*spoilers* Matrix Revolutions *spoilers*

[Chris D]

I haven't seen reloaded yet. But I will do.

 

[azz0r]

Heres some questions dave answered at the modDB forums.

Why does Smith call the Oracle "mother"?
The oracle was sort of known as the mother of the matrix as mentioned by the architect in reloaded.

Why didn't the machines just drop a bomb into Zion instead of using a bunch of sentinels?
That would have been too easy or maybe they couldn't risk explosives incase the ground collapses and causes massive earthquakes or something...

What did the Architect mean when he told the Oracle at the end of the film "this was a dangerous game you played"?
The end of the movie implies that the whole matrix cycle continues, but this time it is different in that i believe both programs (i.e. exiles) and humans have a choice in whether to leave or live in the matrix. In doing so the Oracle risked many things by telling neo more than she should have rather than say just letting neo do what the previous incarnations had done

What is the significance of Sati?
Not 100% sure, but according to I believe Hindu religion, the father of Seti, Rama was the 7th incarnation of a god in which to save the world and neo being the 6th, something like that, i heard that from a friend .. so i think theres some sigincance with seti there... perhaps she's the new saviour?

What happened to Smith at the end of his fight with Neo when he became all confused?
This is what I am most confused about..... it was sort of implied that smith didn't really delete whateva code he overtook, just maintained control of it... perhaps the oracle on purposely let smith take over her to set up the final battle, (maybe part of teh dangerous game??). We know the final agent smith was using the orcale's shell, since at the end we see her dead body in the aftermath in that huge crater. So what i am trying to get to was that smith really didn't have full control of the oracle as he thought, he was tricked and she started taking control back at the end...

The commander made it clear he needed every ship available to fight off the attack of Zion. Where were those ships during the attack?
Assumed they were all severly ripped when bane set off the EMP and the sentinels broke through their ambush

Seraph is outnumbered by Smiths, but they don't show what happens. He says that he has beaten Smith before... so what happened?
I assumed both him and seti were copied like the oracle. Note how smith refers to seti as the last exile.. i.e. i think that implies he's copied into every exile program there is in the matrix...

What did the Oracle and the Architect agree on? That anyone that wanted to be unplugged could?
Yes I believe so, and also freeing programs? i'm not entirely sure about that last one... i made this assumption back on how desperate Rama wanted to free his daughter seti at any cost?

and I followed with...

Im not sure, but I think Neo was plugged into the matrix main head super man - so essentially as soon as he became smith the matrix baby face thing had its code and kinda anti-virused it? Im not sure but was Neo unplugged without being woke up? Thatd mean he's dead, or was he dead from the actual fight.

So is sati some kind of program? She said she made the sunset for Neo

 

[azz0r]

Originally posted by Chris_D
I haven't seen reloaded yet. But I will do.

I took holly with me, whos only seen teeny bits of the first matrix and hasnt seen reloaded. I though shed be out of her depths and not understand anything but I asked her what she though when she came out and she said "well I thought I wouldnt understand anything but I did, I dont need to see reloaded"...go figure

 

[Direwolf]

Originally posted by azz0r
What happened to Smith at the end of his fight with Neo when he became all confused?
Seraph is outnumbered by Smiths, but they don't show what happens. He says that he has beaten Smith before... so what happened?

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but at that point Smith could see the future, just as the Oracle could. He at first could see up to the point with him standing over Neo in the crater. But Neo made the choice to get back up and to keep fighting, at which point Smith could suddenly see the real outcome of the battle, and freaked. He paniced and tried to copy over Neo, which in the end was what killed him.
Radius: I never thought of that one. Thats a really good theory, and makes a lot of sense.

 

[Dedalus]

i found out the sati thing above. previous page i think.

i don't think the baby thing anti-virused smith. it's probably the equation trying to balance itself out. again i think someone nailed this above or on a different thread. if neo dies then smith must die otherwise the equation is unbalanced.

the oracle says that the architect is there to balance the equation, and she says that she is there to unbalance it. that's a really good concept. if the oracle wasn't there, the machines would stagnate and remain in perpetual perfection, which means they can't evolve or grow. so the oracle is there to make sure the machines are continually adapting and moving and not just stagnating. in other words she gives the machines a purpose.

i still don't know why Neo could see that golden stuff. what is he seeing? is it a matrix within a matrix? is all reality a simulation? is that how machines see the world? anyone have any ideas?

 

[azz0r]

The oracle sais Neo had his powers outside the Matrix, and couple that with the blinding and he sees light and such where the machines are.

 

[Direwolf]

I was under the impression that what Neo sees is the Source...its the code upon which all the machines run. Almost like the machine's soul.

 

[azz0r]

Most likely. He sees smith as orange code, whereas he cant actually see his surroundings, so yea, I think your right.

 

[IceWORM]

Can someone explain what the machine talking to the Neo represented/symbolized?

I was thinking back in Reloaded where Neo met the architect and at the end when he was about to leave, he says, "if i were u, i would hope we would not meet again," or something along those lines. So did that mean in Revolutions, Neo did come back and met some form of the architect in the machine world?

one more thing...the movie rocked!

 

[thehunter1320]

Originally posted by Dedalus
i think someone nailed this above or on a different thread

i did on the last page....
i think the baby faced machine WAS the "architect" of the machine world... and he made a deal "with satan" (so to speak) for peace between the humans and machines if he destroyed smith.... after the oracle started talking through smith, neo knew what had to be done... and since trinity was gone (which was NOT pointless or else this wouldn't have happened) he freely let smith infect, kill, and destroy his code...

but what I wanna know is in the other versions of the matrix, did a "smith" go mad with being destroyed and go on a virus rampage?

 

[thehunter1320]

BTW, the baby faced machine's name is "Deus Ex Machina"

 

[Direwolf]

Something I'm glad they touched on in the third one, more than in the other two, is that the machines aren't evil.
They're alien. They are totally different from our concept of life, and are very very strange. But they are not totally evil. A great aspect of the Animatrix was that we created them, we went to war with them, and we destroyed the earth. They were merely pragmatic, trying to survive.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Originally posted by thehunter1320
BTW, the baby faced machine's name is "Deus Ex Machina"

Ah, yes...'God in the Machine.'

 

[Alzxul]

The Latin preposition 'e' , 'ex' in this case means from, not in, I'm fairly sure.

 

[Direwolf]

Yeah. Refers to the tricky ways in which Greek theater would stage the entrance of a "god" at the last second to save the hero.

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by Sulkdodds
Ah, yes...'God in the Machine.'

Doesn't it mean "Our savior?"
He says "Deus Ex Machina" in Donnie Darko
And then that stupid kid says: "WHAT?!"
And Donnie replies: "Our savior"

 

[Sulkdodds]

I knew someone would correct me...I knew it.
I love that greek thearter thing. Did you know Deus Ex (the game) is so named because it allows you to make your own choices instead of being told what to do? You did? Bah.

 

[qckbeam]

yep, Deus ex machina means "God from the machine"

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by thehunter1320
BTW, the baby faced machine's name is "Deus Ex Machina"

how do you know it's name is that? where does it say that? i'd like to know.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Maybe its not called that? Who cares! Its a good name. Lets call it that.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Originally posted by Dedalus
how do you know it's name is that? where does it say that? i'd like to know.

Latin apparantly...

Deus ex machina is New Latin for "god from the machine"; it is a translation of the Greek theos ek mekhanes

 

[Alzxul]

It's called that because that's what it says in the credits .

Also surely the Latin should be Deus E Machina. 'e' only becomes 'ex' when the following word is the vowel so you don't get two vowels together. But then again if it is taken from that Greek phrases then I guess they want ex like ek.

Also I thought Deus Ex was called that because you literally 'from God' because you were so powerful. Perhaps I'm wrong

 

[Baal]

I loved Revolutions, it was way better than Reloaded I thought.

In MY OPINION, they left it wide open for another like three movies :O

that's why so many un-answered things...

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by Fenric1138
Latin apparantly...

Deus ex machina is New Latin for "god from the machine"; it is a translation of the Greek theos ek mekhanes

i know what the words mean i'm not stupid. i was referring to:

Originally posted by thehunter1320
BTW, the baby faced machine's name is "Deus Ex Machina"

i'll have to check the credits out next time to make sure, i missed it the first time round. where abouts in the credits does it say, so i can keep an eye out?

 

[Dedalus]

no worries i checked in imdb. it says:

Kevin Michael Richardson .... Deus Ex Machina (as Kevin M. Richardson)

 

[AmishSlayer]

BTW...did anyone stay through all of the credits...to find out if there's any little thing afterwards? It'd be cool if there was something there. I haven't heard anything about an after-credits spiel though..

 

[Frank]

There were 2 reasons to stay after the credits for Reloaded:
1: You wanted to see the trailer for the 3rd Matrix
2: You were in a coma...

 

[thehunter1320]

ya, Deus Ex Machina is in the credits

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by mrchimp
Personally I wish they hadn't filmed both revolutions and reloaded together, but instead waited a year or two to see how people reacted to reloaded and make sure they didn't make the same mistakes again.

Me and my friends love working out the philosophy behind it but then we also like discussing string theory and quantum physics. Most people think that kind of thing is boreing and therefore it does not have massmarket appeal.

The third one has the same problem and is being given really bad reviews because of it, reviewers who wouldn't normally go near a movie like this are reviewing it because they think it is a movie which is supposed to appeal to a mass market like the first one, instead there getting a movie where the highlight is a giant mech battle and... well you get the picture.

i almost wish they had filmed and released all three films together. that way you wouldn't have time to think about each film and build up these unrealistic expectations of the next one before you saw it...i think these expectations of the films are why people don't like them. they think it should happen one way, and it happens another, so they get pissed.

i think the 3rd film is getting bad reviews because people just expected more of the same stuff from the first two. so many people are complaining "there wasn't enough in-matrix scenes!" and "where were the twins??" and things like that. people need to consider the films as a whole, not just as single films.

i think the 3rd film lacked a bit of discovery and that feeling of awe, but if you think about reloaded and revolutions as one film together, it makes more sense.

as far as the massmarket appeal thing, i think they achieved that with the neo/smith battle and the car chase...and of course the APU/dock battle...but those (especially the neo/smith battle and the reference and irony of him becoming a virus, which he accused humans of being.) didn't detract from the main story/theme.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

**spoilers!**
I just saw the movie, and I was surprised that they managed to tie up the loose ends of the other ones.

One thing that bugs me is people complaining that the last two movies made no sense seperately.
There really are only two matrix films (not including the animatrix) Reloaded/Revoloutions was one movie. They split it up because no one wants to sit in a theatre for 6+ hours.

Each sequel had only half a plot as a result. Watch them both back to back and there's a quarter of a movie of in-matrix action, and a quarter filled with zion action while remaining half is a pretty complex plot.

The entire series was about achieving balance. The oracle and the zion refugees (representing change) battled the machines and the architect (representing order), each hoping that they would win by defeating the other.

The movie shows that having one team win only leads to evil (smith) taking over.

In the end, peace is achieved by finding the balance between freedom and constraint. The matrix lives on, but everyone who wants reality is allowed to leave. Neither team should have a superhero Neo or Smith disrupting the balance. It's when Neo realizes this that he allows smith to take him over, thus canceling both out.

As the old Hamtaro theme song would say: "Work together, makes it better."

 

[Sulkdodds]

Reloaded wasnt all that bad. It was quite good actually. If it had been released without hype it would have got better reviews. But people were expecting the best film ever (like Black & White a few years ago). I blame Joel 'There is no bar' Silver.

 

[Javert]

Originally posted by Baal
I loved Revolutions, it was way better than Reloaded I thought.

In MY OPINION, they left it wide open for another like three movies :O

that's why so many un-answered things...

Joel Silver the producer has already confirmed that there will NOT be anymore Matrix movies.

However, TV, comics, and novels are still fair game.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Originally posted by Javert
Joel Silver the producer has already confirmed that there will NOT be anymore Matrix movies.

However, TV, comics, and novels are still fair game.

well thats what hes saying now... but show a producer/diector enough $$$ and any movie can be made..

this cow named Matrix can be milked even more as someone on this forum so brillantly put it.. i believe they will make another Matrix movie, just not any time soon..

 

[mrchimp]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
i almost wish they had filmed and released all three films together. that way you wouldn't have time to think about each film and build up these unrealistic expectations of the next one before you saw it...i think these expectations of the films are why people don't like them. they think it should happen one way, and it happens another, so they get pissed.

i think the 3rd film is getting bad reviews because people just expected more of the same stuff from the first two. so many people are complaining "there wasn't enough in-matrix scenes!" and "where were the twins??" and things like that. people need to consider the films as a whole, not just as single films.

i think the 3rd film lacked a bit of discovery and that feeling of awe, but if you think about reloaded and revolutions as one film together, it makes more sense.

as far as the massmarket appeal thing, i think they achieved that with the neo/smith battle and the car chase...and of course the APU/dock battle...but those (especially the neo/smith battle and the reference and irony of him becoming a virus, which he accused humans of being.) didn't detract from the main story/theme.

Personally I don't think the APU battle has mass market appeal, most people like explosions and a bit of fighting but when it goes on forever (personally I could watch 1 or 2 hourse of mechs fighting as long as it kept the pace up) they start to get a bit fed up. It's very impressive to you and me, but not everybody is that intrested in CGI effects concerning mechs and would rather see CGI concerning bullet time like in the first. If it did have mass market appeal the surely it wouldn't be getting such bad reviews, there's no way someone who liked that kind of thing could sit through it and say it was crap.

I'm sure people are getting all nostalgic about the first one though, which is a pain in the ass for any movie which is a sequal to a very good original. I think the same applies to games, there are very few sequals that live up to peoples expectations and often when playing a sequal you think "I'v seen this all before, but in slightly crappier tech," or in UT2003 case "what the **** do they call this," haveing said that I did play CTF instantgib so much that i have ended up No. 4 in CTF's alltime players (name Reflex, used to be No. 2), tragic isn't it... I'm not even that good.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by mrchimp
Personally I don't think the APU battle has mass market appeal, most people like explosions and a bit of fighting but when it goes on forever (personally I could watch 1 or 2 hourse of mechs fighting as long as it kept the pace up) they start to get a bit fed up. It's very impressive to you and me, but not everybody is that intrested in CGI effects concerning mechs and would rather see CGI concerning bullet time like in the first. If it did have mass market appeal the surely it wouldn't be getting such bad reviews, there's no way someone who liked that kind of thing could sit through it and say it was crap.

I'm sure people are getting all nostalgic about the first one though, which is a pain in the ass for any movie which is a sequal to a very good original. I think the same applies to games, there are very few sequals that live up to peoples expectations and often when playing a sequal you think "I'v seen this all before, but in slightly crappier tech," or in UT2003 case "what the **** do they call this," haveing said that I did play CTF instantgib so much that i have ended up No. 4 in CTF's alltime players (name Reflex, used to be No. 2), tragic isn't it... I'm not even that good.

what i was saying was that if you tink of reloaded and revolutions as one movie, the mass market appeal was there with all the action scenes (notice how i mentioned the car chase and smith brawl from reloaded as well)

the problem with sequels where people really liked the first one, is that they expect more of the same stuff. but it's impossible to live up to people's expectations in that type of situation...you can't make a sequel that's the same as the first movie!

 

[thehunter1320]

^^^^ very true my friend.... good point!

 

[mrchimp]

I'm not sure if cutting bits out (like the rave scene) and sticking the two movies together would make people happy enough to say nice things about the movies (it would make me happy).

I still stand by my beliefe that the APU battle and the philosophy do not have mass market appeal. TBH I don't care too much about the crappy scripting, I can enjoy a movie that doesn't do very well in one area but does very well in another. Anyway I thought Harry Potters acting was absolutely diabolic, if you ask me the whole Harry Potter franchise is a cataclysmic failure but... actually I really can't be bothered to follow that point through.

This made me laugh, and mainly because he could actually be right:

YOU PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS!!!! The only reason you didnt like it is because you didnt understand it.... This Trilogy is the most indepth, symbolic movie ever created. Everything in this movie is symbolic of a spirtual myth or premise. I have never seen a movie since Star wars that has tackled the epic genre and managed to pull it off so convincingly. Your just watching the movie excpecting some big awnsr like "And the murderer is...." But know, this movie was designed to make you think, theorize and ponder, its a refreshing change to have a movie that lets you think for youreslf, You idiots go watch Bad Boys 2
Chris,Australia

Although i don't think they will like badboys 2 either.

 

[Direwolf]

In the shower today (isn't that when you always think of these things?), I had a pretty good thought.
The first Matrix was acceptable as an action movie with philosphy and epic story tying it together.
But Reloaded and Revolutions are really epic philosophical movies with some action scenes in them.
Seemed to clear a lot up at the time.
And I do think that comparisons to Star Wars are very apt, there are a lot of similarities (disregarding prequels).

 

[RadiuS]

im just starting to wonder about this: why do you think it is called Matrix: revolutions, and not Matrix: revolution?

 

[CokeLite]

Revolutions sounds cooler