Stingy Americans?: U.N. official's comment hits nerve

gh0st

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- A suggestion by a U.N. official that the world's richest nations were "stingy" irritated the Bush administration, especially when U.S. aid for Asia's earthquake is expected to eventually rise from the millions to more than $1 billion.

The comment reopened the question of how to measure American generosity. The answer ultimately depends on the measuring stick.

The U.S. government is always near the top in total humanitarian aid dollars -- even before private donations are counted -- but it finishes near the bottom of the list of rich countries when that money is compared to gross national product.

The chief of U.S. Agency for International Development, which distributes foreign aid, was quick to point out Tuesday that foreign assistance for development and emergency relief rose from $10 billion in President Clinton's last year to $24 billion under President Bush in 2003.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said assistance for this week's earthquake and tsunamis alone will eventually exceed $1 billion.

"The notion that the United States is not generous is simply not true, factually," USAID chief Andrew Natsios told The Associated Press in an interview. "We've had one of the largest increases of any country in the world."

But even Natsios acknowledged Tuesday that the initial $35 million aid package the administration has crafted for earthquake and tsunami victims has completely drained his agency's emergency relief fund, which already provides assistance from Darfur to Iraq.

That means his agency will need to ask Congress or the White House for more money.

"We just spent it," Natsios said. "We'll be talking to the (White House) budget office ... what to do at this point."

Natsios said the Pentagon also is spending tens of millions to mobilize an additional relief operation, with C-130 transport planes winging their way from Dubai to Indonesia with pre-stocked supplies of tents, blankets, food and water bags.

As of early Tuesday, dozens of countries and relief groups had pledged $81 million in help for South and East Asia, said the Geneva-based U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

The United States uses the most common measure of the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group of 30 rich nations that counts development aid.

By that measure, the United States spent almost $15.8 billion for "official development assistance" to developing countries in 2003. Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion.

That doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance.

Measured another way, as a percentage of gross national product, the OECD's figures on development aid show that as of April, none of the world's richest countries donated even 1 percent of its gross national product. Norway was highest, at 0.92 percent; the United States was last, at 0.14 percent.

Such figures were what prompted Jan Egeland -- the United Nations' emergency relief coordinator and former head of the Norwegian Red Cross -- to challenge the giving of rich nations.

"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries," Egeland said. "And it is beyond me, why are we so stingy, really.... Even Christmas time should remind many Western countries at least how rich we have become."

Egeland told reporters Tuesday his complaint wasn't directed at any nation in particular.

But Powell clearly took umbrage while making the rounds of the morning television news shows. He said he wished Egeland hadn't made the comment and reaffirmed that the Bush administration will follow up with assistance that could stretch into the billions of dollars.

The White House also defended the U.S. record of giving.

"We outmatch the contributions of other nations combined; we'll continue to do so," Bush spokesman Trent Duffy told reporters in Crawford, Texas, where the president is spending a post-Christmas vacation at his ranch.

Natsios said the Paris organization's figures overlook a key factor -- the billions more Americans give each year in private donations.

Americans last year gave an estimated $241 billion to charitable causes -- domestic and foreign -- according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That's up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign.

"That's a European standard, this percentage that's used," Natsios said. "The United States, for 40 years, has never accepted these standards that it should be based on the gross national product. We base it on the actual dollars that we spent."

"The reason is that our gross national product is so enormous. And our growth rates are so much higher than the other wealthy nations."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/stingy.americans.ap/index.html
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Good article, shows just why we dont, and shouldent, listen to the world community.
 
obivously the world is jealous that we are so rich, and evil doers are causing natural disasters to make us spend more money

seriously, we should stop handing out moeny for 1 year and see how much they need us
 
I belive the point is that if Joe who has 10 000 dollars donates 2000 dollars and Jack who has 100 000 000 dollars donates 4000 dollars Joe is still the more generus, as it hits him more then the donation Jack gave hit him.
 
Eg. said:
obivously the world is jealous that we are so rich,

Thats laughable, if the world is a 10 year old kid, yeah, then maybe its 'jealous'

Eg. said:
and evil doers are causing natural disasters to make us spend more money

Yes, Dr Destructo and his earthquake beam!

Eg. said:
seriously, we should stop handing out moeny for 1 year and see how much they need us

most of it's charity, NGO's etc... the government could stop spending, but then the political situation for you would go to hell.

EDIT: HunterSeeker has the point that I agree with.

gh0st said:
shows just why we dont, and shouldent, listen to the world community.

what the hell??
 
omg, so many narrow minded comments.... its not about the US or Europe,, or whos poor , or rich.. its about the world , and humans as a unit.. all this plite over whos doing what.. is somehow valid for sake of global impressions?, egotistical nonesense, which is quite scary to hear.
 
HunterSeeker said:
I belive the point is that if Joe who has 10 000 dollars donates 2000 dollars and Jack who has 100 000 000 dollars donates 4000 dollars Joe is still the more generus, as it hits him more then the donation Jack gave hit him.

Because obviously it's not what you give, it's how much it hurts the donator. :LOL:
 
It takes time...we can't just give $1 billion right off the bat.It will take at least a couple weeks...so everyone needs to be patient. :|
 
Erm it dosent sound like he directed at a specific nation.

Rich nations include basically most of western europe.

Actually just thinking about it if you call someone stingy they will give more money to the cause.

Yes your stingy, so is Britan, and yes you europe uber stingers.
 
Oh America, you're so stingy for not giving away MORE of your money to an organization that just went through a major humanitarian and financial scandal! You already donate millions, but since you don't give more you are horrible!

Nevermind the money lost in the oil for food scandal. You have no reason to suspect the money may not be used in the right places.
 
The article said he wasn't pointing the finger at any particular nation...
And I dare you to compare what we spend in aid relief, and positive programs to what we spend on weapons and our war machine. The difference there is crystal clear.
 
Stingy my ass.. I think we oughta show em just how stingy we can be.. theyll change tune then. Were not obligated to give anyone anything considering were almost always the one who ends up helping in the first place. They think were stingy? Better be glad I'm not in office.. i'd give em a good reason to call us stingy... fuc kin' ingrates
 
He_Who_Is_Steve said:
I never do this, but...quoted for emphasis.

Seriously, what the hell, dude?
I'd like to second that, what the hell?

Do you actually believe that we shouldn't listen to the world community? That's a laughable (and horribly arrogant) statement. So basically, you're saying the United States doesn't need anyone else, since we're the "best country in the world"? I guess that explains why our "coalition of the willing" is so small...

With all of the outsourcing that's happening, along with the fact that we import such a huge amount of products from the global community makes me think twice about shunning the whole world.

And so what if a U.N. representative calls us stingy? We constantly call members of other countries "evil do-ers" who "hate us for our freedom."

Not to mention we proudly flaunt our wealth in front of the entire world, routinely telling the world communty that we are the greatest nation on earth.

The article said he wasn't pointing the finger at any particular nation...
And I dare you to compare what we spend in aid relief, and positive programs to what we spend on weapons and our war machine. The difference there is crystal clear.
Agreed.
 
HunterSeeker said:
I belive the point is that if Joe who has 10 000 dollars donates 2000 dollars and Jack who has 100 000 000 dollars donates 4000 dollars Joe is still the more generus, as it hits him more then the donation Jack gave hit him.

Charity is a competition remember, nothing to do with compassion or humanitarianism, its all about having your name on a check as you take a picture with some toothless third world refugee so you can proudly proclaim yourself the most generous man alive.

The whole world is full of nitpicking assholes bitching and moaning about the other guy. You'd think the world would be able to stand united scince everyone is just a bunch of whiney douchebags anyway.
 
We give money, all that is in our current aid quota, with hundreds of millions more on the way, were called stingy. We send tens of millions of dollars worth of American soldiers to assist, and were called stingy. I assume it was directed to America in particular, it says so in the title of the article.

Its a lose-lose situation for America. What would happen if we didnt give anything? Because our country has more money, that doesnt mean that our dollars are (figuritively, of course) worth any less than that of Europes, or any other countries. Its the height of arrogance from that particular rep. My fear is that this rep's sentiments are similar to those throughout the UN (which IS what I mean my int'l community, sorry for any misunderstanding there).

And so what if a U.N. representative calls us stingy? We constantly call members of other countries "evil do-ers" who "hate us for our freedom."
Do we call european countries evil doers? Do we say THEY hate our freedoms? I'm also not sure what you mean by members of other countries, like in the UN? I'd like to see where you heard THAT.

Not to mention we proudly flaunt our wealth in front of the entire world, routinely telling the world communty that we are the greatest nation on earth.
Yes! America wealth parades, allll through the world! Everyone will know how RICH we are! Honestly, what the hell. Explain how it is we flaunt our wealth in front of the world. Is it by giving so "little" to countries in need?

omg, so many narrow minded comments.... its not about the US or Europe,, or whos poor , or rich.. its about the world , and humans as a unit.. all this plite over whos doing what.. is somehow valid for sake of global impressions?, egotistical nonesense, which is quite scary to hear.
America isnt the ones getting on the moral high horse over who donates most.
 
Its a lose-lose situation for America. What would happen if we didnt give anything? Because our country has more money, that doesnt mean that our dollars are (figuritively, of course) worth any less than that of Europes, or any other countries. Its the height of arrogance from that particular rep. My fear is that this rep's sentiments are similar to those throughout the UN (which IS what I mean my int'l community, sorry for any misunderstanding there).
I agree that it's a lose-lose situation, but I can see why the other countries are upset.
Its the height of arrogance from that particular rep. My fear is that this rep's sentiments are similar to those throughout the UN (which IS what I mean my int'l community, sorry for any misunderstanding there).
Ah, I see. I misunderstood what you were saying. Unfortunately, we don't exactly have many fans in the UN at present :(
Do we call european countries evil doers? Do we say THEY hate our freedoms? I'm also not sure what you mean by members of other countries, like in the UN? I'd like to see where you heard THAT.
My point is that we constantly point fingers at other countries, so shouldn't be very upset if a UN rep has a personal issue with US funding (but I do understand your worry that the feeling is mutual among the UN.)
Yes! America wealth parades, allll through the world! Everyone will know how RICH we are! Honestly, are you stupid? Explain how it is we flaunt our wealth in front of the world. Is it by giving so "little" to countries in need?
We constantly title ourselves the greatest country in the world (although, I'm sure most countries are that arrogant) but I feel that we act too superior in the world community. That was the point I was trying to make. I may have been hasy, but I still think we need to work more on keeping allies.

I'd like to think that I'm not stupid, but I find it strange that you don't see how the United States constantly tries to be the biggest and best at everything. We always talk about all of our great oppertunities and freedoms. Even if it isn't intentional, I think it's quite obvious to other countries that we are much richer than they are.

And I'm not saying that the US is a huge drain on the world and sould be eliminated, I'm just saying we aren't perfect, and we makes mistakes just like everybody else.
 
-Frosty- said:
I still think we need to work more on keeping allies.
Exactly, but the fact that were derided for giving (as far as I've heard), the largest chunk of money to the area is very worrying. Its sad that we cant do anything right in some peoples eyes.
 
gh0st said:
Exactly, but the fact that were derided for giving (as far as I've heard), the largest chunk of money to the area is very worrying. Its sad that we cant do anything right in some peoples eyes.
I agree.

My intention was to point out that although we do good things, we also make mistakes. I apologise if I was hasty, what fueled my post was the misunderstanding with your initial statement.
 
-Frosty- said:
My intention was to point out that although we do good things, we also make mistakes.
How did we make a mistake when we gave money and our soldiers to help another country?
 
gh0st said:
How did we make a mistake when we gave money and our soldiers to help another country?
We have made a mistake by alienating the majority of the world community.
 
-Frosty- said:
We have made a mistake by alienating the majority of the world community.
Sigh, I'll bite. What does Iraq have to do with this?
 
gh0st said:
Sigh, I'll bite. What does Iraq have to do with this?
Ghost, I don't want to get into that :p

My point was that both sides have the right to be angry in this situation. The United States pays a huge amount of aid, and it isn't appreciated. But many countries have valid reasons to be angry with us, and it's possible that they are just channeling that anger to this issue.

I'm not trying to lead this conversation to Iraq, and frankly, I wouldn't have started to argue if I had understood your initial comment. I agree that it was ignorant of the rep to imply that we don't aid other countries.

But I still agree with Innvervision to an extent. It's true that we help the world by providing aid money, but we have also damaged the world in other ways (as have other countries, I'm not trying to demonize the U.S.) I feel that we have alienated the global community in more way than one, and I hope we can gain back our allies.
 
you know there are other rich nations out there, not just the US ..cnn kneejerk reaction as the statement was directed at all rich western countries

" Mr. Egeland [the U.N. emergency relief coordinator] expressed concern, however, that several rich donor countries are becoming less generous, even as needs continue to grow.

"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries. It is beyond me why we are so stingy," Mr. Egeland says. "Actually foreign assistance for many countries now is 0.1 or 0.2 percent of gross national income, that is stingy."

from the actual source ..CNN should really do their homework

this is what CNN reported:


" ....and went so far as to call the U.S. government and others "stingy" on foreign aid in general"


where in the above quote does Egeland mention the US?

this is just one example of the blantant undermining of the UN in US media
 
CptStern said:
this is just one example of the blantant undermining of the UN in US media
the UN does a decent job of undermining itself, I wouldent blame US media for it, but thanks for the heads up on that fact.

I just thought I'd add this, from the CBC:
"The immediate humanitarian response is in its early days and the U.S. at $15 million is one of the most generous countries so far, and it is exactly what we need to get started," he [Egeland] said.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/28/reliefeffort041228.html
Perhaps he's not such a bad guy ;)
 
there's no room for patriotism during a humanitarian crisis, but thanks for the added info
 
CptStern said:
there's no room for patriotism during a humanitarian crisis, but thanks for the added info
Whats patriotism got to do with anything?
 
Stern, why did you leave out the wink after that last quote?

Why did you leave out the part where I said "thanks for the heads up?" Somebody isnt practicing what they preach :) selective quoting = bad.
 
gh0st said:
Sigh, I'll bite. What does Iraq have to do with this?

heh... you're typecast now, face it- you've made mistakes, and now the world don't like you no more :)
 
Sgt_Shellback said:
Charity is something is for losers. That's all that needs to be said here.

The people giving or taking?
 
excatly, if you hear your rival country has given 15 million pounds/dollars/euros whatever, you would want to give out more, to seem more genourous and therefore be more "respected" by the world.
so i guess how "rich" the country is doesnt make a difference. imo :D
 
bliink said:
heh... you're typecast now, face it- you've made mistakes, and now the world don't like you no more :)
Yep. We are now and forever "those guys who invaded Iraq".

It's like when you cheat on a girl...years after, you're discussing what you should have for dinner, and you say "I want McDonald's." She then counters with, "Hey, remember how you cheated on me? Yeah, we're going to Chili's."
 
It's not so much what you did in the past like invading Iraq, every country makes mistakes like Germany in the second ww, but you still are justifiying the action, and standing behind it, hence giving the impression that you are going to do it in the future cause you think it kicks ass to destroy nations, imagine Germany saying that WWII was good and they don't regret it, and re-electing Hitler :)
 
I loved gh0st not even thinking to acknowledge he made a mistake.

I totally agree with that UN official. If you have 200 000 and you give 100, just like the man who only had 200, then you are, without any doubt, "stingy". If you can give more than anyone else, by far, than why wouldn't you ?

People like some of those who posted here are the reason why the World forgets about the whole "good things" the USA does.
 
we post here and act like this because the world forgot how many nice things we do, we are the ones reacting
 
Grey Fox said:
It's not so much what you did in the past like invading Iraq, every country makes mistakes like Germany in the second ww, but you still are justifiying the action, and standing behind it, hence giving the impression that you are going to do it in the future cause you think it kicks ass to destroy nations, imagine Germany saying that WWII was good and they don't regret it, and re-electing Hitler :)
I agree, and feel embaressed that we re-elected the administration that made the mistake. The very least we can do is admit we made a mistake, but we haven't even done that.
Sprafa said:
I loved gh0st not even thinking to acknowledge he made a mistake.
And it wasn't the US media's fault either for bad reporting, it was all the evil UN :p

gh0st said:
the UN does a decent job of undermining itself, I wouldent blame US media for it, but thanks for the heads up on that fact.

(I'm not trying to pick a fight gh0st, I'm just poking fun :))
 
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