Terri Schiavo dead.

[Locust]

"Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman who spent 15 years connected to a feeding tube in an epic legal and medical battle that went all the way to the White House and Congress, died Thursday, 13 days after the tube was removed. She was 41." Here's the link

 

[AntiAnto]

Yeah, I saw that on the news. I don't know if I should be relieved or sad because we never knew what she would have wanted :| It'll bring on the whole debat about ending the life of someone inconscious.

 

[Kangy]

Well, at least she's not suffering any more, and her body was finally allowed to die along with her mind. I'll probably go look at some of the "KEEP HER ALIVE" blogs that seem to have grown with the fiasco.

 

[Bodacious]

She died the same way a lot of concentration camp victims did. Sad.

 

[baxter]

She died the same way a lot of concentration camp victims did. Sad.

I'm not pro life or anti, but come on this is a bit harsh.

Agreed it is sad though.

 

[Bodacious]

I'm not pro life or anti, but come on this is a bit harsh.

Agreed it is sad though.

The turth hurts sometimes. Am I wrong?

 

[azz0r]

She died the same way a lot of concentration camp victims did. Sad.

Except she was a vegetable who wouldnt know the diffrence between life, death, hunger or pain.

 

[Venmoch]

She died the same way a lot of concentration camp victims did. Sad.

Uh, right. Except this is completely different. Thats like saying Milk is the same as Cream because its made the same.

She starved to death yes. But thats where the similarity ends. She wasn't held behind bars and denied food because of her race. Also she was being fed by a tube which usually means that her stomach is incapable of digesting anything anyway.

 

[Apos]

Concentration camp victims starved to death. She dehydrated. And they were conscious, functional human beings murdered by deliberate policies. Schiavo was taken off medical treatments that prolonged her life for no purpose against her wishes.

 

[AntiAnto]

Schiavo was taken off medical treatments that prolonged her life for no purpose against her wishes.

What did have no purpose? The medical treatments that prolonged her life or the take off of the medical treatments?

 

[Bodacious]

And they were conscious, functional human beings

Schivo was conscious (as opposed to unconscious). She was functionial, as well. She ate, she slept, she used the bathroom, and I am willing to be she still had her period.

Also she was being fed by a tube which usually means that her stomach is incapable of digesting anything anyway.

Read up on a gastric feeding tube. It goes straight to the stomach and delivers food. Her stomach was perfectly capable of digesting food. The problem was she could not swallow.

Except she was a vegetable who wouldnt know the diffrence between life, death, hunger or pain.

That doesn't negate that she starved to death.

 

[azz0r]

That doesn't negate that she starved to death.

She wasnt alive for 15 years, all they killed was her body.

Which deserved death.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

At least, at the end of all this, it brings up the issue of all of us getting living wills.

 

[Bodacious]

She wasnt alive for 15 years, all they killed was her body.

Which deserved death.

Define alive.

 

[Locust]

they might as will have just put a bullet in her head; to do this would have been much more humane than letting her starve to death.

 

[AntiAnto]

Define alive.

Translated from the french dictionnary of Larousse 1998:

Animated by life

hmmmm...

From my part, I would say someone (talking about humans) who has a level of conscious enough to know what she is and what she can do.

 

[No Limit]

Schivo was conscious (as opposed to unconscious). She was functionial, as well. She ate, she slept, she used the bathroom, and I am willing to be she still had her period.



Read up on a gastric feeding tube. It goes straight to the stomach and delivers food. Her stomach was perfectly capable of digesting food. The problem was she could not swallow.



That doesn't negate that she starved to death.

I'm sorry but you are completely lost on what brain dead means. I can go in to a bunch medical details but I don't have much time, I'll just repost what I posted in another thread:

Let me ask you Calanen, are you a neurologist? Do you now better than the 7 out of 8 doctors that examined her? Your affidavits are taken from people that are simply not credibile in any way; the courts found this, not anyone else. This doctor talks about the celebral cortex needed to function, he fails to explain why she would have fucntion when the celebral cortex doesn't exist (noone has disputed this). I might also remind you the judge is a Republican and was assigned to this randomly. There have also been I believe 19 other judges that came to the same conclusions. What you are doing is sticking your nose where it doesn't belong; this is a family matter that is being used as a political tool by your fellow conservatives. There are currently about 30,000 cases like this, you guys haven't mentioned a single other one; this is an outrage. Here are some real medical facts:

http://atheism.about.com/od/terrischiavonews/a/facts.htm

A CT scan taken in 1996 revealed profound abnormalities. An EEG performed reveals that there is no electrical activity. In 2002, a CAT scan demonstrated massive atrophy. In place of normal brain tissue, almost all that is left are connective tissues and spinal fluid. Aside from a brain stem that keeps some autonomic functions going, she simply doesn’t have a brain.

This is not a condition for which there is any medicine or any therapy. When your brain is gone, it’s gone for good. Some describe Terri Schiavo as “brain damaged,” but this is as irresponsible as it is inaccurate. It’s done for the same reason that some refer to her as "Ms." Schiavo instead of the more correct "Mrs." Schiavo: to mislead. Terri Schiavo is “brain damaged” in the same way that a quadruple amputee has “arm damage.”

All of the doctors hired by Michael Schiavo and all independent doctors hired by the courts have agreed: Terri Schiavo is in a Persistent Vegetative State. No other conclusion is possible given the absence of a cerebral cortex. Doctors hired by Terri’s parents have disputed this diagnosis, but not in a substantive way that the courts have been able to take seriously. These doctors do not explain why the tests done so far are wrong (i.e., that she really does have a cerebral cortex) or, if the tests are correct, how a person can have consciousness and self-awareness in the absence of a cerebral cortex.

A persistent vegetative state means that a person’s brain is so severely damaged that even though they may exhibit wakefulness, they are incapable of experiencing awareness or reacting in a consistent manner to external stimuli. Terri Schiavo’s behavior may mimic normal consciousness and the heavily edited tapes released by Terri’s parents serve to perpetuate that impression, but tests performed by qualified physicians have demonstrated that there is simply nothing left there.

Here is a picture of the brain with a good explaination:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/20/regarding-the-cat-scan-of-terri-schiavos-brain/

What completely pisses me off is the fact her parents and these so called "pro-life" supporters are trying to completely destroy the image of her husband again for their own political gain. Her husband has treated her extremely well and is in there everyday taking care of her, in 15 years she hasn't had a single bed sore. There are rumors he put her in this condition, that he just wants money (false considering people offered him 10 million to keep her alive, he refused), and that he abused her (again false as he allowed an autopsy). This is a good guy and I would say the same about the parents if they weren't out to destroy him. This case is an outrage and I am ashamed of anyone that sticks their nose in to this.

It was meant to be a reply to Calanen but it will apply here.

Now let me ask you this, if you were in this position where you couldn't think, you didn't know anything that was going on around you and you were pretty much a vegitible with no chance of recovery (this is a confimed medical fact) would you want to remain here on earth like she did for 15 YEARS or would you want to be put to rest and go up to heaven? I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life (another 40 years or so in her case) hooked up to a tube with no ability to think, react, or be aware of anything around me.

 

[gcomeau]

Schivo was conscious (as opposed to unconscious).

Only if your definition of conscious is rather loose.

She was functionial, as well. She ate,

No, she didn't. She had food force-fed to her through a tube precisely because she was incapable of eating.

she slept, she used the bathroom

Is that so? Would you care to explain what you mean by "used the bathroom"?

Read up on a gastric feeding tube. It goes straight to the stomach and delivers food. Her stomach was perfectly capable of digesting food. The problem was she could not swallow.

No kidding... because swallowing requires a conscious effort which would require she be.. you know... conscious. Digestion on the other hand is autonomic. I suggest you do a little reading yourself.

 

[gh0st]

Schiavo was taken off medical treatments that prolonged her life for no purpose against her wishes.

If you believe her animal husband, then yes, she did want to die.

 

[Absinthe]

Bodacious, you're just being ridiculous.

The way Terri Shiavo died and the way people were executed in the concentration camps were under entirely different circumstances, most importantly;

1) Terri was not consciously aware of her own death.
2) Terri, as concluded by nearly every court, wanted to die.
3) The deaths of those in concentration camps were the result of deliberate ideology-fueled hatred.

Honestly, I think the only reason you make such a comparison is because you want to get a rise out of people.

 

[Absinthe]

If you believe her animal husband, then yes, she did want to die.

Animal husband, eh? And what exactly do you base that slanderous comment off of?

For the record, it wasn't just the husband that attested to that, and nearly every court sided with it.

 

[gh0st]

Animal husband, eh? And what exactly do you base that slanderous comment off of?

For the record, it wasn't just the husband that attested to that, and nearly every court sided with it.

Yeah. The 'courts' decide, against the will of the peoples representatives and the president. This further highlights the fact that even local judges hold far too much power int his country.

I agree with these people

"Through much of that time, he has been vilified — on talk shows and the Internet, and in protests in front of his own home — as an abuser, an adulterer, a murderer."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7287950/

He is an abuser, he hasnt taken care of his wife whom he indicated prior to wanting to murder her that he intended to take care of her. He's an adulterer who cheated upon his wife. And he's a murderer for killing her, and for what? Because she "said" so? Thats a crock of shit and you know it.

 

[Direwolf]

Thats idiotic. We're all bigger murderers than he is by failing to give all of our money to charity.
You have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Absinthe]

IMO, the "people" are too busy getting blind-sided by their irrational rage to actually know the details of the case. As for going against the will of the President: fine with me. I prefer living in a society where my personal issues aren't dictated down to the details.

Abuser: I think that ending her life was the best thing he could do in her interests.
Adulterer: His wife went into PVS. People move on, gh0st.
Murderer: Since when is the refusal of medical support classified as murder?

 

[gh0st]

IMO, the "people" are too busy getting blind-sided by their irrational rage to actually know the details of the case.

Abuser: I think that ending her life was the best thing he could do in her interests.
Adulterer: His wife went into PVS. People move on, gh0st.
Murderer: Since when is the refusal of medical support classified as murder?

How could they not know the details of the case? I'm constantly getting "blind-sided" by that shit everyday on the communist news network, and so are pretty much everybody else. Unless you are purposely ignoring it, you cannot possibly be unawares of whats going on.

Abuser: I disagree.
Adultuer: That doesnt give him, who felt it would be appropriate to get into a relationship during the time he was married with her, the right to kill her. It should be her familys responsibility.
Murder: She didnt refuse it. Her family didnt. He did. Why? He had a "promise" to keep.

Honestly, I get sick of people putting so little value into peoples lives. You're the kind of person who would want to kill Helen Keller (yes, even though she's a communist, I'm using an example here), because her life wasnt "worth living". Oh she was blind deaf and dumb, her life must not be worth anything. Would you shoot a two legged dog because you cant play frisbee with it? No. Life has more value than that, which is IMPOSSIBLE to get through to you people.

To put into context what an asshole Michael Schiavo is, he wont even let her brother into the hospital room to watch her die, or see her funeral. Hes a ****ing asshole.

 

[azz0r]

Define alive.

Put it this way.

Dogs being thrown against the floor head first 5 times in a row showed more responce to dying than Schiavo did starving to death.

 

[Absinthe]

How could they not know the details of the case? I'm constantly getting "blind-sided" by that shit everyday on the communist news network, and so are pretty much everybody else. Unless you are purposely ignoring it, you cannot possibly be unawares of whats going on.

The most I've seen CNN do most of the time is show protestors and a bunch of other crazies. In fact, they spend more time focusing on the politics surrounding the case rather than the case itself. Most people don't know that others aside from Michael Schiavo attested that she wanted to die. Most people don't know that the videos nearly every news network have shown are nothing but carefully selected footage. Most people aren't even familiar with what PVS is. These people see a blinking smiling face on their TV sets and say "Ha! She must be consciously aware!".

Abuser: I disagree.

What would keeping her alive have accomplished? It would have prolonged her "life" until the cows come home and it would have disrespected her wishes.

Adultuer: That doesnt give him, who felt it would be appropriate to get into a relationship during the time he was married with her, the right to kill her. It should be her familys responsibility.

He was the legally appointed guardian to her. And since he's her husband, he very much classifies as family.

Murder: She didnt refuse it. Her family didnt. He did. Why? He had a "promise" to keep.

Every court has come to the same conclusion: She wanted to die.

Honestly, I get sick of people putting so little value into peoples lives. You're the kind of person who would want to kill Helen Keller (yes, even though she's a communist, I'm using an example here), because her life wasnt "worth living". Oh she was blind deaf and dumb, her life must not be worth anything. Would you shoot a two legged dog because you cant play frisbee with it? No. Life has more value than that, which is IMPOSSIBLE to get through to you people.

There was no life in Terri Schiavo. The only thing that remained of her was her body, and that should have passed away a long time ago. There's a difference between somebody who is mentally handicapped and somebody that has zero higher brain functions.
You likening this to the execution of mere cripples is straw-man tactics.

 

[jimbo118]

well according to bbc news a silent majority in the us supported her death ghost,although i dont think its anyone elses business but the families and her husbands

 

[Kebean PFC]

I find it hard to believe that people still protest her death. Technically she was already dead, and this is where your private/religious veiws come into play. It all lies on what you believe happens after death.

 

[Direwolf]

She wasn't crippled. She wasn't in a coma. She wasn't partially brain-damaged. She wasn't anything we'd ever classify as a person.
When someone's entire cortex is gone, they've lost absolutely every cognitive function that made them a person. Maybe the husband is an ass. Maybe the brother is one too. And maybe her parents are insane.
Either way, Terry Schiavo wasn't around for her death, and neither would she have been around for the rest of her life if they prolonged it.

 

[Zeus]

they might as will have just put a bullet in her head; to do this would have been much more humane than letting her starve to death.

agreed

 

[T.H.C.138]

anyone see the latest south park? "some people think we played God by taking the tube out...but wasn't it playing God to put in the tube in the first place?"

I agree that it should have been between the family only..Euthanasia is a very hard decision to make..for an pet or a person..

but would you want your "soul" to be trapped in your body,which is as functional as a turnip, for possibly decades? or suffer for years from a incurable disease because someone won't let you die? isn't that a cruel form of torture?

the family is still very attached to the "shell"...but thats ALL that is left! Terri has been "dead" for a long time,and I for one am glad she is finally at rest

i have had many pets "put to sleep" and it is hard..but not as hard as watching the pain they were in..I had an Aunt, who was very old and sick and she wanted them to pull the plug..she was tired of being a zombie from the drugs for her pain,etc..she once said she was tired of the lingering on past her time..

but every case is different I suppose...just my $0.02


EDIT:I agree they should have given her body an injection as opposed to what they did..something quick...

 

[Murray_H]

"some people think we played God by taking the tube out...but wasn't it playing God to put in the tube in the first place?"

I spent about 5 minutes trying to get that thought into words. My brain is thankful for Mr. Stone and Mr. Parker!

 

[AntiAnto]

I spent about 5 minutes trying to get that thought into words. My brain is thankful for Mr. Stone and Mr. Parker!

Haha me too. After a first reading, I thought he was talking about the umbilical cord... then I realized.

 

[Eg.]

i am a right wing nut. but even i agree that she should have been killed, yet not by starvation. it would have been kinder if they o'd her on morphine, but oh the laws.

 

[No Limit]

If you believe her animal husband, then yes, she did want to die.

Animal husband? when will you stop making these idiotic claims. Show me one example of him being an animal? He took care of her so good in 15 years she didn't have a bed sore, he refused to accept 10 million to hand over the rights of terri to her parents because he has strong convictions of what the right thing for her is, he let her parents in for regular daily visits when the courts said they can't visit her at the same time and after her parents spread a assasination camp against his character, for the last 13 days he has been constently in the hospital, and he agreed to an autopsy when she died. Your characterization of a suffering man is outrageous and without merrit, you couldn't imagine the kind of pain he is going through.

 

[No Limit]

i am a right wing nut. but even i agree that she should have been killed, yet not by starvation. it would have been kinder if they o'd her on morphine, but oh the laws.

Yeah, it is sad that the law doesn't allow this (thanks to the same people advocating for her life). But again, you have to understand, the part of her brain that feels thirst, hunger, or pain is completely gone; replaced by spinal fluid so she did not suffer during this time. From what people that were around her said she was extremely calm.

 

[No Limit]

Yeah. The 'courts' decide, against the will of the peoples representatives and the president. This further highlights the fact that even local judges hold far too much power int his country.

Yeah, let the President have total power over every aspect of our lives. Luckily 70% of Americans, according to the Time poll (I believe it is the time poll) disagree with your dumb reasoning.

 

[Calanen]

Don't know why No Limit's freaking out on me, I said kill her. I was only making the point that whether she felt pain or not was open to debate, and I posted a nuerologists evidence to this effect. I was not saying it was the only evidence or that I am a nuerologist. Nor did I claim to be, or give a medical opinion. I cited someone elses.

My only concern was that it seemed a cruel way to kill someone. I also said No Limit, that were I the judge, I would have ruled to remove the tube.

So read all my posts next time.......not just one.

 

[Locust]

No one here knows what was going on in Terri's head. For all we know she was solving our energy problems with mathematical statistics while caculating the average velocity of mars; either that or she was just a brain dead veggie. Either way we have no idea what is going on inside a persons mind, even if we think they are completly brain dead. For all we know there is a higher function of our intelect besides the brain that can only be tapped into when a person is in a vegetated state.