South American countries unite to counter US influence

[DeusExMachina]

"Now, for the first time, there are three of us - I believe that, one day, all [Latin American] countries can be here"

The pact was signed in Cuba by Bolivian President Evo Morales, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and their host Fidel Castro.

The initiative, the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas, was drawn up by Cuba and Venezuela.

Mr Morales, an ally of both Mr Castro and Mr Chavez, decided to join it after his election last December.

The initiative - known by its Spanish acronym Alba - is being promoted as a socialist alternative to the Washington-backed Free Trade Area of the Americas.

The deal aims to reduce or eliminate tariffs between the three countries. But apart from this, it is very unlike conventional trade agreements, the BBC's Stephen Gibbs in Havana says.

Participants have vowed to work towards the eradication of illiteracy and the expansion of employment.

Cuba has promised to help Bolivia provide free eye treatment to those Bolivians who otherwise would not be able to afford it.

Venezuela has agreed to provide at preferential rates all the subsidised oil Bolivia requires for its domestic consumption.

More takers?

Our correspondent says closer integration between oil-rich Venezuela and gas-rich Bolivia will give the new pact added weight.

The question now is who else they can persuade to join, he adds.

After the signing, Fidel Castro said: "Now, for the first time, there are three of us - I believe that, one day, all [Latin American] countries can be here."

After his arrival in Cuba on Friday, Mr Morales said the meeting was a was a "historic gathering of three generations and three revolutions".

Mr Chavez has vowed to create economic and political unity in South America without the help of Washington.

Earlier this month he took Venezuela out of the South American trade bloc, the Andean Community of Nations, saying it was overly aligned with the US.

I'm always for individualism. And, I love South America.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"Now, for the first time, there are three of us - I believe that, one day, all [Latin American] countries can be here"





I'm always for individualism. And, I love South America.

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

 

[<RJMC>]

I really havent paying atention to that cuz I dont see too much nationals news but that means the USA and USA companies cant sell things here?

 

[gick]

I'd be pretty happy about this if it wasnt for the fact that Castro and Chavez are involved.

 

[15357]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

QFT.

 

[Gray Fox]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

These regimes where put there by democratic or by massive supprt by the population, unlike the many US installed regimes over the years.

 

[Sulkdodds]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

If they really are committed to raising living standards and stuff...then yes, they do represent the interests of their people. What's so oppressive about them anyway (That's not a rhetorical question)?

Participants have vowed to work towards the eradication of illiteracy and the expansion of employment.

\o/
Now Bolivia just has to solve the problem of 25% of its population not having access to clean water because it costs them 9 months wages to get it installed.

 

[Ome_Vince]

If Fidel wants to screw America, why doesnt he simply send another few thousand criminals as so called "refugees" to the USA

 

[kirovman]

What's so oppressive about them anyway (That's not a rhetorical question)?

They oppress US interests!

 

[DeusExMachina]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

The countries are looking to help one another with each other's problems. Whether it be through medical care, ending illiteracy, and ending unemployment.

 

[15357]

They are still evil! They don't believe in free trade! EVIL! TO THE BONE!

 

[CptStern]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

you're starting to sound like Numbers ...I call poppycocks on your socialist/communist utopia theory. They have a very legitimate reason for doing this: the free trade agreement is a sham because the US doesnt honour any agreements/rulings. Also they trade in oil without tariffs so extending that to other products make perfect sense. I actually hope for their success and wish that canada would join them (in limited scope) and scuttle the free trade agreement with the US


numbers: the US doesnt believe in free trade either

 

[Flyingdebris]

I can't speak for any country other than Cuba. But my whole family is from there. Castro is a total dick and his government is a corrupt piece of crap.

As for the "massive support of the population," sort of. Castro during the revolution promised democratic elections. Then after he took power he pretty much said "we don't need no democratic elections." Currently Cuba is a shit hole where little girls are often put into prostitution by their own families to help make ends meet.

I recently talked to a distant relative of mine a few months back who had recently emmigrated from Cuba. He said that he has no memory of the real Cuba, all he's known is the soviet style olive green crap that is everywhere. Also there's the whole, if you are "counter revolutionary" then to jail with you.
And the fact that they intentionally spread misinformation like saying that if you go to live in America you can be guaranteed to be a drug addict or shot just walking down any street.

So yeah, F*ck Castro and any of his goddamn commie plans.

 

[Ennui]

Whatever the people want.

It remains to be seen if this is what they want, though.

 

[15357]

numbers: the US doesnt believe in free trade either

WHAT!?

Then.... what good is there left in the world?

*goes into the mountains*

SEriously, what?

 

[DeusExMachina]

I hope Liberal Democracy overtakes the globe one day just so I can see your reaction .

 

[Gray Fox]

I can't speak for any country other than Cuba. But my whole family is from there. Castro is a total dick and his government is a corrupt piece of crap.

As for the "massive support of the population," sort of. Castro during the revolution promised democratic elections. Then after he took power he pretty much said "we don't need no democratic elections." Currently Cuba is a shit hole where little girls are often put into prostitution by their own families to help make ends meet.

I recently talked to a distant relative of mine a few months back who had recently emmigrated from Cuba. He said that he has no memory of the real Cuba, all he's known is the soviet style olive green crap that is everywhere. Also there's the whole, if you are "counter revolutionary" then to jail with you.
And the fact that they intentionally spread misinformation like saying that if you go to live in America you can be guaranteed to be a drug addict or shot just walking down any street.

So yeah, F*ck Castro and any of his goddamn commie plans.

That is true, but was it honestly any better under Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I hope Liberal Democracy overtakes the globe one day just so I can see your reaction .

Numbers: "Noooo! Communism!"

 

[<RJMC>]

dont think all the people here suports the presidents

chavez is the litle lover imitator of castro

and things are not geting pretier here

is not about suporting other countrys is about keep THEYR empire

 

[Solaris]

dont think all the people here suports the presidents

chavez is the litle lover imitator of castro

and things are not geting pretier here

is not about suporting other countrys is about keep THEYR empire

Chavez is a Hero.

I'm serious, at first I just thought so becuase I read it in the socialist worker, then badger implored me to do some research of my own, which I did. This just trippled his awesomeness. For Instance

-Chávez was sworn in as president on February 2, 1999, at the age of 44. Among his first acts was the launching of Plan Bolivar 2000, which included road building, housing construction, and mass vaccination.[23] Chávez also halted planned privatizations of, among others, the national social security system, aluminum industry holdings, and the oil sector.[24]

-In 2003, Chávez created Mission Guaicaipuro (October 12, 2003), Mission Robinson (July 2003), Mission Sucre (late 2003), and Mission Ribas (November 2003). In July 2004, speaking to 50,000 formerly illiterate Mission Robinson beneficiaries, Chávez stated that "it was truly a world record: in a year, we have graduated 1,250,000 Venezuelans".

Source, the blue links don't work so don't try and click.

 

[<RJMC>]

Chavez is a Hero.

I'm serious, at first I just thought so becuase I read it in the socialist worker, then badger implored me to do some research of my own, which I did. This just trippled his awesomeness. For Instance

-Chávez was sworn in as president on February 2, 1999, at the age of 44. Among his first acts was the launching of Plan Bolivar 2000, which included road building, housing construction, and mass vaccination.[23] Chávez also halted planned privatizations of, among others, the national social security system, aluminum industry holdings, and the oil sector.[24]

-In 2003, Chávez created Mission Guaicaipuro (October 12, 2003), Mission Robinson (July 2003), Mission Sucre (late 2003), and Mission Ribas (November 2003). In July 2004, speaking to 50,000 formerly illiterate Mission Robinson beneficiaries, Chávez stated that "it was truly a world record: in a year, we have graduated 1,250,000 Venezuelans".

Source, the blue links don't work so don't try and click.

and you think theyr educationg was good?

dont come whit "but I read that.." believe it from someone of the country
there are more people whitout jobs,more crime,more shit

so believe it from me,from someone who hav lived in the country since it was born and hav saw everything since the year he unfortunately get in the presidence and all what he hav been doing and whats hav been hapening

 

[Solaris]

and you think theyr educationg was good?

dont come whit "but I read that.." believe it from someone of the country
there are more people whitout jobs,more crime,more shit

so believe it from me,from someone who hav lived in the country since it was born and hav saw everything since the year he unfortunately get in the presidence and all what he hav been doing and whats hav been hapening

Yes, I value education alot, everyone no matter what they're intellect should be provided with a decent education.

And unfourtunatly livign there doesn't make you right. If it did, I'd be able to win Tony Blair is crap arguments with Americans by default.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I think I'd believe someone who actually lives there over a wikipedia article.

 

[Solaris]

+the Socialist Press.



Hell even the Guardian praises him.
The fact that he has a computer suggests he might be upper middle class, unlike most venusualans. The rich don't like sharing.

Though I might be wrong.

 

[DeusExMachina]

No offense, but of course the Socialist Press is going to praise him. I'm sure if it were around in the earlier 20th century, they'd be praising Stalin too.

Not that I'm comparing them, mind you. But, you and I really don't know what goes on down there. RJMC would know a lot more than us.

 

[Solaris]

No offense, but of course the Socialist Press is going to praise him. I'm sure if it were around in the earlier 20th century, they'd be praising Stalin too.

Many damn brave socialists were murdered becuase they refused to praise him.

Not that I'm comparing them, mind you. But, you and I really don't know what goes on down there. RJMC would know a lot more than us.

Take out the adjectives and your left with the facts.

Though he's not giving us much to work with besides:
"Hes shit"

 

[DeusExMachina]

Maybe he's a victim of anti-anti-propoganda ?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yes, I value education alot, everyone no matter what they're intellect should be provided with a decent education.

And unfourtunatly livign there doesn't make you right. If it did, I'd be able to win Tony Blair is crap arguments with Americans by default.

It doesn't matter in the least if you can't do a single thing with it. I can't believe you put that oppressive piece of shit on a pedestal.

 

[DeusExMachina]

It doesn't matter in the least if you can't do a single thing with it. I can't believe you put that oppressive piece of shit on a pedestal.

But he might be a good guy. You can't believe everything you read, we just don't know D:

I want to visit Cuba, but...it's illegal. So alas, I cannot.

 

[<RJMC>]

you want to know I stoped care about this a year ago
because is ****ed up

is someone want to make a protest against the goverment,bam to jail,or agresion by the militars

there are people that are in jail because they worked in some sectors of the goverment and they where not whit chavez so,bam to jail,and are still in jail

"but in wikipedia say..."
screw wikipedia
and to make sure nothing like that happens again,the goverment aproves a law to "proctect the childrens from inapropiated material like violence" which inside the articles there is one that say that is forbiden any negative comentary against the goverment,so if the 8 pm humor show of the tv want to make fun of the president,the network will hav to pay a amount of money that will bring it to bankrupt
oh did I mentioned how chavez call the news media "terrorists" cuz they do things like show images of chavez followers atacking protesters,and the reporters too to take out theyr cameras and videotapes?

maybe in wikipedia you will find it

 

[Ome_Vince]

I'm sure alot of oppressive regimes also did wonderfull things for their own citizens worthy of socialist praises Solaris...
but I'd say in this case isnt freedom of speech more important than "education", for..-->. what kind of educational quality do you expect to come from such a system?
Indoctrination?? Better not be educated, than educated full of mindless propaganda crap

 

[rAdIOhEaD]

Guys understand this, Chavez is killing us Venezuelan slowly, he created laws to control the media, now we can’t criticize him because he will close the channel network or the radio station that will dare to do that. Delinquency is running rampant these days, I bet you guys heard about the 3 Venezuelan-Canadians kids that where kidnapped and killed like a month ago, Chavez is giving away our money to Argentina, Bolivia and other many countries offering to help them with their debs, while in Venezuela our own Hospitals don’t have proper medical equipments and Doctors are underpaid, our own Money is controlled by the Government, we can’t not buy Dollars or foreign currencies unless we get specials permits, let’s say I want to use my credit card to buy something over the internet, well guess what? I can’t!!! How is that for a Democracy??
Our President is a populist bastard who tricked the poor people of my country (The vast Majority here) into thinking that he was the second coming of Christ, a “Messiah”, when he is just a violent guy without the slight less idea of how to lead a country, he and his henchmen are just resentful communist- wannabes. You can say then, “why he keeps winning elections?” well, 3 of the 5 people from the elections committee were chosen by him, so expect him to win next election in December, I hope he pays for all his crimes and all the civil rights violations he has committed here to my people, and I pray for merciful bullet too…

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

But he might be a good guy. You can't believe everything you read, we just don't know D:

I want to visit Cuba, but...it's illegal. So alas, I cannot.

He's not a good guy. Take a look at factual reports and statistics, laws he's passed and pushed, etc. It's not subjective things, it's just facts. Then form your own opinion, I'm 100% sure it will not have Chavez in a favorable light in the least.

 

[<RJMC>]

Guys understand this, Chavez is killing us Venezuelan slowly, he created laws to control the media, now we can’t criticize him because he will close the channel network or the radio station that will dare to do that. Delinquency is running rampant these days, I bet you guys heard about the 3 Venezuelan-Canadians kids that where kidnapped and killed like a month ago, Chavez is giving away our money to Argentina, Bolivia and other many countries offering to help them with their debs, while in Venezuela our own Hospitals don’t have proper medical equipments and Doctors are underpaid, our own Money is controlled by the Government, we can’t not buy Dollars or foreign currencies unless we get specials permits, let’s say I want to use my credit card to buy something over the internet, well guess what? I can’t!!! How is that for a Democracy??
Our President is a populist bastard who tricked the poor people of my country (The vast Majority here) into thinking that he was the second coming of Christ, a “Messiah”, when he is just a violent guy without the slight less idea of how to lead a country, he and his henchmen are just resentful communist- wannabes. You can say then, “why he keeps winning elections?” well, 3 of the 5 people from the elections committee were chosen by him, so expect him to win next election in December, I hope he pays for all his crimes and all the civil rights violations he has committed here to my people, and I pray for merciful bullet too…

thanks to add that

and is not just kidnaping,extortion is increasing too

it makes me really angry find people that sure dont even know where the country is in the map,and come saying that chavez is great
they hav fall in the traps he hav invented
cuz that remind me when there was a refendum,the venezuelans living in other country can vote in the embasys or places like that,and chavez sent followers to that places whit flags and stuff like that sure to make the people of that country believe that here we suporting him much,also people that voted all theyrs life in the country,needed to go to places like israel if they want theyr voted to be admited,however there is no need to mention the whole trap it was

 

[Revisedsoul]

They are still evil! They don't believe in free trade! EVIL! TO THE BONE!

america only belives in free trade when it benifits them

 

[Top Secret]

america only belives in free trade when it benifits them

No shit Sherlock. We don't believe in free trade because it doesn't benefit us.

Damn, sometimes I swear the US catches flack because it's convenient to stick "America/US" into a sentence.

If what you meant to say was "America only believes in free trade when it benefits them and nobody else."

Then I can see where you're coming from, however, if you are not a member of the US, and wish to not have free trade with us, then I suggest you elect officials who are not in support of it. If you can. Don't call us evil for watching our asses.

 

[dream431ca]

america only belives in free trade when it benifits them

Actually too much free trade is a very bad thing. Bush recently signed 12 or so third world countries in a free trade agreement with the USA. Now the USA can make products really cheap, but at a price. The US could lose jobs because of those agreements, because, now, they can pay pennies to the people working in the third world, when they had to pay 10 dollars an hour or more in the US. So some of the labor jobs will go to the third world countries and leave some americans jobless...so it's really a double edge sword....very cheap production, but a increase in unemployment.

 

[99.vikram]

Where I live free trade is another way to say "forced globalization and opening of markets". Not all economies can handle a sudden shift towards free trade. Local producers don't have the same tools that multinationals have, and the multinationals don't generate enough employment either. So if these countries want to help one another, I don't see what's wrong with that.

And corruption is not limited to socialist countries, it exists in most third-world countries, incl. the democratic ones.

 

[gick]

I didnt have a problem with Chavez until I found out about this.

Now I don't care how good his economic policies are, making it illegal to criticize the government is totally unforgivable under any circumstances. Solaris, can you really defend him even after such a violation of civil liberties.

 

[Solaris]

Spose, he's done some good shit, but he also looks like power hungry bastard as well.