The Doomsday Code

[JNightshade]

I never said it makes sense. I simply believe that when you lump everything into black and white, you're as bad as the conservatives you loathe so deeply.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I don't loathe conservatives. In fact, a large portion of my political opinions fall on the side of the "conservative agenda" or whatever.
I like to consider myself above that political divisiveness that turns terminology into epiphets.

Like I said, I am only concerned with one thing: making actual sense.
I'm saying that two plus two is, in fact, not equal to five.

Either people make sense or they do not.
Now, religion in all its many forms does not make sense.
If it made sense, it would be a philosophy.
There's no ambivalence I'm glossing over here, as I think you agree. You acknowledged right there that it's senseless.

So obviously I'm lumping this into black and white, because it's a yes-or-no question.
Do you consider morality to be inherently scientific, or are you taking morality from a god?
You simply can't do both.


There are absolutes in this world, and it's only through conditioning that people either dismiss that notion or manufacture fictional ones.
It's pleasant to imagine that everyone's ideas are equally valid, but that simply is not the case.
Some people are wrong.
I call them religious people.

 

[el Chi]

But Islam is growing by leaps and bounds and Christianity is barely keeping up with the world population.

Not entirely so.
Christianity has, over the last decade or so, become concerned about its increasing irrelevance within a modernised society (the growth of atheism and science; the separation of church from law etc.).
As such, it has "galvanised" itself by becoming increasinlgly fervent and extremist through the evangelicals etc.
Evolution has been taught in science classes around the globe as hard FACT for decades yet ovber the last couple of years, creationists have come out of the woodwork having all of a sudden decided that this was not right.
Why?
Because they could see that no-one cared about creationism anymore. Evolution makes sense and the idea that "Intelligent Design" should be taught in a class built on empirical observation and as close as we can get to cold, hard facts does not make sense. One learns the generally accepted scientific theories of the day. Hundreds of years ago, people would have been taught that the world was flat because that was what the accepted ideas of the time were. Incidentally, they also would have been taught that the world was created in seven days, but that's progress for you.

If you're like our pal MiccyNarc and believe that religion is worth it for the charity, there is the obvious problem that identical charity can be accomplished without any god at all.

I was talkingg to a friend about this the other day. He was arguing that religious representitives were important in our need for morality.
I maintain that whilst many of our generally-accepted moral beliefs are borne out of religious ones - don't murder, don't steal, etc - we have decanted the ones that make sense in a tolerant society and have amalgamated them into our laws and our collective consciousness. We don't really need religion or its exponents to up-hold them.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I don't know where the compulsion to stop murdering came from, whether it be in origin a religious construct or (far, far more likely) the biological need for positive social interaction.
Otherwise, in the case of the latter, how would religions have formed in the first place?

What it comes down to, however, is the fact that it does indeed make perfect logical sense not to go about stabbing people.
Like I said, religion only governs the most abstract of concepts. "Don't eat pork because pork is evil and the magic will get you."

But not murdering people isn't an abstract concept. You needn't have a ghost tell you that it's wrong for you to believe as much.

In fact, I find it supremely quizzical and not but a little terrifying that people have voices in their heads telling them not to kill people, and that's all that is keeping them from doing so.

Even here, in the superficially sensible anti-murder argument for religion, you can see even further nonsensicality.
The bible does indeed say not to murder, but the penalty for every sort of murder, including accidental, is death!

What I've learned through my research of the bible is that the whole morality trope is a total lie. Christians everywhere are following their own moral compasses*, and use the bible more as an excuse to do things that would otherwise be societally unacceptable.
(Censoring free speech, imposing arbitrary moral judgements and overall trying to establish a theocratic dictatorship, etc.)

Fred Phelps may say that god hates fags, but he's not killing any of them. The bible is very clear that homosexuality is punishable by death.

Even Phelps is sensible enough not to murder, but he is still using the bible as an excuse for his insane hate.
His version of morality only exists inside of his head, not the bible.

If anything, the continual and willful ignorance of the bible's fundamental role as an instruction manual for the genocidal dictatorship proves that morality is biological and not societally mandated.

It also proves that pure, biological morality makes you into a total asshole.
A portion of us have the intelligence and kindness to stop us from being dangerous assholes.
Religion is an (ineffective) safe-haven for those who do not.


*Following your own moral compass is punishable by eternity in hell.