The Amazing Atheist - YouTube debater about religion and other stuff

[Tyguy]

theres a multiquote button as well, click all the posts you want to quote then hit the quote button

 

[kineaesth]

And do you delete the stuff you don't want from between the quote tags?

 

[Tagaziel]

Yes, quoting the specific point you are replying to is a good move. Though if you're making cuts in the point you're replying to, mark the place where the cut content was with "(...)".

 

[Que-Ever]

Exactly. But the religious would like to twist his words and manipulate them by quoting out of context into making him sound religious.

You're the one who said that if you believe in a god, you're religious.

 

[kineaesth]

Oh, okay. I'll try it next time. Just I don't want to end up with a crazy screwed up message )=

 

[CyberPitz]

Eh, he was OK at first...then he started spewing the typical shit that makes us atheist look like idiots. And the fact he couldn't speak straight because he was too excited to go. hmm, oh well...

 

[Tyguy]

Eh, he was OK at first...then he started spewing the typical shit that makes us atheist look like idiots. And the fact he couldn't speak straight because he was too excited to go. hmm, oh well...

ya, he did tend to let them walk all over him....which doesnt help his case, he should of been the one sounding like an asshole, especially to the muslim.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Mechagodzilla wins. Sorry guys.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I meet a rather large number of people daily, and it's impossible to differentate between a christian and an atheist, which contradicts Mechagodzilla's picture of a christian as a bloody killing machine devouring babies.

Oh, so you didn't run into religious extremists on the street... just the moderates who allow them to exist and deliberately encourage the conditions behind their creation.

The things I mention happen and continue to happen. These are facts.
When the Kansas school board redefined "science" to mean "not science", did those christians on the street speak up? Did they say "**** this shit you retards are kicked out of our religion"?
You only need one Osama bin Laden to spoil the (already really unpallatable) barrel of religion. We happen to have a surplus on ideological Osamas.

They don't eat babies, by the way. Christians love babies so much, they tend to kill abortion doctors (who don't actually harm what you could legitimately call a baby but that's just those fact things getting in the way again). Granted, to date, I haven't heard of a christian eating an abortion doctor, but I'm not always up on the latest trends.

Not to mention that the decision to construct churches is usually made by the church authorities not us, and the last decision to split up the church's zone of authority has met with a lot of opposition and resentment.

And who supports the church authorites? Moderates, of course.
Who do the church authorities rely on for convenient outrage if someone considers taking their tax-free lolly away?
Moderates? Yes, moderates.

See why those people you can't tell apart just by looking at them on a street are still able to cause all manner of lovable mischief like voting against gay marriage and putting creationism in schools?
Try talking with them instead of just looking.
Most christians act secular, but they are not secular. that's the problem, because secularism is expressly forbidden by the bible.

Without the hypocritical ruse of moderatism, there would be no christianity. Gods law is seemingly more flexible than a Cirque du Soleil contortionist, which is why you have folks (like Murray in this thread) claiming that there is no contradiction between the laws of America or Sweden and the laws of the Bible.
Even though one of those says to kill, unquestioningly, all unruly children. Guess which!

Moderatism is the water that dilutes the poison, but never actually removes it. So it constantly builds up.

I dismiss Mechagodzilla (even though his posts are rather funny and amusing) becuase, well, it's a sad thing that a lad so bright spends his time on such menial and, well, pointless tasks, showing the same amount of zeal in a crusade strangely analogous to christian extremists.

Right, so - to you - writing about a thousand words in a factual essay is "the same amount of zeal" as the crusades.

No wonder you hate facts!
Facts are identical to that time there was a genocide in terms of badness. How stupid I was to have used facts!

I should have used bullshit! That way there'd be no need to put minimal effort towards preventing bloodshed instead of causing it. because then I wouldn't care!

You're a man of science, I'm a man of faith, we go separate ways.

I saw that movie. It was called "Live and Let Die".

 

[kineaesth]

You're pretty anti-religion. But, oh well, I won't keep gooing. Because if I tried to change your views I'd be a hypocrite.

 

[Geogaddi]

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own. But it is different from the religion of the naive man.

For the latter God is a being from whose care one hopes to benefit and whose punishment one fears; a sublimation of a feeling similar to that of a child for its father, a being to whom one stands to some extent in a personal relation, however deeply it may be tinged with awe.

But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

In response to the telegrammed question of New York's Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in 1929: "Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid 50 words." Einstein replied in only 25 (German) words: "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
---------

As some of you know, I am a recent de-convert from Christianity. I had always had my doubts, but I got pretty good at rationalizing and putting up mental blocks. The final breaking point though, was a comment from the youth pastor at the church I'd been attending off and on. He said something along the lines of "How arrogant is it for intellectuals to think that they can understand the universe through science?", "The human brain simply cannot understand the wonders of the universe. It's like trying to teach a chimp calculus."

As much as I wanted to have faith (the adult equivalent of a child putting his hands over his ears and saying LALALALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!) I just couldn't get past the sheer ignorance of the statement.

This, in combination with actually reading the Bible and realizing how racist, homophobic, sexist, hypocritical, and ridiculous it was was just too much.

I know some people like to talk about a "glow" that Christians give off, and I find it ironic that I get comments on how upbeat I seem lately.

These past few months have been the most vivid of my entire life. I can finally think freely and clearly, I can criticize ridiculous and or dangerous beliefs or practices without being a hypocrite.


Also, cocks.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'll let you be a hypocrite just this once, Kinetic, because it is essential that people challenge each-other's views.

That's the basis for all progress, and thus society in general.

I demand that you question me, because I'd like to see every purported reason why it's wrong to value facts in life.
I suggest you demand the same of yourselves.

 

[Raziaar]

Also, cocks.

Careful now... the moderators will delete your post for mentioning the human sexual organ, even if it relates to the video. :O



... :hmph:

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If saying "cocks" ain't against the rules.

 

[kineaesth]

Change the name from 'The Amazing Atheist - YouTube debater about religion and other stuff' to 'The Amazing hl2.net debate about religion and other stuff'. C;

 

[Murray]

"...when the very act of merely doubting gives you emotional pain in the form of grief?
See, there is a difference between disregarding a poor argument and being unreponsive (or reacting negatively) to any form of discussion.
If you feel pain when you discuss, then it's surely easier to disregard.
How can we have a rational discussion under a scenario where your emotional balance outweighs all forms of evidence?
If someone's not being rational, then that's a good reason to ignore them. Especially if they take pride in not questioning their beliefs."

I did question my belives. Now I don't, because I have reasons to belive in God and Jesus and like I said, I don't wish to talk about them and it's not due to the fact that I'm afraid that people may come up with accusations to why they are not reasons enough to believe in God. It's because that it will just end up in endless discussions with no end and I've already been there.



"If you're on youtube, you're probably an asshole by default, regardless of beliefs.
But then, why should atheists be gentle to you?
Do you respect the beliefs of alchemists and psychic surgeons?
When Clarky, in this thread, parrots new-age claptrap off of awful pap like "What the bleep do we know?" and random websites, do we really have condescend to him with a pat on the head and a "We believe you Clarky"?
To the point: if I ran up to you saying that there would be a laser rabbit attack in two weeks time, would you scramble to build a bomb shelter or would you, justifiably, call me stupid? You have equal evidence of god as I have of the upcoming Rabbit Holocaust, and I can assure you that I am as deeply, emotionally afraid of the Rabbit Holocaust as you are of hell.
So, do you listen to me? Do you build the bomb shelter?
I'm guessing no, you won't."

That's a pretty exaggerated example and I don't think it's justified to draw a comparison to christianity to it at all. There are no evidence, you say, and I say there are. At least to me there are. If you wish to know what they are, well sucks to be you, because like I said, I don't wanna have that aformetioned endless discussion again.



"You're reducing atheists to mere sophists, so no wonder you have little respect. I regret anyone who has to find reasons for their belief after the fact, but at least the have reasons."

You have the opinion that there are no reason to belive in God, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be alienated from belieing in him. They should be given the fair chance to belive in whatever they want to belive and if they choose to be atheists, fine, but don't treat them like shit if they are, because then they'll definately never change their mind on it ever again.




"Let's check that logic.
Yes, atheists are capable of eating food. That's one point there.
And although it is theorhetically possible for you to be friends with non-christians, aren't you being a tremendous asshole by not trying as hard as humanly possible to convert them?

They'll go to hell unless you stop them! Doesn't that bother you?
But I'll let that pass because it is still sadly possible to be an uncaring and selfish friend."

Alright, I'm an asshole. I should try to convince them to be christians really. However, I don't really think I will convince them at all and therefore I can't be arsed. They'll probably just be annoyed by it anyway.

The way I see it, I could try the futile attempt to make them christians and probably end up making them annoyed by my precence due to being a Jehova's, and statistically speaking, most people in Sweden are atheists so there's very little chance they are willing to change their mind. I'd rather just be friends with them instead and just don't give a damn about the afterlife and make their present life as pleasant as possible instead so I at least have done something for them. You wanna call me an asshole for that? Go ahead. It's not like I agree or anything.




"However, point B hits a snag: you very often can't do whatever is of your interests if you aren't an average christian and/or other religion.
Example: you cannot marry if you are gay in most countries (many still prohibit sodomy).
Example: you cannot legally smoke pot in most countries, despite it being less harmful than alcohol.
Example: you personally noted, you probably can't go to a school in the US without being harassed in some way.
Example: you can't obtain tax-free property for your clubhouse.
Example: you probably can't see a tit unless you have cable.
Example: you can't say a magic voice caused you to kill hundreds/thousands of people, predict that ghosts will blow up the world, claim that dinosaurs are a the product of a conspiracy, etc. and still get a large amount of respect.
etc.

Now, for a christian, you (assumedly) don't want to see tits, smoke the weed (drug use is a form of idolatry, you know, unless it's wine or something. The exact rules are oddly hazy) while, at the same time, your interest in tax-free churches and heterosexual marriage are always catered to."

You're basically stating issues that are discussable. There are some things that I do actually like to question when it comes to what's right and what isn't. Let's see, there are always that part about gays getting married. Well, I'm not opposed to that. Since gays basically can't help the fact that they like other men. However, gays getting children is where I draw the line, mainly due to the fact that that child will most likely get tormented in school and so on, but I'm probably going way off track by now, so on to another issue.

Smoking? What!? I did't know God ever said thou shan't smoke pot, or whatever.

I can't see a tit, no I guess not. Well, there's sinners everywhere except for Jesus, and I'm not Jesus.

...you know what? Why am I even discussing these issues? I interpret the bible the way I see fit. Now I here people go "HEY! You can't just interpret it the way you want! Then you're not being a christian!" No, I guess that I, by beliveing God sent his son to die for our sins is not being a christian. I just like being rational. I try following rules of the ten commandments. They are of course a bit questionable at certain times, but things like, I should not kill, steal, belive in other gods, cheat on my wife, and stuff like that, hey, that's as reasonable as it gets. It IS flat wrong and I agree that I shoulnd't do things like that, so in conclusion I don't live much of a different life as compared to atheists.

"I disagree.
How does this affect what you do in real life? Well, that's simple: at its most basic level, it stops you (and all other christians) from "sinning" even if there is no logical reason not to "sin". If you're gay, you stay in the closet, even though that is strictly against the advice of pretty much the entire psychiatric community. You might even make a "gay cure" clinic that effectively brainwashes gay people into acting straight (these exist, and are strongly discouraged for the harm they cause). You spend your and other people's time and often money on elaborate churches that contribute nothing to society. You follow the bible, loosely. You teach your children to follow the bible, loosely. You go onto the internet and tell us about about how you can't be convinced with facts. etc.
You can't and obviously don't believe that almighty god torture-killed himself just you could sit around and not modify your lifestyle in the least."

Yeah, I'm putting gays in death camps and being a Jehova's. I'm a terrible person.

Seriously. GET REAL! I'm not going to dead gay's familys telling them that he died rightfully due to God hating fags.

You're right. I contribute nothing to society when paying money to churches, which in turn sends that money to charity and starving children in Africa.

I have no children yet, and if I did I would tell them about my personal belives, and let them belive whatever they want. If you find that outrageously wrong, I think you need to reconsider your own principles, because I think it's justifiable to know things about your own father.

You call that a big change in lifestyle? Okey, fine. It is a change, naturally, however personally, I think the change is so small that it's neglectable.


"Your country has the death penalty on murder, adultery, theft, breaking the sabbath, sacrificing to non-christian gods and failing to honour your father or mother (just to name the few most prominent christian death-penalty laws)?
Obviously you can't follow those laws which require you to kill, if killing is outlawed. (Look up Jesus's teachings and not Paul's interpretations of them. Old testament law is mandatory.)
Also, I've already mentioned the countless laws introduced to countries because of christianity or whatever their religious majority happens to be. It should be fairly painless for christians to follow those laws which are exclusively christian. The rest of us aren't so lucky to have our own custom legal system.
So why do I care what you believe?
Because, fundamentally, what you believe hurts you and it hurts me because, ultimately, it hurts everyone."

In Sweden, we don't execute people. We put them into prison. Death-penalty indeed.

I don't see why what I belive hurts anyone, besides those with prejudicial belives on christians and their way of responding to things as opposed to atheists. You don't think you're not fundamentally hurting christians by saying that we shouldn't belive in this because you think you have reasons as of why we shouldn't? In my opinion, your interpretation of christians way of life is basically full of prejudices. One would think I'm an atheist if it weren't for the cross around my neck. It basically prooves that no matter if I belive in God or not, I can live a life just like anyone else.

 

[Uriel]

In response to the telegrammed question of New York's Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in 1929: "Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid 50 words." Einstein replied in only 25 (German) words: "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
---------

As some of you know, I am a recent de-convert from Christianity. I had always had my doubts, but I got pretty good at rationalizing and putting up mental blocks. The final breaking point though, was a comment from the youth pastor at the church I'd been attending off and on. He said something along the lines of "How arrogant is it for intellectuals to think that they can understand the universe through science?", "The human brain simply cannot understand the wonders of the universe. It's like trying to teach a chimp calculus."

As much as I wanted to have faith (the adult equivalent of a child putting his hands over his ears and saying LALALALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!) I just couldn't get past the sheer ignorance of the statement.

This, in combination with actually reading the Bible and realizing how racist, homophobic, sexist, hypocritical, and ridiculous it was was just too much.

I know some people like to talk about a "glow" that Christians give off, and I find it ironic that I get comments on how upbeat I seem lately.

These past few months have been the most vivid of my entire life. I can finally think freely and clearly, I can criticize ridiculous and or dangerous beliefs or practices without being a hypocrite.


Also, cocks.

Your Youth Pastor is a twink. You wouldn't EVER hear a comment like that coming from any of my church leaders. I can see why you made your decision, but everyone PLEASE keep in mind there are many different Christians, some are very different from your cookie cutter stereo type. Some of us have our religious leaders pushing us to learn and excel in school, especially science. Some of us are VERY different from the general idea of a Christian. I went to the Bible Belt and saw first hand what the usually idea of one is.

Do Not Generalize
Don't assume that all religions are the same

I do not understand why an atheist would have a problem with the notion in mind "Love Thy Neighbor". I am apart of a religion that has done so much good. So many of you are labeling all Christians as the same.

But everyone has the right to believe what they wish.

 

[Zephos]

Well this post probably won't matter much, but eh.

I'm catholic and I have been baptized.

I read one page of the bible before I got restless and started watching TV.

I believe there is a god, an afterlife and all that jazz.

The last time I went to a church was to see my sister get baptized 6 years ago.

That's the extent of my religious...ness. I believe in god, yet it doesn't harm me at all. I don't know about the "Rules and regulations of following said faith"... hell I don't even know the difference between a Catholic and Christian. So, it's annoying when I find people so hell bent on liberating 'blind, stupid, ignorant' people such as myself because they believe it will help me. I have a lot of friends who are atheist, but do they constantly pester me about my faith and why it's stupid in their eyes? No, they respect my decisions and frankly don't give two shits. Yes, there are people out there who are fanatical about religion and they do have problems... so why don't you pester them, not the people who quietly and in a non-harmful manner have their beliefs.

 

[theotherguy]

Well, one of the biggest reasons atheists like me care about religion and what people believe is that in this country the fundamentalist christian right has extreme political power, and one in four americans believes that the earth was created 7,000 years ago or less, and still more do not believe in evolution.

Now when you add all these votes togther, it amounts to huge political power. The religious right holds extreme lobbying and voting power which they put to all of their uses.

What does that mean to me? It means that their beliefs and "values" can be pushed onto me by law. It means that there is potential for crazy, unscientific things like young earth creationism and intelligent design can be taught to my children. It means that the average gay person has the potential of being denied marraige by constitutional amendment. It means that stem cell research will be seriously hampered and cures that could potentially save me and my family in a crisis will not be available. It means that I will be constantly downtrodden and viewed as some kind of amoral monster by the whole of society.

This is why I care. This is why I desire things to change, for facts to be laid out on the table, openly in public, it is why atheists everywhere must come out of the closet -no- unite, to foster our own political power.

Fundamentalists in particular must be watched at all costs...they must be ridiculed publicly, their beleifs must be shattered like scientology was shattered recentley. Certainly, let the government protect the freedom of religion clause, but let society weed out those harmful beliefs through mass media and ridicule.

I would not have a problem with religious moderates...if there were only moderates in the world., but there are not. There are insane people with insane beliefs who live among the moderates, and in our quest to protect the moderates we instead protect those parisitic fundamentalists who hide among them, and we allow them to spread through the ranks without critisism, and that spread translates into massive wealth and political power.

 

[kineaesth]

Nice. Agreed.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"I don't wish to talk [...] I've already been there. [...] I don't wanna have that [...] discussion."

Thanks for the lack of input.
Now I really understand your mindset.

"You have the opinion that there are no reason to belive in God, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be alienated from belieing in him."

You're right. They should be alienated from believing in it. But not because my opinion is different. It's that my opinion is supported by the concrete body of human knowledge.
It's quantifiably better than yours (whatever it may be).

"They should be given the fair chance to belive in whatever they want to belive and if they choose to be atheists, fine, but don't treat them like shit if they are, because then they'll definately never change their mind on it ever again."

Like you, right?
Christians have had their chance. They've had it for 2000 years. Other religions are well older than that.
How many religions have presented a single result? A single shred of tangible proof?
Not a single one in the history of man.
There's a difference between "treating like shit" and actually speaking rationally. See, this is the very problem. Religion is so tied up in lies and bullshit that telling the scientific, logical truth is offensive to you.
I'm "treating you like shit" by saying that 2+2 is 4 and not 5.

"I should try to convince [friends] to be christians really [to save them from hell]. You wanna call me an asshole for [not doing] that? Go ahead. It's not like I agree or anything."

Nah, that's cool. You can just ignore the horrific torture of billions because you feel sleepy or lazy or whatever.

Christianity provides essential moral guidance, folks.

"You're basically stating issues that are discussable. There are some things that I do actually like to question when it comes to what's right and what isn't. Let's see, there are always that part about gays getting married. Well, I'm not opposed to that."

First of all, religion is one of the only reason there is any debate about homosexuals.
Second, the bible says you're wrong; homosexuals must be killed.

"I did't know God ever said thou shan't smoke pot, or whatever."

You need to read up on your idolatry:
Random christian website:

"Although the Bible does not address marijuana directly, it does discuss other mind-altering drugs. Specifically, the Bible addresses the use of drugs in the book of Galatians:

Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

So, where are the drugs mentioned in this verse? Actually, the word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia, from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that if practiced would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong suggestion that the Christian should not practice drug use. In addition, the book of Revelation lists drug use as one of the things for which the unrepentant will suffer the wrath of God.

The Bible has a lot to say about alcohol. At the time, there was no hard (distilled) liquor, just wine and beer (which was more diluted at that time then it is now). Even so, the Bible has much to say about people who used wine to get drunk. One was Lot, who got drunk and slept with his daughters. Others sold girls to get wine to get drunk. The Bible warns about the bad effects of getting drunk - seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one's wealth. We are warned not to join with those people. The consequences of such behavior is judgment. Jesus Himself used two examples of those who will be drunk when God comes to judge the world. God's judgment of such behavior does not paint a pretty picture. The New Testament condemns drunkenness and warns that those who engage in that behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God (i.e., heaven).

The Old Testament warns the priests not to go into God's house drunk, or they will die. In the New Testament, those who serve in the body of Christ are not to be addicted to wine or any other sordid thing. Even those who do not directly serve in the church are warned not to be addicted to wine. Finally, the New Testament commands us to not get drunk, but be filled with the Spirit of God:

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18)

So, if one uses drugs or anything else to escape and get high, or is addicted to these substances, it is against the commands of scripture."

This religious framework is the basis for pretty much all the major anti-drug legislation out there.
It's the only reason marijuana is illegal.

"No, I guess that I, by beliveing God sent his son to die for our sins is not being a christian. I just like being rational. I try following rules of the ten commandments. They are of course a bit questionable at certain times, but things like, I should not kill, steal, belive in other gods, cheat on my wife, and stuff like that, hey, that's as reasonable as it gets. It IS flat wrong and I agree that I shoulnd't do things like that, so in conclusion I don't live much of a different life as compared to atheists."

You believe that Jesus was the result of god having ear-sex with his own mother, but you don't believe in the bible enough to actually follow it?

If you believe in God and the eternal punishment of hell, why do you only follow five out of ten commandments, and even then you refuse to kill anyone - which is what the commandments... command.

I like the part where you said you do all this because you "enjoy being rational", by the way.
I'm sure, rationally, that god won't send you to hell for ignoring the bible's teachings even though he said they are mandatory for staying out of hell.

Cognitive dissonance.

"Yeah, I'm putting gays in death camps and being a Jehova's. I'm a terrible person."

After this and the baby-eating comment before, I'm starting to get the impression that christians aren't very good at the whole "sarcastic exageration" thing.

"I'm not going to dead gay's familys telling them that he died rightfully due to God hating fags."

No, but you support the institution that houses those people.
If they're so insidious, why don't you kick them out of your religion? Get some standards.
My comments were about christians in gereral, by the way. Not necessarily you personally (I don't even know you beyond that you're swedish and not really good at following the bible, despite believing in (Paul's Version of) Jesus).

"I contribute nothing to society when paying money to churches, which in turn sends that money to charity and starving children in Africa."

Why don't you just do like I do and give straight to the charity without the middleman eating up funds?

"I have no children yet, and if I did I would tell them about my personal belives, and let them belive whatever they want. If you find that outrageously wrong, I think you need to reconsider your own principles, because I think it's justifiable to know things about your own father."

Teaching kids not to use rational thought is child abuse. I can't really emphasize that more.

"You call that a big change in lifestyle? Okey, fine. It is a change, naturally, however personally, I think the change is so small that it's neglectable."

Well, it turns out that you're actually ignoring pretty much everything the God and Jesus said.
You refuse to convert your friends, you ignore the vast majority of god's laws and you didn't even know that pot was prohibited.
I guess, honestly, I didn't expect you to be so bad at your own faith.

"In Sweden, we don't execute people. We put them into prison. Death-penalty indeed."

You got it backwards. I said you SHOULD execute because jesus says the old-testament is mandatory until the apocalypse.
the old testament, incase you missed it, demands mandatory execution for several dozen different sins.

"You don't think you're not fundamentally hurting christians by saying that we shouldn't belive in this because you think you have reasons as of why we shouldn't? In my opinion, your interpretation of christians way of life is basically full of prejudices. One would think I'm an atheist if it weren't for the cross around my neck. It basically prooves that no matter if I belive in God or not, I can live a life just like anyone else."

Actually, you have successfully proven that you're no better than an atheist. Just not in the way you think.
You're an athiest without the logic. You act the same, except that you make occassional references to jesus dying for sins that you don't really understand ("What do you mean pot isn't allowed in the bible?" "What do you mean I need to follow all the commandments?" "I don't care if sloth is a deadly sin. I'm too tired to bother saving people from torture.").
Basically, you're a christian in name only. Honestly, that's the worst kind of moderate. At least the extremists have "the courage of their convictions", meaning the courage eventually be blaze out in a fireball of ridiculousness.
You're just servicing the machine.

Finally, I don't think I have reasons for being athiest. I know I have reasons.
How do I know? Not faith, that's for sure.
I know with rigorous testing.
I have presented a falsifiable logical framework and it has yet to have been falsified, despite the fact that I try to relay it whenever I get the time to.
Unlike you model where you don't care or don't understand, I'm actually building upon an ever-growing framework.
Christians have the bible and there's nowhere to go from there but down. Hence why you've dropped the bible in favor of a comfortable secular lifestyle.
It's a shame such lame indifference causes so much evil in the world.

That's why I wish people would actually put up the slightest defense of faith.

I can see why you made your decision, but everyone PLEASE keep in mind there are many different Christians, some are very different from your cookie cutter stereo type. Some of us have our religious leaders pushing us to learn and excel in school, especially science. Some of us are VERY different from the general idea of a Christian. I went to the Bible Belt and saw first hand what the usually idea of one is.

Do Not Generalize
Don't assume that all religions are the same

All religions are the same. There are varying degrees of awfulness but, in the end, they all fail to operate under established fact. It's nice that your particular brand doesn't hate science, but what are you doing to stop those christians who do?

Let's face it. Christianity hasn't progressed at all since inception. Not from a biblical standpoint, that is. Instead of enforcing god's laws, it has rather quickly become some kind of bastardized secularism.
I mean, what in the hell are your leaders doing promoting science, of all things?

If you use science, then you are pretty much compelled to dis-believe in god. They do not reconcile.

There are scientists who are religious, but that just shows you the amount of doublethink involved in being a hyper-secularized christian today.

 

[Aenama]

Genius!

EDIT: Ravioli, aren't you lemon?

over here

 

[Darkside55]

This is a pointless endeavor. Both this thread, and what this "Amazing Atheist" is attempting to do--which is convince religious people that there is no God. While I'm all for trying to open people's minds, if there's one thing I've learned myself it's that the whole thing is an excercise in futility.

You cannot convince religious people there is no God. This is an impossibility. You can take a religious person to the absolute brink of their faith, you can give them facts and logic and you can regurgitate the teapot argument until you're blue in the face, but unless these people want to hear it, they're not going to. Religious people are the most obstinate bunch of people on the planet, and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone here by saying that but it is the absolute truth. I don't mean to be callous by saying it, but I am stating empirical fact. You can only get through so far with these people, but at the end of the day, you know what you get?

"Well, you've made some good points, but I don't see any reason to stop believing in God." That's what you get, man. You spend all your time trying to educate people and that's what you get for your efforts. Refute everything they say, give them logic and science and reason, curse and rave like this sickly long-haired fat dude condemning religion from his filthy garage, but at the end of the day you won't change a religious person's mind no matter WHAT you say unless they're willing to believe it. Unless they're ready to take that step over the edge instead of clinging to, "yeah, that makes sense, but I still believe in God," you're just wasting your breath.

And for those reasons, the guy in the video fails, everyone who posted an argument for religion fails, and everyone who tried to convince anyone in here about the nonexistance of god fails too.

 

[Solaris]

Here Here @ Mecha.

 

[Murray]

Mechagodzilla, I've realised that by simply attempting to engage in a religous discussion it won't matter no matter what I have in mind to say, there will always be someone wanting to contradict whatever I have in mind, BECAUSE it's about religion. People don't want me to be religous even though they don't know me, and really don't give rats ass wether I live or not, but when it comes to my religous belives, it's all of a sudden the most important issue to discuss in the world. I shouldn't belive in things I can't see. I guess I shouldn't belive in gravity then. (joke, so don't bother)

What you've said made me consider a few things, but one thing is for sure, you have not, just like every person else on this issue, convinced me to stop being a christian. I could go on to discuss the different things you were bringing up on the christianity thing and you would continue trying to nit-pick on these different issues and bring up whatever contradictions you may have, and like I said, I can't be arsed to continue this endless discussion. Yes, I'm a lazy person and I'm a coward, I'm refusing to face reason/logic/doughnuts/whatever.

In the end, this won't get us anywhere. You won't convince me, in this case mostly due to your outrageous prejudices, to stop being a christian. I won't convince you that I can have my religous belives because you for some reason care about my belives even if you don't know me.

I'm gonna leave this discussion and let people like you be a reminder to why these discussions are pointless. Feel free to be as provocrative as you know how. I'm gonna be smoking some pot for the first time in my life. (joke in case you did't notice) ->

 

[Tagaziel]

Mechie, I was referring to Lost episode in which Desmond is introduced.

Oh, and the crusade bit was not used in historical sense, rather as a metaphor of what you do - write long essays ON THE INTERNET attacking all religion. Take a break man.

On a side note, I find this rather amusing, borderline hilarious, that this topic goes on and on and on and on and on...

Don't you have better threads to post in?

 

[Uriel]

I had to laugh at the "All religions are the same"

*slaps forehead

Good Gosh! First he's telling me what I believe in, followed by putting every religion in the same basket, then on top of that, stating that every single one has been a damper on the entire human race?!

I find it comical

 

[Tagaziel]

Your avatar looks mind-numbingly great on my new laptop.

 

[Ravioli]

Try to see it from an Atheist viewpoint if you want to understand why most of us cant stand religious people. Let me make an example:

What if through out history, everyone believed that all sandwhiches can produce apple juice by feeding them to kitties. Lets say people were killed if they didnt believe this in history, and now everywhere you go people around you seriously believe that sandwhiches can produce apple juice by feeding them to kitties and they base their lifes on it and their thinking. Governments etc base their foundation on sandwhiches producing apple juice from feeeding it to kittens. Wouldnt this kind of piss you off? Everywhere you go, your friends, on TV, in music, in books, people seriosuly believed that sandwhiches produced apple juice by feeding it to kittens? And now and then people would try to make you believe it? And if your friend died he would be burried with sandwhiches? Wouldnt that make you really irretated after a while because its just so stupid to be true? But everyone keeps saying its true but you dont understand why you would think its true. Wouldnt that drive you insane? If everyone carried sandwhiches around their necks everyday? And placed sandwhiches on sticks everywhere? Wouldnt that seriously make you go crazy about how stupid these people are worshipping sandwhiches which by their belife produces apple juice by feeding it to cats?

Can you see now why atheists are irretated? No? Well, if you are arrogant and doesnt even read the above and even TRY to see it form our viewpoint then what is the point of asking why we feel this way? If you seriously want to know then put your mind in our place for a few secounds in a serious mature matter, just try it. Im not saying that you will automaticly understand, but i hope you get somewhat an understanding for our feelings.

 

[Raziaar]

Sorry... but I don't see the point of your post. Sandwiches do produce apple *AND* orange juice by feeding them to kitties.

 

[Tyguy]

That is his entire point

 

[Geogaddi]

I had to laugh at the "All religions are the same"

*slaps forehead

Good Gosh! First he's telling me what I believe in, followed by putting every religion in the same basket, then on top of that, stating that every single one has been a damper on the entire human race?!

I find it comical

They're the same in that you have to be willing to abandon logic to accept them. My youth pastor was not a nut. In fact he's very intelligent and educated, which makes it all the more screwed up.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Try to see it from an Atheist viewpoint if you want to understand why most of us cant stand religious people. Let me make an example:

What if through out history, everyone believed that all sandwhiches can produce apple juice by feeding them to kitties. Lets say people were killed if they didnt believe this in history, and now everywhere you go people around you seriously believe that sandwhiches can produce apple juice by feeding them to kitties and they base their lifes on it and their thinking. Governments etc base their foundation on sandwhiches producing apple juice from feeeding it to kittens. Wouldnt this kind of piss you off? Everywhere you go, your friends, on TV, in music, in books, people seriosuly believed that sandwhiches produced apple juice by feeding it to kittens? And now and then people would try to make you believe it? And if your friend died he would be burried with sandwhiches? Wouldnt that make you really irretated after a while because its just so stupid to be true? But everyone keeps saying its true but you dont understand why you would think its true. Wouldnt that drive you insane? If everyone carried sandwhiches around their necks everyday? And placed sandwhiches on sticks everywhere? Wouldnt that seriously make you go crazy about how stupid these people are worshipping sandwhiches which by their belife produces apple juice by feeding it to cats?

Can you see now why atheists are irretated? No? Well, if you are arrogant and doesnt even read the above and even TRY to see it form our viewpoint then what is the point of asking why we feel this way? If you seriously want to know then put your mind in our place for a few secounds in a serious mature matter, just try it. Im not saying that you will automaticly understand, but i hope you get somewhat an understanding for our feelings.

win

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You won't convince me, in this case mostly due to your outrageous prejudices, to stop being a christian.

What outrageous prejudices?
What in the name of god are you talking about?

Prejudice is pre-judgement.
It is, by definition, judgement without enough facts.

I have facts and you refuse facts.

I had to laugh at the "All religions are the same"

Show me how your religion is quantifiably better than any other, explaining why.

You can't do that, so the joke is on you.

 

[repiV]

Answering on his behalf, the simple fact is that the western people reading this thread are vastly more likely to be christian.

Well I'm glad you answered on his behalf, as he conviniently avoided answering for himself...as expected.

There is also the problematic stereotype that christians are more reasonable than muslims, etc. (making atheists more open to approaching them), when they aren't more reasonable in the slightest.

Sorry, but Christians generally are a lot more reasonable than Muslims. The vast majority of Christians hold their beliefs for little more than comfort, tradition or community and are, for the most part, indistinguishable from the rest of the population unless you actually hold a discussion about religion.
Whereas the vast majority of Muslims, certainly those of Middle Eastern or Pakistani or Somalian descent have their religion/cult govern their life.
They actively differentiate themselves from everyone else. There's a reason that Christians are commonly friends with atheists, but Muslims are commonly only friends with other Muslims. I can't speak for Canada, but that's what it's like here.
Christian extremists are very rare and tend to just be outspoken nutjobs who might protest a funeral here or lobby the government there. Perhaps make a stupid video here and blow up an abortion clinic there. Islamic terrorism is a global problem and a serious threat, and you won't find many "moderate" Muslims condemning their actions. You can find widespread support or sympathy for them amongst the general Muslim population. On the other hand, 99%+ of Christians think that Fred Phelps is a whackjob.
What you have to realise is that Islam is not just a religion, it's an insiduous totalitarian entity that seeks to govern all aspects of life for all people all over the world. Last I checked, there was no Christian equivalent of Sharia law. It's like fascism, only without the technical and scientific accomplishment.

Also, white people tend to be overprotective of muslims because they're mostly of non-caucasian descent. There is always the danger of anti-islamism being seen as racist, especially on the internet, which is a risk that is not faced when talking about christianity.

Only stupid people confuse anti-Islamism or any kind of anti-Islamic sentiment with racism. Solaris is a hypocrite whichever way you look at it.

Agreed. Communism is basically a political religion because its successful implementation fully depends on a specific set of painfully unlikely and uncontrollable circumstances being met in a distant future. Effectively, it's an socio-economic version of the second coming.

However, Solaris isn't an extremist or anything. He's just an average social-ish type who frankly sucks at not saying really dumb confusing things. Like when Numbers is all about democracy and then supports most any fascist totalitarian person or practice you can name.

"KINDERGARTEN COMMUNISM" is probably the most accurate way of putting it, with emphasis primarily on the former.

Solaris' problem is that he always takes the side of the "victim", particularly when those "victims" are responsible for their own lack of achievement or status...

 

[Ennui]

It is difficult for me as an atheist to honestly respect anyone for being religious, other than Buddhists, though I try to be respectful anyway. Honestly, to atheists, religious people (other than Buddhists, who are pretty chill and slick) essentially seem like they're closing their eyes, putting their hands in their ears and shouting NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH THREE THREE THREE every time you try to tell them that 1+1=2.

 

[Uriel]

Show me how your religion is quantifiably better than any other, explaining why.

You can't do that, so the joke is on you.

Neither can you show me how all religions are the same, other than placing them in a broad and general category.

You cannot state all religions have and are harming society.

 

[Ennui]

Mechie, I was referring to Lost episode in which Desmond is introduced.

Oh, and the crusade bit was not used in historical sense, rather as a metaphor of what you do - write long essays ON THE INTERNET attacking all religion. Take a break man.

On a side note, I find this rather amusing, borderline hilarious, that this topic goes on and on and on and on and on...

Don't you have better threads to post in?

This is the first post I've read of yours in this entire thread and it reeks. Absolutely reeks.

If he's wasting his time writing long essays on the internet attacking religion, then don't waste your time responding, particularly not if you aren't willing to respond in kind. Your half-assed, slippy way of trying to deride him for effort (as if there is something wrong or pathetic about doing something fully and to the best of your ability) because it's on the internet is transparent and pretty much only deprecates you.

Don't insult people for spending time online when you're on a forum for a video game.

 

[Tagaziel]

I essentially stopped caring about any religion debates and true Ennui, that was trollish of me. Still, I think that it'd be better for Mechagodzilla to write a book and publish it instead of ranting on a forum.

Sorry Mech, I was disrespectful towards you.

 

[Ennui]

Thank you for NOT being a jackass and apologizing Mikael seriously we don't see it much online, especially in this sort of thread

As for the little argument between Mecha and Uriel, I think it's fair to say that at least most organized religions have harmed society. Not all, but mostly just because I try to avoid making blanket statements about things that one cannot easily or conclusively quantify. Christianity, Islam, and most of the other major religions that are fairly high profile in the world have certainly harmed society. Any ideology founded on something as unreasonable, illogical, and unsubstantiated as the idea of a God or presiding judge and creator of life becomes immensely dangerous when it is taken to the point where people would kill for it. That is inherently dangerous to society, even if it has not yet been demonstrated.