South American countries unite to counter US influence

[Flyingdebris]

Actually although the cuban government before castro was indeed corrupt. People were not living in the deplorable state of poverty that they are now.

What castro did was basically cut out the soul of Cuba and replace it with a bunch of commie nonsense. Cuba used to be about night life, farmers, music, beaches, etc etc Now its slums, prostitution, food rations, and resorts that you cannot enter if you are a native cuban even if you somehow did have the cash.

So yeah things were better before

 

[Solaris]

-
What castro did was basically cut out the soul of Cuba and replace it with a bunch of commie nonsense.

Not communism in the slightest.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Chavez said Britain should hand over the Falklands to the Argintines.

Argentina has been probing the Falklands recently, but apperantly they do it every few years, and the British send a submarine to the area and the Argetines back off.

 

[Razor]

Chavez said Britain should hand over the Falklands to the Argintines.

Argentina has been probing the Falklands recently, but apperantly they do it every few years, and the British send a submarine to the area and the Argetines back off.

I would hope any invasion against the Falkland Islands by Argentina would be met with the same reaction that an Argentinian invasion against Cornwall would.

 

[<RJMC>]

I didnt have a problem with Chavez until I found out about this.

Now I don't care how good his economic policies are, making it illegal to criticize the government is totally unforgivable under any circumstances. Solaris, can you really defend him even after such a violation of civil liberties.

those are the links that you all should be reading

and believe me the "good" things he hav done are not that good,the education theyr "missions" are giving are crap

seriously stop whit the "but in wikipedia says he is great..." is bullshit
and how do you know those articles wasnt writed by the goverment itself? cuz remenber,everyone in the goverment is a follower of him

seriously solaris you should come here and ask the reporters about any information of what hav been going on since he get to presidence,you will not been so happy whit him

 

[Tr0n]

I love latin chicks. They're so hot.

 

[Solaris]

-
I would hope any invasion against the Falkland Islands by Argentina would be met with the same reaction that an Argentinian invasion against Cornwall would.

Why? OH NOES THEY R TAKING A TINY ISLAND OFF US IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE!!!

-Chavez said Britain should hand over the Falklands to the Argintines.

I would agree completely

 

[Mr Stabby]

But the people living there are British, and want to stay British

 

[Razor]

-
I would hope any invasion against the Falkland Islands by Argentina would be met with the same reaction that an Argentinian invasion against Cornwall would.

Why? OH NOES THEY R TAKING A TINY ISLAND OFF US IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE!!!

-Chavez said Britain should hand over the Falklands to the Argintines.

I would agree completely

The Falkland islands is made up entirely of English people going about their daily lives as any Englishman would...they are no different to the people living on the Isle Of Wight or the Isle Of Man other than the fact that they live 3000miles away. The Falkland Islands are also rich in natural resources such as oil, this is the only reason why Argentina want it but they were beaten once and they would be beaten again if they tried it again.

It is like Gibralta, English people living an English way of life and wanting nothing to do with Spain. If Argentina want the Falkland Islands, they should allow the British people on the Falkland islands to hold a democratic vote to decide whether then want to stay English or become Argentinian.

 

[CptStern]

It is like Gibralta, English people living an English way of life and wanting nothing to do with Spain.

nope:

Ethnic groups: Spanish, Italian, English, Maltese, Portuguese, German, North Africans

http://198.81.129.100/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gi.html

 

[Mr Stabby]

The Falkland islands is made up entirely of English people going about their daily lives as any Englishman would...they are no different to the people living on the Isle Of Wight or the Isle Of Man other than the fact that they live 3000miles away. The Falkland Islands are also rich in natural resources such as oil, this is the only reason why Argentina want it but they were beaten once and they would be beaten again if they tried it again.

It is like Gibralta, English people living an English way of life and wanting nothing to do with Spain. If Argentina want the Falkland Islands, they should allow the British people on the Falkland islands to hold a democratic vote to decide whether then want to stay English or become Argentinian.

You are confusing English with British

 

[Razor]

You are confusing English with British

They are English though aren't they?

 

[Mr Stabby]

most would probably be born on the falklands

 

[Ome_Vince]

From the pictures i've seen the Falklands looks like mini-england.

 

[gick]

The Falklands are a group of small, wet, grassy islands with bad weather and lots of sheep. Of course they're British.

 

[Sulkdodds]

-Chavez said Britain should hand over the Falklands to the Argintines.

I would agree completely

You do realise that, as Razor said, most of the inhabitants are British and wish to remain so? When the Argentines invaded and (among other things) made people drive on the right of the road, everybody kept on driving on the left anyway.

 

[Solaris]

The britians can leave.

 

[The Mullinator]

Free trade is a sham, and I do support individual thinking on such matters. However I can't see how this will end up helping the people in these south american countries. From what I can tell there will be nothing but an annoyed USA and a badly bruised and chaotic south america. There won't be any real winners in this and I suspect that these south american leaders are either delusional or are knowingly doing this hoping it will benefit their own ideological goals no matter the cost.

 

[CptStern]

No shit Sherlock. We don't believe in free trade because it doesn't benefit us.

Damn, sometimes I swear the US catches flack because it's convenient to stick "America/US" into a sentence.

If what you meant to say was "America only believes in free trade when it benefits them and nobody else."

Then I can see where you're coming from, however, if you are not a member of the US, and wish to not have free trade with us, then I suggest you elect officials who are not in support of it. If you can. Don't call us evil for watching our asses.

...despite signing a free trade agreement called NAFTA. Which really doesnt mean anything because you pick and choose which parts of the agreements you'll adhere to no matter how many ruling against you, you'll STIL refuse to abide by the rulings. Oh and incidentily the current president has something to do with the creation of NAFTA ...you'd think that with the spirit of the proposal ironed out by his daddy he'd at least respect the agreement

if I could reach back in time I'd bitchslap all 3 of them

 

[Mr Stabby]

The britians can leave.

On what grounds, do you justify removing britons from thier homes and livelyhoods, just becuase the argies want the Falklands.

 

[Solaris]

On what grounds, do you justify removing britons from thier homes and livelyhoods, just becuase the argies want the Falklands.

So the occupation of a random country would be justified if some settlers wanted to stay?

 

[Mr Stabby]

I suppose we should get all the Canadians, Australians, South Africans, Americans and New Zealanders, originally from Britain back then aswell.

 

[gick]

While we're at it, all you Angles and Saxons can bugger off back to Germany too.

 

[Solaris]

Just becuase people want to stay there doesn't mean there entitlled to do so.

 

[Mr Stabby]

like all those immigrants in Britain? should we deport them all?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Whoops.

Hey Solaris, Britain should invade France cause once upon a time we ruled part of it.
Who gives a shit about the people who live there now?

Also, why aren't we ruled by Italy? This is outrageous!

 

[Solaris]

-like all those immigrants in Britain? should we deport them all?
They're entitled to live there.

We still make people pay old debts, so we should pay back whats taken.
Not enough people live there to justify the deaths that would result in a war defending it.

 

[Mr Stabby]

that's a terrible analagy, it doesn't make any sense

 

[Razor]

-like all those immigrants in Britain? should we deport them all?
They're entitled to live there.

We still make people pay old debts, so we should pay back whats taken.
Not enough people live there to justify the deaths that would result in a war defending it.

What about all the natural resources as well and what do you say to the people who have spent their entire lives there born there, have family that are buried there, where exactly are you from anyway? And most of bloody South America is original from Portugal and Spain, so why not tell them to bugger off back to Portugal and Spain?

 

[Ome_Vince]

How about kicking all white blond people back to scandinavia, for thats where they originate
Its funny, the more history you read, the more you realise how rediculous the: "this is my land, my forefathers were here first 3000 years ago bweh!" is.
If you look at how many settlers, nomadic tribes, warbands, empires etc conquered, raped, took land, murdered inhabitants etc. its rediculous.
Its like a race going back in time "who was there first"
That doesnt make it right ofcourse, but for gods sake lets stop whining about land for a change

 

[Sulkdodds]

I find it ironic that Solaris oft complains about Palestinians getting kicked out of the place where they live by invading Israelis...

 

[kirovman]

Ah, but you're forgetting that the British and Israelis are evil imperialists.

 

[Dan]

These tools don't represent the interests of their people or South America. They want to create a new communist/socialist bloc and I'm sure the rest of South America will realize this and work to oust these three oppressive regimes through progressive democracy and pressure.

Except if you look at the history of "democracy" in South America as it has been forced upon them, you would realize how what you said would never happen. Che is Jesus in South America. Study up a bit on America's ****ups in South America in the 20th century.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

The way I know it, The media in venezuela did nothing but bag out Chavez and that I believe was due to the fact that the media was heavily influenced by american interests. So its understandable that he would create these provisions that supress the media. Also, an american backed coup of Persident Chavez was also enforced but it never materilised. Why? the people, and the amry backed Chavez and didn't allow it to happen. I don't know about the venezeualians on this site, because either they don't know their politics or they arent venezuealian.

 

[Ome_Vince]

You have any credible proof/sources of this Americans manipulating Venezuelan press?...
And even if American interests influenced the press, which is hilarious, this doesnt mean its "right" or "justified" for Chavez to supress the media, and ban any negative media towards him or his government..
Thats a one-way ticket towards a Dictatorship..

 

[dys4iK]

And unfourtunatly livign there doesn't make you right.

This has to be the best line I've heard in a while, discounting someone's argument from experience because they live in the country?

Wtf?

What sort of propaganda do you read regularily that you can use this sort of argument without blinking?

 

[<RJMC>]

The way I know it, The media in venezuela did nothing but bag out Chavez and that I believe was due to the fact that the media was heavily influenced by american interests. So its understandable that he would create these provisions that supress the media. Also, an american backed coup of Persident Chavez was also enforced but it never materilised. Why? the people, and the amry backed Chavez and didn't allow it to happen. I don't know about the venezeualians on this site, because either they don't know their politics or they arent venezuealian.

influenced?
the most american things you can see in the media here are americans tv show translated to english

seriously wtf are you reading?

all begin because in the media news they where showing posible proof of the big fraud that the referendum was ,and then one thing bring to another and this law appeared

seriously stop saying that you know everything,I live in the country and I hav see all that hapened

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

This has to be the best line I've heard in a while, discounting someone's argument from experience because they live in the country?

Wtf?

What sort of propaganda do you read regularily that you can use this sort of argument without blinking?

This was to solarisis original comment that living there doesnt make you right.

If you read the sticky in this forum about logical fallcies you would realise that the very first point there was this:

List of Logical Fallacies

1: Anecdotal Evidence:
Informal personal accounts taken as conclusive are not valid when they are unverified by other, valid information.

Hence Solarisis comment is compeletly valid.

Furthermore, I believe the question you posed to me should be something that you ask yourself. The amount of propaganda against Chavez ever since he even began to get power overwhelms the amount supporting him.

influenced?
the most american things you can see in the media here are americans tv show translated to english

seriously wtf are you reading?

all begin because in the media news they where showing posible proof of the big fraud that the referendum was ,and then one thing bring to another and this law appeared

seriously stop saying that you know everything,I live in the country and I hav see all that hapened

As I stated before, the Media is heavily influenced by american interests to get Chavez out of power. America wants to do this because, Chavez is underming the explotitive free trade policies that america had placed in venezuela under the puppet government that was there before Chavez. Chavez is instead, useing his oil rich country to support his own people and his south american neighbors.

You say that I am reading propaganda, but I have connections with a venezuealian solidarity group in australia, and not only that, I have personal friends who have been there and witnessed the revolution. I have also gathered information about Chavez's policie's benefit to the people of venezuela from various different sources, including the green left newspaper in australia and turkish television programs.

I ask you whether your reading, or more over watching propaganda? You tell me that the media news said this or that, but I'm telling you that the media in your country is propaganda against Chavez and his policies to put prohibitions on this propaganda against him, a very understandable thing to do.- maybe you should question where you are getting your information from. You said before in another post that you left all this venezuealian politics behind you, so are your accounts of what is happening in your country reliable if your not even interested in them? Maybe you are the one who is propaganderized and it is not me.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

You have any credible proof/sources of this Americans manipulating Venezuelan press?...
And even if American interests influenced the press, which is hilarious, this doesnt mean its "right" or "justified" for Chavez to supress the media, and ban any negative media towards him or his government..
Thats a one-way ticket towards a Dictatorship..

No I agree with you, it doesn't, All I am saying is his actions are justified because the media are understandibly getting in the way of what he is trying to do for his people.

I don't have any proof I can show you, But it is understandible that american interests are manipulating the media because before Chavez the media worked as a mouth peice for the puppet government there that did nothing but pass free trade policies that benefited the US at the expence of their own country.

You need to look at the historical context of this issue in order to attain a full understanding of what is happening.

This whole revolution is to counter the dominating US influence over south america in the first place, I mean its the title of this thread for chrissake.

 

[Ome_Vince]

No I agree with you, it doesn't, All I am saying is his actions are justified because the media are understandibly getting in the way of what he is trying to do for his people.

i bet ya Hitler and Stalin would say the exact same thing. "They're only doing it for the good of their own people."
Hitler also made a strong case out of blaiming England and France, whether he was right on that or not, it did not justify his actions..

Supressing the media for instance, cannot be justified, if Chavez wants to counter US influence in the media, he should use alternative "tactics".
This is exactly what the US wants, for now they can say: "hey, look, he's supressing the media, this dictator".

Further more, multiple accusations on human rights violations, electoral fraud, political repression against Chavez makes me not trust this, whatever his motives are. :S