The Amazing Atheist - YouTube debater about religion and other stuff

I don't even understand why we discuss this matter. Past and present have shown us that religious allegiances are personal and shouldn't be debated... it's an endless pit. Individuals will always tend to stick to their beliefs whether it's based on reason or not.

Hell, I'd love to believe in something irrational like Giant Tiger God if it'd give my life an ultimate purpose.
 
nice video :)

If you are born in an isolated society where there is no, and has never been any religious belief, you will grow up never thinking of a "God". I am assuming this is a hypothetical modern day educated society here. (If there was no education, they would believe some supernatural being created the rain.)

You are born without any religious belief. So that means your are completely neutral. You don't believe in a God and you don't believe that there is no God. Agnostic is basically "I'm not sure" So it would be the most fitting category. But your society knows nothing about religion. So technically you wouldn't be anything, including agnostic.

So he is wrong, you are not born atheist, but he is right that you are not born believe in a God.
 
He made the video in a garage. I don't care if he is an awesome debater (which didnt seem like it was the case), he made the video in a garage.

I watched about 2 minutes of it and stopped.
 
I think people replace the unknown with God and it gives them a sense of purpose. That is what has been happening for thousands of years......Some people cant handle the rationale that we just might be all alone, no one watching us, and that scares them. Some people just need to believe in something to get them by. Thats where religion and spirituality differ. You might hear alot of people say they are spiritual but not religious.

A few hundred years ago we were the center of the universe, and people were killed for thinking otherwise...every day science disproves bs thinking hundreds of years ago
 
I'm not going to question my religion over a fat, hairy bloke in his basement
 
Dalamari said:
I'm not going to question my religion over a fat, hairy bloke in his basement
Click to expand...

You shouldn't question because some fat kid tells you to, you should question it for your own benefit, and if you still hold faith after, then good for you. Dont believe in something just to believe in it like a robot....
 
I'm talking about

Oh...if your religious, your un-developed brain might get offended by the logic and rationality of the video. If you watch it you might even give up your faith.
Click to expand...
 
I do not think that it is necessarily the case that science and religion are natural opposites. In fact, I think that there is a very close connection between the two. Further, I think that science without religion is lame and, conversely, that religion without science is blind. Both are important and should work hand-in-hand.
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My views exactly Einstein. You're a mathematical genius!
 
"At any rate, I am convinced that He [God] does not play dice."

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the unlimitable superior who reveals Himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

Albert Einstein
Click to expand...

That's what I think.

Einstein was not religious, but believed in a God.
 
Exactly. But the religious would like to twist his words and manipulate them by quoting out of context into making him sound religious.
 
You are born without any religious belief. So that means your are completely neutral. You don't believe in a God and you don't believe that there is no God. Agnostic is basically "I'm not sure" So it would be the most fitting category. But your society knows nothing about religion. So technically you wouldn't be anything, including agnostic.

So he is wrong, you are not born atheist, but he is right that you are not born believe in a God.
Click to expand...
Being athiest means you lack the belief in god. If you lack the belief you are athiest.
If you are agnostic you are not sure if there is a good or if there isn't.

You are born athiest because when your born, you lack the belief in a god(s).

Even if you have never thought about "God" in your life, you are an athiest because you lack the belief.
 
Atheism is not the lack of belief, it's the refusal or denial of the existence of God. Therefore, you aren't born atheist, Christian, Hindu or whatever, because you don't have the mental conditions to accept or deny those beliefs.

Basically, you are born ignorant.
 
Solaris said:
Exactly. But the religious would like to twist his words and manipulate them by quoting out of context into making him sound religious.
Click to expand...

Does anyone else think that Solaris sounds like an atheist fanatic?
Ummm, he states that religion and science were both important in that quote. Considering how much he spent devoting his life to and in science, and making a statement like that, doesn't that show how important religion is to him?
 
Uriel said:
Does anyone else think that Solaris sounds like an atheist fanatic?
Ummm, he states that religion and science were both important in that quote. Considering how much he spent devoting his life to and in science, and making a statement like that, doesn't that show how important religion is to him?
Click to expand...

Einstein did not reverence his God, he only believed in it. That doesn't make him religious.
 
AntiAnto said:
Atheism is not the lack of belief, it's the refusal or denial of the existence of God. Therefore, you aren't born atheist, Christian, Hindu or whatever, because you don't have the mental conditions to accept or deny those beliefs.

Basically, you are born ignorant.
Click to expand...

Who is to say that believing in god is not ignorant.

We can all agree that we are all ignorant in a sense that we know that we are here, earth in 1 planet thats part of a solar system which is part of a star, which is part of billions of other stars and galaxies. Beyond that, we dont know anything.
 
AntiAnto said:
Atheism is not the lack of belief, it's the refusal or denial of the existence of God.
Click to expand...

No, that is not accurate.

Atheism is, by definition, not characterized by "refusal or denial". It is a widely applicable term that encompasses all rational forms of non-belief, including some as minor as agnosticism. The vast majority of atheist standpoints acknowledge that a god is remotely possible, with the important caveat that nuclear time-travelling death rabbits are equally "possible."

You are refering only to "strong" atheism, which is the rarest sort.
 
AntiAnto said:
Einstein did not reverence his God, he only believed in it. That doesn't make him religious.
Click to expand...

Meh, that depends on how you define "religious"

1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
2. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.

He fits the #2 description, partially 1, and not 3.

Edit - I see everyone is getting in the dictionary debate now.

Lets all settle this with a game of BF2.
 
To approach this from another angle...
Isn't it rather hypocritical of you, Solaris, to take such an accusory tone with people for no other reason than that they have a level of belief in a higher power, after calling me a racist for stating that Islam is an evil, barbaric, totalitarian cult?
Is it OK to bash Christians but not Muslims?

Also, while their religious beliefs are illogical, your political beliefs are both illogical and harmful. Moreso, you continue to cling to those beliefs despite abundant and irrefutable evidence exposing them as insane. You're a bit of a religious fanatic yourself - but your religion is communism.
 
Tyguy said:
Who is to say that believing in god is not ignorant.

We can all agree that we are all ignorant in a sense that we know that we are here, earth in 1 planet thats part of a solar system which is part of a star, which is part of billions of other stars and galaxies. Beyond that, we dont know anything.
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Exactly. But, I didn't say we evolve to ultimate knowledge. Only that we are born with no religious allegiances whatsoever, whether it later become a lack of belief, or a refusal in the existence of a God or in the belief of one, that's it. At birth, we are animal.
 
yay, another religion thread!


Richard Dawkins is much better than this guy.
[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6169720917221820689&q=richard+dawkins[/GVIDEO]


As for "let people beleive what they want to beleive", that is complete bullshit. We should not let people beleive in insane, illogical and potentially damaging things. It is the fault of the religious moderates that the religious extremists continue to exist. Moderates say that you should respect all people's beleifs and not question or critisize them in any way. But the fact of the matter is, if we can't critisize complete idiocy, it will thrive. It is the modern blanket of moderate religion that allows david koreshes and osama bin ladens and pat robertsons to thrive, gain followers, and do stupid things. We must actively critisize all religion and put it to the test. We should confront irrational and damaging beleifs and state the truth publicly and openly.
 


"SOLARIS KNIGHT and THE EEVUL CHRISTJUNS"

Starring: Solaris
Director: Solaris
Production: Solaris
Scriptwright: Solaris

"YOUR CORE BELIEF IS COMPLETE NONSENSE"

Coming soon to porn video vendors near you!​


Comes with exclusive preview of "SOLARIS KNIGHT on HOLY ATHEISM CRUSADE", "SOLARIS KNIGHT DEATHMATCHES BENEDICT II" and "KINDERGARTEN COMMUNISM WITH SOLARIS KNIGHT"*

* - gulags not included.

On a more serious note, it's funny how religion while inherently a peaceful thing can heat things up so much, with blinded zealots raging on both sides.

Oh, and I'm a Liberal Christian for those needing to know.
 
Since when is religion a peaceful thing? Common misconception.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:


"SOLARIS KNIGHT and THE EEVUL CHRISTJUNS"

Starring: Solaris
Director: Solaris
Production: Solaris
Scriptwright: Solaris

"YOUR CORE BELIEF IS COMPLETE NONSENSE"

Coming soon to porn video vendors near you!​


Comes with exclusive preview of "SOLARIS KNIGHT on HOLY ATHEISM CRUSADE", "SOLARIS KNIGHT DEATHMATCHES BENEDICT II" and "KINDERGARTEN COMMUNISM WITH SOLARIS KNIGHT"*

* - gulags not included.

On a more serious note, it's funny how religion while inherently a peaceful thing can heat things up so much, with blinded zealots raging on both sides.

Oh, and I'm a Liberal Christian for those needing to know.
Click to expand...

Genius :D

-Angry Lawyer
 
I've found that for most people religion, what they believe or the extent to which they believe it is a choice that they have conciously made, and some guy trying to disprove the existence of God, or any God with science or whatever won't change their beliefs. Sure, if you're brought up in a Christian home you might go to church with your parents but there comes a time when we all make a concious decision. I went to church quite often when I was young, but after thinking about God and all that I'd learnt, I decided Christianity wasn't for me. You're told all this stuff, about Jesus, the Bible etc, and then you make up your own mind. I don't ever hold religion against people, just their actions, but I equally don't like people trying to forcibly convert others, and trying to change what they believe.
 
"I've seen millions (okay, hundreds) of people, argumenting over why it's just flat wrong/stupid/idiotic/whatever to be a christian and NONE of them has ever convinced me to stop being one, neither have this guy."

Well whose failing is that really...

"I did have this period of grief over doubting that God existed, however that was not due to those people and I'm over that period since long ago."

...when the very act of merely doubting gives you emotional pain in the form of grief?
See, there is a difference between disregarding a poor argument and being unreponsive (or reacting negatively) to any form of discussion.
If you feel pain when you discuss, then it's surely easier to disregard.
How can we have a rational discussion under a scenario where your emotional balance outweighs all forms of evidence?
If someone's not being rational, then that's a good reason to ignore them. Especially if they take pride in not questioning their beliefs.

"At best people like this guy has made me considering what he said, made me think about it. However this guy didn't make me think at all. And he gets no points from being an asshole either."

If you're on youtube, you're probably an asshole by default, regardless of beliefs.
But then, why should atheists be gentle to you?
Do you respect the beliefs of alchemists and psychic surgeons?
When Clarky, in this thread, parrots new-age claptrap off of awful pap like "What the bleep do we know?" and random websites, do we really have condescend to him with a pat on the head and a "We believe you Clarky"?
To the point: if I ran up to you saying that there would be a laser rabbit attack in two weeks time, would you scramble to build a bomb shelter or would you, justifiably, call me stupid?
You have equal evidence of god as I have of the upcoming Rabbit Holocaust, and I can assure you that I am as deeply, emotionally afraid of the Rabbit Holocaust as you are of hell.
So, do you listen to me? Do you build the bomb shelter?
I'm guessing no, you won't.
With exactly equal evidence, you've come to two wildly different conclusions. By any standard, that doesn't make sense.
That's the same as having two identical equations and coming up with different answers for each, based on preference.

I like 3[2(4)+2] more than 5(6), so I'll say it is worth a hundred, while the other is a mere thirty.
3[2(4)+2] in not equal to 100, no matter how much I or you wish it were. 3[2(4)+2] and 5(6) are different ways of expressing the exact same thing: the number thirty.

"I feel sorry for many Americans. I mean, sure they may have their reasons not to be christians, but I think that the biggest reason for them not wanting to be one in the first place was not due to their later reasoning, but because schools treat them like shit if they say they don't believe in it and thus alienate them even more from being it, then they start comming up with whatever reasons they may have."

You're reducing atheists to mere sophists, so no wonder you have little respect. I regret anyone who has to find reasons for their belief after the fact, but at least the have reasons.

"I have my reasons to belive in God and Jesus and people can try contradicting whatever reasons they may be, so instead of having to argue endlessly about that, I'm not going to bring those reasons forward."

We can't contradict you if you don't present anything.
So let's look at the one point you did make:

"Why do you care what I belive?"

First let's check your points.

"I can live a life just like any other atheist in this world even if I am a christian. I can eat my food, I can do whatever is of my interests, I can be with my atheist friends, even though I am a christian."

A) You can eat and so can atheists.
B) You can do whatever is of your interests and so can atheists.
C) You can have non-christian friends and so can athesits.
Given A, B and C:
D) You can live life exactly the same as an atheist (except for one difference, which we'll get to in a second).

Let's check that logic.
Yes, atheists are capable of eating food. That's one point there.
And although it is theorhetically possible for you to be friends with non-christians, aren't you being a tremendous asshole by not trying as hard as humanly possible to convert them?
They'll go to hell unless you stop them! Doesn't that bother you?
But I'll let that pass because it is still sadly possible to be an uncaring and selfish friend.

However, point B hits a snag: you very often can't do whatever is of your interests if you aren't an average christian and/or other religion.
Example: you cannot marry if you are gay in most countries (many still prohibit sodomy).
Example: you cannot legally smoke pot in most countries, despite it being less harmful than alcohol.
Example: you personally noted, you probably can't go to a school in the US without being harassed in some way.
Example: you can't obtain tax-free property for your clubhouse.
Example: you probably can't see a tit unless you have cable.
Example: you can't say a magic voice caused you to kill hundreds/thousands of people, predict that ghosts will blow up the world, claim that dinosaurs are a the product of a conspiracy, etc. and still get a large amount of respect.
etc.

Now, for a christian, you (assumedly) don't want to see tits, smoke the weed (drug use is a form of idolatry, you know, unless it's wine or something. The exact rules are oddly hazy) while, at the same time, your interest in tax-free churches and heterosexual marriage are always catered to.
It would seem that you're living the high life compared to large amounts of people, just because of that one difference:

"The difference? I belive that God sent his son to die for our sins. How does that affect what I do in real life except beliveing that this has happened? Absolutely nothing."

I disagree.
How does this affect what you do in real life? Well, that's simple: at its most basic level, it stops you (and all other christians) from "sinning" even if there is no logical reason not to "sin". If you're gay, you stay in the closet, even though that is strictly against the advice of pretty much the entire psychiatric community. You might even make a "gay cure" clinic that effectively brainwashes gay people into acting straight (these exist, and are strongly discouraged for the harm they cause). You spend your and other people's time and often money on elaborate churches that contribute nothing to society. You follow the bible, loosely. You teach your children to follow the bible, loosely. You go onto the internet and tell us about about how you can't be convinced with facts. etc.
You can't and obviously don't believe that almighty god torture-killed himself just you could sit around and not modify your lifestyle in the least.

The point is, belief in god makes you do things that don't make sense - often harmful, often wasteful - for the explicit reason that you do not have a sensible reason for doing them.
Even the most basic aspect of theism involves a celebration of failure to use rational thought. Call it a gateway drug to Clarkyism, if you will.

"I mean sure, there are the ten commandments, but honestly, they don't really differ much from the rules of my country, so I can basically abide by them by abiding the rules of my country."

Your country has the death penalty on murder, adultery, theft, breaking the sabbath, sacrificing to non-christian gods and failing to honour your father or mother (just to name the few most prominent christian death-penalty laws)?
Obviously you can't follow those laws which require you to kill, if killing is outlawed. (Look up Jesus's teachings and not Paul's interpretations of them. Old testament law is mandatory.)
Also, I've already mentioned the countless laws introduced to countries because of christianity or whatever their religious majority happens to be. It should be fairly painless for christians to follow those laws which are exclusively christian. The rest of us aren't so lucky to have our own custom legal system.
So why do I care what you believe?
Because, fundamentally, what you believe hurts you and it hurts me because, ultimately, it hurts everyone.

"Hey, I can live with that."
 
Good points... But lots of broad sweeping judgements. You're criticising one kind of christian, and putting all others into that category, and also basically saying that christian is bad. If I believed in the rabbit holocaust (using your example, man it's a good one) would you tell me it's bad to? I accept what people believe, and if I have to judge them I judge them on what they do.
Epic post.
 
I generally stopped reading Mechagodzilla's rants against religion, for the same reason Solaris got that gift post. Daily experiences invalidate this academic discussion.
 
Zaktly. If you believe in something that helps you, what's wrong with that?
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
I generally stopped reading Mechagodzilla's rants against religion, for the same reason Solaris got that gift post. Daily experiences invalidate this academic discussion.
Click to expand...

You can't seriously counter his entire post with that....he took a good amount of time going over each point you made with his own reasoning..you might try the same.

what daily experiences are you talking about?
 
repiV said:
To approach this from another angle...
Isn't it rather hypocritical of you, Solaris, to take such an accusory tone with people for no other reason than that they have a level of belief in a higher power, after calling me a racist for stating that Islam is an evil, barbaric, totalitarian cult?
Is it OK to bash Christians but not Muslims?
Click to expand...

Answering on his behalf, the simple fact is that the western people reading this thread are vastly more likely to be christian.
There is also the problematic stereotype that christians are more reasonable than muslims, etc. (making atheists more open to approaching them), when they aren't more reasonable in the slightest.

Also, white people tend to be overprotective of muslims because they're mostly of non-caucasian descent. There is always the danger of anti-islamism being seen as racist, especially on the internet, which is a risk that is not faced when talking about christianity.

Also, while their religious beliefs are illogical, your political beliefs are both illogical and harmful. Moreso, you continue to cling to those beliefs despite abundant and irrefutable evidence exposing them as insane. You're a bit of a religious fanatic yourself - but your religion is communism.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Communism is basically a political religion because its successful implementation fully depends on a specific set of painfully unlikely and uncontrollable circumstances being met in a distant future. Effectively, it's an socio-economic version of the second coming.

However, Solaris isn't an extremist or anything. He's just an average social-ish type who frankly sucks at not saying really dumb confusing things. Like when Numbers is all about democracy and then supports most any fascist totalitarian person or practice you can name.

"KINDERGARTEN COMMUNISM" is probably the most accurate way of putting it, with emphasis primarily on the former.

Grizzly]Religion [is harmless]. Not it's execution.[/QUOTE] So is mass murder said:
Good points... But lots of broad sweeping judgements. You're criticising one kind of christian, and putting all others into that category, and also basically saying that christian is bad. If I believed in the rabbit holocaust (using your example, man it's a good one) would you tell me it's bad to? I accept what people believe, and if I have to judge them I judge them on what they do.
Epic post.
Click to expand...

Theotherguy addressed your concerns pretty much the exact way I would have, above. Moderatism is the breeding ground from which extremism flourishes.

Like the rat poison analogy above: they teach literal billions of people extremely violent lessons and then expect them not to follow those lessons. The worst extremists are only extreme because they actually do what the bible / qua'ran say.

By tacitly encouraging extremists to exist, all religion is a broken system fraught with needless peril.

I generally stopped reading Mechagodzilla's rants against religion, for the same reason Solaris got that gift post. Daily experiences invalidate this academic discussion.
Click to expand...

COPPP OUUUT :O

Once again, we have a person proudly declaring that he has given up on listening to facts.
If your core belief actually isn't nonsense, and why is your best response effectively "shut up"?
Jesus is crying at your evangelical skills, man.
 
dam I am getting bored of this internet fad of bash the religion

I am not religious but I dont go around bashing monks or stuff like that

however I really dont like stuff like scientology cuz is stupid but if you believed in god or not them thats your choice and not mine

and I think the new religion is atheism,cuz varios here write in a very religios way to bash religion
so imo they look more religios that the others

now lets start decorating the atheism church
 
I heven't figured out how to work the quote function yet, but... "If you believe in something that helps you, what's wrong with that?" Sure extremists are bad... But if you're Christian because the idea of God gives you confidence, why should that be removed? Maybe God doesn't exist, I don't know, but even if he doesn't what's wrong with people using the idea of him to make themselves feel better?
You don't hear people criticising diabetics because they use something to keep them going, so why Christians? I agree with you, that those who try to forcibly convert others to their religion or hurt others because they think that the religion means they have to are bad, but... As long as it's not hurting anyone, why is moderate religion bad?
 
I meet a rather large number of people daily, and it's impossible to differentate between a christian and an atheist, which contradicts Mechagodzilla's picture of a christian as a bloody killing machine devouring babies.

Not to mention that the decision to construct churches is usually made by the church authorities not us, and the last decision to split up the church's zone of authority has met with a lot of opposition and resentment.

I dismiss Mechagodzilla (even though his posts are rather funny and amusing) becuase, well, it's a sad thing that a lad so bright spends his time on such menial and, well, pointless tasks, showing the same amount of zeal in a crusade strangely analogous to christian extremists.

You're a man of science, I'm a man of faith, we go separate ways, okay, thanks, bye.
 
Yeah but I don't know how to work it, in a useful manner as others seem to.
 
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