*spoilers* Matrix Revolutions *spoilers*

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Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Mods: I've started this seperate matrix thread to stop people from getting pissy in the other thread so we can freely discuss the film at will.

Okay, so the film... I kinda liked it although there was far too many things left in far too an ambiguous state for my liking.

Neo has his eye's burnt out and yet he can see machines and programs in the real world?

Yes the oracle says to him: *the power of the one is apparent from here to the source?* or something to that effect, but c'mon guys... that really is a lame excuse for letting Neo see machines in the real world even though he's blind.

The 'coma', and killing of thousands of machines at will:

same as above... wtf?

The death of trinity.. how pointless.

The death of Neo... err, did he die?!?!

The lack of time spent in the matrix ;(

The 'peace' with machines.... niceley left the film open there, thanks wachowski's!

Basically the story of this film was there to confuse and if you havent seen the first & second well f***, you aint gonna understand this one. I went with a friend who's seen the original and missed the 2nd and he was asking me stuff all the way through because he was lost!

The highlight of revolutions was the CGI... omg! from start to finish IMO it was flawless, unlike reloaded, which went OTT in some places to the point of it looking crap.
 
I thought the 3rd one sucked. It was such a let down because the first two were so good.
 
well, it is to be excpected that your friend did not understand the third film since this IS a trilogy with a continuing storyline.

The power of the one goes back all the way to the source which means that since Neo has altered his conscious (the architects words) he has found a way to see with a type of "second sight" similar to how he views the Matrix after defeating Smith in the first movie. Since he has a true understanding of the real world he can extend some of his power into it.

The death of Trinity was not pointless, not sure what you mean by that. She died getting Neo where he had to go and therefore fulfilling her destiny.

Neo died, I thought that was prety clear. The oracle says she feels she may see him again, which means his spirit may one day be reborn into another body.

The lack of time spent in the Matrix? I'll take quality over quantity, thank you. The Matrix stuff was brief, but stunning. Would you rather have had them edit out the amazing stuff in Zion?
 
The trilogy deals heavily in Jungian Archetypes, particularly the Messiah Archetype, but they sprinkle in a few others as well. If you want to make a bit more sense of it all, read some Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell, it'll probably clear up a lot of the philosophy the Wachowski's were trying to present in the films (with a very modern spin) and as a result should clarify much of the story and why things happen.

For a quick overview of the general idea of the archetype go here...

http://www.dreamhawk.com/d-arch.htm

As far as getting into details about the types themselves, I recommend reading the original works from Jung, and for a slightly different take, Campbell. I couldn't find anything decent with a quick google search that wasn't too spun in some particularly biased direction.

Having read lots of philosophy, particularly Jung and Campbell, I was in a different boat. I knew what the whole story arc would be and what major events would take place...the only questions were how they would happen, and when. They did put some interesting spins on the whole thing though, which was nice. I particularly like the handling of the Judas element, and confrontation with the Self (which is the faceoff between Neo and Agent Smith at the end...yes, in essence Agent Smith IS Neo, which is why Neo has a choice, Smith does not.)

I enjoyed it, though I would've cut to some sort of breather during the attack on the docks / chase sequence...it was just too intense, for too long IMO.

Effects were AMAZING. I've been in the VFX industry for nearly a decade, and all could think about afterwards was somewhere there's some animators in serious pain right now.
 
Great film. Neo's already died and been reborn in the first film, now he ascends to heaven. Which means in a couple of thousand years we'll all be eating Neo Eggs on Easter Sunday. And the action was the best Ive ever seen-from the Aliens-style Battle For Zion to the final confrontation. ANd as for the Matrix Online, my opinion is that the Matrix was left as a playground for machines and for humans, who like to play team games against eachother....heh. So youre playing a computer game inside a computer game.
 
Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Originally posted by craigweb2k
Neo has his eye's burnt out and yet he can see machines and programs in the real world?

Yes the oracle says to him: *the power of the one is apparent from here to the source?* or something to that effect, but c'mon guys... that really is a lame excuse for letting Neo see machines in the real world even though he's blind.

The 'coma', and killing of thousands of machines at will:

same as above... wtf?
Click to expand...

yeah, that's probably the most unbelievable thing about this film:dozey:

when trinity died i started to cry man, it was sad. yes it was pointless but it was an attempt at drama, not a very good one but still it was there. besides it follows along with the whole idea in the film "once we're not longer needed we are killed" the computers delete pointless program, the keymaker was killed once he got them inside, trinity died because she was no longer needed, neo finished the prophecy of ending the war so he was also killed.

i didn't like reloaded that much, if you ask me if they spent any more time in the matrix i would've killed myself. there really was no need to be in the matrix anymore.
 
i think neo's ability is more to do with him discovering something when he went to the source. when he first discovered his powers in the matrix, he realised that it was just a simulation. thus he could change it as he saw fit. when he reached the source, he realised that reality was a simulation as well. NOT a matrix within a matrix, but everything was just a simulation.

anyway, this essay should explain a lot more about reloaded and probably help you understand revolutions a lot better: http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html

everything in that film served a purpose. wawchowski's don't put pointless stuff in their films.

for me, revolutions had far more meaning than reloaded and the original. matrix 1 = discovery, reloaded = expansion, revolutions = conclusion.

notice at the end where the sun rises, the oracle says to sati, "is that for neo?" WTF?! who is this sati girl? she's the child of two programs right?

i liked the fact that the 'equation' had to be balanced. if smith dies then neo must die for the equation to be balanced. poetry no?

and monica belluci's tits.....wow....
 
I'm just amazed this film was made.
Since when have studios had the bollocks to put up that kind of money to make something so far outside the norm, that caters almost exclusively to the intellectual movie-goer? (this goes for pretty much the entire series)
I was absolutely amazed by the film, and am already figuring some stuff out I didn't think of at first. I'm also sure another watching will clear up most people's questions.
 
come to think of it, i did like the ending (sort of). different from the norm and not your typical hollywood happy ending. the sun rising and whatever was a little cheesy but i think it conveyed a message of hope and a new beginning like the oracle was talking about.
 
read the topic title for gods sake.

"Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*"

can't complain.
 
yes i can, ur are not following the rules by marking spoilers in the message as well
 
Originally posted by thehunter1320
yes i can, ur are not following the rules by marking spoilers in the message as well
Click to expand...

I think he made it pretty clear in the subject and his first post that this thread would contain spoilers. Two warnings and if anyone still goes on to read the posts and see's spoilers, well, they were warned twice about them. I think thats pretty fair

As for the marking individual posts with spoiler warnings. I think that probably just applies to posts in normal threads where a spoiler might crop up here and there during the course of the discussion.


I'm only here for the spoilers, so I don't have to see the movie :)
 
Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Some of you have obviously missed major elements... read the Christian bible and you will be rewarded greatly. I'm not a religious man, generally I'll stab a stab at anyone who believes anything blindly. However, this movie was heavily influenced by western religion, this is apparent from the very first in the series.

I'll cut to the chase. Neo is our savior.

There are thousands of subliminal and cryptic religious messages throughout the series, some debatably, others clearer than day itself.

Some of you might be thinking, "what the f*ck rec, you've lost it". I'm about to give you an example of this, you can work out the rest for yourself.

Upon saving humanity, not the world, humanity, the sentinels pull Neo towards his creator (yes, he is his creator). Take particular note of his pose... legs together, arms far out, and to each side. The only the way they could have made it any clearer was to stick a cross beneth him.

The oracle tops it off with an answer to the girls question about ever seeing Neo again, she answers something to the effect of "perhaps one day".

"Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again."

Neo was the 7th, after all. Hence the modern spin on an ancient text. I'm sure by now, after reading what I've written, you've worked out who Agent Smith actually was.
 
Do some religious-based reading and find out. ;P
 
Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Originally posted by craigweb2k
Mods: I've started this seperate matrix thread to stop people from getting pissy in the other thread so we can freely discuss the film at will.

Okay, so the film... I kinda liked it although there was far too many things left in far too an ambiguous state for my liking.

Neo has his eye's burnt out and yet he can see machines and programs in the real world?

Yes the oracle says to him: *the power of the one is apparent from here to the source?* or something to that effect, but c'mon guys... that really is a lame excuse for letting Neo see machines in the real world even though he's blind.

The 'coma', and killing of thousands of machines at will:

same as above... wtf?

The death of trinity.. how pointless.

The death of Neo... err, did he die?!?!

The lack of time spent in the matrix ;(

The 'peace' with machines.... niceley left the film open there, thanks wachowski's!

Basically the story of this film was there to confuse and if you havent seen the first & second well f***, you aint gonna understand this one. I went with a friend who's seen the original and missed the 2nd and he was asking me stuff all the way through because he was lost!

The highlight of revolutions was the CGI... omg! from start to finish IMO it was flawless, unlike reloaded, which went OTT in some places to the point of it looking crap.
Click to expand...

Wow, this movie sounds even lamer than Reloaded, and that's saying a lot.
 
it's a whole f*cking lot better than reloaded, by far. ;)
 
Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

In fact, I think it was better than the first one. It might just be because I've just seen the film and am still in a state of being blown away, but still. Oh yeah:
Originally posted by craigweb2k
killing of thousands of machines at will:

same as above... wtf?
Click to expand...
They were sentinel bombs, as seen in both Reloaded and Enter The Matrix. Such is their blast radius that he only destroys one and they all blow due to a chain reaction. Glad we've got that cleared up. I cant believe how many people didnt notice the religious signifigance of that trilogy......
 
Who is agent smith suppose to be?Satan or something?Caanan???
 
Re: Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Originally posted by rec
Some of you have obviously missed major elements... read the Christian bible and you will be rewarded greatly. I'm not a religious man, generally I'll stab a stab at anyone who believes anything blindly. However, this movie was heavily influenced by western religion, this is apparent from the very first in the series.

I'll cut to the chase. Neo is our savior.

There are thousands of subliminal and cryptic religious messages throughout the series, some debatably, others clearer than day itself.

Some of you might be thinking, "what the f*ck rec, you've lost it". I'm about to give you an example of this, you can work out the rest for yourself.

Upon saving humanity, not the world, humanity, the sentinels pull Neo towards his creator (yes, he is his creator). Take particular note of his pose... legs together, arms far out, and to each side. The only the way they could have made it any clearer was to stick a cross beneth him.

The oracle tops it off with an answer to the girls question about ever seeing Neo again, she answers something to the effect of "perhaps one day".

"Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again."

Neo was the 7th, after all. Hence the modern spin on an ancient text. I'm sure by now, after reading what I've written, you've worked out who Agent Smith actually was.
Click to expand...

rec, the main problem I have with the whole "this movie is based on western religion" is the fact that its a movie about hacking, programs, machines... if the muslim faith was butchered in such a way there would be a massive outcry, but because its a religion in massive decline which in america is often looked upon and acted upon as a joke it seems to be okay (the 'priests' on TV being a fine example "an ye' haw bruttha, you are saved!")!

As for the actual plausabilities of the movie it's just plain rediculous! There is FAR TOO MUCH in this movie to just take it with a pinch of salt without thinking "F'king behave now!".

Fair enough, if the Wachowski's came out and said "alright, neo is god and you're supposed to believe this" then fair enough.. I'd just think "well allright, but this movie is lower in my expectations", instead they're basically saying "haha, we're smarter than you and this movie will finish with all this stuff being un-answered because we are so smart we understand it and you dont".

Stuff I hated

1. Neo "knowing" he has to go to '01' and meet the 'creator'.

2. Neo saying "fly up" to get away from the machines and the machines not following?.

3. Neo's ability to walk around and 'see' programs, fair enough he has 'implants' (which I might add were removed in the 1st one!), but they arent even active when not 'plugged-in'.

4. Trinitys refusal to die! Man did she go on.... what was it? Like five minutes before she actually croaked? If neo is all powerful and the power of the one extends to the source why didnt he do some magical stuff, fix his eyes and save her again..

5. Neo's 'ability' to destroy sentinels and whatever other machine he felt nessecary (up to a certain amount?, erm, thought he was god) at will.

6. Keanu's acting ability... man why couldnt they have changed him for these two films like they did with the oracle in the last film and just make up some bullsh*t excuse like they did with the oracle (dying between films). He cant act to save his life!

7. No twins?

8. No fight between Serraph and the agents??

9. The fact that whether Neo died or not is left upto you to decide.

Stuff I loved

1. Agent smith! Man he's a sadistic f*cker! The whole scene where he copys his code over to the oracle... "will you just get on with it!" heh!

2. The whole zion fight.. fantastic, but just a bit too long.

3. That 'punch' in the "rain scene"... the CGI this time around was spot on IMO.

4. The entire 'rain scene' even though it was rather short.

5. The re-setting of the matrix.. how cool did that look!



Has anyone watched re-loaded back and noticed that the indian guy (program) waiting in the train station was right, he is actually in the merrovingians club in the scene where Neo, Trinity and Morpheus go to talk with him :)
 
Originally posted by Tr0n
Who is agent smith suppose to be?Satan or something?Caanan???
Click to expand...

I think they're basically saying he's satan yeah. The plague of the matrix.
 
Man I loved that film.... Oh, and I think Smith is the 'Anti-one' I think.. :)
 
The entire trilogy not only has Christian paralells, but borrows a lot from Buddhism, specifically the Tibetan variety.
Edit: And yeah, as the Oracle says: Smith is the system balancing out Neo's power. Therefore, hes the anti-one.
Edit Edit: I was always into Reloaded, but I do find myself appreciating it more as part of the trilogy than as a sequel.
 
Originally posted by mrBadger
Man I loved that film.... Oh, and I think Smith is the 'Anti-one' I think.. :)
Click to expand...

The oracle basically says in the 3rd that agent smith is the one's negative.. his opposite, so yeah.. :dozey:
 
And greek mythology, and babylonian myths, and philosophy, and the works of Jean Baudrillard, and......
 
I don't think much, if anything was left unanswered, but that's just me.
 
Originally posted by rec
I don't think much, if anything was left unanswered, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

What happened to 'The One'.

What will the machines use for power now that there is 'peace'?

Where will the humans live?

How will the humans still plugged in be given a 'choice' to leave the matrix or not?

Does 'the one' anomoly still exist if the matrix still exists, therefore meaning the matrix will still be stuck in a loop even though the realworld is at peace?

etc
 
Originally posted by Sulkdodds
And greek mythology, and babylonian myths, and philosophy, and the works of Jean Baudrillard, and......
Click to expand...
Try to name them all and your head's just gonna explode.
Then someone will point out one you missed.
 
everyone just seems to ignore my posts. look! i'm making invisible posts! look straight through me!
 
Originally posted by craigweb2k
What happened to 'The One'.
Click to expand...

He died, but will be ressurected and come again. He was the 7th, as mentioned in Reloaded.


Originally posted by craigweb2k
What will the machines use for power now that there is 'peace'?
Click to expand...

There's peace, but the world of the matrix will still be run. As mentioned in the end, all who choose the other life, the real world, will be allowed. Until then, they'll remain in the matrix, unaware.


Originally posted by craigweb2k
Where will the humans live?
Click to expand...

Zion.

Originally posted by craigweb2k
How will the humans still plugged in be given a 'choice' to leave the matrix or not?
Click to expand...

They've already made the choice. Didn't you listen to the oracle? :)

The person knows, just like Neo did, that somethings not right, that there's something else. That's how all previous were freed too. So individuals from the real world will approach them, give them the choice of pills, and if they want out, the machines will let them willingly, hence this "peace".


Originally posted by craigweb2k
Does 'the one' anomoly still exist if the matrix still exists, therefore meaning the matrix will still be stuck in a loop even though the realworld is at peace?
Click to expand...

As the architect says in the end "how long do you think this peace will really last?!". There will be a breaking of this peace, and eventually 'the one' anomoly will rise once more.
 
can anyone clear up who this sati girl is?? is she a gifted child who can manipulate the matrix? does she represent a hindu god or something? someone must know.

i wonder if people who've been freed will still be able to jack back into the matrix to see what's going on etc.
 
I'm sure they would, as it's those freed people who must set the others free.

Unless of course the machines or the monitors (agents) know when users in the matrix feel there is something else, and free them automatically. Although then it'd be rather inconvenient finding their way to Zion. :p
 
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12746

found it!!

Ghost: Can you tell me what happened to you?
Oracle: Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.
Ghost: Why did they do that?
Oracle: For love. For the life of their child.
Ghost: You knew about it, and yet you let it happen?
Oracle: I had to.
Ghost: Why?
Oracle: Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.


that clears a lot up and cements my assumption: sati is the next 'one'. discuss.
 
Woo, now that's cool, didn't pick up on that.
 
it got me thinking at the end when the oracle looked at the sun rising and then smiled at sati saying "is that for neo?" like the kid had done a drawing and was showing an older person for praise. sati nodded and the oracle smiled.

also, whoever heard of robots being in love, and even more ridiculous, robots having children! sati is the child of two machines who are apparently in love. the next stage in machine evolution? machines that can love? mind blowing stuff.

also, if sati is indeed the next 'one' (for the machine or human world), then there'll have to be an opposite to balance the equation. that's where the architect comes in with his fetish for numbers.

and before anyone starts complaining, that discussion between ghost and the oracle is from Enter The Matrix, it isn't in either of the films.
 
Originally posted by Dedalus
whoever heard of robots being in love, and even more ridiculous, robots having children! sati is the child of two machines who are apparently in love. the next stage in machine evolution? machines that can love? mind blowing stuff.
Click to expand...

The programs did not feel the human emotion "love". As explained in the movie if you listened, they don't feel love, but are programmed to understand what the word means in its simplist sense; an amazingly strong bond between yourself and another.

For all we know they didn't have children, they were given one by the machine world under the impession (as they've been programmed) that it's their own, regardless of how it came to be.

Every almost-human in the matrix is a son or daughter of another in the matrix, their sexual encounter obviously didn't actually create chemistry that creates this child. The machine world simply plants another battery baby into a big red bubble, and inserts it into the matrix via some ladies private parts. :)
 
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