The Havok 2 in relation to HL2

[romeo0201]

I checked the Havok 2 website because I was interested in what features this amazing physics engine posessed.

For Characters:
New, localized ragdoll effects (for example, you can get a dead arm if you get shot in the shoulder) and bone level blending of key-framed animation with physics.
Classic ragdoll effects blended from key-framed animation sequences for more realistic secondary motion (for example, in death scenes) for your characters.
Effects for multiple character types, we support whatever number of limbs, tentacles or antennae your imagination demands
Breakable constraints for detachable limbs, so you can get as gory as you like
A fully integrated controller with tunable physical responses
Tools for ragdoll set-up for 3ds max and Maya so that you can easily create, tweak and test character joints within a familiar environment

For Vehicles
Core vehicle physics system and tuned car wheel friction model
Game specific modules for transmission, engine, suspension, gameplay, aerodynamics, steering
Breakable constraints for post-crash car debris
Support for multiple vehicle types including realistic racing cars, morotbikes, cartoon cars, tanks, monster trucks and articulated trucks and trailers
Stunt Driver Responses -- Havok vehicles can be combined with Havok Character Dynamics for realistic stunt driver responses

Some of the more interesting things above are the localized ragdoll effects in which you shot somone in the arm and their arm will go limp, if it is their firing arm the gun will drop. Also the detachable limbs seems interesting as well.

I emailed valve about those features and am awaiting their response , hopefully these features are in because they sound real cool.

 

[Neutrino]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?p=491018#post491018

Last post.

 

[romeo0201]

oh I thought Source used Havok 2 my bad. lolzorz

 

[ShinRa]

well they said they arent sure what theyre going to do. but they do seem to be sure they will be upgrading the physics, wheter it be upgrading to havoc 2, upgrading their own code, or BOTH. i vote both.

 

[Wildhound]

I vote they just upgrade their own code. I'd imagine the amount of customisation they've done would make Havok 2 a step backward in certain areas.

They've got Havok customised to HL2's need. Havok 2 wouldn't be.

 

[evil^milk]

It would've been REALLY cool if Valve would've implemented Havok 2. Let's hope that sometime in the future they'll add it. Detachable limbs... oh the possibilities

 

[Tarkus]

i know painkiller uses havok 2... but i dont know if they used all those things in the bodies and such..

EDIT- theoratically speaking, steam would allow us to update source from havok 1 to 2 with a simple download.. i think.. i mean, the whole point with steam/source is for it to be easily updatable right?

 

[romeo0201]

If you read on the Havok site it states a client can take the complete source for havok 2 and take the bits they need. So theoretically HL2 could purchase rights to Havok 2 and then take the new features and port them to their existing code.

Also I would like to see fluid dynamics added to the source engine as it becomes practical. If not source/hl2 then HL3 who knows what new techs they will need to wow us with HL3.

 

[ShinRa]

Wait wait wait....source is updatable...that just registered in my head.........so whatever source has when we get it can be updated with a simple download? So like if they allow higher poly models and such on hl2 for the higher end cards they can do it with a simple dl? Or they could update the physics engine and we get all the goods through a simple download?

 

[Tarkus]

Wait wait wait....source is updatable...that just registered in my head.........so whatever source has when we get it can be updated with a simple download? So like if they allow higher poly models and such on hl2 for the higher end cards they can do it with a simple dl? Or they could update the physics engine and we get all the goods through a simple download?

thats kinda what i said couple of posts up... i'm hoping for that to be real.... we shall see in a couple of years if this wish comes true

 

[romeo0201]

Yes Gabe has stated numerous times the engine is updatable. They have stated that they will be adding HDR if they cannot get it in before release

 

[Tarkus]

Yes Gabe has stated numerous times the engine is updatable. They have stated that they will be adding HDR if they cannot get it in before release

well, lets say valve stated some other things numerous times that didnt turn out to be quite...well...real

 

[Wildhound]

Wait wait wait....source is updatable...that just registered in my head.........so whatever source has when we get it can be updated with a simple download? So like if they allow higher poly models and such on hl2 for the higher end cards they can do it with a simple dl? Or they could update the physics engine and we get all the goods through a simple download?

That's the plan. They don't want to have to make another engine any time soon. They plan to, in their words, "keep Source up to date" by adding new technologies as they come available/are required.

For example HDR. As far as I know it won't be in the initial release, but they intend to add it later.

They also said the may add fluid/air dynamics at a later date. They didn't seem certain though.

In that way Source has a huge advantage over other engines out there. When Doom 3 and the other modern engines are out of date, Source might still look brand new.

 

[Alec_85]

They should really sell Havok 2.0 to Polyphony... 'Cause the handling/simulation in GT4: Prologue is completely bonkers. I bet the guys behind Havok could learn the programmers over @ Sony quite a lot

 

[Wildhound]

They should really sell Havok 2.0 to Polyphony... 'Cause the handling/simulation in GT4: Prologue is completely bonkers. I bet the guys behind Havok could learn the programmers over @ Sony quite a lot

Arg, does it suck? I've not played it yet, but I was looking forward to it.

 

[ShinRa]

Well then WTF! Ship the ****ing game! Update it as you see fit AFTER we get the goddamn game!

 

[Wildhound]

Well then WTF! Ship the ****ing game! Update it as you see fit AFTER we get the goddamn game!

Well they can add features to the engine, but the game itself still isn't ready to be shipped. I'm sure the majority of the fans wouldn't be too happy to play a game that was bug-ridden, poorly tested and lacked polish.

 

[romeo0201]

Yeah basically what they mean by updatable is with graphics, I am sure the main focus of their current play testing is to correct bugs and to improve gameplay mechanics dealing with the levels contained in the Singleplayer Game Experience.

 

[Alec_85]

Arg, does it suck? I've not played it yet, but I was looking forward to it.

Yes it sucks. Well it's good for a PS2 game of course but that's not very much to brag about I sincerely hope Prologue is a beta version of some sort of the whole game 'cause this is scary... Pop-ups everywhere, bad picture quality, weird steering & handling physics (when you turn left/right with your car, it LOOKS like it's the map that moves & not your car...)

If the whole game is anywhere near Prologue; Do not even test it Actually, I'd rather pay full prize (sp?) for HL-Rally instead.

But it might (might indeed) be nice if it's cheap, you have a home cinema plus a Internet connection plus an compatible steering wheel & some friends. That would probably rock no matter how ugly it is

 

[Apos]

Valve and Havok worked together on developing new stuff for HL2. No doubt this partnership will continue. So it's probably wrong to think of HL2 as running Havok 1 or Havok 2, because it's as heavily modified as the Quake engine was for HL1. Just because Havok 1 doesn't have something doesn't mean that HL2 won't. Though I'm pretty sure that as is, HL2 wont have detachable limbs or ragdoll-while-alive stuff. Doesn't really fit the game enough to make it important to work in at the moment, though I'm sure we'll see new stuff added.

 

[RoguePsi]

Yes, the engine will be updatable, and it'll work like an advanced patch really. It will be 'modular' meaning big chunks can be over-written or replaced when necessary. In theory, Valve can remove the physics system and replace it with Havok 2 a week after release if they desired.

 

[Aphal]

Valve has been doing the same thing with the HL1 engine, they added detail textures and stuff for HL1. But they made source specifically dynamic for steam so they could update whatever they want.

 

[Pitbul]

They should really sell Havok 2.0 to Polyphony... 'Cause the handling/simulation in GT4: Prologue is completely bonkers. I bet the guys behind Havok could learn the programmers over @ Sony quite a lot

the majority of GT fans would flame you till your screen was cooked. its quite the opposite of what Game sites amd magazines are saying about GT4's physical engine. most are saying GT4 will be the best racing game till GT5. the most realistic and the best looking. just because it doesn't have cartoony turning (like PGR, NFS, and every other racing game besides a selected few) does mean it sucks. its just GT4 has an actual realistic racing feel and actually takes skill to play it. it is developed by people who live and breath cars. plus your basing this on GT4 not the actual GT4, retards like you are the people i wish i could see say that face to face so i could slap some level of IQ into you.

 

[lonefox]

"retards like you are the people i wish i could see say that face to face so i could slap some level of IQ into you."

Whoa. Could someone send that though the decrypter and tell me the results?

 

[evil^milk]

Anyway, detachable limbs could be applied to zombies ^______^

 

[lans]

oh I thought Source used Havok 2 my bad. lolzorz

lolzorz, wtf?

The next absurd thing compared to "lolzmaoomg".


Those of you who say GT4 looks so great, check out Forza motorsport for xbox. If it's anything like they say it is - then it's going to kill it.

 

[lachy2k3]

Though I'm pretty sure that as is, HL2 wont have detachable limbs or ragdoll-while-alive stuff. Doesn't really fit the game enough to make it important to work in at the moment.

What about in the E3 2003 video when the zombie got chopped in half by the spinning blade in traptown. I would call that detachable limbs because he had no legs.

 

[Alec_85]

the majority of GT fans would flame you till your screen was cooked. its quite the opposite of what Game sites amd magazines are saying about GT4's physical engine. most are saying GT4 will be the best racing game till GT5. the most realistic and the best looking. just because it doesn't have cartoony turning (like PGR, NFS, and every other racing game besides a selected few) does mean it sucks. its just GT4 has an actual realistic racing feel and actually takes skill to play it. it is developed by people who live and breath cars. plus your basing this on GT4 not the actual GT4, retards like you are the people i wish i could see say that face to face so i could slap some level of IQ into you.

Dude. I'm not saying GT4 will suck. Prologue does that job excellent. I just hope for THEIR sake that GT4 will be A LOT different from Prologue. I'm not saying I know very much about cars (heck I'm 18 years old & I haven't started practising for getting an license yet...) but right now, it feels like it's not the car you drive, but instead the map itself. And if that's realistic then Sony & Polyphony can **** my ballz

I agree that GT4 has the potential to be the greatest racing game ever. Much due to the fact of it's online support (imo). But that's something ALL racing games have early on until the developers **** it up. Or perhaps I should say, they have potential to have potential to become great games

 

[ShinRa]

What about in the E3 2003 video when the zombie got chopped in half by the spinning blade in traptown. I would call that detachable limbs because he had no legs.

That doesn't mean the limbs are detachable that just means the zombie model has 1 or two break points, and that's just for zombies because it adds to who they are supposed to be, mindless idiots with enhanced human strength...or something....

 

[PowerLlama]

Those of you who say GT4 looks so great, check out Forza motorsport for xbox. If it's anything like they say it is - then it's going to kill it.

how can it kill it?? 2 different systems..... coexistence.......

 

[OCybrManO]

An arm with a "break point" is not the same as a "detachable limb"???

They are the same thing. A "break point" is just where two parts are able to "detach" or break free from each other.

 

[Crusader]

Yeah, if you want detatchable limbs, you just make more break points.

 

[Alec_85]

Would be cool if you could also brake their arms so they would go numb but not fall off. Maybe that's what they mean? Don't see why they couldn't do it though it probably wouldn't add anything to the experience.

 

[smwScott]

GT3 is the best racing game ever as of right now. This includes both visuals and gameplay. It has the most realistic physics and handling of any car game available (besides the possible exception of Driver, but that focuses on everyday cars, not racing). I have not played Prologue, but I highly doubt you know what you're talking about, because they couldn't have messed it up to the degree that you say it is. And you really shouldn't be talking about how realistic the games car physics are, as you don't drive yourself and are probably basing your perception of "realism" on other games.

As far as Havoc 2, the current highly modified version of Havok that Source uses seems to be more advanced and suited for an FPS game. It would probably be better for Valve to continue developing their own code or incorporating a few bits and pieces from Havok 2, although neither are really necessary. The game already has the most advanced physics system of any of the upcoming games.

 

[RoguePsi]

GT3 is the best racing game ever as of right now. This includes both visuals and gameplay. It has the most realistic physics and handling of any car game available (besides the possible exception of Driver, but that focuses on everyday cars, not racing).

Wrong! GT3 had amazing visuals when it came out (I was blown away by the replays) but they have since been surpassed. ToCA Race Driver 2 for instance, fully utilises DX9 and cannot be matched for level of detail. Racing-wise, I'd also rate it higher then GT3 as it successfully distinguishes MANY varying styles of racing, all with a unique feel.

 

[SpaceRain]

In that way Source has a huge advantage over other engines out there. When Doom 3 and the other modern engines are out of date, Source might still look brand new.

Well, they'd obviously need to catch up with the other engines first.

The other developers could just patch their engines too (lots of games can update themselves). So, why isn't John Carmack busy improving Quake 3 right now? Because he'd rather sell us Doom 3 and Quake 4. What makes you think Valve won't charge for Source 2 or Source Modifified or whatever you want to call it? And if they do charge, why is it any different than id Software charging for Doom 4?

 

[Cole]

You act as if Doom 3 is using the Q3's Engine..
Were all saying that source can be updated heavily through downloads, because it was specifically made that way...
I believe for HL they would have to rewrite the hole shading engine, but if the shading in HL2 becomes out of date, they can just tweak it with a small and simple update.



Valve wont charge for these updates because they want to keep this engine up to date, and when they make a new game there engine will still be up to date and they can just make the game onto the engine.

The diffrence between selling Source 2 vs Doom 4.
Simple, Doom 4 is a whole new game, whole new everything. Even if it keeps the same Doom 3 engine. Source 2 would just be an updated engine. Trust me, its easier to update and engine then to make a whole new game.

 

[romeo0201]

Havok 2 supports where arms go numb.

It is called localized ragdoll effects. I wonder if hl2 has this feature(would be sweet). Basically this makes hit-based animations for each limb numbed unnessecary by using the same animation just the limp arm is not animated but has ragdoll applied to it, though from reading the havok site, they have systems with rag-doll with keyframed animation allowing you to sort off give bodies specific death sequences, but in that each time it will be different slightly.

 

[noluck]

i like the way you could literally cut the guys into little cubes in soldier of fortune 2 .. but i guess i wont be seeing that in any game soon .. ****ing censorship

"We are live in Malta today where we are on the scene where some Halflife fan is going around wearing some orange armour thing using a manipulator to throw slicing disks at people.."

apparently my brain stops functioning at 5:30am

 

[Apos]

HL2 does not have that feature at the moment, I'm pretty sure of that. They currently ragdoll on death, but not prior to death. There are a lot of problems with this approach as far as consistency goes, and its no doubt a lot more resource intensive than they'd like. Something they could easily add later tho.