Spies Are Impossible!!!

ktimekiller

ktimekiller

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Countless times, ive been killed by accidental fires, or by paranoid idiots spamming their weapons when they get out of spawn.

Whenever i try to infiltrate enemys base, there are always some paranoid idiot who spams his weapons from out of his base all the way to the battle, mostly pyros. Also, I often get killed because of misfires, or accidental bumps and whatnot.

Rant off.
 
Play something else until you think they're unparanoid, then try again. Such is the life of a spy... avoid the pyros. They're total dicks.
 
That is because you suck? No seriously, spy is good. It's my 2nd best class

1. Spy works best in less linear and more open maps
2. You got to use this combo
- Disguise yourself (into a engineer, a sniper, or a spy NOTHING ELSE!!!!)
- As you approach the base, turn invisible
- Go to a safe place and er..univisibalize/visualize your self
- As you walk around your men, call for a medic (this reinforces your status then and when)
- Sap a turret or take a kill (A BACKSTAB, stabem from behind, INSTAKILL), and turn invisible, change class and repeat

EASY!
 
i have no problem making people think im on their team. Problem is paranoid people spamming every person they see. and pyros who refuse to let go of their right click button as they come out of their spawn and corners. That cannot be avoided no matter how skilled.
 
So stay away from pyros.

They typically rush to the front lines anyways. Easy enough to circumvent them on most maps. If you have pyros methodically spamming their entire base, it's probably because you've been mucking about and now they're looking for you. Good time to go back to your own base, play a different class for a bit, and let their spy-paranoia die down.
 
If I see an Engineer running backwards towards _my_ turret dodging non-existent bullets I usually tend to blow 'em to bits.

Remember, when you're a spy you're not supposed to act like a spy.
 
It's really hard to, because you always want to turn around to see if their attention has gone somewhere else now or anything. Most people recognize that if you charge ahead, and then turn around, they should just rocket you in the face.

I hate soldiers and pyros though. Pyros are easy enough to avoid, but soldiers... BAM! Rocketshot.
 
It's the nature of the game. It's best to run behind a huge group of distracted enemies, uncloak behind them all then start backstabbing a few to ease the load on your teammates. You can't simply waltz into an area expecting instant kills.
 
Yes, distracted enemies are the best type - they're too worried about the direct threat to worry about the backstabs.

Medic/Heavy combos are always good to go for.
 
They're good for backing into a base though. Personally I always prefer cloaking to a secluded spot then charging forwards as a pyro. Short-range weapon means don't fire too early means backstab!

Honestly, the only disguises I use are pyro and demoman... which is kinda dumb.
 
TBH the only thing you want to avoid if anything is Scout (you dont move fast enough so its easy to spot), Heavy (its kinda a dead give away when you dont start up that bad ass machine gun) and Medic (people are going to get suspicous when you dont answer there medic calls).
 
They're not impossible, even with paranoid enemies.

All you have to do is take your time. Many people just use 1 cloak, when to be really successful, you should use atleast 2 to get into a good position. Alot of spies just act very 'obvious', by just deciding to run their way [disguised, no cloak] into the enemy base.

If you really cant manage, try a different class.

[And the Demo is also an OK class to disguise as]
 
Never disguise as a medic and scout, since:

there is no medic that doesn't use heal gun,
there is no scout that moves such slowly.
 
Sniper is best. Find a place were you see snipers, windows kick ass. Then strafe by the window. You won't be spychecked.

I do agree that spies need help, they need friendly fire to be on. The ability for a pyro to end you without even being suspicious is wrong.
 
Turning FF back on would result in the spies being overpowered.
 
Actually you can tell snipers, because real ones generally zoom in when they're using the weapon.

Nah, they're fine without friendly fire.
 
SionST said:
I do agree that spies need help, they need friendly fire to be on. The ability for a pyro to end you without even being suspicious is wrong.
Click to expand...

Friendly fire was never ever part of the game mechanic of TF2 and will never be re-introduced. Sure it would make it easier to be a spy, but it would completely nerf the heavy, the soldier, the demoman and the pyro, as well as spies on your own team.

Fact of the matter is, is that TF2 is a game whose core mechanic relies upon complete flexibility in terms of players class choice, dependent upon the challenge their team faces. Sure we all have our favourite classes, but when your finding the situation is such that your class isn't pulling his weight in a match, it's time to change up to something else. So as a spy you can't get near the turrets because of paranoid engineers and trigger happy pyros, then change up to a medic and team up with a heavy/soldier/demoman and tackle the problem with brute force. Losing teams are full of people who stuck to their 'favourite' class when it was abundantly clear the tide was against them.
 
Yeah i agree you need to be flexable, i pick the class i'm going to use on what the team needs/has. For example if there is aleady 1 or 2 spies there is no way in hell i'm going to pick spy, i'm pretty sure we dont need another one. That doesnt seem to stop people though lol!
 
Jintor said:
Actually you can tell snipers, because real ones generally zoom in when they're using the weapon.
Click to expand...

Those are crappy snipers. If you cannot quickly head shot someone you should not be a sniper. I almost never use the zoom feature on the sniper rifle.
 
soulslicer said:
- Disguise yourself (into a engineer, a sniper, or a spy NOTHING ELSE!!!!)

- As you walk around your men, call for a medic (this reinforces your status then and when)
Click to expand...

Spy is generally a bad disguise, it may work if things are hectic or if you need to uncloak and there's no cover to be found, but otherwise an undisguised spy (especially with the revolver out) is suspicious as hell. Also, don't run headlong at the enemy with your teammates while disguised as an enemy, do it as a friendly disguise or not at all. Hides your presence from the enemy team.

Don't scream for a medic randomly. If I see anyone at full health , ESPECIALLY a engineer, sniper or spy, it's very suspicious.

Never disguise as a scout (speed difference) or a medic (no ubercharge meter, and not healing is a giveaway, and also you're slightly slower than medics), EVER.

Engineer and sniper are probably the best while lurking at the back. Demoman is also good, as it's understandable why you don't shoot, as is pyro in open areas. All 4 of those are around the same speed as you too, so no loss (slight loss of speed as demo). Soldier and heavy mean a significant drop in speed for you, and they shoot a lot so it'll be suspicious when you aren't.

I'm one of about 5 people in TF2 who use friendly disguises when moving towards the enemy.

If you get spotted, it's usually best to retreat and try from a different angle. You can take out a couple of other classes depending on the conditions: other spies most of the time (when they're among your teammates), engineers / medics at range, snipers at range (strange though it may sound, you can wear them down while denying them a chance at a shot at you), scout if they're stupid as hell and stay back. Other classes can be taken down but you still need to have the element of surprise. The revolver is a good weapon, it's very accurate so you need to be very accurate.
 
alot of good tips and all, but like i said, problem isnt convincing people im on their team, Problem is paranoid idiots who spam their shotgun at every single player they see, and shooting their flamethrower from the start as soon as they spawn. Often, i get caught by a paranoid eng who is sitting next to his turret and whatnot shooting 2 shotgun shell to everyone that comes near him, like everyone. Also, when a pyro catches me, its often random and alot of its is when im still stealthed, they come out blazing randomly, and im just trying to hide in a corner or something so i dont get hit by the random fire, but i do.
 
Then wait outside the base (around a corner or something) and watch for the pyro to pass. Then go in. :p

The only time I really got nailed by a paranoid player (when cloaked) was an ENG who spammed bullets at the entrance in the INT room while sitting on a dispenser. So I picked soldier and found my way down there and killed him.
 
heh, there may be a good reason why people do that - spies can be a pain if they infiltrate your base. I usually play medic so until I find a 'host', I'll body check everyone I come across and throw needles at them. Nobody complains about it because if I identify/kill the spy, everyone's happy. Some people may just do it because they're weird though.
 
Kyorisu said:
Those are crappy snipers. If you cannot quickly head shot someone you should not be a sniper. I almost never use the zoom feature on the sniper rifle.
Click to expand...
But the shot power isn't charged until you're zoomed in, there is no crosshair and your shots are quite inaccurate without zooming in... have you actually played as Sniper in TF2?

Spies can be insanely useful. You've just got to put up with low scores and not enough proportional credit for that time you finally sap that Sentry that was holding everyone back from the capture.
 
Most things said are correct, but the fact no friendly fire is present - even if their is only 1 spy on their team who you havn't seen, nor has your team, you can just shoot them all anyway. Its so common now that spies taking down sentries is a laughable discussion. Backstab - cloak is about all spies can do now, and you won't get more than 4-5 before someone kills you accidentally.

Cthrag Yaska said it all - Play the class your team needs. I often play engies on 2fort, and medics elsewhere, unless I know I can get in as a spy, sap a sentry/backstab some demoman who is holding the entire team back.

Low scores for spies!
 
kupoartist said:
But the shot power isn't charged until you're zoomed in, there is no crosshair and your shots are quite inaccurate without zooming in... have you actually played as Sniper in TF2?

Spies can be insanely useful. You've just got to put up with low scores and not enough proportional credit for that time you finally sap that Sentry that was holding everyone back from the capture.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's quite possible to kill people with one shot without zooming in. (Critical lol!) Of course it's much easier with the zoomin, but ultra-skilled players can just wear away with continual non-aiming shots. The vast majority of snipers are not actually ultra skilled players though.

Anyway, like I said: if you're getting owned as a spy, try another tactic.
 
ktimekiller said:
alot of good tips and all, but like i said, problem isnt convincing people im on their team, Problem is paranoid idiots who spam their shotgun at every single player they see, and shooting their flamethrower from the start as soon as they spawn. Often, i get caught by a paranoid eng who is sitting next to his turret and whatnot shooting 2 shotgun shell to everyone that comes near him, like everyone. Also, when a pyro catches me, its often random and alot of its is when im still stealthed, they come out blazing randomly, and im just trying to hide in a corner or something so i dont get hit by the random fire, but i do.
Click to expand...

paranoid idiots? sounds like they are playing smart. As for pyros "randomly" shooting off their flamethrowers... As a dedicated pyro, there's nothing random about it. I do it to detect invisible spies when i suspect they may be about such as when our flag is out in the open and invisible spies try to rush in and grab it.

I don't see how you can call people paranoid idiots when they are obviously playing intelligently. No one wants to get backstabbed or have their sentries sapped, as a spy, you'll just have to deal with that.
 
All you want to do is take out the 'paranoid' bit. So stop playing spy for a while, or find a server full of idiots.
 
ktimekiller said:
alot of good tips and all, but like i said, problem isnt convincing people im on their team, Problem is paranoid idiots who spam their shotgun at every single player they see, and shooting their flamethrower from the start as soon as they spawn. Often, i get caught by a paranoid eng who is sitting next to his turret and whatnot shooting 2 shotgun shell to everyone that comes near him, like everyone. Also, when a pyro catches me, its often random and alot of its is when im still stealthed, they come out blazing randomly, and im just trying to hide in a corner or something so i dont get hit by the random fire, but i do.
Click to expand...

Then don't go near the turrets when your teammates aren't causing a distraction. Few engineers are going to have their shotguns out when their guns are in danger of being damaged. If you see more than two pyros on a team, then switch to a different class. Your complaining is like someone saying Heavies are too weak because he often runs up against 2-3 snipers...well, then go spy until your opponents get fed up and go pyro, then switch again. It's not that hard.
 
ktimekiller said:
Countless times, I’ve been killed by accidental fires, or by paranoid idiots spamming their weapons when they get out of spawn.

Whenever i try to infiltrate enemy’s base, there are always some paranoid idiot who spams his weapons from out of his base all the way to the battle, mostly pyros. Also, I often get killed because of misfires, or accidental bumps and whatnot.

Rant off.
Click to expand...

I agree Spy is a bit more difficult to play successfully than other classes but surely not impossible. I've had my annoying moments too, so i know what you talk about.
But actually i think Spy is one of the 'stronger' classes regarding team tactics. A spy/pyro combo is at least as effective to take out a sentry nest as a heavy/uber.
But with Spy surely more difficult to score regular high scores than for instance with soldier or demo.
Much more fun to sapp other sentries than to sit behind your own!
Anyway, IMO the key is not to get involved in regular battle. If you see action, sticky mines, a pyro etc. take the way around. Take time. Rush is deadly. Come from behind! Check out a situation (using cloak) before you go in to attack, sapp etc.
Pass enemy lines and get deep into their territory. sapp their teleports to slow them down. Wait outside their spawnpoints to backstab (but please not behind the OBVIOUS spy corner)
Get behind an enemy group and run with them towards your base. pick them from behind, especially during battle start with the medics.
Have your gun ready while disguised. It's often more useful than the backstab. A couple of headshots do just fine for many classes.
If somebody tests you in a quiet situation with a couple of gunshots, stay cool, don’t defend yourself.
But if you are seriously attacked go cloak immediately and try to get away.
While cloaked avoid the enemy team like hell. you light up like a xmas tree if you bump into one enemy player or get hit by a stray bullet.
Pyros are your worst enemies. Make sure no one is too close. It's like crossing a road in real life. You better watch out, left and right.


Cheers
magu
 
Jintor said:
Nah, it's quite possible to kill people with one shot without zooming in. (Critical lol!) Of course it's much easier with the zoomin, but ultra-skilled players can just wear away with continual non-aiming shots. The vast majority of snipers are not actually ultra skilled players though.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "ultra skilled" but more like "twitch-fingered". However what you say is true and it's entirely possible that sniper rifle will lose its ability to fire without zooming in near future if that ever becomes an actual balance problem.
 
kupoartist said:
But the shot power isn't charged until you're zoomed in, there is no crosshair and your shots are quite inaccurate without zooming in... have you actually played as Sniper in TF2?
Click to expand...

What I mean is you only need to zoom for a split second to take your shot at the enemies head and then unscope and move on. When I say I rarely use the zoom feature I mean I rarely use it to take charged shots. Headshots always crit and hence theres no need to be zoomed in for more than a second or two. It's just so easy to take out snipers who crawl out of their hidy hole scoped.

Jump out - scope - bam - unscope - Jump back.

If you've got experience using an awp in CSS you can instantly transfer those skills to the TF2 sniper rifle.
 
What about taking out a heavy, you an drop a heavy even if hes with a medic, when the rifle is fully charged! I'm not sure you can take out a soldier with a headshot unless its charged a little.
 
Spychecking is easily avoided if you still play stealthily. There shouldn't be this expectation that you should be free to roam around the enemy if you're disguised, because cautious players will always shoot to double check.

If you're coming up against paranoid players, then you should use disguises to do quick in/out work, only exposing yourself around enemy players when need be. Follow behind enemies who may be unaware. Clear the sniper floor on 2fort. After that, find a safe spot, switch disguises, and bide your time a bit before heading out again. If you stick around for too long, you're gonna get spychecked. But quick forays allow you to take advantage of the few seconds enemies might be unaware or off their guard.

Disguises are an aid. Not a replacement for tactical thinking.
 
Oh and one thing more, even if someone shoots you, don't react, just keep going looking as if you're determined to go where ever you're facing at that moment.

Being a spy in TF2 is like being a thief in Ultima Online; Best thieves in UO never had to actually train the Stealing skill.
 
Does that mean me too? :<
 
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