The OICW from the 2003 videos/ need new guns for expansions

The OICW got cancelled by the military anyway, so it wouldn't exist for Gordon to pick up in the first place :p.
 
Apocalypse89 said:
I still want to see the wse_jack's explanation for why he thinks the OICW is the best thing since sliced bread, and how he even knows it would have been any better than the current SMG or Pulse Rifle.
Click to expand...

Me too. These people act as if they've fired the damn thing before.

In real life I mean.
 
We emailed valve numorious times and even have talked to them on the phone, they insist on us not using leaked source code which we arnt but they dont seem to care about the models and maps at all.
They did tell us that it seems like a waste of time to port it tho :p
 
Cukel said:
skidz: Where exactly did you get this content? From the two year old leak? I doubt all this was there. And anyway, the leak is still stolen goods, no matter year after the game's release. You're definately not going to publish anything retail like that.
On the other hand, if you made this all by yourself, keeping the leak and Raising the Bar as a base to build on, why not release it to everyone? Those levels and weapons look good.
Click to expand...


Well you probably didnt realise but everything was taken from valves servers, and some of that content such as the maps source and a very old TF2 leak were posted on the net by some ppl.
 
sinkoman said:
Those of you complaining that it was "uber goodness" and "the l337est thing on the planet" need to cram it.

You're treating the game like it's real life. In real life, everything is a certain way, and that's that. Now some things in real life are good, and some are bad.

But in a game, everything can be changed to be a certain way. Developers will keep things realistic in their own, but on the large scale, they can take out anything that isn't good when mixed with the game.

Now think about it. The oicw might be good in real life, but that's because it's in the real world. Now in a video game, the rifle is programmed to be realistic, but it might not be good within the game engine. See what i'm saying?

You have to remember that you haven't even played with the damn thing yet. How the hell do you know that it was the best thing in the game?
The complainers logic is "It's good to me, therefore it must be good in the game".

You should smack yourself with a hammer and be read "I may THINK it's good, but till i've played with it, I have no ****ing clue".
Click to expand...
What if maybe they were BETA TESTERS!
 
I agree that the lack of the OICW makes the game unbalanced. It's my only real complaint aside from a few crappy textures.

There were a few outside parts that had combine running in and out of cover and you had to kill them from a great distance. It took a lot of clips from the SMG to kill them because of the inaccuracy of it, and while the Overwatch got the job done, that area would have been a lot more enjoyable if their was an automatic sniper rifle to quickly pick off those guards so you could on to the next area faster. For me, scenes like that were a little annoying, and could have been greatly improved with the OICW.
 
Unimita said:
The OICW got cancelled by the military anyway, so it wouldn't exist for Gordon to pick up in the first place :p.
Click to expand...

The XM29 model anyways, the project itself is still underway under the XM8, XM-26, OSCW Grenade Launcher and others. Some rival companies to HK are copying their XM29 design in prototypes.
 
one thing is that sure if some things that where taken out are very cool,sure valve taked it out for a reason,but still I hope valve focus on cool things too even if they focus more on realism
 
I believe Valve did the right thing, cutting some of those things, but it's still cool to analyze such stuff :)
I love alpha versions of games, work in progress stuff and cut things. I really really love such stuff, especialy from games like Quake 1, Unreal, Half-Life and HL2. Too bad we don't have access to those things :(
 
When you wounder why Valve took something out just remember. They knwo much more about games than you.
 
Hyperion2010 said:
urg, skidz, freeking luck people who managed to get the map pack....
Click to expand...
hah
I could post a video of the lates build... but I fined it a waste of time....
The latest version I have(the 1.3) isnt that spectecular tho.. hust te boring boralise and an e3 level(wich is cool)....
thats it... I dont know what was the team up to since then...
also they need a npc animator.
 
Well the maps are getting done but arnt in any pack yet, mostly lacabra is working on them ;)
map pack is 152mb btw, and none of the maps are compiled in the rar.

i was going to post a movie but I realised we dont have any that I think are decent to show.
 
TollBooth Willie said:
What if maybe they were BETA TESTERS!
Click to expand...

Even so, you haven't played through the entire ****ing game with it, have you?

The former is true, VALVe knows more about game design than you.

How the hell do you know that taking it out made it unballanced, IF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED WITH THE DAMN RIFLE???
 
sinkoman said:
Even so, you haven't played through the entire ****ing game with it, have you?

The former is true, VALVe knows more about game design than you.

How the hell do you know that taking it out made it unballanced, IF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED WITH THE DAMN RIFLE???
Click to expand...

I cant fully agree with you, only acouple people at valve understand good game design, and if they truely understood you wouldnt get bug ridden products.
Take a look at the SDK, you dont need to know how to code just search for the word FIXME, you will find too many to count.

Valve creates incomplete products, they only complete what is needed for the game and leave everything else broken, and sometimes even tho they dont exactly recognize issues with the game on release, these nasty rotting and broken code come back to haunt them and us modders.

I would like them to go through their code before the next SDK update and clean it but unfortunatly thats either not in Valves budget or they are just too lazy.

Srry for bringing them down so.
I do apprietiate the how moddable the game is currently, but I will not and refuse not to agree that Valve are great game designers because the truth is, they arnt.
 
skidz said:
I cant fully agree with you, only acouple people at valve understand good game design, and if they truely understood you wouldnt get bug ridden products.
Click to expand...

Game design has little to do with bugs.

Take a look at the SDK, you dont need to know how to code just search for the word FIXME, you will find too many to count.
Click to expand...

You think that's something unique to Valve? That other game companies produce code that reads like poetry from the mouth of god himself? Game coding is a nasty, dirty, hacky, FIXME-ridden business.

Valve creates incomplete products, they only complete what is needed for the game and leave everything else broken,
Click to expand...
Now you see, that would be a definition of "complete". Why work to complete the stuff you're not going to use?

and sometimes even tho they dont exactly recognize issues with the game on release, these nasty rotting and broken code come back to haunt them and us modders.
Click to expand...
...and then it gets fixed. Welcome to the cycle of game/mod development.

I would like them to go through their code before the next SDK update and clean it but unfortunatly thats either not in Valves budget or they are just too lazy.
Click to expand...
Or because there's no need to.

Srry for bringing them down so.
I do apprietiate the how moddable the game is currently, but I will not and refuse not to agree that Valve are great game designers because the truth is, they arnt.
Click to expand...
Everything you just said is not even slightly relevant to game design. Also, consider that you're taking the stuff that Valve designed but decided not to use. So they can't be that bad, obviously.
 
Pi Mu Rhowned.

Anywho, the gun in question is just a more accurate version of the SMG.
Whoopedy shit best ever weapon!1
 
Now you see, that would be a definition of "complete". Why work to complete the stuff you're not going to use?
Click to expand...
That can´t work for Valve because they always said that the Source engine is supposed to be very modifiably ;)

...with a zoom
Click to expand...
Just give me the "old" HL2 :(
 
Damn, people do not understand that this is how games are made.
Developers have 796246357 cool ideas, they insert all of them into a pre-pre-pre-alpha version of the game, test them and say:
- "damn, this weapon is useless, I prefer the mp7 anyway"
- "oh, no, this Cremator enemy is hilarious, doesn't fit into the theme"
- "hey, there's too much work on the Air Exchange levels, they will make the game a bit boring and incosistent [sp?]"
- "gordon arriving to city 17 on a ship? Most enemies from the game showing up on the very begining of the game? No way, this won't work"

Analyze other games, search for old, prerelease screenshots.
Take a look at Quake. The game we've all played or at least heard about wasn't at all meant to be a Doom-like kill-them-all game. It was supposed to have many RPG elements, but the idea was scrapped because the idsoftware staff didn't want to wait for John Romero to finish the script. The screenshots show some cool environments, NPCs and monsters we never had a chance to kill.
Take a look at Unreal. The first screenshots show never seen in-game environments, weapons etc.
Take a look at first screenshots of Half-Life 1 to see enemies never seen in the game.
Take a look at ... ... ... ... ... ...
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Game design has little to do with bugs.



You think that's something unique to Valve? That other game companies produce code that reads like poetry from the mouth of god himself? Game coding is a nasty, dirty, hacky, FIXME-ridden business.


Now you see, that would be a definition of "complete". Why work to complete the stuff you're not going to use?


...and then it gets fixed. Welcome to the cycle of game/mod development.


Or because there's no need to.


Everything you just said is not even slightly relevant to game design. Also, consider that you're taking the stuff that Valve designed but decided not to use. So they can't be that bad, obviously.
Click to expand...


So its ok to leave work incomplete eh? I'm the lead coder of that mod and I tell the team to not leave a single bug because thats what I do, get the job done right. I have taken numerous game design courses and I can tell you they will not once say "get something working to the point you want even though it has numerous bugs and the code is messy and nested and looks like absolute shit". If you work in the industry you are paid to get the job done right, not half assed. If everyone worked totally half ass in this world nothing would ever get done right.

What if I built a bridge and it worked but had a major design flaw but still worked so I say "ok, we will just leave it because hey, cars seems to be getting across ok, why should it matter if we fix it". Months later the bridge collapses killing numerous people.
I know construction of such things is different, the workers do it correctly and must not make a single mistake, but why should it be different than programming or creating a game in general? You are selling a product in the industry, the people that buy your product deserve merchandise that works, is well made, and quality all around. Not something that is totally incomplete yet you cant quite see it.

Thats just the way it is, I don't care if you disagree and think everything should be half assed because thats just the easy way out and not how people should run a business.
 
Przemek said:
Damn, people do not understand that this is how games are made.
Developers have 796246357 cool ideas, they insert all of them into a pre-pre-pre-alpha version of the game, test them and say:
- "damn, this weapon is useless, I prefer the mp7 anyway"
- "oh, no, this Cremator enemy is hilarious, doesn't fit into the theme"
- "hey, there's too much work on the Air Exchange levels, they will make the game a bit boring and incosistent [sp?]"
- "gordon arriving to city 17 on a ship? Most enemies from the game showing up on the very begining of the game? No way, this won't work"

Analyze other games, search for old, prerelease screenshots.
Take a look at Quake. The game we've all played or at least heard about wasn't at all meant to be a Doom-like kill-them-all game. It was supposed to have many RPG elements, but the idea was scrapped because the idsoftware staff didn't want to wait for John Romero to finish the script. The screenshots show some cool environments, NPCs and monsters we never had a chance to kill.
Take a look at Unreal. The first screenshots show never seen in-game environments, weapons etc.
Take a look at first screenshots of Half-Life 1 to see enemies never seen in the game.
Take a look at ... ... ... ... ... ...
Click to expand...

But Valve doesnt even remove beta content and screenshots from thier own official website, the bloody box had beta screenshots on it :|
Selling a product based off old screenshots like that and not delivering pisses people off, thats how it works.
 
skidz said:
So its ok to leave work incomplete eh? I'm the lead coder of that mod and I tell the team to not leave a single bug because thats what I do, get the job done right. I have taken numerous game design courses and I can tell you they will not once say "get something working to the point you want even though it has numerous bugs and the code is messy and nested and looks like absolute shit". If you work in the industry you are paid to get the job done right, not half assed. If everyone worked totally half ass in this world nothing would ever get done right.

What if I built a bridge and it worked but had a major design flaw but still worked so I say "ok, we will just leave it because hey, cars seems to be getting across ok, why should it matter if we fix it". Months later the bridge collapses killing numerous people.
I know construction of such things is different, the workers do it correctly and must not make a single mistake, but why should it be different than programming or creating a game in general? You are selling a product in the industry, the people that buy your product deserve merchandise that works, is well made, and quality all around. Not something that is totally incomplete yet you cant quite see it.

Thats just the way it is, I don't care if you disagree and think everything should be half assed because thats just the easy way out and not how people should run a business.
Click to expand...
You're right, but some bugs in HL2 were unavoidable. I'm talking about the bugs with the Audigy 2 soundcards, about the driver bugs, about the 3rd party software conflicts,... Those are bugs too, but often Valve can't do anything about them.
 
Przemek said:
Analyze other games, search for old, prerelease screenshots.
Take a look at Quake. The game we've all played or at least heard about wasn't at all meant to be a Doom-like kill-them-all game. It was supposed to have many RPG elements, but the idea was scrapped because the idsoftware staff didn't want to wait for John Romero to finish the script. The screenshots show some cool environments, NPCs and monsters we never had a chance to kill.
Take a look at Unreal. The first screenshots show never seen in-game environments, weapons etc.
Take a look at first screenshots of Half-Life 1 to see enemies never seen in the game.
Take a look at ... ... ... ... ... ...
Click to expand...

Heh, that reminded me about Lame Duke. ;)

- http://www.cygnusloop.com/lameduke/about.htm
 
Beerdude26 said:
You're right, but some bugs in HL2 were unavoidable. I'm talking about the bugs with the Audigy 2 soundcards, about the driver bugs, about the 3rd party software conflicts,... Those are bugs too, but often Valve can't do anything about them.
Click to expand...

oh well, you have a point there. I realise its not easy to determine how well something will work on everyones computer, and patches for those things are important once the game has been released.
 
skidz said:
But Valve doesnt even remove beta content and screenshots from thier own official website, the bloody box had beta screenshots on it :|
Selling a product based off old screenshots like that and not delivering pisses people off, thats how it works.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I was annoyed how it changed so much. Just the little things like zooming in and shooting and the fire being able to burn and spread across zombies etc...
 
skidz said:
But Valve doesnt even remove beta content and screenshots from thier own official website, the bloody box had beta screenshots on it :|
Selling a product based off old screenshots like that and not delivering pisses people off, thats how it works.
Click to expand...

Um, all they have 'wrong' on the site are two world models of guns replaced by ones with identical capabilities and characters with slightly inferior texture work. On the box, they have only the mildly different characters.

So you're complaining that they provided better than advertised?

Either citizens in green jackets instead of blue were a major selling point for you, or you're grasping at straws.
 
Hmmm... Maybe we should do a HL2 screenshot contest and then e-mail Valve the winners...
 
skidz said:
But Valve doesnt even remove beta content and screenshots from thier own official website, the bloody box had beta screenshots on it :|
Selling a product based off old screenshots like that and not delivering pisses people off, thats how it works.
Click to expand...
Thats Vivendi, not Valve.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Um, all they have 'wrong' on the site are two world models of guns replaced by ones with identical capabilities and characters with slightly inferior texture work. On the box, they have only the mildly different characters.

So you're complaining that they provided better than advertised?

Either citizens in green jackets instead of blue were a major selling point for you, or you're grasping at straws.
Click to expand...

hl2_screen.Patrol.gif

hl2_screen.Eli+Alyx.gif

hl2_screen.UrbanRenewal.gif

This one below is very very old, back when the civs had gas masks to protect themselves from the airex pollution.
hl2_screen.GreatStrides.gif


Why do they only have old concept art :p They have better stuff that was actually in retail.
hl2_conceptart.Depot.gif


Vivendi's fault for the box, valves fault for the website.
http://www.half-life2.com/media.html

EVERY screenshot is from the beta.

Major selling point was the old story yes, thanks for thinking you understand.

[EDIT]
I just noticed this, has the ar1 in his hand :D
hl2_conceptart.Combine%20Soldier.gif


Thats good, now I know for sure thats what it looked like.
 
More screenshots of some very old AI tests, found them lying around on my server.

ai_testmap0001.jpg

ai_testmap0008.jpg

ai_testmap0010.jpg

ai_testmap0013.jpg

ai_testmap0015.jpg

ai_testmap0019.jpg


Im srry 56k ppl, should I just post links?
 
Let's see:
The first picture has citizens and metrocops.
The final game has citizens and metrocops with different-coloured clothing.

The second picture has Eli and Alyx.
The final game has Eli and Alyx with improved clothing detail.

The third picture shows overwatch holding the OMG-OICW.
The final game has overwatch holding the pulse rifle, which does almost exactly the same thing.

The last picture shows civilians and a strider.
The final game has better civilians and a strider.

The rest is concept art.

So again, what's your point? That Valve tricked people into thinking that the game would be the same, only slightly shittier?

Yeah, evil genius there.

Here's the more likely scenario:
The site and box were designed back in 2003 and no-one really gave a damn about spending resources updating them because everything is borderline identical to the final project.

Also "major selling point was the old story" my ass. Every bit of media other than those two things were updated consistently up until the final release date.

In any case, saying that the website's old media was a message beamed directly from Valve to you saying "this is the hidden better game and it's up to you to find it," - and then complaining that unfinished beta objects are therefore a violation of that imaginary agreement - is stupid in the third degree.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Let's see:
The first picture has citizens and metrocops.
The final game has citizens and metrocops with different-coloured clothing.

The second picture has Eli and Alyx.
The final game has Eli and Alyx with improved clothing detail.

The third picture shows overwatch holding the OMG-OICW.
The final game has overwatch holding the pulse rifle, which does almost exactly the same thing.

The last picture shows civilians and a strider.
The final game has better civilians and a strider.

The rest is concept art.

So again, what's your point? That Valve tricked people into thinking that the game would be the same, only slightly shittier?

Yeah, evil genius there.

Here's the more likely scenario:
The site and box were designed back in 2003 and no-one really gave a damn about spending resources updating them because everything is borderline identical to the final project.

Also "major selling point was the old story" my ass. Every bit of media other than those two things were updated consistently up until the final release date.

In any case, saying that the website's old media was a message beamed directly from Valve to you saying "this is the hidden better game and it's up to you to find it" - and then complaining that unfinished beta objects are therefore a violation of that imaginary message - is stupid in the third degree.
Click to expand...


yea alright, post of the day :thumbs: :rolling:
 
I'm just going to assume that english is your second language. It's less disheartening that way.
 
yea, the site actually ran out of bandwidth for this month, and tundra isnt willing to throw some extra cash at it.
Which is fine, I wouldnt either. Should be back up tuesday.
I think it was you guys downloading that vid :E
 
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