the "Facts About Iran" Thread

99.vikram said:
I'd rather have my country be armed and non-aligned, than unarmed and aligned to a power bloc.
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You can arm yourself with conventional weapons! Nuclear weapons only cause distrust and instability in the region!


Heh. But I know what you mean. I wish my country was strong enough to get all of southeast asia.
 
Nukes have no practical purpose in warfare, but they do have a necessary deterrent effect. Mutually assured destruction makes sure nobody pisses about, although some more insane people see going out in a blaze of glory as a desirable thing and that's why we must make sure countries like Iran do not go nuclear. The equivalence argument holds no weight, as Iran's nuclear armanent would likely end up launched at Israel and not sitting in the silos.
 
15357 said:
But I know what you mean. I wish my country was strong enough to get all of southeast asia.
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Then join me in the quest for the perfect genetically enhanced ninja monkey cyborg warrior!

If the UN is serious about nuclear disarmament, every country should be inspected and then forced to dispose of the nukes found. Including USA, China...

Nukes have no practical purpose in warfare, but they do have a necessary deterrent effect.
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Proto-nukes (smaller nukes) can be used to wipe out entire battalions in battle.
 
99.vikram said:
Proto-nukes (smaller nukes) can be used to wipe out entire battalions in battle.
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I've not heard of those. I still can't see much practical usage in modern war however, as battles don't tend to be fought en masse.
 
Raziaar said:
But are all the brutal murders that happened by his hands and the hands of his sons and generals, worth it for that reason?
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I never said anything about it being worth it.

I'm just stating the facts.
 
cat said:
known to sponsor terrorism? US does that too. Nuclear Weapons is the only way the US will treat you like an equal. If Iran gets nuclear weapons the Us can easily lose many soldiers when invading. Thats why they dont want them to get rockets.


Besides what exactly do you mean by terrorism?


You are basing these accusations on Us propagande which is not even proved.
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I think you underestimate the ability of the US military to effect the destruction of such weapons before they are used.
 
99.vikram said:
Then join me in the quest for the perfect genetically enhanced ninja monkey cyborg warrior!

If the UN is serious about nuclear disarmament, every country should be inspected and then forced to dispose of the nukes found. Including USA, China...


Proto-nukes (smaller nukes) can be used to wipe out entire battalions in battle.
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You mean tactical nukes (as opposed to strategic nukes)?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAxAvkQ4tXk[/YOUTUBE]

Raziaar said:
That's why it was in the form of a question. I was asking what you thought.
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It probably wasn't worth it, especially looking at what Iraq is like today.
 
The things that piss me off about modern war is that it's no longer conventional.
 
I think you underestimate the ability of the US military to effect the destruction of such weapons before they are used.
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what does this mean?
 
kirovman said:
Yeah, it'd be better if they still used spears.
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That would be awesome. Beats being sniped by a man dressed as a civilian or blown up by a supposingly pregnant women.
Or, for that matter, getting clusterbombed.

Spears ftw! :p
 
Do you think that Religion/Religious laws are a legitimate method of government?
 
Do you think that Religion/Religious laws are a legitimate method of government?

the problem is that we look at them as "Religious laws", they're laws that are "right", if you look at it this way, you wouldn't think it's not a legitimate method of govenment.
the thing is, the western world has always thought of islamic laws as out-dated ones, it's simply not like that. we shouldn't think if a muslim does something wrong, islam says it, just as in other religions, the same thing might happen. if someone is beheaded by another person that calls himself a muslim, or reads the quran while doing it, we shouldn't think that there is such a thing in islam.
i'm pretty sure you have something in mind that makes you think "Religious laws", or better should i say, "islamic laws" are not right, like a law that you think is wrong or something you've seen, i would really like to know what that is, i could tell you if islam says such thing, or simply why it's right.
to answer your question, yes, i think if islamic laws are done in the right way, they are a legitimate method.
 
I think the "outdated" comes from the fact that the Quran doesnt have any "revisions" if (i remember correctly). There is no "enlightenment" or adjustment of the Qu'ran (and in Islam), of its laws/text etc to the current time.
Of course this is because Muslims consider the text holy and no man is fit or entitled to change anything, but this is where the out-dated comes from.
Many views on things don't modernize in Islam, hence for instance women are still seen as inferior to men, often oppressed and homosexuals are considered wrong and outlawed.
Cheating on your husband i think is punishable by death or tied to a corporal punishment, as is homosexual activities in public.
This along with how women are treated makes a lot of people in the West see Islam as primitive and in some cases barbaric as to how it is implemented => it is basically the same as Christianity 300-400 years ago...
Now granted most religions are conservative, and even within Christianity there are large oppressive and intolerant sections, the point is virtually all Western countries are secular states, so there is no state-controlled oppression anymore.
On top of that, if you read the old Bible texts or even in some passages in the Old Testament you'll find the same oppressive and/or violent stories as in the Qu'ran. In that time, things were harsh, and these stories somehow "fitted" then, but not today.

Long story short: I don't think any religious laws should govern society, and even though I'm a Christian myself, I firmly believe in an even more than secular state, in which religion falls to the background.
If not, religion is a too powerful system of corruption and oppression.

I have a question about an incident in Iran that shocked many people in the west. I've heard many variations on it, but here it goes:
Is it true a while ago 2 teenage boys who were caught doing homosexual activities public ally or in indecent places were executed?
 
No laws should ever be made based on religion.
 
repiV said:
I've not heard of those. I still can't see much practical usage in modern war however, as battles don't tend to be fought en masse.
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Lol... "send forth all legions..."

...this is no bs btw...

...i dont have the title, but i've read that feba troops were planned to be issued with palm sized entrenching tool... that is a K11 explosive charge.

...all you do is prime the explosive, drop the charge on the ground. The explosive is shaped and directed so all the energy is directed down, and therefore creates a 6ft foxhole quickly and easily.

In the event of an atomic blast, the soldier primes an explosive, jumps in the hole and waits for the explosion to subside completely. The soldier then exits the foxhole and treats himself to anti-radiation medication.

So virtually in the event of a nuclear strike on troops on the front line, they would be virtually protected by the blast...

:cheese: Almost makes me want to sign up... Not.
 
What is your general position on corporal and capital punishment?

Also, do you think death penalty was suitable in these two cases?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5217424.stm
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=5183
Both those girls were tried with the Iranian Law, that you defend so intensely.

well, i'm not the one to decide whether what they've done is right or wrong. we must understand that there are some rules in any country one may not like, the iranian government has rules for sex before marriage, those two i'm pretty sure knew that, it's just like this, think if i wanted to sell drugs and thought it's my right to do so, well, about every country in the world has strict rules for that, even if i think what i'm doing is right. i can't accept that and at the same time sell drugs, and if i do, when i get punished for it, i can't complain why i'm being punished, it's simply a rule i may not disobey.

my opinion is that they fully understood what they were doing, there are places you could go when you have problems, they'll help you out. it's not reasonable to do whatever you want, just because you have problems.
 
jerkasaur said:
What is your general position on corporal and capital punishment?

Also, do you think death penalty was suitable in these two cases?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5217424.stm
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=5183
Both those girls were tried with the Iranian Law, that you defend so intensely.

well, i'm not the one to decide whether what they've done is right or wrong. we must understand that there are some rules in any country one may not like, the iranian government has rules for sex before marriage, those two i'm pretty sure knew that, it's just like this, think if i wanted to sell drugs and thought it's my right to do so, well, about every country in the world has strict rules for that, even if i think what i'm doing is right. i can't accept that and at the same time sell drugs, and if i do, when i get punished for it, i can't complain why i'm being punished, it's simply a rule i may not disobey.

my opinion is that they fully understood what they were doing, there are places you could go when you have problems, they'll help you out. it's not reasonable to do whatever you want, just because you have problems.
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So you do think it's right that an 18-year old girl was hung because she was defending herself against rapers?
 
So you do think it's right that an 18-year old girl was hung because she was defending herself against rapers?

no, i was talking about those who have sex before marriage.

BBC said:
However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law - within the confines of marriage - is nine, and furthermore, rape is very hard to prove in an Iranian court.
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and it's easily proven in other countries? come one.

BBC said:
She was sentenced to execution by hanging, while Darabi got just 95 lashes.
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now this is total bullshit, someone gets raped (the way you say it), and the raper gets to live while the one who got raped gets killed? what kind of country do you think i live in? it's not like that. the media is having such an influence that everyone believes it without even thinking.
this man has raped a women, or not, if he has, he'll be killed, for 1) abusing 2) raping and 3) having sex with someone else, if he hasn't, they can't do anything with him, since he hasn't done anything. there is no such thing that if a man has raped some one, give him 95 lashes and kill the girl. come on, please.

oh and saying she was 22, if she had sex with a man and they were to kill her for that, it wouldn't matter if she were 22 or 18 or whatever, why change her age?
 
jerkasaur said:
and it's easily proven in other countries? come one.
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I heard that's because to prove rape in Iran, you have to have several male witnesses to testify.

So, stands to reason that it would be difficult to prove.
 
The thread title should be changed into "Ask an Iranian", not "the facts" since I find anything jerkasaur posted sourced, so we're "taking his word for it".
I'm not saying the media is not biased, and ripping Iran on exaduration and sometimes even lies, its just that I don't enjoy sourced articles being binned because somebody who happens to come from that country says "its not true".
No offense Jerkasaur, i think its a great initiative your doing here, but could you link us some sources?
 
Ome_Vince said:
I'm not saying the media is not biased, and ripping Iran on exaduration and sometimes even lies, its just that I don't enjoy sourced articles being binned because somebody who happens to come from that country says "its not true".
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Heh, reminds me of the Tiananmen Square incident.

Whilst I've met people who were actually there, most Chinese people don't know anything about it. Or at least are not willing to talk about it.
 
kirovman said:
Heh, reminds me of the Tiananmen Square incident.

Whilst I've met people who were actually there, most Chinese people don't know anything about it. Or at least are not willing to talk about it.
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probably because the students involved didn't even constitute .0001% of the Chinese population. It wasn't some great big national uprising, contary to what the Western Media at the time told you. China is like a 1980s capitalists wet dream these days, the country is Communist in name only.
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
probably because the students involved didn't even constitute .0001% of the Chinese population. It wasn't some great big national uprising, contary to what the Western Media at the time told you. China is like a 1980s capitalists wet dream these days, the country is Communist in name only.
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The protests were happening in up to 400 of Chinas cities, not only Beijing, but they smaller and were resolved peacefully in most cases.

It scared the government enough into sending in the troops and tanks from outside of the city to deal with them, and scares them enough to ban all mention of it within the country.
 
kirovman said:
The protests were happening in up to 400 of Chinas cities, not only Beijing, but they smaller and were resolved peacefully in most cases.

It scared the government enough into sending in the troops and tanks from outside of the city to deal with them, and scares them enough to ban all mention of it within the country.
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Sure it happened across the Country, but the plain truth of the matter was it wasn't some great big national uprising (ala the Russian Revolution) that was brutally crushed by the tyrannical forces of evil as the Western Media would have it portrayed. The numbers of protesters involved in terms of public demographic was miniscule. It's unfortunate that people were killed in the event, but it doesn't make the protest any more valid than a peaceable one.
 
The protest was perfectly valid, and many of the Communist leaders were sympathetic. Even the Chinese Prime Minister got arrested and fired by the hard-liners for sympathising with this students.

Anyway, the point I was bringing up with Tiananmen Square is that it is a taboo subject there, which is how I'd imagine sensitive issues in Iran are.

The Russian Revolution comparison is a bit of a Red Herring.
 
kirovman said:
The protest was perfectly valid, and many of the Communist leaders were sympathetic. Even the Chinese Prime Minister got arrested and fired by the hard-liners for sympathising with this students.

Anyway, the point I was bringing up with Tiananmen Square is that it is a taboo subject there, which is how I'd imagine sensitive issues in Iran are.

The Russian Revolution comparison is a bit of a Red Herring.
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Really? I didn't know it had support within the CCP.
What do you think then kirovman...is China going to be a menace to the world, a valuable contributor, or something in between?
 
Really? I didn't know it had support within the CCP.
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Yeah, they purged a lot of party members who supported the protests. Zhao Ziyang was the guy who was Prime Minister.

What do you think then kirovman...is China going to be a menace to the world, a valuable contributor, or something in between?
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Something in between probably. It could swing either way really, but I think they're pretty determined to be stable and do business with others, rather than be agressive.

Once they grow in power and prosperity, the people will start to demand their say, and they'll probably undergo a late democratisation like with South Korea or Taiwan.

Then maybe they'll have a big event which will boost their confidence (like the US winning WW2) and suddenly they'll become extroverted rather than introverted. Hopefully that would be a good thing.

I do see a lot of similarities with Chinese and Americans (from the small everyday things to some of the larger things).

However the predicted events above are pure speculation on my part. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
kirovman said:
Yeah, they purged a lot of party members who supported the protests. Zhao Ziyang was the guy who was Prime Minister.
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Shame.

Something in between probably. It could swing either way really, but I think they're pretty determined to be stable and do business with others, rather than combat.

Once they grow in power and prosperity, the people will start to demand their say, and they'll probably undergo a late democratisation like with South Korea or Taiwan.

Then maybe they'll have a big event which will boost their confidence (like the US winning WW2) and suddenly they'll become extroverted rather than introverted. Hopefully that would be a good thing.

I do see a lot of similarities with Chinese and Americans (from the small everyday things to some of the larger things).
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Thanks. I just wanted to know your opinion, having lived there and all. I'd still like to get over there some day...is there much of a demand for recruitment consultants in Shanghai?

Hu Jintao seems like a good guy, but I'm wary of trusting that belief. He does lead a fairly oppressive government, after all. He's very charismatic at least.
 
repiV said:
Thanks. I just wanted to know your opinion, having lived there and all. I'd still like to get over there some day...is there much of a demand for recruitment consultants in Shanghai?
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I'm not sure, I'd guess there is a high demand, since there's thousands of new jobs being created everyday there. Speaking Chinese maybe a prerequisite for a lot of the jobs though. Although I'm sure there's a lot of vacancies for recruitment consultants getting Westerners into Western companies in Shanghai.

Hu Jintao seems like a good guy, but I'm wary of trusting that belief. He does lead a fairly oppressive government, after all. He's very charismatic at least.
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Yes, I'm not sure what to think about him. He seems progressive and technocratic.
Apparently there's a lot of rival factional disputes going on at the top of the CCP now, there are many disagreements about how the country should be run.
Hu Jintao was elected as president as a compromise between these rival factions, as he seemed comparitivly moderate.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the CCP is evil to the bone, and we must maintain absolute vigilance against this very real threat.
 
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