The first anti-Islamist music video...

[CptStern]

you'll have to refresh my memory on dutch history as I'm not familiar with that particular event

 

[Ome_Vince]

Here's the wiki article.
Only briefly read through it, it indicates around 45.000-100.000 civilian casualties, though I remember last years ceremony of Indonesia's independence, which was the first time a Dutch minister was allowed present they claimed 500.000.
I'll double check later on.

Edit1:
lol, look how wacky our "empire" was. At least we build New York Only was it then called New Amsterdam. O, and for the Americans here that don't know the Dutch influence too well in that region. Brooklyn is lead off of Dutch "Breukelen", and Harlem was New Haarlem. There's more I'll find later on.
Ah well, at some point we actually pwned, just a tad

 

[CptStern]

it's a little bit different than the example I used ...admittedly I only skimmed through it but that's more akin to what's currently happening in iraq and was state sanctioned ...in my example they were zionist terrorists who deliberately killed british civilians in an act of terrorism. Menachem Begin as leader of the terrorist organization of Irgun ordered the bombing ..years later he became Israel's prime minister ..in 2006 former members of Irgun along with former prime minister Netanyahu celebrated the bombing of the king david hotel ..clearly they're unapologetic about the fact they killed british civilians for political ideology ..they never stood trial for their acts of terrorism

 

[Ome_Vince]

As did every freedom-fighter/terrorist that fought for independence. They celebrate their acts.
(Note: I'm not approving these acts, i don't care what anybody calls em terrorists or freedom fighters they're all the same).
Btw, didn't Menachem Begin later on get a Nobel Prize for Peace for his works with Egypt in Camp David?
He's still a conservative dingdong though. All in all I'm starting to lose track of what we're actually discussing here since I already mentioned Zionists are starting to be no different than Hamas; what is the point you're trying to make and you think I disagree on?

 

[CptStern]

I replied to nemesis post not yours ..you replied to my post to nemesis by saying the dutch are terrorists and I said it was a little different scenario ..and now we're here scratching our heads trying to figure out how we got here


/me points finger in your general direction

 

[Ome_Vince]

Uhm, not true, you replied to my post and then I replied to your post
Nevertheless, I also wasn't trying to "point out derailing" but merely try and get us both at the same point: what are we discussing, and disagreeing on. Which is nothing as far as read back.

 

[CptStern]

Uhm, not true, you replied to my post and then I replied to your post
Nevertheless, I also wasn't trying to "point out derailing" but merely try and get us both at the same point: what are we discussing, and disagreeing on. Which is nothing as far as read back.

yes but my post was directed at someone else but then your post somehow got mixed up with my post when replying to your post, so then I posted something about your post, which warrented posting I might add, leading to your reply to my post. After reading your post I was unsure if your post was directed at my post or vice versa ..so now I'm posting this post in the hopes of clarifying all earlier posts

 

[Ome_Vince]

hehe, alright

 

[SAJ]

Most Zionism was always relatively harmless, but the problem with a lot of modern-day Zionism in Israel, is that its almost become the equal counter-part of Hamas, in their claims to have religious rights to in a lot of cases Muslim and Christian land.

Can you pass that one by me again please? Surely the difficulty of zionism has always been that it requires rights to others land by its very definition, no?

As did every freedom-fighter/terrorist that fought for independence. They celebrate their acts.
(Note: I'm not approving these acts, i don't care what anybody calls em terrorists or freedom fighters they're all the same).
QUOTE] No, they're different. Terrorism is a tactic that is employed by state and non-state militaries. It is not only used by "freedom fighters" , nor is it always the tactic of choice for all those who fight for their (or others) freemdom. That might strike you as picky, but I felt that the distinction is worth making.

Edit1:
lol, look how wacky our "empire" was. At least we build New York Only was it then called New Amsterdam. O, and for the Americans here that don't know the Dutch influence too well in that region. Brooklyn is lead off of Dutch "Breukelen", and Harlem was New Haarlem. There's more I'll find later on.
Ah well, at some point we actually pwned, just a tad

The dutch did indeed pwn during the age of sail. In fact England and Holland's rivalry spawned terms in English such as "Dutch courage" "Dutch cap" "Going Dutch" "Dutch gold" etc. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_courage )

Its meant to be insulting but centuries later all it does is show how deep the competition between the two super powers used to run.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Zionism is an international political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel[1]. Formally organized in the late 19th century, the movement was successful in establishing the State of Israel in 1948, as the world's first and only modern Jewish State. It continues primarily as support for the state and government of Israel and its continuing status as a homeland for the Jewish people.[2] Described as a "diaspora nationalism",[3] its proponents regard it as a national liberation movement whose aim is the self-determination of the Jewish people.[4]

While Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood is thought to have first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era, [5][6] the modern movement was mainly secular, beginning largely as a response to rampant antisemitism.[7] At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism gradually gained more support, and the Holocaust accelerated Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel. On May 14, 1948, the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel stated: "In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country."[8]

Source

Relatively harmless in its actions. As described above it was an organization which focussed on the creation of Israel, and as reaction to growing antisemitism.
The difficulty around this, actually depends on whether or not you consider the creation of Israel by definition "rights to others land".
I don't, but i see the settlements build after the creation of Israel, outside of Israeli borders, as negative harmful Zionism.

@Terrorism, yes your right, I didn't mean to generalize the independence struggle as utilizing terrorist tactics as the method of choice.

@Dutch, yeah hence there were 4 Anglo-Dutch wars if i remember correctly. While relatively successful in favor of the Dutch, the last one is where the Brits pretty much sacked the Dutch "Empire". The last war actually started as the Dutch favored the American independence (most likely, just like the French, but screw the Brits over).