Team Fortress 2 Hands-On

[-smash-]

GameInformer, keeping their promise, has published their hands-on preview of Valve's upcoming first-person shooter, Team Fortress 2. The preview follows a two-part interview from GI - part 1http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0326.1849.05812.htm & part 2http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0327.1745.51023.htm - and it confirms some rumors that have been circling the internets as of late -- I.e. teleporting is in, concing is out. Check it:

...Territorial Control maps are different than Control Point maps due to the fact that the control points you fight over are changing through out the match. Hydro was the map that I played that was dedicated to this game type. Hydro has two bases on either side, and between it is a central point where four control points reside, which in the beginning of a map are distributed evenly. The game picks two points and creates a battle between them for a round. You fight over the two points, and whichever team wins, wins the opposing team's points. The object is for one team to win all four points, and then take over the opposing teams base for the final round...

Details on the classes, weapons, and some more confirmed rumors can be seen in GameInformer's Team Fortress 2 preview found herehttp://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0328.1722.34101.htm.[br][br]Computer & Video Gameshttp://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=160763 has published their hands-on impressions on Team Fortress 2 as well.

On top of all this, Team Fortress 2 simply feels like a really solid online shooter. The running speeds, the jumping, the weapon balance - from what I've played, it's all absolutely spot-on. Valve are building on over a decade of experience, and as I'm
sure you've noticed, their back-catalogue of online shooters contains some of the most played games in existence. For them to get something fundamentally wrong with Team Fortress 2 would be damn near impossible (touch wood).

To read CVG's preview, direct your browser herehttp://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=160763.

 

[Naudian]

I don't wanna reeead D: I wanna play it and not spoil anything more! D: D: Must...resist..

 

[Kahonee]

AWESOME!!! The Spy is going to pwn all!!!:cheers:

 

[Asuka]

YES!!! READING NOW!!OSQAlkfjnr;sztj 5684waerfwaerA IOMGMAIP#J@!(

 

[DesertChicken]

Nice, they all get different melee weapons.

 

[riles]

What is a sapper?

P.S. very sad about conc removal... But I guess that's what Fortress Forever is there for.

 

[sensai]

I have a hard time seeing this game being fast-paced. I would imagine they've taken out bunnyhopping as well as concing.

Also, how are they balancing out the SGs? They already talked about how scouts can't take the heat from these machines, and I seriously don't see how a syringe or medi-ray from a medic could do any damage to an SG. The review talks about the ability of a soldier to take out an SG, but they also discuss how much slower he is - despite his rocket jumping abilities. With that in mind, why would a soldier be effective on offense if he can't keep up with the medics and scouts who need that SG taken down? Aren't regular grenades essential to give the offense a chance? The way I imagine things going, the engineer could really become way overpowered.

 

[Forceflow]

Interesting read.

 

[Stigmata]

[edit: IRT sensai] Not if the maps are properly designed.

Also, the way I'm understanding it, it actually takes a decent amount of time to build turrets past level one. Getting extra engineers on the job will be pretty necessary, which limits the building of turrets beyond level one to maybe one or two upgrades at a time. And if Demos and Heavys can take out turrets, which is likely, then that only strengthen's the emphasis on teamwork.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Sounds excellent. I can only imagine how big TF2 is going to get.

 

[hool10]

My favorite class is the engineer and sniper. Sniper mostly though. I can just imagine sitting up on 2fort now and taking hs at people. Ping! There goes his helmet flying off!

 

[Epsi]

Although concing is out, the Scout can now double-jump. It sounds like rather than making the game fast-paced by using a bunch of fairly unintentional tricks, the Scout class will just be faster than the others.

I'm sure they've got the balance sorted. I guess the plan for taking out an SG is to roll in the demoman supported by a medic and solider. The demoman still has grenades, seeing as how his stated class purpose is to blow stuff up. The whole point is to get the rock-paper-scissors back in, so that every class will actually be useful again.

 

[Wang Tang]

Want. That. Game. O_O

 

[COALslaw]

Concs out? See ya later competitive edge.

 

[Stigmata]

I'm actually really amused at everyone assuming this game is no longer "competitive" or has "no challenge" because it's different from the original.

 

[COALslaw]

Go pop off a handheld conc in tfc and come talk to me, until then :|

 

[Stigmata]

Done and done. I'm pretty sure I'm going to prefer the double-jump.

 

[Cruor]

They have killed and nerfed my medic to kingdom come, I am sad ;(

Thig might be fun for a while but as for longevity, I think not.

 

[thefiznut]

As sad as I am to see conc jumping, grenades, and most likely bunny hopping being removed, I think it's time for the Team Fortress community to accept evolution of the genre. Lets face it, regardless of the vastly different game mechanics between say, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament series, and Counter-Strike, people always manage to exploit a game in such a way as to set the skilled players apart from the non-skilled. If you honestly have convinced yourself there will be no game mechanics allowing for competitive growth in Team Fortress 2, rest assured that you will be wrong. What Team Fortress 2 may lack in high-flying, bizarre physics quirks, it will make up for in other departments (i.e. further emphasis on class distinction and team-play).

And yes, I am a long-time Team Fortress veteran.

 

[jet jaguar]

It sounds like it's going to be a very, very different gameplay experience to TFC. I'm glad Fortress Forever is being developed also, just in case TF2 isn't to my liking.

 

[Stigmata]

As sad as I am to see conc jumping, grenades, and most likely bunny hopping being removed, I think it's time for the Team Fortress community to accept evolution of the genre. Lets face it, regardless of the vastly different game mechanics between say, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament series, and Counter-Strike, people always manage to exploit a game in such a way as to set the skilled players apart from the non-skilled. If you honestly have convinced yourself there will be no game mechanics allowing for competitive growth in Team Fortress 2, rest assured that you will be wrong. What Team Fortress 2 may lack in high-flying, bizarre physics quirks, it will make up for in other departments (i.e. further emphasis on class distinction and team-play).

And yes, I am a long-time Team Fortress veteran.

Thank you. One down, thousands to go

 

[sensai]

I'm actually really amused at everyone assuming this game is no longer "competitive" or has "no challenge" because it's different from the original.

You've totally missed the point. People are making these comments because a lot of the changes stated are things that gave key challenging and competitve elements within TFC.

Bunnyhopping set apart the different levels of play. The air juking set people apart on offense. The ability to control your concs were essential. The aim of a conced heavy separated the men from the boys. All these things plus tons more made the game challenging and competitve.

I am starting to feel that Valve has severely dumbed the game down. But that seems to be expected, since I think they are aiming at a much younger audience with this game because of the playability of this game on XBox360 and PS3.

The bigger problem I see is that Valve didn't enhance the different classes, but instead they dumbed down all the classes to match the level of the three least used classes in TFC: sniper, pyro, and spy. Instead of thinking of ways to make these classes awesome, it feels as if nerfing air movement, bunnyhopping, secondary grenades, etc. solved the playability of the other classes mainly used.

As another note, how do they plan on reducing the power of the teleporter. In TFC, the teleporter made the game unbalanced and practically destroyed the offense on many maps. Without bunnyhopping or concing to move offenses quickly in TF2, I am very curious as to how they are resolving the balance.

 

[thefiznut]

Thank you. One down, thousands to go

I'm with you. The new scout double jump sounds like one hell of a good time. I'm also excited about the pyro. I learned after playing the pyro for about a year how to use him effectively for both defense and offense (napalm-IC jump anyone?), but to hear that he is much, much more powerful is just plain exciting.

 

[thefiznut]

You've totally missed the point. People are making these comments because a lot of the changes stated are things that gave key challenging and competitve elements within TFC. I absolutely loved bunnyhopping, conc jumping, rocket jumping, ramp slides, and the ability to strafe circles in midair. Hell, conc maps were one of my favorite pastimes. However, I am willing to accept change, and try something new within the Team Fortress style of play.

Bunnyhopping set apart the different levels of play. The air juking set people apart on offense. The ability to control your concs were essential. The aim of a conced heavy separated the men from the boys. All these things plus tons more made the game challenging and competitve.

I am starting to feel that Valve has severely dumbed the game down. But that seems to be expected, since I think they are aiming at a much younger audience with this game because of the playability of this game on XBox360 and PS3.

The bigger problem I see is that Valve didn't enhance the different classes, but instead they dumbed down all the classes to match the level of the three least used classes in TFC: sniper, pyro, and spy. Instead of thinking of ways to make these classes awesome, it feels as if nerfing air movement, bunnyhopping, secondary grenades, etc. solved the playability of the other classes mainly used.

As another note, how do they plan on reducing the power of the teleporter. In TFC, the teleporter made the game unbalanced and practically destroyed the offense on many maps. Without bunnyhopping or concing to move offenses quickly in TF2, I am very curious as to how they are resolving the balance.

No, people are saying these things because their beloved TFC is not getting a mere graphical update. Team Fortress was never a game centered around odd physics and movement, those qualities were just inherent in the game engines each releases was built on, and even more so in TFC.

Did you even read the article? If you had, you would understand how Valve is addressing the concerns about class distinction. They have gone to great effort to make each class unique as well as having vital roles in the game. This is a problem that has plagued TF for years. It's little wonder why pyro, spy, and sniper were rarely used in clan play. In the interview posted just recently, they gave a clear and well thought out answer as to why some of these changes are taking place.

They also respond to the issue of "dumbing down" the game because of the differences between PC players and Xbox 360 players. They're aware that control schemes will affect playability, and for that reason it is highly unlikely they will allow PC players to interplay with console players. Custom content and Microsoft's policies are also a factor in this.

 

[thefiznut]

You've totally missed the point. People are making these comments because a lot of the changes stated are things that gave key challenging and competitve elements within TFC.

Bunnyhopping set apart the different levels of play. The air juking set people apart on offense. The ability to control your concs were essential. The aim of a conced heavy separated the men from the boys. All these things plus tons more made the game challenging and competitve.

I am starting to feel that Valve has severely dumbed the game down. But that seems to be expected, since I think they are aiming at a much younger audience with this game because of the playability of this game on XBox360 and PS3.

The bigger problem I see is that Valve didn't enhance the different classes, but instead they dumbed down all the classes to match the level of the three least used classes in TFC: sniper, pyro, and spy. Instead of thinking of ways to make these classes awesome, it feels as if nerfing air movement, bunnyhopping, secondary grenades, etc. solved the playability of the other classes mainly used.

As another note, how do they plan on reducing the power of the teleporter. In TFC, the teleporter made the game unbalanced and practically destroyed the offense on many maps. Without bunnyhopping or concing to move offenses quickly in TF2, I am very curious as to how they are resolving the balance.

No, people are saying these things because their beloved TFC is not getting a mere graphical update. Team Fortress was never a game centered around odd physics and movement, those qualities were just inherent in the game engines each releases was built on, and even more so in TFC. I absolutely loved bunnyhopping, conc jumping, ramp slides, the ability to strafe 360s in midair, etc. Hell, I can't tell you how much I will miss conc maps, as they were one of my favorite pastimes. But I am also willing to accept change, and not allow myself to expect another clone of TFC. We've seen enough of those already.

Did you even read the article? If you had, you would understand how Valve is addressing the concerns about class distinction. They have gone to great effort to make each class unique as well as having vital roles in the game. This is a problem that has plagued TF for years. It's little wonder why pyro, spy, and sniper were rarely used in clan play. In the interview posted just recently, they gave a clear and well thought out answer as to why some of these changes are taking place.

They also respond to the issue of "dumbing down" the game because of the differences between PC players and Xbox 360 players. They're aware that control schemes will affect playability, and for that reason it is highly unlikely they will allow PC players to interplay with console players. Custom content and Microsoft's policies are also a factor in this.

Edit: Crap, can we not delete posts anymore? Double posted on an edit.

 

[sensai]

No, people are saying these things because their beloved TFC is not getting a mere graphical update. Team Fortress was never a game centered around odd physics and movement, those qualities were just inherent in the game engines each releases was built on, and even more so in TFC.

The TFC community has always wanted more than a mere graphical update. We were hoping Valve would add to the skills of the game, not take them away.

Did you even read the article? If you had, you would understand how Valve is addressing the concerns about class distinction. They have gone to great effort to make each class unique as well as having vital roles in the game. This is a problem that has plagued TF for years. It's little wonder why pyro, spy, and sniper were rarely used in clan play. In the interview posted just recently, they gave a clear and well thought out answer as to why some of these changes are taking place.

I've read the article multiple times, and every time I read it, the changes sound much worse. TF has never had a problem with class distinction. Just because Valve dev state that its a problem doesn't mean the community has found it a problem. The classes already had vital roles, well most of them at least. The problem was that spies were too slow compared to their medic and scout counterparts, the game was too fast paced for snipers to be truly effective, and the weapons for pyros were just not strong enough to be useful on defense. Instead of improving these characters, Valve decided to nerf the rest of them to even out the playing field.

The funniest thing is the claims that Walker and others make as to the usefulness of classes like the scout. It is clear when reading the interview that they have no idea how competitive TFC utilizes the classes. I would venture to say they pull their information by going onto a server and playing with bots and random players. It has been clear that Valve has been out of touch with its own game ever since they decided to introduce the teleporter to TFC.

 

[thefiznut]

I've read the article multiple times, and every time I read it, the changes sound much worse. TF has never had a problem with class distinction. Just because Valve dev state that its a problem doesn't mean the community has found it a problem. The classes already had vital roles, well most of them at least. The problem was that spies were too slow compared to their medic and scout counterparts, the game was too fast paced for snipers to be truly effective, and the weapons for pyros were just not strong enough to be useful on defense. Instead of improving these characters, Valve decided to nerf the rest of them to even out the playing field.

You honestly think giving the spy more speed, and beefing up the pyro's weapons would have fixed their balance issues?

Seems to me the problem here is people are clinging to old ideas, rather than embracing new ones. Don't worry though, I am sure you will not be missed. There's always Fortress Forever, eh? I'll be playing both for my Team Fortress fix.

 

[COALslaw]

The funniest thing is the claims that Walker and others make as to the usefulness of classes like the scout. It is clear when reading the interview that they have no idea how competitive TFC utilizes the classes. I would venture to say they pull their information by going onto a server and playing with bots and random players. It has been clear that Valve has been out of touch with its own game ever since they decided to introduce the teleporter to TFC.

One of the more intelligent posts on here.

thefiznut: I've never come to know the phrase 'embracing new ideas' as a way of describing something abandoning proven, fun, and challenging gameplay dynamics. The simple fact about this crap is that it shouldn't bare the Team Fortressname, its gotten to the point where you can't even compare the two anymore.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

This game is going to fail.

IF there's any market for this spammy mid-90s deathmatch gameplay anymore you can all rape my ass.

 

[TheMastahC]

This is why I hate the internet. So many stupid people saying dumb things. The game won't be out for another 6 months, but it's already failed I guess to you people. "I can't use a more or less bug in the game to shoot myself across the map and capture the flag in 15 seconds, the game is ruined ."

 

[Stigmata]

I've never come to know the phrase 'embracing new ideas' as a way of describing something abandoning proven, fun, and challenging gameplay dynamics.

Sticking to tradition/proven concepts is one of the biggest banes of the video game industry. The reasons Valve are trying something new are a) the old gameplay design was poor (this is coming from the guy that designed TFC, mind you); and b) it will set the game apart from others, drawing more people's attention and potentially driving sales further than a mere graphical update would. It will be a sad day for the industry when all sequels become graphics updates, but Valve is taking a step in the direction that will keep video games alive.

The simple fact about this crap is that it shouldn't bare the Team Fortress name, its gotten to the point where you can't even compare the two anymore.

It's Valve's IP, not yours - they can do whatever they feel like with it. Furthermore, I'm going to liken this to the difference between HL2 and Black Mesa Source - what the hardcore TF community (which numbers in the thousands at best) wants is another BM: Source, and what Valve is doing in the interests of the gaming community in general is another HL2. They're taking all the stuff that made TFC good, chopping out the shit and the filler, making some shitty things good, and tightening the game as a whole.

Again, what you guys want is Fortress Forever. If there is one reason that TF2 is differing so much from TFC, it is because TFC is no longer relevant.

 

[sensai]

I've never stated this game is going to fail, but I am very concerned at how this game will play. I'm concerned because from the looks of it, Valve has taken out of the game more than they have put into it. Now I understand that Valve hasn't told us all the changes to TF they've made, but the ones they've made take away from the whole TF feel.

You say they've taken out all stuff that ruined the game and kept the good stuff, but I argue that they've taken away all the things that made TF unique and a great competitive game.

I've been playing TFC since 1999 and never has Valve truly supported the community. They've always been out of touch, even in the heyday of TFC before the reign of CS - back when TFC was a huge selling point and cash cow for Half-Life. I remember the one time TFC was a part of the CPL and how the community was still growing - but Valve never paid any attention to us. From the introduction to teleporters to the way they talk about how TFC plays today, it is clear that they've never even taken the suggestions of the TFC community to make the game even remotely better.

The TF community never wanted a graphically update version of TFC. Sure, its been tossed around, but we have FF for that and we recognize that. Hell, so many people was excited for the TF2: Brotherhood type of game. What we didn't want, and what many feel Valve is currently doing, is taking the game and stripping it down rather than enhancing it.

To me they've actually done opposite of distinguishing the different classes, they've actually homogenized them. A soldier should be fearful of a scout?! That just sounds crazy and wrong to me.

If there's one reason why TF2 is so different from TFC, its because Valve has not taken the time to discuss what made TFC so good to so many people.

 

[Stigmata]

I've never stated this game is going to fail, but I am very concerned at how this game will play. I'm concerned because from the looks of it, Valve has taken out of the game more than they have put into it. Now I understand that Valve hasn't told us all the changes to TF they've made, but the ones they've made take away from the whole TF feel.

You say they've taken out all stuff that ruined the game and kept the good stuff, but I argue that they've taken away all the things that made TF unique and a great competitive game.

All I've heard about what makes TFC "competitive" is what amounts to widespread abuse of a collection of game exploits. Now just think about this for a minute - You're saying TF2 won't be as good because they fixed exploits and have nothing in their place. What goes in place of exploits? More exploits. What doesn't get discovered until after weeks of play by millions of ravenous fans? New exploits. What can't be announced? Exploits that haven't been discovered. What won't be announced? Exploits that display the game's flaws to everyone, leading to critical panning.

I've been playing TFC since 1999 and never has Valve truly supported the community. They've always been out of touch, even in the heyday of TFC before the reign of CS - back when TFC was a huge selling point and cash cow for Half-Life. I remember the one time TFC was a part of the CPL and how the community was still growing - but Valve never paid any attention to us. From the introduction to teleporters to the way they talk about how TFC plays today, it is clear that they've never even taken the suggestions of the TFC community to make the game even remotely better.

I can kind of sympathize, or at the very least, empathize with you. But you have to admit that people who play TFC are not necessarily qualified (and in fact are rarely ever even close to being qualified) to make design changes and decisions for a videogame.

The TF community never wanted a graphically update version of TFC. Sure, its been tossed around, but we have FF for that and we recognize that. Hell, so many people was excited for the TF2: Brotherhood type of game. What we didn't want, and what many feel Valve is currently doing, is taking the game and stripping it down rather than enhancing it.

To me they've actually done opposite of distinguishing the different classes, they've actually homogenized them. A soldier should be fearful of a scout?! That just sounds crazy and wrong to me.

1) Being a hardcore TFC player, any judgements you make about the gameplay design are going to be heavily biased. Hence why a Soldier fearing a Scout seems "wrong" to you - you're biased and can't make a clear judgement on the situation.
2) There is no homogenizing of classes going on here. The interview talks about the exact opposite of that occurring. Like how the Medic and the Scout are almost identical in TFC (in terms of weapons, capabilities, roles, etc), but are now fundamentally different classes in TF2.

 

[jet jaguar]

Say what you want about TFC being old and bland, I can guarantee you TF2 won't have the 6-7 year staying power TFC had. The original gameplay was fun. The exploits were fun. Your ability to perfect said exploits was fun. With the exception of Counterstrike what multiplayer, team-based fps has had as long a run as TFC? Nothing comes close. To dismiess TFC's hardcore fanbase as being irrational is direspectful. TFC would still be going strong if it had been ported to the Source engine and given minor enhancements to take advantage of the new physics and graphics capabilities. Hopefully TF2 will be as fun and hopefully it'll resemble the original game more than not. Heavens knows they've taken more than enough time on this sequel.

 

[el Chi]

This looks like it'll be fabulous. Is there any word on whether there'll be bots?
I haven't played this in God-knows-how-long and it'd be nice to reacquaint myself before I get dry-raped on the 'net.

 

[ZeroG]

At the end of the day it's valve's game and they can do what they want with it. It's free with hl2:episode2 and you have no obligation to play. If you want the classic TFC gameplay go play FF, stop whining on a game which isnt even out yet. And, you never know, you might just like it.

I will be enjoying it, not just for the team fortress factor, but for a free multiplayer game that thousands of people will be playing.
Also, before you say that 'thousands of people wont be playing this' that's your opinion, not fact.

 

[Stigmata]

This is going nowhere.

To all the hardcore TFC vets, I'm sure Valve just feels awful about making a game that is more fun to play, rather than TFC 1.03.

Also, jet jaguar, I wouldn't say TFC has the "staying power" of 6-7 years. Just because a few people still play it years after release does not mean that it has staying power, it just means a few people still play it. Starcraft has staying power - hundreds of thousands of people still play it every day. TFC does NOT have staying power - mere hundreds of people still play it every day.

 

[riles]

I'm actually very comfortable with the change. I am very much looking forward to the idea of TF2. Change is good. People can go play TFC or FF if they are not satisfied with the outcome of the game.

 

[stanr]

I'll start by saying that I've been playing TFC since its release, and am an avid fan of the game. I never liked bunnyhopping and the rampant grenade-assisted flying in TFC--that defeated the purpose of map design for too many maps. So thank you Walker and Brown for removing that.

I'll venture to say that the whole idea of dumbing down (or as they say, simplifying/focusing) player skills might really hinder the gameplay in TF2.

See, the fun in the TF gameplay comes not only from having specialized skills, but in having choice and versatility within the capabilities of your class. The versatility derived from things like differences in secondary grenades, the ability to remove a sentry gun by pretty much any class (with different techniques), and the various creative weapons (such as the Spy's stun gun, the Scout's caltrops and the Medic's infection kit) that didn't just do ranged damage. If the fists, fire axe, bone saw and a broken bottle have the same effect w/different animations, are they really interesting to use in different classes?

Instead, what we have in TF2 is actually a flattening of class capabilities. It seems that I cannot *choose* to be a combat medic in the middle of a game, if the weapons aren't good enough or if I will likely have more success by healing people. It seems like I cannot go engy "EMP herd hunting," i.e. trying to throw an EMP grenade in as big a crowd of enemies as I can muster. It seems that Pyro cannot harass people with his fire grenades anymore, and I really liked being an annoying pest.

Although I agree that grenades homogenize classes, I must say that they were a lot of fun to use. The timing mechanism, and the wall bouncing made sure that this weapon took skill (and some luck) to work. Remove the grenades -- and you're removing yet another dimension of choice. The secondary grenades were especially fun, but I guess I already ranted a bit about them.

I guess I'm arguing for having more choice within the boundaries of a particular class, and I do mean more choice in the variety of weapon effects and things to do. From the description at GameInformer, it seems that there will be a primary weapon/technique for each class that most people will stick to (because there's no real differentiating reason to use any other weapon), and it will become a game of 6 guns, one knife, one sentry and two fast legs.

 

[Stigmata]

The problem with having all the choice within each class is that each class ends up feeling too similar. The fundamental reason for having class-based gameplay is to get the player to take a role in the game that will augment his team, and manage a set of advantages and hindrances that come with that class. Before, it was "Okay, I'm a medic - I can kill people, plus I can do that conc grenade jump, and I guess I can heal people too." Now, it's "I'm a medic, I'm here to heal my teammates."

And grenades, outside of clan play, are nothing more than a spam weapon. Most players in any game throw grenades at the first sign of combat, with nothing more than the hope that it'll kill someone because that would be "cool". The fact that it takes so much luck to actually use grenades effectively is a testament to how poorly they integrate themselves into a game based around skill, accuracy, and teamwork.

Furthermore, the fact that you can "choose" to be a combat medic in TFC shows that TFC, not TF2, is the game in question that has homogenized classes. TF2 is making each class MORE unique, MORE defined, by making combat with each class appropriately difficult or easy, and giving each class distinct abilities. Think of it like this - there's a huge sentry gun blocking an entrance to the enemy base. If all the classes can remove sentry guns, there's no incentive for one to be a class which is the "best" at taking them down. But if only a couple classes are really able to take down sentries, then you need to make a choice - continue with your current class, unable to take down sentries, but be better-prepared for the combat afterwards? Or choose the class that can destroy the sentry, allowing for your team to get through, but making combat for you that much more difficult?