The Looniest of the Loony Left

there is the First Amendment. you are right, but when Howard Stern gets fined for a sex joke, the times, they are a changin, free speech isn't that free.

I agree. I read the affidavits in support of the FFC fine which contained what Howard Stern said. No i was expecting to be shocked. But, he was matter of factly, discussing the terms for some pretty kinky stuff engaged in by some persons. I don't think it was obscene and I don't think he should have been fined. But, at the end of the day, its cheaper for the station to pay the fine, then go all the way to the Supreme Court and have them um and ahh about what 'obscene' is.

That is right, in Australia there is no freedom of speech protected by a constitutional right. The older High Court (like maybe 10 years ago) found an implied freedom of political speech, ie, if there was meant to be a free electoral process, than you should be equally free to talk about it ( Theophanus' case'). Hmm - never much grabbed by implied rights..... but I don't know if its still good law, cause ive been overseas for about 4 years.

In addition, the right to remain silent has been eroded in Australia. In New South Wales, you must give a version of a motor accident you took place in. Also there are notices that the Taxation Office can send you which you must report to the ATO and 'answer all questions truthfully' - incriminating yourself hand over fist. I don't agree with this. There is also special legislation enabling National Crime Authority agents (a bit like a cross between the FBI and the CIA, no1 you want to get caught by) to interrogate you, detain you without charge to do so, and you must answer all questions - no right to silence.

I think that the right to speak, as well as not to speak, should be absolute rights and it is troubling to see the inroads into freedoms of speech and the right to remain silent. One could never remain silent at Royal Commissions (a bit like perhaps Senate INquiries in the USA, or Grand Jury investigations....but not quite) and they have a special historical role in our jurisprudence and I accept it. But the latest inroads into the right to silence, with the ATO and the national Crime Authority, I do not like.

Equally, on the side of the USA - is the troubling charges of lying to the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies. I think that such charges should be laid only in the circumstances where they lead to the wasting of public money significantly, ie I tell the police there was 747 Crash on the 101 - but there is no such thing. Because, the Supreme Court says, that the Police, can, lie repeteadly to the suspect - but the suspect must always tell the truth to the police? I find this troublesome. The interest in the accused having accurate information is perhaps more accute than that of the authorities. But, just my view.

Someone mentioned the Queen, but she has nothing to do with any of this anymore. The Australia Acts in 1984 mean that the UK Parliament or the Queen cant make laws and apply them to the Australia. ANd it was similtaneously passed as a law by both the UK Parliament and Australia, so pretty hard to say its not the law. The reason we keep the Queen, is because the constitution, drafted in 1901, is a house of cards without the Queen and the Governor-General. The constitution is a good document that has worked well - if it needs to be redrafted to remove the Queen, we will end up with a load of politcally correct sound byte drivel.......and messing with constitutions, shakes the foundations of our system. The Queen even if she wanted to, can neither make nor change law in Australia. Keeping her as the figurehead of state prevents the Constitution from falling apart and heads off mass division because of arguments over wholesale amendment. And if that troubles other people of the world (when really its a triumph of pragmatism over emotional calls for 'Australian Head of State' when if the Head of State does nothing, why does it matter who they are?) well - too bad. Not your call. Australia made its decision, and until it goes to a vote again. Thats no1s business but ours.

Calanen
 
* Finally, I have never characterized all the September 11 victims as "Nazis." What I said was that the "technocrats of empire" working in the World Trade Center were the equivalent of "little Eichmanns." Adolf Eichmann was not charged with direct killing but with ensuring the smooth running of the infrastructure that enabled the Nazi genocide. Similarly, German industrialists were legitimately targeted by the Allies.

Oh glad he cleared that up.... he's just fine after all.............
 
Calanen said:
Oh glad he cleared that up.... he's just fine after all.............
I love it, you say this guy is loony, I prove you wrong, and you post something that dumb.

Again, have you read the entire essay or are you just taking O'Reilly's word on it?

From your original post:

Among other things, he said those killed in the trade center were ''little Eichmanns,'' a reference to Adolf Eichmann.
This is a total lie since it is taken completely out of context as I pointed out. Anything else that you find loony about the essay? Because if you actually do read the essay he makes a very good point and it has nothing to do with bashing 9/11 victims as O'Reilly would like you to believe.
 
Also, what you quoted was again out of context, you republicans seem to love that. Here is the statement right after that which you forgot to quote and explains that comparison:

It is not disputed that the Pentagon was a military target, or that a CIA office was situated in the World Trade Center. Following the logic by which U.S. Defense Department spokespersons have consistently sought to justify target selection in places like Baghdad, this placement of an element of the American "command and control infrastructure" in an ostensibly civilian facility converted the Trade Center itself into a "legitimate" target. Again following U.S. military doctrine, as announced in briefing after briefing, those who did not work for the CIA but were nonetheless killed in the attack amounted to no more than "collateral damage." If the U.S. public is prepared to accept these "standards" when the are routinely applied to other people, they should be not be surprised when the same standards are applied to them.
 
so u call peopel dumb that dont agree with you, yes reason is strong in this one

and this is a response crafted for the media, as a "plz undertsand"

i can say a man having an affair is like bill clinton, my defense could then be that he is smooth as clinton.

see?
 
I would just like to add something. What really pisses me off is nobody in this so-called 'liberal media' will defend this guy. What he said was perfectly legitimate; simply because it plays the nazi card in the slightest way possible the media is too chicken-shit to even touch it. Media matters for America, an organization I admire, wouldn't even publish anything on it. Because of this he gets thousands of abusive phone calls and letters along with death threats. All this thanks to Bill O'Reilly who could careless as long as his FALSE attacks fit his agenda. And what makes me absolutely sick is people like you don't actually fact check this stuff or bother to read the actual essay before judging this guy. Instead of taking 10 minutes out of your way to do this you go around the internet and post lies about him, you send death threats, you send in hate mail, and you harass this guy simply because O'Reilly told you to (by you I mean people of your kind, you might not have participated in all of it). Sorry to rant like this but again, this makes me sick to my stomach especially since I know O'Reilly will continue to be your hero; no matter how many lives he destroys and no matter how many lies he tells.
 
Eg. said:
so u call peopel dumb that dont agree with you, yes reason is strong in this one

and this is a response crafted for the media, as a "plz undertsand"

i can say a man having an affair is like bill clinton, my defense could then be that he is smooth as clinton.

see?

Jesus Harold Christ, what are you on about?
 
No Limit said:
I would just like to add something. What really pisses me off is nobody in this so-called 'liberal media' will defend this guy. What he said was perfectly legitimate; simply because it plays the nazi card in the slightest way possible the media is too chicken-shit to even touch it. Media matters for America, an organization I admire, wouldn't even publish anything on it. Because of this he gets thousands of abusive phone calls and letters along with death threats. All this thanks to Bill O'Reilly who could careless as long as his FALSE attacks fit his agenda. And what makes me absolutely sick is people like you don't actually fact check this stuff or bother to read the actual essay before judging this guy. Instead of taking 10 minutes out of your way to do this you go around the internet and post lies about him, you send death threats, you send in hate mail, and you harass this guy simply because O'Reilly told you to (by you I mean people of your kind, you might not have participated in all of it). Sorry to rant like this but again, this makes me sick to my stomach especially since I know O'Reilly will continue to be your hero; no matter how many lives he destroys and no matter how many lies he tells.


If O'reilly is so wrong why doesn't Curchill's supporters and you gather up your cash and file a libel suit against him?

I will even help your cause. I will donate 100gb of data transfer/month if you will pursue that cause.
 
ok,

Churchhills response is a well crafted work for the media. hes only writing this for the people to eat up, and to make him look like a victem. he owuld never have released this if the media didnt turn it into a party. his words are empty and shallow and are only there after second thought of his first piece
 
Eg. said:
ok,

Churchhills response is a well crafted work for the media. hes only writing this for the people to eat up, and to make him look like a victem. he owuld never have released this if the media didnt turn it into a party. his words are empty and shallow and are only there after second thought of his first piece

Or maybe he's just defending himself from the sensationalist media's vilification of him.

I'm not going to say I agree with him, but there is more to what he said than most news sources are willing to show.
 
The guy is loony. You have not proved me wrong. Just that you agree with him..........says more about yourself, than any about him or me.
 
What is it with you and loony? Y'know? I mean, c'mon, it's like straight out of 50's sitcom humour. Loony left. Jesus. It's not catchy, it's not clever, it's just a fat generalisation that lets you blank people.

It doesn't help the debating a bit, so sort it out.
 
Calanen said:
The guy is loony. You have not proved me wrong. Just that you agree with him..........says more about yourself, than any about him or me.

When did he say he agreed with him?

In light of what this man really said, I think the media has blown this way out of proportion and have distorted this man's image into that of a terrorist-loving anti-American. You have not countered what No Limit posted. I'd be surprised if you even registered it into your brain. So far, you haven't done a good job of convincing me that he's a loony.
 
So far, you haven't done a good job of convincing me that he's a loony.
Again, that says a lot more about you, than about me....
 
Calanen, you haven't responded at all to No Limit's source, which, if you read it, puts a lot of this situation in perspective.

There are two sides to this story, and I suggest you read both before forming such a centred opinion.
 
It's yet again going into the realm of "authority" and "responsibility".

Just as Prince Harry should've known better than to have gone to a party as a Nazi officer, a university professor should've known better than to have likened 9/11 victims to a Nazi operative, no matter how mild (and indirect) the insinuation was- the world does wince, for a variety of reasons, whenever something even vaguely Nazi-related pops up into the public eye.

I do get the feeling that there's more than one agenda rattling away beneath the investigation, of course, but what's new?
 
CptStern said:
hasnt stopped any of you from sending me hate mail or insulting my character/family/what have you. In fact you and your cronies were warned the other day
You think I'd stoop so low as to send YOU hatemail? I reserve my angst for people deserving of it. But I'm sure you have a darling family stern :)

Anyway, I have no particular problem with Churchill. Fact is, he knew what would happen when he published this nonsense, and he did it anyway. Its not just a conservative knee-jerk reaction to it: everybody and their mother hates him, and whether or not theres truth in his words or not he still has to suffer the consequences. I get the feeling this professor doesnt know how offended people get when they hear anything likened to "Nazi". Its unfair for the innocent victims to be likened to anything. I'd accept collateral damage, but not Nazis.

@Apos: Whatever your opinion is, there is simply less violence when conservatives get together, and more violence when liberals get together. You so rarely hear of conservatives using "disruptive" means. You mentioned 1 group, I didnt even have to look for one because its in the damn article. Its everywhere. Every Iraq/Bush protest I've been to (and this is in Seattle) has never been much about the issue, more an atmosphere of violence. Theres always police there, and people always get arrested. Blame it on "anarchists" if you want, but that it so pathetic to blame your own hypocritical violence on other, greater liberals.
 
I read what the guy had to say, it just doesn't change my opinion of what he said. It's self evident (or at least shoud be) that comparing office workers in the World Trade Center to high ranking members the SS that coordinated the Nazi death camps, is loony tune realm.

Its just too silly to go blow by blow. Its like arguing with people who believe in astrology. Your starting point means that whatever you say is a hopeless adventure.

For all of the spin and media backpedalling - he compared, the people who worked in the World Trade Centre, to Eichman, ie they are 'little Eichmans' - putting to one side anything else. This is nuts. Who is Eichman u ask, is he one of the clerks in the Nazi regime? Not quite.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/

So, comparing office workers, the chefs in the restaurant on the roof, the port authority guys stationed at the world trade center, the many brokers, lawyers, to the guy who coordinated Nazi death camps is just nuts. Let me spell it out for you, N-U-T-S. That's all I'm gonna say - whatever spin you want to put onto how witty, erudite, and learned the Professor's comments were.
 
Calanen said:
I read what the guy had to say, it just doesn't change my opinion of what he said. It's self evident (or at least shoud be) that comparing office workers in the World Trade Center to high ranking members the SS that coordinated the Nazi death camps, is loony tune realm.
Loony tune theme.
Quoting totally out of context.
Loony tune theme.
Taking a man who is trying to spread a message that continually breaking international law, torturing and killing innocents, will result in nations getting p*ssed off, and dragging this man into the realm of death threats and hate mail from a bunch of people who have not bothered to read things in context, like you, yes, and who just read it in right-wing propaganda papers, or heard O'Reilly say it.
L.T.T

Its just too silly to go blow by blow. Its like arguing with people who believe in astrology. Your starting point means that whatever you say is a hopeless adventure.
Yes, if your starting point is that the loony left are forever saying horrible things and need degrading, then no doubt your starting point will firmly root you in the 'loony left' frame of mind even after clear evidence against the fact materialises on necessary background checks.

For all of the spin and media backpedalling - he compared, the people who worked in the World Trade Centre, to Eichman, ie they are 'little Eichmans' - putting to one side anything else. This is nuts. Who is Eichman u ask, is he one of the clerks in the Nazi regime? Not quite.
For all the spin... *sighs*. In explaining that terrorists will attack if we continue morally and politically incorrect policies abroad, the example he quotes being the killing of 500'000 innocent Iraqis, he says that to the terrorists, the people working in places like the WTC will be targetted just like we started people working for the Nazi regime. Through the terrorists eyes, if we don't stop, will carry on. The man's trying to stop terrorism and all you can do is jump at his throat for things taken straight out of context, perhaps just because doing things his way is not on the right's agenda.

So, comparing office workers, the chefs in the restaurant on the roof, the port authority guys stationed at the world trade center, the many brokers, lawyers, to the guy who coordinated Nazi death camps is just nuts. Let me spell it out for you, N-U-T-S. That's all I'm gonna say - whatever spin you want to put onto how witty, erudite, and learned the Professor's comments were.
Your constant use of the word loony and nuts does little to make anyone respect your side of the debate.

Saying that anybody on the left of the political spectrum is mentally insane suggests a lack of reasoning, and ability to stray from a well nailed in right-wing belief system.
 
Btw your hero Churchill has been involved in a little art fraud as well....

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001596.htm

Allegations of purjury:

http://hal.lamar.edu/~BROWNTF/Churchill1.htm

Eichmann on those who died in the WTC:
'More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it. '

These were just people going to work. And some academic likens them to one of the greatest orchestrators of mass murder in human history. And you are still defending this. Its just through the looking glass.

I dont care what context you put it into. It cannot be spun away. That statement is just nuts. And as for me saying all the people on the left spectrum of politics are nuts, I do not. I make the distinction between the left and the 'loony left.' This guy is as loony as they come. And if you think he's great more power to you. But pretty much, no1 else does.....
 
Calanen said:
These were just people going to work. And some academic likens them to one of the greatest orchestrators of mass murder in human history. And you are still defending this. Its just through the looking glass.

I dont care what context you put it into. It cannot be spun away. That statement is just nuts. And as for me saying all the people on the left spectrum of politics are nuts, I do not. I make the distinction between the left and the 'loony left.' This guy is as loony as they come. And if you think he's great more power to you. But pretty much, no1 else does.....

The above two links don't relate to the subject here at all, he copied a painting, big deal, he believes that the US may have started a smallpox epidemic, big deal.

Your quote I'm interested in though, could you provide a source?
 
Er sorry - i thought som1 had already put up the link to his whole essay, but if not - here it is http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html

Im taking exception with what he said about the people in the World Trade Center only which was what the whole thread was about. I don't necessarily agree with the rest of his arguments - but I don't take exception with them being made. Only this loony comment.

The fact that he plagiarises art and tries to pass it off as original work (and native American art, when he claims to be a native american. ) and manufacturers allegations of america using forms of primitive biological warfare - when it just never happened is a 'big deal' I think. Certainly goes to showing what sort of person this guy is. Credibility - less than zero.
 
Calanen said:
Er sorry - i thought som1 had already put up the link to his whole essay, but if not - here it is http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html

Im taking exception with what he said about the people in the World Trade Center only which was what the whole thread was about. I don't necessarily agree with the rest of his arguments - but I don't take exception with them being made. Only this loony comment.

The fact that he plagiarises art and tries to pass it off as original work (and native American art, when he claims to be a native american. ) and manufacturers allegations of america using forms of primitive biological warfare - when it just never happened is a 'big deal' I think. Certainly goes to showing what sort of person this guy is. Credibility - less than zero.

OK, the quote you show is sketchy to say the least. It's certainly not put very nicely, but it does have a point behind it, one that O'Reilley seems to have totally missed. That to the terrorists these people were very much a part of the system that wreaks havoc on their country.
I agree up to an extent, but I still think he's playing the 'and so they're not innocent' card too highly - and I can understand you're being angry at it. It is, as far as making an important message goes, loony.

Out of interest, what do you make of the actual point of his argument? The idea that events like 9/11 are simply natural reactions to horrific actions being laid on them by the west. Do you believe that killing more people will help reduce terrorism? Or that a change in the way we go about things will reap better rewards.

...or shall we smother the debate by talking about how he does it with little consideration to 9/11 victims; an issue no doubt, but certainly not the primary one.
 
* I am not a "defender"of the September 11 attacks, but simply pointing out that if U.S. foreign policy results in massive death and destruction abroad, we cannot feign innocence when some of that destruction is returned. I have never said that people "should" engage in armed attacks on the United States, but that such attacks are a natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy. As Martin Luther King, quoting Robert F. Kennedy, said, "Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable."

* This is not to say that I advocate violence; as a U.S. soldier in Vietnam I witnessed and participated in more violence than I ever wish to see. What I am saying is that if we want an end to violence, especially that perpetrated against civilians, we must take the responsibility for halting the slaughter perpetrated by the United States around the world. My feelings are reflected in Dr. King's April 1967 Riverside speech, where, when asked about the wave of urban rebellions in U.S. cities, he said, "I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed . . . without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today — my own government."

Oh, well crap, he's still calling them Eichmans and he still justified there deaths on those such grounds.

Further, we have finally found our victims mentality. Not exactly making him look good, but it definately explains what made him "tic".
 
The above two links don't relate to the subject here at all, he copied a painting, big deal, he believes that the US may have started a smallpox epidemic, big deal.

Yea, when it involves approaching you about a problem, you shrug it off and attempt to turn it around. [As seen here]

However, his point is legitimate. You dont have to read this, so scroll down and ignore - [as many usually do in these threads].

His point, folks, was that this Professor cannot claim to be a hero, nor a liberated mind, when he is stealing intellectual property of others. Now, some may have said he was'nt a hero -- we are'nt judging the contexts of what people said directly; but moreso by what they imply.

The idea that events like 9/11 are simply natural reactions to horrific actions being laid on them by the west.

9/11 was not perpetrated by the west; Saudi Arabia does not border Texas.

Do you believe that killing more people will help reduce terrorism? Or that a change in the way we go about things will reap better rewards.

If a "people" arm themselves, they become a "formation"; or militia. Were not just haplessly killing random people over there -- we're killing Insurgents whose weapons are stripped off of them and deported to Guardsmen or Coalition armories.

an issue no doubt, but certainly not the primary one.

Certainly is the primary one -- it was the whole point of this thread ...
 
The thing about 911 - is that some, including Churchill try to portray it as the colloboration of the Middle East striking back at the USA. Its not. It is of a small group of sick inviduals. The Northern Alliance are afghanis as well, and had no part (nor would they) in driving a passenger plane into a building full of office workers.

The overwhelming bulk of people in the Middle East are not involved in terrorism. They dont vote for the people who purport to represent them.

So I don't see hijacking passenger aircraft and flying them into buildings with office workers in them (or even the Pentagon, what did the people on the plane that was hijacked have to do with any of this?) as legitimate criticism of foreign policy. Its just terrorism......

And I would expend whatever resources we could, to hunt down and kill, all individuals involved in, or giving aid to those terrorists. And I will help if I am called on to do so.
 
Sorry guys, I haven´t read the whole thread yet.
But I have to say, the title isn´t right.
We allready discussed his essay once. And I´m glad, that then I interpreted it very similar like he explains it itself:


"I have never said that people "should" engage in armed attacks on the United States, but that such attacks are a natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy."

Anything against it?
Actually, the foreign policy of US one could call evil policy. Has someone counted, how many poeple died because of this policy???
If all victims wordlwide united and were seeking revenge, there will be a very hard time fot the USA I think.
So just be happy, its not so.


"If someone were to ask me, 'Do you feel sorrow for the victims of 9-11,' of course I do," he said. "Let's begin with the children. Yes, they were innocent. And I mourn them. But they were not more innocent than those half-million Iraqi children."

Smth. to contradict?


"Churchill said he did not mean to say the World Trade Center "technocrats" were Nazis but were, like Eichmann, bureaucrats who participated in an immoral system.

He did not necessarily agree with the goals of the Nazis with regard to the Jews, but he performed his functions brilliantly," Churchill said. "This is Eichmann: He's integral. The Holocaust could not have happened without him.

Churchill said he shares some guilt because he participates in the system he accuses of wrongdoing: "I could do more. I'm complicit. I'm not innocent."

Btw, Churchill, Eichmann and Those 9/11 Technocrats
http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/nimmo02062005/

"According to an article published by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, five of “Adolph Eichmann’s Nazi assistants were recruited and employed by the Central Intelligence Agency after World War II, according to recently declassified intelligence documents” obtained by the National Security Archive through an FOIA request. “The newly-revealed documents are based on internal investigations in the CIA’s history department,” explains Yossi Melman of Haaretz. “The agency has steadfastly refused to make the documents public for fear they would cause embarrassment.”



"Churchill said he was referring to "technocrats" who participate in what he calls repressive American policies around the world. He said those include Iraqi trade sanctions after the first Gulf War that have been blamed for the deaths of 500,000 children."

Hmm, did you really think about this figure? It not just a number, some statstics. If US apologize by the parents, how many their will say sorry to? Not 5, 50, or 500. Wasn´t it also genocide? Not on jews, but on Iraqis?
Btw, it is just one of many crimes done by the USA...

I have an impression, that many people who live in the USA, don´t want hear anything, what disturbs their great feeling being American or smth. like this. I really don´t undestand why some of truth is so disturbing American people. Maybe it´s not to nice to know that American foreign policy is criminal?
I think, it´s great that there are some people like Churchill or Moore.

"WARD CHURCHILL: There was a Central Intelligence Agency office. There were Defense Department offices. There was, I believe, an F.B.I. facility. All of which fit the criteria of the bombing target selection utilized by the Pentagon. If it was fair to bomb such targets in Baghdad, it would be fair for others to bomb such targets in New York. That's what I'm saying. I don't think it's fair to bomb such targets in Baghdad, therefore I reject New York, but so long as United States is applying those rules out in the world, it really has no complaint when those rules are applied to it. "

The USA and their double standard policy! The huge evil they do to others is OK, but a bit evil done to them is a catastrophe.
Wars, but on foreign territory!!! As you are in war, why then not on YOUR territory?!!!!
Millions of victims of other nations are OK, but some of your victims, oh no!
It is hypocritical and disgusting, this double standard policy!!! :flame:
Actually what is it? Isn´t it a bit like in the Nazi time? Life of an American is more valuable than life of a Vietnamese, Iraqi, Latino, Iranian etc.?

Oh God, some say Churchill has to apologize?! Why they don´t say, the USA MUST APOLOGIZE! FOR ALL EVIL THEY HAVE DONE AND STILL ARE DOING!
Btw, I saw a very horrible picture of an Iraqi child who died in War o Iraq. I have seen many other pictures, but this picture is still tracing me. Hmm, ok, there was a warning, the picture material migth be shocking... It´s a pity, that it is not obligatory for Americans to see such pictures every day...

I DON`T THINK, AMERICAN ARE SO INNOCENT. You pay taxes to finance wars etc.
Of cource, as an individual it is very difficult anyway to have some impact on the state policy. That is what the government is very happy of!

OK, but maybe it´s possible to join some movements or smth. like this...
 
Churchill can say he was referring to technocrats that make US policy, but thats not what he said. When u read what he said, and its posted above, all your stuff is just backpedalling, and 'it was out of context'.....

Churchill should either have the balls to say, yeah i said it to hell with you, OR, i made a mistake im sorry. But all this wishy washy, post 500 words of text to say away and reinterpret what the obvious plain english meaning of what he said is.

All this anti-American stuff - America is evil. Its just irrational. If you say, I disagree with this foreign policy or whatever fine. But America is not evil, and not even close, nor are its people.
 
Calanen said:
So far, you haven't done a good job of convincing me that he's a loony.

Again, that says a lot more about you, than about me....

Here's an idea! How about you take your snide remarks and shove 'em!

And yes, I admit that I've stooped to a low.
 
Calanen said:
Churchill can say he was referring to technocrats that make US policy, but thats not what he said. When u read what he said, and its posted above, all your stuff is just backpedalling, and 'it was out of context'.....

Churchill should either have the balls to say, yeah i said it to hell with you, OR, i made a mistake im sorry. But all this wishy washy, post 500 words of text to say away and reinterpret what the obvious plain english meaning of what he said is.

All this anti-American stuff - America is evil. Its just irrational. If you say, I disagree with this foreign policy or whatever fine. But America is not evil, and not even close, nor are its people.

american foreign policy is definately evil ..sorry but it's true ..there's just far too many incidents of assisnation, overthrowing democratic governments, supporting dictators and like to conclude otherwise. if you were to actually LOOK at the facts ...Niceragua, El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Panama, Congo etc etc etc you'd draw the same conclusion


the US did smuggle former Nazi's into the US after the war ..google operation Paperclip
 
Don't worry, it gets me down after arguing in circles for a while
 
Calanen said:
For all of the spin and media backpedalling - he compared, the people who worked in the World Trade Centre, to Eichman, ie they are 'little Eichmans' - putting to one side anything else. This is nuts. Who is Eichman u ask, is he one of the clerks in the Nazi regime? Not quite.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/

So, comparing office workers, the chefs in the restaurant on the roof, the port authority guys stationed at the world trade center, the many brokers, lawyers, to the guy who coordinated Nazi death camps is just nuts. Let me spell it out for you, N-U-T-S. That's all I'm gonna say - whatever spin you want to put onto how witty, erudite, and learned the Professor's comments were.
This quote tells me you drank the Kool-Aid from O'Reilly and have absolutely no regard for the facts. Let me explain, in the first explaination I posted I bolded the following part:

* It should be emphasized that I applied the "little Eichmanns" characterization only to those described as "technicians." Thus, it was obviously not directed to the children, janitors, food service workers, firemen and random passers-by killed in the 9-1-1 attack. According to Pentagon logic, were simply part of the collateral damage. Ugly? Yes. Hurtful? Yes. And that's my point.

The Eichmanns remark is a little out of line but he puts it in there to add emphesis at how bad our US foreign policy is. You might disagree with this point but again, he is not calling all victims Nazis as O'Reilly would like you to believe. Eichmann was did not kill any Jews; however, he was directly reponsible for keeping the nazi policies in place. So what he is saying the CIA and the Pentagon are little Eichmanns as they are the driving force behind Bush. So yes, he is comparing Bush to a nazi; I do not personally agree with this but he is hardly the first one to make this reference ( http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm as an example). There have been countless of others that called Bush a nazi, I do not agree with this but they are hardly these traitors O'Reilly made this guy to be.


Your second quote is interesting because it is exactly the same as O'Reilly read it on the air. Let me put that quote in a little more context for you:

. To the extent that any of them were unaware of the costs and consequences to others of what they were involved in – and in many cases excelling at – it was because of their absolute refusal to see. More likely, it was because they were too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
He is talking about the american peoples refusal to actually address what is going on in this world and around them. We are all so busy talking in our cell phones and enjoying our life of luxury we could careless what goes on in the world and this is the case. So what he is saying is the WTC victims knew the CIA was there but didn't care as they didn't think we would ever be attacked; as all americans did. The big point there is that all Americans, not just WTC victims, are arrogant and don't want to address what is going on in this world as it doesn't really affect them until it slaps you directly in the face.

His comments are a little out there, yes, but hardly loony. It is no more loony than a conservative saying "they attacked us because of our freedom". Your loony remarks are getting out of hand and you will apply them to any one that disagrees with you. But like I said before, you made your judgement by simply listening to O'Reilly; you didn't actually read it yourself. Then I point out he is not appling the Eichmann comment to the civillians but to the people that participate in what he calls a corrupt government. To make sure you didn't miss this I put it in bold. Yet, you completely missed it as if you didn't actually care what this guys says, you already made up your mind. So this my friend is loony in my opinion.

Whatever your opinion is on US foreign policy he has a right to disagree without being harrassed by the 'loony' right. What O'Reilly did was take him completely out of context, didn't publish Churchill's statement fully but again took it out of context, and as a result this guys career is in the shitter. And like I said, you will continue to admire O'Reilly no matter how many lies he tells or how many people he hurts in the process of raising his ratings (I pointed out many examples of this on this message board). This is the same as Bodacious who admitted Rush Limbaugh is a fraud and a liar yet he continues to listen to him and quote him in his sig. This type of dishonest partisanship makes me sick to my stomach and you are participating in it.
 
Calanen said:
All this anti-American stuff - America is evil. Its just irrational. If you say, I disagree with this foreign policy or whatever fine. But America is not evil, and not even close, nor are its people.
Point me where he said the American people are evil, I must have missed it.

As for the government not being evil, well, a lot of people seem to disagree with you. Are they all traitors or 'loony' and should this guy be harassed for having that opinion.?
 
Bodacious said:
If O'reilly is so wrong why doesn't Curchill's supporters and you gather up your cash and file a libel suit against him?

I will even help your cause. I will donate 100gb of data transfer/month if you will pursue that cause.
Why do you even post in my threads, your remarks get worse with each post you make? Can you show me one example of a commentator lying about someone then that person suing and actually winning. I, unlike you, live in the real world and know this would never work with the multi-million dollar lawyers Fox has. As for your 100 GB bandwdith, no thanks, I have a few TB I'm not currently using.
 
CptStern said:
american foreign policy is definately evil ..sorry but it's true ..there's just far too many incidents of assisnation, overthrowing democratic governments, supporting dictators and like to conclude otherwise. if you were to actually LOOK at the facts ...Niceragua, El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Panama, Congo etc etc etc you'd draw the same conclusion


the US did smuggle former Nazi's into the US after the war ..google operation Paperclip
I hope O'Reilly isn't reading this board or you will have a bunch of 'loony' right wing extremists showing up at your door with death threats.
 
I read what you said No Limit - and have nothing more to add, and think you have added nothing further either.

Ill say it long and loud, march on the street waving placards that say it 'Ward Churchill is a LOOONY!'
 
No Limit said:
I hope O'Reilly isn't reading this board or you will have a bunch of 'loony' right wing extremists showing up at your door with death threats.

heh I already have a handful knocking on my virtual door, no skin off my back ..actually I'd like O Reilly to show up on my door, ...I'd like to give him a piece of my mind (the business end of my boot as well) :E
 
Calanen said:
Ill say it long and loud, march on the street waving placards that say it 'Ward Churchill is a LOOONY!'

And I'll say that you look foolish and dumb.
 
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