Strange thing about Iraq

[Sprafa]

Really? I received a thank-you from Kuwait, my President, his commanders... No one else.

No one else...sure... Saudi Arabia went along with the invasion, a nation that in the 70's cut the oil to the USA because of the Israel-Arab conflict. Turkey allowed the bases that still are there today... It started a lot of alliances that were considered temporary but that soon helped the world to get better.

The truth is that there were the usual debates whether or not the War had been "clean", etc., but everyone agreed that Saddam could not be allowed to invade Kuwait and get away with it.

 

[CptStern]

East Timor was necessary!

But I know about Saddam-US connections, I mean Rumsfeld visited him.

http://peteashton.com/library/pics/saddam_rumsfeld_large.jpg

Indonesia invaded East timor with US/CIA help leading to 25 years of atrocities - one third of the population was killed during this period - 200,000

 

[CptStern]

hmmm no one's commenting on the fact that the UN tried to charge saddam with war crimes and the US vetoed the resolution

 

[Sprafa]

Indonesia invaded East timor with US/CIA help leading to 25 years of atrocities - one third of the population was killed during this period - 200,000

Sure, but then Portugal asked for help to deal with it's past.

We left East Timor to be invaded while it was still supposed to be ours.

 

[Sprafa]

hmmm no one's commenting on the fact that the UN tried to charge saddam with war crimes and the US vetoed the resolution

They won't. Fanatics never admit they're wrong.

 

[CptStern]

Sure, but then Portugal asked for help to deal with it's past.

We left East Timor to be invaded while it was still supposed to be ours.

because portugal was pressured by the US to give up east timor

 

[blahblahblah]

hmmm no one's commenting on the fact that the UN tried to charge saddam with war crimes and the US vetoed the resolution

And I said that proves the UN is ineffective and incompetent at their job. Tell me I am wrong.

I've never heard you say anything good about America (this is refering to every part of American society) before. Never. You act like we are a bunch of intentional baby killers. Once I finish my classes later tonight, I think I will go kill some babies.

 

[blahblahblah]

They won't. Fanatics never admit they're wrong.

WTF? I'm a fanatic because I am a republican and support most of Bush's policies? I guess I work for the Gestapo then. Oh wait, I see , I can't have a different interpretation of events so I must be a fanatic. Time to kill some more babies under Bush's name.

 

[CptStern]

And I said that proves the UN is ineffective and incompetent at their job. Tell me I am wrong.

typical response, ..... for the last time ..the UN only fuctions like a committee ..if member states fail to provide troops the UN has NO army. How can they arrest the leader of a nation if they dont have an army? There's no way any other country was going to stand up against the US ..they'd just threaten to cut off aid or impose sanctions. Just like they did when many countries wanted to sign the War crimes tribunal

I've never heard you say anything good about America (this is refering to every part of American society) before. Never. You act like we are a bunch of intentional baby killers. Once I finish my classes later tonight, I think I will go kill some babies.

again, typical response, shoot the messenger, ignore the message

...wtf? do you not care about the facts? Do you not care that your government gave saddam the green light days after he killed hundreds of thousands of Iranian soldiers using CHEMICAL WEAPONS! or that he gassed the Kurds with full US knowledge ...yet they OPPOSED his persecution? You cant change what happened. I've given you proof but you ignore it.


btw I've been to the US many times and have family in florida ...that's the LAST time I establish I am NOT anti-american ..I dont hate americans I HATE US FOREIGN POLICY!!! ffs

 

[blahblahblah]

typical response, ..... for the last time ..the UN only fuctions like a committee ..if member states fail to provide troops the UN has NO army. How can they arrest the leader of a nation if they dont have an army? There's no way any other country was going to stand up against the US ..they'd just threaten to cut off aid or impose sanctions. Just like they did when many countries wanted to sign the War crimes tribunal

again, typical response, shoot the messenger, ignore the message

...wtf? do you not care about the facts? Do you not care that your government gave saddam the green light days after he killed hundreds of thousands of Iranian soldiers using CHEMICAL WEAPONS! or that he gassed the Kurds with full US knowledge ...yet they OPPOSED his persecution? You cant change what happened. I've given you proof but you ignore it.


btw I've been to the US many times and have family in florida ...that's the LAST time I establish I am NOT anti-american ..I dont hate americans I HATE US FOREIGN POLICY!!! ffs

So you admit the UN is useless?

What do you want done? The US to stop being a world superpower? Perhaps fly another plane into our economic heart? Maybe fly a plane in to the White House?

You basically want another country to take the US's place as lone super power. Imagine what the world would be like if China was the lone superpower. That would be fun. I don't see you banging down their door about Tibet or other numerous humanitarian violations.

Name one super power that has been good as the US. Maybe the USSR of the past, perhaps the upcoming China? What about Germany (WWI and WWII), or France (Napoleon era)? What about Prussia? Lets not mention the Romans, Greeks and the Otamans shall we? From my perspective, the US is the best super power it can be. There is room for improvement, but you are acting like the US routinely does stuff to make Hilter look bad.

I see the proof, but you can't change the past. Maybe I should impeach the presidents of years gone past. That would fix the problem.

I have an idea to fix this situation, lets install a dictator for the US, that will surely fix the problem. Why don't we have an isolationist policy as well - except the damn world breaks out in world wars when super power do that.

Wait, I have the final solution. The US shouldn't impose its power, but give its money to other countries. Well, we saw what happened when we try that.

It is a lose lose situation. Complaining is important, but jumping up and down doesn't fix the problem. Do you think Bush is going invade another country. He has publicy said he wouldn't. Bush has been railed from his Iraq policy. If he does invade another country, shame on me. Bush has also said that he is staying away from Iran to pursue diplomatic options. He doesn't want anymore wars to deal with.

But you want stuff done in other countries as well. What do you propose to do? I guess we should let the Un as is and sit with indecision on every topic that comes to hand.

btw - I'm pretty sure you have said more than a couple of words on the US's domestic policy. If you are against US's domestic policy and its foreign policy, how do you not expect a person to call you Anti-American? Maybe you like our food?

/rant

 

[CptStern]

So you admit the UN is useless?

dear god is that what you want me to say? I'll say that when you admit The US was wrong to invade Iraq

What do you want done? The US to stop being a world superpower? Perhaps fly another plane into our economic heart? Maybe fly a plane in to the White House?

it's pretty obvious what I want: stop effing meddling in other countries affairs for your own good. Stop crying victem when you are actually the agressors, stop currying public opinion with lies and fabricated evidence ..we dont want you as a superpower, we dont need you as a superpower, we dont want you to police the world. When's the last time china invaded a western country? (bet you'll say cuz the US would stop them :upstare: )

You basically want another country to take the US's place as lone super power. Imagine what the world would be like if China was the lone superpower. That would be fun. I don't see you banging down their door about Tibet or other numerous humanitarian violations.

you're wrong I was part of the protest when chinese delegates came to canada recently ..we protested against their occupation of tibet ..so dont persume to know what I do

Name one super power that has been good as the US. Maybe the USSR of the past, perhaps the upcoming China? What about Germany (WWI and WWII), or France (Napoleon era)? What about Prussia? Lets not mention the Romans, Greeks and the Otamans shall we? From my perspective, the US is the best super power it can be. There is room for improvement, but you are acting like the US routinely does stuff to make Hilter look bad.

who cares? I'm not talking about anyone else.. ..stop sidestepping

I see the proof, but you can't change the past. Maybe I should impeach the presidents of years gone past. That would fix the problem.

maybe if more americans knew about this instead of blindly following whatever your leader says the war wouldnt have happened

I have an idea to fix this situation, lets install a dictator for the US, that will surely fix the problem. Why don't we have an isolationist policy as well - except the damn world breaks out in world wars when super power do that.

well there were a few congressmen calling for the UN to observe the 2004 elections ..I'm not the only one who thinks not all is kosher in washington

Wait, I have the final solution. The US shouldn't impose its power, but give its money to other countries. Well, we saw what happened when we try that.

you're being silly

It is a loose loose situation. Complaining is important, but jumping up and down doesn't fix the problem. Do you think Bush is going invade another country. He has publicy said he wouldn't. Bush has been railed from his Iraq policy. If he does invade another country, shame on me. Bush has also said that he is staying away from Iran to pursue diplomatic options. He doesn't want anymore wars to deal with.

bullshit, syria and Iran are next, it's no surprise to anyone

But you want stuff done in other countries as well. What do you propose to do? I guess we should let the Un as is and sit with indecision on every topic that comes to hand.

I propose that instead of the US sending the CIA to overthrow democratically elected governments they re-direct those resources to help the poor in the US ..or if they fancy the third world

btw - I'm pretty sure you have said more than a couple of words on the US's domestic policy. If you are against US's domestic policy and its foreign policy, how do you not expect a person to call you Anti-American? Maybe you like our food?

link me

 

[Sprafa]

because portugal was pressured by the US to give up east timor

WTF?

We were never pressured by no one. We just dissed our colonies and started giving them indepence, but East Timor went "solo". Therefore, when Indonesia invaded we didn't really care.

When the 99 crisis broke through Portugal was in the front line to get them independent.

 

[CptStern]

WTF?

We were never pressured by no one. We just dissed our colonies and started giving them indepence, but East Timor went "solo". Therefore, when Indonesia invaded we didn't really care.

When the 99 crisis broke through Portugal was in the front line to get them independent.

yes I realise that, but I was talking about 1975. Remember that in 1974 a military revolt led to independence from portugal ..I never said portugal was complicit in what happened to east timor

here's a good read

 

[Sprafa]

yes I realise that, but I was talking about 1975. Remember that in 1974 a military revolt led to independence from portugal ..I never said portugal was complicit in what happened to east timor

here's a good read

CptStern, I live in Portugal. You will refrain from trying to teach me history of my country.

btw, do you have MSN?

you sound like a smart guy.

 

[CptStern]

CptStern, I live in Portugal. You will refrain from trying to teach me history of my country.

btw, do you have MSN?

you sound like a smart guy.

yo se que eres portugues

remember my pm? Galicia?

I'm not trying to give you a history lesson, just trying to define the US' role in east timor, not portugal

I do but I'm at work and I'd get in big shit if someone saw me

btw thx for the compliment ..getting called anti-american, commie, hippie etc really drags me down sometimes, I need to hear a compliment or two every now and then

you're no mental midget either - you be smart ..btw your english is impeccable

 

[Sprafa]

yo se que eres portugues

Hmmm...nice try. But we have our own language here :burp:

remember my pm? Galicia?

I'm not trying to give you a history lesson, just trying to define the US' role in east timor, not portugal

I do but I'm at work and I'd get in big shit if someone saw me

Hey, I'll just add you to the list. Won't bother you now mate. After all ,you don't get into MSN at work do you

and I strangly don't remember your PM...

btw thx for the compliment ..getting called anti-american, commie, hippie etc really drags me down sometimes, I need to hear a compliment or two every now and then

..btw your english is impeccable

I have a lot of practice in these forums....

 

[CptStern]

Hmmm...nice try. But we have our own language here :burp:

ah but you understood me

Hey, I'll just add you to the list. Won't bother you now mate. After all ,you don't get into MSN at work do you

no I cant at work cuz chat programs are forbidden ...cant even have one installed

and I strangly don't remember your PM...

oh noes!11 I'm utterly forgetable

 

[janne]

How about learning some history (You just MUST be US)

Live under dictatorship for 20 years. Then you know. You SHOULD have imagination enough to understand that all by your lonesome.

Where was the resistance when Saddam was in charge? Now that the US is there, we've got resistance movements appearing every five minutes. According to New York Times, all of western Iraq is under rebel command. The members of the new Iraq government there have mostly been assassinated or kidnapped.

But no such resistance was around during Saddam's rule... it's almost as if the Iraqis wholeheartedly supported Saddam. You know, even a badass dictator needs support. He needs an army and maybe some politicians and other people. If the resistance in Iraq can take on the US military, it seems unlikely that Saddam's army was a deterrent againts rebellion.

On top of that, we've got rogue terrorists kidnapping and murdering anyone who has the wrong skin pigment. Some Finnish businessmen were murdered just for being white. Apparently, the Iraq resistance feels that they can get along without trade, commerce or diplomacy. Allah will no doubt provide them with food, shelter and technology. Or whatever.

Why don't we all just leave Iraq alone. If they like living under an insane dictator, so be it. Maybe they'll discover democracy and sanity within the next five hundred years. Or not.

 

[lePobz]

Did you hear some speaker guy at the Republican Convention saying 'Kerry wants to wait until we have UN approval to go to war.... We want to go to war when Bush says so!!' ... and then everybody cheered it... jesus, them republicans are so full of themselves and their country, they can't see what a mess they're making.

I fear if Bush wins these elections, there'll be some serious global trouble.

 

[Sprafa]

Live under dictatorship for 20 years. Then you know. You SHOULD have imagination enough to understand that all by your lonesome.

**** you and that!

Portugal was under a dictatorship until 1974, we freed ourselves! We didn't need nor no one cared enough to get us out of fascism.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I think the quote was closer to.. "America doesn't need UN approval to defend itself.." But nice propoganda anyway.

 

[CptStern]

**** you and that!

Portugal was under a dictatorship until 1974, we freed ourselves! We didn't need nor no one cared enough to get us out of fascism.

same thing with spain ...no one cared that Franco killed thousands

 

[Neutrino]

I think the quote was closer to.. "America doesn't need UN approval to defend itself.." But nice propoganda anyway.

Ah, but that still brings up some problems since, as it turns out, we weren't actually defending ourselves from Iraq. We were just invading a country.

 

[Sprafa]

Ah, but that still brings up some problems since, as it turns out, we weren't actually defending ourselves from Iraq. We were just invading a country.

Bush himself said that it was a "preventive" war against no immediate threat.

 

[Neutrino]

Bush himself said that it was a "preventive" war against no immediate threat.

Ya, that's one of the things that really scares me. If he won't admit we were wrong to invade Iraq then what's to stop him from using the "preventive war" excuse to attack any number of other countries that he sees as a threat to us.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Ya, that's one of the things that really scares me. If he won't admit we were wrong to invade Iraq then what's to stop him from using the "preventive war" excuse to attack any number of other countries that he sees as a threat to us.

I think it's good for some other countries to fear that very thing...

 

[clarky003]

Did you hear some speaker guy at the Republican Convention saying 'Kerry wants to wait until we have UN approval to go to war.... We want to go to war when Bush says so!!' ... and then everybody cheered it... jesus, them republicans are so full of themselves and their country, they can't see what a mess they're making.

I fear if Bush wins these elections, there'll be some serious global trouble.

Ditto, but he doesnt care aslong as he keeps his corporate relations in good stead, Americans wont complain because half of them dont believe in corruption , and the importance of oil, and they will see the benifits most immediately with cheaper oil prices when they get the flow of oil out of Iraq in control.. , then in the future it gets to the point where the US controls through buddy corporations, the wide majority of world oil,,, So when it begins to run out , they have the upper hand, and may possibly hold the world to ransom..

very small minded. Any corporate buisnessman would do it that same way,, its just ashame most of them are ass's, and its defiantely ashame hes a president with so many ties in with those ass's.

 

[Sprafa]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/27021.htm

I'm wordless. You now understand what will happen if Bush wins.

clarky003, how come you're never on MSN ;(

 

[CptStern]

I think it's good for some other countries to fear that very thing...

didnt work in Iraq

what most americans dont realise is that the US is losing the war in iraq ..they cant sustain this forever ..they're getting upwards of 30 attacks a day

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/27021.htm

I'm wordless. You now understand what will happen if Bush wins.

clarky003, how come you're never on MSN ;(

I'm speachless that you're referencing a tabloid... BTW Your english is very good.

 

[Sprafa]

didnt work in Iraq

what most americans dont realise is that the US is losing the war in iraq ..they cant sustain this forever ..they're getting upwards of 30 attacks a day

There are actually some ppl that thinkg Bush is winning the War on Terror...

 

[Neutrino]

I think it's good for some other countries to fear that very thing...

I don't really agree, but even if I conceded that point can you imagine the backlash of world opinion if we actually started another "preventive" war? I don't see how that would do anything but hurt international relations even further and only help to distabalize the UN to an even greater degree, something I don't think we need to do right now.

Oh and kind of on the subject I like this quote from Bush:

I don't think you give timelines to dictators.

Source

Seems just a bit ironic considering what happened in Iraq before the war don't you think?

 

[Sprafa]

I'm speachless that you're referencing a tabloid... BTW Your english is very good.

I don't think it makes it less true that the Arabs hate Bush.

 

[CptStern]

There are actually some ppl that thinkg Bush is winning the War on Terror...

heheh there was a recent poll where 40% of americans thought the US found WMD in iraq

 

[Sprafa]

heheh there was a recent poll where 40% of americans thought the US found WMD in iraq

I guess 20 rounds of morter with some gas is WMD....

 

[CptStern]

hehe some think a sling shot and a handful of marbles are WMD!

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

didnt work in Iraq

what most americans dont realise is that the US is losing the war in iraq ..they cant sustain this forever ..they're getting upwards of 30 attacks a day

True it didn't work in Iraq... I wish Saadam would have cowed to the pressure from the US & UN... But he didn't.

We've had losses in Iraq but I don't think we're losing in Iraq... The interim Govt is having problems but they are working the issues... Sadr said recently he wants his forces to switch to a politcal party... That's great news. I hope he does it.

I don't think it would bother you if Iraq turned out to be a great success in the end... I'm pushing for that.

 

[clarky003]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/27021.htm

I'm wordless. You now understand what will happen if Bush wins.

clarky003, how come you're never on MSN ;(

;( , sorry dude dont get time for it much, im out and about and all over the place. and when I do go on your not on LOL

 

[CptStern]

I don't think it makes it less true that the Arabs hate Bush.

hate is a strong word, but most peeps around the world dislike Bush ..seriously I dont anyone who supports the war ...not my neighbours not my parents not my co-workers ..even my cousins in spain dont believe the justification behind the war

 

[Sprafa]

What you Republicans have to get is that the tougher crowd in this election is the Arabs. They won't be convinced that Bush is going to be a good President, and they'll bomb you if they're not convinced.