*spoilers* Matrix Revolutions *spoilers*

Yeah, they were either given it, or they got someone to program one for them :)
 
didn't think about it like that. i was just busy traumatising myself trying to imagine two robots having sex.

there was a point in the film when i thought Seraph and Merv were previous 'Ones'. can't quite remember what it was but i thought oh damn that's some weird shit how are they going to justify that?

anyway, what do you think that golden view Neo had was all about? is he seeing reality for what it really is? has he really transcended all boundaries? is it a matrix-within-a-matrix? i dunno, what do you lot think?

EDIT: robots = programs/machines
 
Originally posted by Dedalus
didn't think about it like that. i was just busy traumatising myself trying to imagine two robots having sex.
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I'd imagine it would look and sound some-what like two 60 year old catholics. Wait, disregard that.

Originally posted by Dedalus
there was a point in the film when i thought Seraph and Merv were previous 'Ones'. can't quite remember what it was but i thought oh damn that's some weird shit how are they going to justify that?
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Apparently this chracter ties in with the Genesis chapter of the Christian bible. However, there is a family in France called the Marrovingians. They claim to be literal descendants of christ. Pehraps the Wachowski brothers were just taking the piss. :)

Originally posted by Dedalus
anyway, what do you think that golden view Neo had was all about? is he seeing reality for what it really is? has he really transcended all boundaries? is it a matrix-within-a-matrix? i dunno, what do you lot think?
Click to expand...

Something is mentioned by the oracle in the movie about this too, although I forget exactly. It's not a matrix within a matrix though, and yes Neo has passed all boundaries. He is an anomoly not only in the matrix, but in the real world. His gift goes with him everywhere. He is the one, he is our savior.
 
was just wondering about how Neo was able to be jacked into the matrix. now don't tell me he's invented some sort of wireless networking deely thing.

anyway, we find Neo in limbo at the train station. before this in reloaded, we saw him stopping a group of sentinels, after which he collapsed and here he is lying on the table. how has his conciousness managed to get from the real world and into a construct created by merv? maybe i wasn't paying proper attention at the start of the film. i know the train station is a stop off for taking something from the machine world to the matrix, i just don't know how he got there. maybe he interfaced with a sentinel and somehow managed to transfer himself down their networks, and the machiens realising he wasn't a machine tried to ship his programming off to the matrix where humans are supposed to be, and somehow he ended up in Mobil Ave station waiting for the train man.

confuzzling, can anyone clear it up?
 
It's mentioned in the film, but I forget unfortunately. Would like to know myself... but for now, bed. I'll check this thread again in the morning.
 
It seems that Neo has acquired the ability to be aware of "the source." He is able to see that code that governs the matrix and the machines. I think of this as the machine's soul almost.
Because he is aware of this code, he is aware of the matrix too...and can seemingly move into it at will (or in this case, by accident). It seems that he just happened to wind up in the station by accident (more likely providence), thus why the Merv wasn't aware of it at first.
And thats exactly it: he is stuck in a loop, the cycle of existence. This is a page ripped directly out of Buddhism and similar faiths (Dalai Lama anyone?)
And lastly, having watched the Animatrix it makes you think that the machines can be every bit as human as we are (a big theme in the movies). It also seems that peace is possible, and if it ultimately fails it will be by the hands of humans, not the machines.
 
did anyone notice the cat at the end?

deja vu anyone? a deja vu is when they change something...

so change + deja vu at the same time? hmm...
 
I felt priveleged when watching the film. I know the full story, having seen all the films, the Animatrix, and completed the game as both characters. Maybe the cat is the one from the Animatrix! The one that throws the hat in the detective episode!
 
Loved that movie... made all three movies come togheter... simply wonderfull... best story ever!
 
Originally posted by Dedalus
was just wondering about how Neo was able to be jacked into the matrix. .....anyway, we find Neo in limbo at the train station. .....i just don't know how he got there. .......and somehow he ended up in Mobil Ave station waiting for the train man.
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they never explain how he got there...the merovingian says he doesn't know how it happened either during the club scene...the train man seems surprised to see him there, and he says he's "god down here" or whatever.

i don't think it was mean to be explained, otherwise they would've.

Mobil = Limbo jumbled up
 
Direwolf you said this movie caters to intellectual-moviegoers? that's ridiculous, it's all brainless action. You are all taking these goofball movies too seriously. Sure the special FX was nice but the actors... Oh my God! The cast from The Revenge of The Nerds could do better.

And the cheesiest part of all three flicks was the "CREATOR"... Where did that come from? Transformers? lame.

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the movie, it had a lot of action but it's all the pseudo-religious nonsense that was thrown in there for effect that bothers me.

And they're probably going to make another triology within the next five years. The cow still has some milk to spare apparently.
 
Either you're into the movies or not, its nearly impossible to convince someone to like them.
Regardless, all three of them were built around their themes and messages. No matter how you look at them those ideas and concepts are so deeply ingrained into the story that theres no real support to the idea that they were merely afterthoughts.
Best analogy I can come up with is Star Wars...its philosophy and themes were integral.
 
Originally posted by rec
However, there is a family in France called the Marrovingians. They claim to be literal descendants of christ. Pehraps the Wachowski brothers were just taking the piss. :)
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The Wachowski Bros. clearly are making a point by naming an earlier version of The One (Messiah, Christ, etc.) The Merovingian.

The Merovingians were a royal family in France:
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/Rulers/merovingian.html

They never claimed to be descendants of Jesus Christ, but three British writers did in the book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/002-4956725-3768859?v=glance

Their theory implies that Jesus Christ didn't die on the cross, returned from the dead three days later and went upto heaven 40 days after that. No, he lived happily ever after in the south of France (Languedoc), according to the book with Mary Magdalene with whom het begot (to use the bible lingo) a couple of children. One of the sources for (part) of this theory is the Holy Qu'ran:
http://www.alazhr.com/Quran/Default.asp?Lang=e&Action=View&Doc=Doc1&n=658&StartFrom=501&Total=677

Neo is Messiah 7.0, the Merovingian is an earlier version, so they share the same blood / code. Pun intended, I think.
 
They have NEVER indicated in any way that the merovingian is an older version of the one...yet that idea seems to stick around a lot.
I think the best proof against it is that the One occurs on a cycle...the Merovingian and Neo shouldn't be in power at the same time. Also hes a creep. :D
http://www.scottmanning.com/archives/000516.php
 
yes, the merovingian doesn't have much to do with neo. this is especially evident in when he said in reloaded "i have survived your predecessors, and i will survive you!"
 
I knid of thought the merovingian represented the devil with the way he was dressed, the way he talked, the fact that his night club was club hel. The people around him in the night club were also all wearing horns or other little things that made them look like they were demons (not really demons, just symbolism for demons). He is one of my favorite characters, it's too bad he was only on screen for that brief scene.
 
Originally posted by qckbeam
I knid of thought the merovingian represented the devil with the way he was dressed, the way he talked, the fact that his night club was club hel. The people around him in the night club were also all wearing horns or other little things that made them look like they were demons (not really demons, just symbolism for demons). He is one of my favorite characters, it's too bad he was only on screen for that brief scene.
Click to expand...
Maybe that Mero dude symbolizes Cannan?
 
I really think that the ending should have been a shot of the matrix with the error message like the ending to the first one, with the voice over. It couldent have ended this way given the way it did in revolutions, but i think it would have been very very cool :).
 
Re: Re: Matrix Revolutions *spoilers a must!*

Sorry Chris, Im not laughing at you, im laughing with you :)


Matrix 3: The Next one! note: film may not yet be good, deep understanding of the bible needed, warning, shit ending.

:)
 
Originally posted by brink's
I thought the 3rd one sucked. It was such a let down because the first two were so good.
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Don't you dare to call Reloaded good, it was the worst crap I've seen in 10 years!
Haven't seen Revolutions and will not watch it.
 
Faravid, you're missing out. It's brilliant.

And yes, Reloaded blew.
 
The Matrix - Good Film, groundbreaking special effects (although bullet-time wasnt invented by the wachowski's! it was invented by a BBC camera man doing a wildlife docu and I'm sick of people thinking otherwise). All questions were answered within the matrix and what I mean by that is NOTHING required a leap of faith such as the other films.

The Matrix: Reloaded - Erm, wtf? The film designed to get you from The Matrix to The Matrix Revolutions basically. What a pile of steaming dog shit. The special effetcs were very 'average' 100 agent smiths? More like 1 agent smith, 99 stunt doubles... how obvious!!

"Need a metaphour to get from one place to another my fine wachowski' brother?"

"yeah"

"well how about vampires? you gotta love that!"

"hehe... alright, but we gotta pretend theres some deeper meaning to it okay?"

"umm... ooh. I know.. they're stupid.. dont even have college deploma's, but someone have 'chosen' to remain as rogue programs working for urm.. some bad-ass french guy who everyone will hate, but find really funny... "

"yeah great!"

The Matrix: Revolutions (everything that has a beginning has an end)... okay, so wheres this end? from a film which ends in such a way as to basially guarantee the wachowski's jobs in 20 years if they so wish it (ahem lucas).

Great acting from Keanu, Carrie-Anne (gotta feel sorry for her, she does try, but the horrible script and the fact that most of her scenes are with keanu are her death... literally!)

Nice to see the Kid get such a meaty role this time around, but still pissed that you have to buy into the whole matrix this and that to understand the whole story.. enter the matrix and the animatrix should have been explained where nessecary in this film because there were far too many people who didnt know who this Kid was.

I suppose I'll see this film again and it'll grow on me.. but films that have stuck around in the concencus werent growers.. they just stuck in your mind.. this film wont be around long.
 
Awesome movie. I just wanna know one more thing. I have an idea about it, but I'm not sure.

Smith just blowing up and the oracle remaining - My thoughts:

The oracle obviously knew she was going to be copied over, she anticipated it. She was still existent inside Smith's coding. She surfaced at the very end of the rain fight when she spoke throught Smith saying, "Everything that has a beginning, has an end" and such. This creeped Smith out, he was being hacked. So he panicked, copied into Neo, but Neo and the Oracle worked together to destroy smith at his core? The oracle lives because she is basically the godess of the matrix and is a program. Neo does not because he is merely human just jacked into the matrix..

I dunno. I just saw it about 30 minutes...but that's what I'm thinking right now. Not sure.
 
Oh shit Gloria Foster just kicked the bucket! Wadda we goin' to do!?

...

It's ez! let's just say she changed "shells"!

...

That's brilliant bro!

...

Yea I know.
 
people didn't like reloaded because of the fact that it had a lot to say.

people forgive reloaded because of cool action scenes (highway chase)

people don't like reloaded because they'd rather be told everything instead of having to think for themselves about things.

don't just call all the talking parts of reloaded "intellectual crap" or whatever colorful word choice you want...it was explaining their theme for the movies...which was choice vs. fate.

there were many other themes (dream vs. reality, man vs. machine, you could go on...) but this was the main one. reloaded needed those "boring" scenes to get that point across.

you can disagree that it's a good theme, and you can not like the theme, but don't bash the wachowskis for wanting to get their point across...they had a vision, you don't have to agree with it.

(this isn't a defense of the wachowskis or a defense of the film, per se...it's more of a defense of film in general and how people complain about things they don't really have a right to complain about. criticize their choice of themes or something like that...criticize their ability to get their point across, not the fact that they tried to.
 
People keep mentioning the similarity between the Matrix story and that of the Christian story. In a way that is true, but, the stories are diametrically opposed to each other.

True Christianity sets up the Spiritual World (or that of heaven) to be more real then this earthly world and more free then this world. In this world we are encumbered by our bodies and the constant battle between good and evil in our souls. This world restricts us to so many things. But, when we look to God and to Heaven, that is when we are truly free and not trapped by the evils of this world.

The Matrix story paints a different picture. They are painting the Matrix, as heaven. The ideal world that people will want to live in, and even some who have left, want to go back. Face it, the Matrix compared to the real world of blackened skies and cave dwelling is a much better option to the senses. But, the Matrix is also painted as a situation that makes us slaves and not free. When we are freed from the Matrix and shot into this world, that is when they claim humans are truly free and they reside in a world that is more real and better then the matrix.

Basically, they are twisting reality. True heaven is not slavery. This world is where we are enslaved. When I first saw the Matrix, I thought there was a parallel between the two. But I the story developed, I realized more and more the twisting of the truth. Making this earth to be better then that of heaven.

I am sorry, but the Matrix story is a twisted way of telling people that the world is where happiness and freedom truly is and heaven and a life with God is where you live a predetermined life of slavery.

Conclusion: Great Sci-Fi movie story. Bad spiritual representation.
 
please note, the matrix only takes two things from christianity: it parallels the story of Genesis and Creation, it borrows the idea of a saviour/messiah. everything else (and i mean everything else) is drawn from eastern philosophy, that's hinduism, buddhism, taoism etc. the philosophical aspects have nothing to do with christianity, they're just borrowing a few bits from the bible to make the story have a grand scale, and it works.

again i'll direct people to this essay:http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html

it really does explain everything.
 
alrighty then... long post alert and SPOILERZ!

after just watching revolutions about 15 minutes ago... it was better than 2 and 1, i understood everything except 2... why did smith explode??? i have a therum... teh oracle said that smith was an "anti-one" to balance out the anamoly that is neo... so once neo was smith, the anti-one was no longer nessescary, thus the equation terminated itself and reverted all of the changed as though the equation never existed. the reason the oracle and all of smith's other hosts didn't die was because they weren't part of the terminated equation, thus reverting to an original shell and state of conssiusness (i can't spell all these big word :p).

and the other thing that i didn't understand was why was that little girl so important... and i have no therum on that one... any ideas?
 
Surely Smith blew up cos Neo IS Smith, and he blew himself up?
 
Originally posted by Dedalus
can anyone clear up who this sati girl is?? is she a gifted child who can manipulate the matrix? does she represent a hindu god or something? someone must know.
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well i didn't play the game "Enter the Matrix" but when u posted this:

Originally posted by Dedalus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12746

found it!!

Ghost: Can you tell me what happened to you?
Oracle: Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.
Ghost: Why did they do that?
Oracle: For love. For the life of their child.
Ghost: You knew about it, and yet you let it happen?
Oracle: I had to.
Ghost: Why?
Oracle: Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.


that clears a lot up and cements my assumption: sati is the next 'one'. discuss.
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i was thinking back to the ending when the Oracle and Sati were talking and my theory is that Sati was a program to help Neo when he was in the machine world.. "go up" says Neo.. and since Sati could control the skies.. it could explain that.. but then again Sati was in the matrix and not in the machine world so im confused that way..

*shrug* Sati could be the next "-=theone=-"

and i agree with whoever said that the peace would be broken on the human side.. especially after the creator's line in the end..when the Oracle asks about the pple in the matrix and his response was something to the effect of "of course, im not human"

i found that line funny :)
 
I really liked this big epic fight with all kinds of religious and philosphical importance, it was a great movie. But...

Part of me really missed the good old original Matrix. With the hackers and bullet-time, kung-fu and the unbeatable Agents. Reloaded and Revolutions didn't feel quite right. They didn't have the style that the first one had. I felt like I was watching a different series. I think they just went a bit overboard with the scale of the movie.

The movie itself was great. But the Zion battle went on uninterrupted for too long. They did a good job of conveying the feeling that the humans were fighting a hopeless battle, but I actually started to feel frustrated. I was thinking "enough machines already" but they just kept coming.
 
why smith blew up? In reloaded he said: I knew the rules, i had to return to the source blablabla but then he would be deleted and he didnt want that apparently. But Neo was at the source in revolutions and got Smith in reach of the source by letting Smith infect him. That way the source could delete Smith. So Neo was a help for the Source to get rid of Smith, although that wasn't clear to Neo when he started his fight. It's true what the oracle says in part 1: Neo isn't too smart :p
 
I thought matrix revolutions was brilliant, it was more of a sci-fi war movie than sci-fi thriller like the first and the second which was a sci-fi action movie.

TBH I only enjoyed the second because of the neo Vs Smith and car chase scenes. It didn't have enough atmosphere and the key maker was a joke, infact quite a few of the characters were jokes. However it was alot better than alot of other movies I have seen, to be fair I would have to say it was bashed mainly because it didn't meet anyones expectations.

The third one started off a bit slow, but completely blew me away dureing the middle although I'm not so sure about the end. Personally I wish they hadn't filmed both revolutions and reloaded together, but instead waited a year or two to see how people reacted to reloaded and make sure they didn't make the same mistakes again. I don't think it left any questions unanswered, but instead made the answers a little obscure. Me and my friends love working out the philosophy behind it but then we also like discussing string theory and quantum physics. Most people think that kind of thing is boreing and therefore it does not have massmarket appeal. The same thing could be argued for the philosophy behind the matrix films. In the first movie the philosophy required to understand what was going on didn't require much brian power to take in and was well explained throughtout the movie, if you wanted to you could go deeper into it but that was upto you. However in the second one it was alot harder to understand and some of it was vital to fully understanding the story line leaveing most people annoyed that they didn't have a clue what a character just said or most importantly why neo was the one and why he had to restart Zion.

The third one has the same problem and is being given really bad reviews because of it, reviewers who wouldn't normally go near a movie like this are reviewing it because they think it is a movie which is supposed to appeal to a mass market like the first one, instead there getting a movie where the highlight is a giant mech battle and... well you get the picture.
 
Originally posted by RadiuS
why smith blew up? In reloaded he said: I knew the rules, i had to return to the source blablabla but then he would be deleted and he didnt want that apparently. But Neo was at the source in revolutions and got Smith in reach of the source by letting Smith infect him. That way the source could delete Smith. So Neo was a help for the Source to get rid of Smith, although that wasn't clear to Neo when he started his fight. It's true what the oracle says in part 1: Neo isn't too smart :p
Click to expand...

Smith blew up because, neo and smith are equal (well appart from the oracle inside smith) to each other but on opposite sides of the equation, when smith copied himself to neo, he moved from one side of the '=' to the other and subtracted himself from neo leaveing '0' and the oracle.

N = S + O or possibly N = SO
S - N = O or ' ' N / S = O
0 = O or O = 1

As you can see the equation doesn't make sense whithout any other variables or constants, unless the Oracle = 0 or 1 (no or yes lol), and there could of course be plenty of other possible equations.
 
omg... do I really want to see this film?

This is worse than the 2 = 1 thread.... :O
 
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