitalist by practice. If it were ever to happen, society would have to defeat a powerful mentality: "Look out for number one."

 

[ShadowFox]

humans haven't stopped evolving. everything evolves, and sooner or later human nature will change. i mean, take the first cavemen who decided to form villages and cities and work together. who's to say there won't be another step in our evolution. it's a very narrow minded view you're taking.

Not necessarily. Every animal has the inherent instinct for survival. There is no reason to suspect Humans will suddenly evolve beyond it. It could be theorized that without a survival impulse our species would be doomed.

Besides, I don't think humans will be around long enough to evolve so dramatically.