The New Weapon(s)

[flamingdts]

Portal gun has the biggest chance of appearance as we all already know.

However, the SMG requires a DAMN big upgrade. I use the shotgun 70% of the time since they're the most effective against the bugs, and close up encounters with the combine.

The AR needs more ammo space, it runs out way too quickly.

They should also do something with the crowbar, give it special uses. Like using it to break open doors, using it to grab certain things. Hell, make it more effective against headcrabs.

 

[ríomhaire]

The crowbar is one hit kill against headcrabs.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I reckon there should be a snark bomb; basically an egg sack that holds about 100 snarks. When thrown on the floor, the snark spew out in all directions.

Swarm AI has been done before (L4D as reference), so a creature with less polygons, fewer animation sequences and a dumber AI can only be a good thing.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Obviously you don't use the AR2 agaisnt anything else than Overwatch and Elite, who use the weapon so that you can get ammo again quickly. No need of a fix there.

SMG is okay at medium range (agaisnt moving targets in specific), and it has a grenade launcher. Using the grenade launcher against manhacks is sweet.

Crowbar needs no fix. It's the best weapon agaisnt headcrabs and barnacles. It also does pretty well agaisnt most zombies and overwatch/civil protection.

 

[ríomhaire]

But would require more effects (snarks exploding)

 

[NamelessHenchman]

I want the barnacle gun back. And could we this time grab people and ragdolls with it :3 ?

 

[Sheepo]

I wouldn't be suprised if you can aquire the Gravity Gun on the Borialis, however, unless they're careful, it could break the game. *Shrug*

What?

Portal gun has the biggest chance of appearance as we all already know.

Do we?

However, the SMG requires a DAMN big upgrade. I use the shotgun 70% of the time since they're the most effective against the bugs, and close up encounters with the combine.

The AR needs more ammo space, it runs out way too quickly.

They should also do something with the crowbar, give it special uses. Like using it to break open doors, using it to grab certain things. Hell, make it more effective against headcrabs.

Valve's goal is not to make all the weapons as powerful as possible. If they wanted to make the game too easy to be fun, they would give us a supercharged gravity gun every game.

I reckon there should be a snark bomb; basically an egg sack that holds about 100 snarks. When thrown on the floor, the snark spew out in all directions.

Swarm AI has been done before (L4D as reference), so a creature with less polygons, fewer animation sequences and a dumber AI can only be a good thing.

I loved the snarks, but I can't imagine them being introduced during Ep. 3 and making any sense. Converted or nuetral manhacks is the best alternative I can think of.

 

[Dr.Freeman]

If you ask me, i would like some kind of good sniper in the EP3.

 

[nipples]

We should get a lightsaber to replace the crowbar...because that would be awesome!

 

[Sheepo]

If you ask me, i would like some kind of good sniper in the EP3.

Gah. The day I enjoy a sniper rifle more than a crossbow is the day Allah does a backflap while firing dual pistols.

 

[nipples]

Allah does that all the time.

The crossbow is just so entertaining, only pussies snipe.

 

[Sledgehammer]

The crossbow against headcrabs or manhacks is the most "sweet destruction" entertainment you can possibly get.

 

[nipples]

I usually just use my gravity gun on them.

 

[Dr.Freeman]

Allah does that all the time.

The crossbow is just so entertaining, only pussies snipe.

LOL then I'm pussy?

 

[DEATH eVADER]

The Javelin; because lets face it, the Laser Guided RPG was never going to cause much damage to a strider

 

[G(ordon)-man]

Oh hell Javelin would be cool.

 

[lord_raken]

Yea the Javelin can turn a main battle tank into metal confetti! I have seen it work. one hit from that and a strider would be dead with not questions asked. the only problem is that it is a one shot deal and cant be reloaded.

 

[Sheepo]

LOL then I'm pussy?

Normally I'm not enough of a dick to call some one a pussy just because I don't like them. But I find you very annoying and you seem unable to improve the content of your posts. So yes. You are a pussy.

 

[Reflex]

A cheaper plastic replica of the crowbar.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

A sledgehammer

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Snarks. Chumtoads as Xen fauna bait to use against enemies. Stuka bats as aerial Snark-like weapons. Your dick.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

An AK-47 would serve no point whatsoever. The weapons in HL2 are highly tailored, very different from one another, and all serve a specific situation. It actually pisses me off in games when there are a dozen different rifles/sub machine guns/whatever, all with very minor differences, and you really have no idea which one is better. It's pointless.

QFT.

Huge rant warning: This isn't directed at anyone in particular, obviously, just at all the posts I've seen all over the place calling for practically every firearm in the common consciousness (read: the ones popular in CS) to be included in Episode Three.

If I see one more post raving on about how 'boring' all of the current weapons are and demand that Valve add an AK47 or a sniper rifle or whatever, it'll be rage tiem.

If Valve add any new weapons in Episode Three, I want them to be something unique or at least memorable. Something that does something none of the current weapons do, and does it with style. Half-Life does not need half a dozen different pistols, shotguns, or submachine guns, and it definitely doesn't need a sniper rifle. Do I need to explain why?

• The crossbow, which is capable of flinging red hot rebars which skip off of surfaces if they hit them at a sharp angle and skewer targets to walls, is far more awesome than any sniper rifle could hope to be. The crossbow is a unique weapon, while every first person shooter and their dog has a bloody sniper rifle. It is also -- despite the drop over long distances -- capable of hitting targets at extreme ranges, not that you even spend more than two minutes total fighting at those kinds of ranges.
  
• The existing shotgun, as almost anyone can agree, is a very capable weapon. Yes, the developers could add a rusty, two-shot sawed-off and a semi-automatic Striker just for kicks, but what would be the point? The sawed-off would never find favour over the existing shotgun for obvious reasons, and the Striker would just be overpowered.
  
• Same with the pistols, there are only two pistols in Half-Life 2, the 9x19mm USP Match and the .357 Magnum Colt Python. Polar opposites. On the one hand we have high capacity, high rate of fire, reasonably accurate, low stopping power. On the other we have low capacity, low rate of fire, very accurate and very powerful. What could you add that wouldn't be functionally identical to one or the other, or occupy a pointless middle ground between the two?
  
• There's a reason there's only one melee weapon, the crowbar. Valve could add an ice axe, a knife, a wrench, a piece of wood with nails in the end of it, a cane, a pool cue, but why? What would be the point? Sure, all of those exist, but why should they be modeled, textured and animated when something cooler and more iconic that does the same thing already exists?

Point is, the existing weapons serve their purposes. And if you're bored with them, look around for new skins or sounds, there's always FPSBanana. Anyway, adding new weapons that do the same things as the existing ones is just a waste of time and shows poor design philosophy to boot. During Half-Life 2's development, Valve toyed with the idea of having a lot of different weapons, and at some point even had it set up so you could only carry so many and would have to drop one if you wanted to carry a different one. And they came up with a shitload of weapons to choose from.

And they scrapped that and went with the old-school 'you can carry all of your weapons at once' form of inventory management for a number of good reasons. Because they decided that it's better to have a well tuned set of a dozen or so weapons, each with a specific purpose, each useful in a different way, than to have two or three dozen different weapons, many of which are very similar. Say for example that they'd done what they originally intended and gone with the 'you can only carry # weapons' way of doing things and included three different assault rifles:

* AK47
* OICW
* Pulse Rifle

Then, not only would you only have to choose which one you want to use (you wouldn't use 3 of 4 weapon slots to carry 3 weapons that all do the same thing, would you?). Not only that, unless they made the ammunition standardized so they all used the same type (which would make the arsenal even less realistic), they'd have to scatter three types of assault rifle ammo around, and you'd have to always be on the lookout for the right type of ammunition for the weapon you're carrying. As if properly balancing supplies from map to map wasn't horrendously difficult already. And all just to add a little variety? Give me a break.

If Valve do add new weapons, they should be additions, not replacements. Look to Half-Life's weapons for inspiration. I'm talking things like the Tau Cannon (it was awesome in Half-Life, and only half-heartedly included in Half-Life 2 as a vehicle-mounted weapon with unimpressive special effects), and snarks (more useful than they're usually given credit for).

Then there's the SLAM, seen in Half-Life 2 DM, it may not be all that original to add it to Episode Three now, but I suggest it anyway because of its utility, I love the way it combines the uses of the Satchel Charge and Laser Tripmine of Half-Life into one weapon. In a way I can understand it not being included in any of the games so far, because there aren't a lot of gameplay scenarios in which you *need* to use such a weapon defensively. But, picture this, you're on the run from a large number of enemies (Overwatch Soldiers, perhaps?), you're evading them through a series of dark, misty, interconnected tunnels. You're outnumbered and outgunned, but you have SLAMs. You have to set traps to slow your pursuers down. So you place a barrel in a doorway, attach a SLAM to it, facing your side of the door so your pursuers wouldn't even see the laser, drop another SLAM not far away to extend the reach of the blast, and move on.

Okay, it's not perfect, I can see a lot of problems with that rough draft already. For example, getting the AI to recognize traps so the player would have to be sneaky like that would be difficult. But that's beside the point, the point is that it's different. It's not just another type of hand grenade, it has a unique application.

 

[jet_porkins]

I didn't read that, and I probably won't until midday tomorrow, but I must say that's one organized-looking post you've got there.

 

[the cow says moo]

That was a hell of a long post.

 

[bbson john]

I want some more futurist weapon. This should establish Half-Life's own futurist art style.

 

[Apiary]

we are just one free man.We cant have all fancy wepons...its crisis on earth

 

[chimpmunk]

Apparently, some people believe that everything Valve does is perfect, and that critizing their work is "ranting", "whining" or being "a pussy" (great, how mature of you. Maybe some day you'll see vaginas as something positive? And even if you turn out homosexual, which is all cool with me anyways, remember that you still came out of a vagina).

But the Original Half life games had much more weapons than Half life 2 (and what about Op4? It had so many weapons yet it was so good).
The ak-47 would be awesome because it's became iconic of the "other Half life 2" that they scrapped (for those who wonder, it's in Raising the bar). A comeback weapon from Half life would be welcome also and would bring back a little bit of a classic arsenal.

Let's face it, after Half Life 2, Ep1 and Ep2, fighting the same 4-5 ennemies using the same few weapons over and over again in levels that all use the same textures and overall design can get pretty stale (oh, Xen, where are you?). That's why we need more variety in Ep3, because otherwise, why not just play the other games over and over again, it's the same thing.
So that's why I hope Ep3 will bring more variety.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I still think Ep. 3 needs a proper long-range weapon, whether it be a rifle or railgun or whatever else Valve chooses to make it.

The crossbow just doesn't cut it, if the enemy moves even one step(or stops/changes their speed if you're trying to lead them) after you've fired, then you're sure to miss because it takes approximately 30 years for the shot to reach them if they're more than a few meters away. I use it more as a slightly crappier alternative to the Magnum(which is the closest thing HL2 has to a proper sniping weapon IMO) than its intended purpose.

Apparently, some people believe that everything Valve does is perfect, and that critizing their work is "ranting", "whining" or being "a pussy" (great, how mature of you. Maybe some day you'll see vaginas as something positive? And even if you turn out homosexual, which is all cool with me anyways, remember that you still came out of a vagina).

I'll have to agree with you on that point...I love hl2.net and its community, but there are quite a few users on here that seem to hold Valve's work as perfect and sacred, and so suggesting any major change to the established formula is grounds for getting your ass flamed off. Of course, if Valve actually implement something similar to these suggestions later on, then they'll immediately accept it, because there's no questioning the infinite wisdom of Valve.

I'm sure if I were to describe HL2 or the Episodes' story or gameplay here before they were announced, then I would be the target of endless flames.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

Yes, Valve has gotten itself a cult status with HL franchise, same like Blizzard and some other companies. And coming to a HL2 forum to criticize it must be the wrongest idea ever.

 

[Apocalypse89]

There's a difference between insulting HL2 just to troll, and pointing out flaws or suggesting new things that you think might make a good game even better. The users I'm talking about react to all criticism as if it were the former.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Apparently, some people believe that everything Valve does is perfect, and that critizing their work is "ranting", "whining" or being "a pussy" (great, how mature of you. Maybe some day you'll see vaginas as something positive? And even if you turn out homosexual, which is all cool with me anyways, remember that you still came out of a vagina).

Now who's being mature? :cheese:

I never said Valve's decisions should be taken as gospel, or that all of them are good. What I said was the majority of suggestions for additions to the series' arsenal show no comprehension of proper game design whatsoever. All of the points I made in my post still stand. Especially the one about the inventory. If you couldn't carry every weapon in the game at once, it would make sense to have multiple weapons in each class (more than one pistol, more than one assault rifle, and so on), but Half-Life 2 went with the old-school carry-it-all method, and it's too late to change something so fundamental now. When you can carry every weapon in the game, having multiple weapons that serve the same purpose clutters up the inventory, complicates ammunition management and game balance, and a whole host of other factors that come into play, it just, won't, work.

Therefore, if we see any new weapons, they should be additions that are significantly different to any of the existing weapons, or replacements for current weapons. For example: I'd be pleased if Valve replaced the current SMG with something a lot more plausible.

@ chimpmunk, Apocalypse89, G(ordon)-man: Your assertions that "some people" (obviously referring to me in this case) view Valve as the Gods of game development and resist any form of "messing with the formula" are just attempts to avoid all of the points I made above by painting me as a closed-minded fanboy. Rest assured, I have plenty of criticisms of Valve's design choices, especially in terms of the weapons, and I would've put them in my giant post up there, but it was big enough. Do you want to hear some of them?

• The SMG. God, where do I start? First there's the unexplainable, invisible, automatically loading grenade launcher; then there's the fact that 45 rounds of 4.6x30 somehow fit into the handguard, which is physically impossible. Or the fact that the world model is bigger than the view model. Or the fact that it's about as accurate as a snub nosed revolver.
  
• The AR2 is another one. Firstly, there's the accuracy (or sore lack of it). I wouldn't be surprised if you could achieve better accuracy with a shotgun loaded with slugs than you can with the AR2, so it's stretching things immensely to call it a rifle. I know it's all for gameplay balancing purposes, since you almost never fight at long ranges anyway and when you do the .357 and the crossbow should be used, but still.

From a conceptual point of view, it's ridiculous. The Pulse Rifle, like much of the technology the Combine have created for the Overwatch (such as their APCs and the Hunter-Chopper), is a human technological concept (the assault rifle) redesigned to utilize Combine technology. Given their technological superiority, how could they take something so comparatively simple and mess it up so bad? In the real world, even the WW2-era STG-44 assault rifle or the famous AK-47 can easily outdo the Half-Life 2 Pulse Rifle in accuracy and effective range. True, dark energy pulse can hardly be expected to behave in the same way as a bullet, ballistically, but the Combine have clearly been relying on pulse weaponry for some time, there's no way they could be ignorant of its proper application. Especially since the gunship's pulse gun is perfectly accurate.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, Half-Life has always had precious few pretensions to realism, and it's not a tactical shooter (nor should it be), so I'm not saying Half-Life should be turned into a ballistics simulator, but the issues that bother me most have nothing to do with things like weapon performance, but rather with designs that don't make sense. The thing about sci-fi is that if you're creating something fictional -- in this case, alien technology, for example -- you've got a lot of liberty to design what you want, because alien technology is unfamiliar, strange. It isn't restricted by the nuances and details of the real world because it has no real world parallel, right? It can play by its own rules.

But when you're working with technology that actually exists, that has a real world parallel; you can only take so many liberties with the facts before suspension of disbelief is required. Firearms are a good example of this. I think it's safe to say that everyone here has at least a rudimentary knowledge of firearms, what they are, how they work, and how they're supposed to behave. Now pretend that someone made a science-fiction game containing both familiar human technology (such as firearms) and fictional stuff that doesn't have to make sense. Then they give the player a pistol that looks like a Glock 17, except it shoots corrosive acid instead of bullets, then -- unless the weapon in question were to appear during some kind of hallucinogenic drug trip -- we'd have a problem: Real world technology that behaves in a way very inconsistent with its real-life counterpart. Suspension of disbelief is now required.

My point is that in-game representations of things that exist in the real world should make sense unless there's a good reason for them not to. There's a good reason you can survive all the crazy wounds you do, the game wouldn't be much fun if the barrel that zombie tossed at your head knocked you unconscious, leaving you incapable of doing anything but watching helplessly as Gordon becomes that zombie's lunch.

But there's no such reason for some things that don't make sense. The SMG is the biggest offender there, with its invisible grenade launcher and physics-bending magazine capacity. Those aren't contrived peculiarities for the sake of gameplay, they're just logical voids that no one took the time to fill. These logic gaps would be much more excusable if they were to do with something you don't see often, but I think anyone will agree that -- in an FPS -- the weapons need to be capable of bearing more scrutiny than most elements in the game, because you see so much of them. From the time you pick a weapon up until the time you lose it (which is pretty frequent in this series ), it's there to be observed, used and scrutinized.

The crossbow just doesn't cut it, if the enemy moves even one step(or stops/changes their speed if you're trying to lead them) after you've fired, then you're sure to miss because it takes approximately 30 years for the shot to reach them if they're more than a few meters away. I use it more as a slightly crappier alternative to the Magnum(which is the closest thing HL2 has to a proper sniping weapon IMO) than its intended purpose.

While this is a problem in theory, I can't remember ever being frustrated at not being able to hit targets at range in practice. Not in Half-Life 2, anyway. Hitting Ichthyosaurs and alien controllers with the crossbow in the first was memorably difficult. But the crossbow bolts in Half-Life 2 are a bit faster, I'm quite sure. At any rate, this problem is rarely apparent to me in Half-Life 2. Firstly, there's the fact that you almost never fight at long range. (Not what I consider long range, anyway. Long range, to me, is from here to the trees across the river, for example.) And secondly, when you do use it, you usually use it against Overwatch soldiers, which move pretty predictably and stop frequently.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

Yes, just what I thought.

 

[ríomhaire]

The Pulse Rifle is pretty accurate if fired in bursts.

But on the subject of weapon criticisms:

• The view and world models for the crossbow and MP7 don't match.
• You shouldn't be able to fire rebar so accurately with no rifling or fletching of any kind.
• Gordon's OSIPR autmatically reloads itself. Rebels' and Soldiers' don't. Also the magazines that Gordon picks up for them (the large flat one) is not the magazine that's replaced when the gun reloads. Also this magazine clearly stays attached to the gun when NPCs reload it.
• The OSIPR energy pellet and the MP7 grenades relaod themselves.
• What the Gravity Gun does or doesn't affect is pretty random.
• Invisble speedloader for the .357.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

The Pulse Rifle is pretty accurate if fired in bursts.

Not really, even if you fire one shot at a time it's not up to assault rifle standards of accuracy. :stare:

• The view and world models for the crossbow and MP7 don't match.
• What the Gravity Gun does or doesn't affect is pretty random.
• Invisble speedloader for the .357.

Good points!

+

• The USP doesn't eject spent cartridge casings, and its firing and reloading animations are pretty horrible. Gordon fires it one handed. True, he should, theoretically, be an amateur in handling weapons, he's obviously not, and he handled the Glock properly (with both hands) in Half-Life.

I must say, though, for all the faults, Valve did get a few things right. The fact that the USP is more powerful than the MP7 actually makes a degree of sense, because the new PDW cartridges (such as 4.6x30 -- the MP7's -- and 5.7x28 -- the P90's) have been found to have less stopping power against unarmored targets than 9x19 Para (the USP's cartridge).

 

[Apocalypse89]

I can't speak for chipmunk, but I wasn't really referring to you with my comment about rabid fanboys. That's just a general grievance I have with this board, that I decided to bring up when it was mentioned. Sorry if you took it that way.

As for your comment about the crossbow...I guess it's true that there aren't many truly long-range battles in the game, but that doesn't change the fact that the bow is an inferior long-range weapon to the Magnum, which shouldn't be the case if it was meant to be a true "sniper weapon". Even if the chance of the enemy dodging it is low, the chance that the enemy would dodge a magnum bullet is zero, and that makes all the difference.

And to add to your "firearms realism" notes: Technically, the pulse "rifle" isn't even a rifle in the first place because it doesn't seem to fire a solid projectile. And the whole point of rifle is that it spins the round to increase its accuracy.

And I'd say the fact that the Combine would use a weapon as obscure and specialized as the MP7 to equip their forces to be strange too. I guess Valve just chose it because it's not nearly as common in FPS as some other real-life guns(such as the AK-47, etc.) and because it looks futuristic.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

I can't speak for chipmunk, but I wasn't really referring to you with my comment about rabid fanboys. That's just a general grievance I have with this board, that I decided to bring up when it was mentioned. Sorry if you took it that way.

Fair enough.

And to add to your "firearms realism" notes: Technically, the pulse "rifle" isn't even a rifle in the first place because it doesn't seem to fire a solid projectile. And the whole point of rifle is that it spins the round to increase its accuracy.

Aye, the different kind of munition makes it fundamentally different, yet its based on the assault rifle concept, and is meant to serve the same purpose.

And I'd say the fact that the Combine would use a weapon as obscure and specialized as the MP7 to equip their forces to be strange too. I guess Valve just chose it because it's not nearly as common in FPS as some other real-life guns(such as the AK-47, etc.) and because it looks futuristic.

I think they were originally going to make the OICW the Overwatch weapon of choice, but I guess they decided even that was a bit cliche. That may help explain the grenade launcher function on the MP7, though. Originally there were also going to be two SMGs (an MP5K and an MP7), two assault rifles (the AK47 and the OICW), and an Incendiary Rifle that used the model we now know as the Pulse Rifle's. The OICW would have had the grenade launcher, but when it, the MP5K and the AK47 were cut and the iRifle (sounds like an Apple product, let's see if they ever get into arms manufacturing ) was repurposed as the Pulse Rifle, the MP7 got stuck with the grenade launcher functionality to make it more useful, even though the look of the model is very inconsistent with such a functionality. Messy.

 

[chimpmunk]

@ chimpmunk, Apocalypse89, G(ordon)-man: Your assertions that "some people" (obviously referring to me in this case) view Valve as the Gods of game development and resist any form of "messing with the formula" are just attempts to avoid all of the points I made above by painting me as a closed-minded fanboy. Rest assured, I have plenty of criticisms of Valve's design choices, especially in terms of the weapons, and I would've put them in my giant post up there, but it was big enough. Do you want to hear some of them?

Paranoid, are we?

Don't worry, If I was targeting anyone in particular I would have made it clear in my post. It was a "general" statement.

 

[Afnopo]

Gravity Gun is enough to replace any gun.

 

[Hurricane]

It seems like you will be required to have some new weapon, gadget, etc. to beat the Advisors in the next ep. Probably something like the bug bait that cant be actively used.

 

[Crazy_killer]

I suppose that if they introduce a new weapon that it wouldn't be something too high-tech (something you wont find in a gunshop or something used by the army)

Bashing with weapons is not an option either, it would render the crowbar useless, people would only use it in the beginning where you usually don't have any firearms yet.