The OICW from the 2003 videos/ need new guns for expansions

[Pi Mu Rho]

So its ok to leave work incomplete eh? I'm the lead coder of that mod and I tell the team to not leave a single bug because thats what I do, get the job done right. I have taken numerous game design courses and I can tell you they will not once say "get something working to the point you want even though it has numerous bugs and the code is messy and nested and looks like absolute shit". If you work in the industry you are paid to get the job done right, not half assed. If everyone worked totally half ass in this world nothing would ever get done right.

Way to miss the point.
Bugs are unavoidable, and when something has been fixed so that it works, no matter how awful of a hack it is, you don't then tear down the whole thing just to make it look neat.
It's absolutely not a requirement of writing a game that your code looks nice and neat afterwards. Take a look at the Quake/2/3 source. Neat? Hell, no.
You make it work. Then you test. Then you fix. Then you test more. Then you fix more until it does what you intended, not what some end-users with an overinflated opinion of their own importance decide what it should have been.

What if I built a bridge and it worked but had a major design flaw but still worked so I say "ok, we will just leave it because hey, cars seems to be getting across ok, why should it matter if we fix it". Months later the bridge collapses killing numerous people.
I know construction of such things is different, the workers do it correctly and must not make a single mistake, but why should it be different than programming or creating a game in general? You are selling a product in the industry, the people that buy your product deserve merchandise that works, is well made, and quality all around. Not something that is totally incomplete yet you cant quite see it.

HL2 was in no way incomplete. It's exactly what Valve intended to release. It's not uncommon to release media earlier on in development, media that contains things that get cut before release. That's game development.
The simple fact is that it's Valve's vision - their game. If the theft hadn't occurred, you wouldn't know about most of the stuff that got cut. As it is, you've been lucky to get a glimpse into this early stage of development, and yet all you do is whine because you somehow believe that your idea of what HL2 should have been is superior to Valve's ultimate vision.
It's remarkably easy to criticise when you're not and never have been in that position - make your own game, entirely from scratch, and see what gets cut along the way.

Thats just the way it is, I don't care if you disagree and think everything should be half assed because thats just the easy way out and not how people should run a business.

And that's not what I said at all. Making things up doesn't strengthen your position.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

But he took a game design course!
So obviously he knows much more about games and companies than actual game companies.

I mean, Valve sucks sooo much compared to the stuff he stole.. from Valve.

Man, the logical gaps required to make sense of this are just fascinating.
Please tell us more, skippy.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

...with a zoom

Watch the barricade video again. You could zoom with the MP7 and maybe all weapons.

I wondered why they bothered adding that fancy sight when you can't use it.

 

[ríomhaire]

There are reasons everything got cut. And many thing didn't truly get cut but came about in a different form
the waste-the coast
Air Exchange-Nova Prospekt
Combine assasin-leaper zombie

And besides, which would you prefer
normal SMG
normal asault rife with scope
or
normal SMG
hyper-disintegration secondary fire assault rifle
stick-enemies-to-walls-ownage crossbow

I know which I'd want.

 

[Sulkdodds]

A random friend said they took out the OICW because Valve didn't have the rights to use the weapon. Like, IP rights. COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!

 

[$kelet0r]

well what about the other weapons then ???
H&K MP7
USP
Shotgun(Italian design?)
.357 Magnum

they're all copyrighted too

 

[Sulkdodds]

That's what I thought.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

That's what I thought.

Well, you can buy copyrights. Maybe they just didn't get the rights to the OICW but did get them for the other weapons.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The most likely reason was that, like WeeTodd said, the scope was useless.
If they kept it, everyone would complain about the unusable scope.

Also, the MP7 already has a grenade launcher, so the OICW's would be redundant.

The pulse rifle removes the scope and replaces the grenades with a much more useful ability, but otherwise it's identical.
It also adds a uniquely combine-designed weapon.

 

[tundra_cool]

I believe Valve cut it because they couldn't use the scope and grenade launcher on the same weapon. The grenade launcher which you use on the MP7 was ripped directly from the OICW. In the leak the code was built with the OICW having a scope - you can easily change it back to having a grenade launcher by uncommenting a few lines of code. There are also a few sprites of the OICW without a scope for when the game gave it a grenade launcher only.

 

[LEDHED]

There are reasons everything got cut. And many thing didn't truly get cut but came about in a different form
the waste-the coast
Air Exchange-Nova Prospekt
Combine assasin-leaper zombie

And besides, which would you prefer
normal SMG
normal asault rife with scope
or
normal SMG
hyper-disintegration secondary fire assault rifle
stick-enemies-to-walls-ownage crossbow

I know which I'd want.

Actually the air exchange didn't get replaced by something similar, it was cut out all together, and nova prospekt replaced the depot, and no the combine assassin wasn't replaced by the "leaper zombie" as you call it, it was completely cut, the "leaper zombie" replaced the alien assassin (which had completely different animations just similar ai to the fast zombie) which was nothing like the combine assassin. If anybody wants to clear up things about the beta, please explore every tiny bit of it's content, don't try to act smart if you haven't really examined it, you just sound like an idiot. Please don't try to speak for everyone, maybe some people want many options for all of their weapons. Oh yeah if people didn't care about beta stuff than how come so many people are viewing this thread right now? Get your facts straight or don't speak at all.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Ledhed, you just said pretty much exactly what Riom did, only with different wording and bit more assholey.

The fast zombies are the result of recycled beta AI, even if it's not combine.
NP follows pretty much the same concept and thematic purpose as the Air Exchange, making the cut part similar and redundant, even if it's not a direct replacement.

The problem isn't that people haven't analyzed every line of stolen code. It's that you're being too literal-minded as to what constitutes a replacement.

Also, why are people constantly trying to justify the theft? I just don't get that. I've heard almost every possible excuse.
And it's not just excuses either, but people angrily DEMANDING that they be given the 'right' to use stolen goods.
It's childish.

 

[LEDHED]

Ledhed, you just said pretty much exactly what Riom did, only with different wording and bit more assholey.

The fast zombies are the result of recycled beta AI, even if it's not combine.
NP follows pretty much the same concept and thematic purpose as the Air Exchange, making the cut part similar and redundant, even if it's not a direct replacement.

The problem isn't that people haven't analyzed every line of stolen code. It's that you're being too literal-mind as to what constitutes a replacement.

Also, why are people constantly trying to justify the theft? I just don't get that. I've heard almost every possible excuse.
And it's not just excuses either, but people angrily DEMANDING that they be given the 'right' to use stolen goods.

i never tried to justify the theft of the source code i'm just clearing up a few things about it. Also air exchange really isn't anything like Nova Prospekt, the gameplay ideas and all were very different. Also if i came off as "assholey" I apologize, i just can't stand when people try to clear something up about something they have really never thoroughly examined and when they try to speak for everyone. Also what i said was pretty different from what Riom said.

 

[Que-Ever]

I thought the OICW had been cut because the project had been cancelled. The copywrights thing is crap, because they use all hte other guns, like the magnum, etc... anyway, they didn't call them by their "proper" names anyway, so they're not the exact same gun, so they cn do wtf they want with them, right? it's like a parody.

anyway, I think I missed something important, because the thread started out with the poster whining about how the OICW got left and, and basically flaunting his ignorance, then suddenly everyone's arguing about how games are made, then suddenly posting movies from that mod, then other shit... this thread is rather confusing :|

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The thing is, everything in the final game is a replacement for everything in the stolen code.

The reason why things get cut is because they don't work, and the act of cutting is replacement. Replacing even slightly broken things with things that work well.

Nova Prospekt is what the Air Exchange would be if it were deemed good enough to be included in the final game.
The game without the Air Exchange replaced the one that had the Air Exchange.
The pulse rifle replaced both the OICW and the incendiary rifle, etc.

skidz derailed the thread for a bit with ads there, but the topic of 'why things get cut from games' is still going pretty smoothly.

 

[ríomhaire]

Air Exchange was where you would storm a Combine facility to start the resistance. Nova Prospekt is that with antlions! The waste was the way the AE, the coast is the way to NP. They were both conected back to C17 by train. It's all in RtB which I prefer as a source to stolen code. The waste had Xen species, the coast has antlions.
And don't be an ass. I meant the alien assasin and you know. The leaper zombie was designed to take the place of the assasin because the part where they appeared was cut. That is the most pure form of something appearing under another form that I can think of.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Not just "they don't work", Mecha, but "Because other stuff we've added already does it better"

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I considered about saying something along those lines, but I figured it best to keep the explanation simple.

So for the time being, 'not working' should be considered to mean anything along the lines of 'inferior to the final content'.

 

[Que-Ever]

Game cuts could be like movie cuts, in the way, oh... the Phantom Menace, and it's deleted scenes were. Specifically, the extended podrace, lap 2- pretty cool, but required extra work to get in, and didn't relaly do anything to move the story along or anything.

alerady said, though, I bet...

 

[LEDHED]

Air Exchange was where you would storm a Combine facility to start the resistance. Nova Prospekt is that with antlions! The waste was the way the AE, the coast is the way to NP. They were both conected back to C17 by train. It's all in RtB which I prefer as a source to stolen code. The waste had Xen species, the coast has antlions.
And don't be an ass. I meant the alien assasin and you know. The leaper zombie was designed to take the place of the assasin because the part where they appeared was cut. That is the most pure form of something appearing under another form that I can think of.

Come on, in raising the bar if you looked at the map it said that the air exchange (it was called the air conditioner also) went straight to the borealis, which went to kraken base, which went to the weather control, where you took a c-130 cargo plane back to c17, thats pretty different from a train don't you agree? Also you must have whizzed through hl2 because after you were through with nova prospekt you took a teleporter, not a train to c17. Also the alien assassin is in no way like the combine assassin so i don't belive you when you say you meant the alien assassin.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Come on, in raising the bar if you looked at the map it said that the air exchange (it was called the air conditioner also) went straight to the borealis, which went to kraken base, which went to the weather control, where you took a c-130 cargo plane back to c17, thats pretty different from a train don't you agree? Also you must have whizzed through hl2 because after you were through with nova prospekt you took a teleporter, not a train to c17. Also the alien assassin is in no way like the combine assassin so i don't belive you when you say you meant the alien assassin.

It's called a COMBINE Alien Assassin. Why on earth would you think he meant the one with the sniper rifle?

Anyways, it says clearly in the book that the Air exchange was connected by railroad to the city. It's also shown on the map by a green line.
Obviously after the boat was cut, they replaced it with the extended canal-coast sequence.
It also says in the book that Nova Prospekt, the depot and the air exchange are all variations on the same place.

So seriously, you're wrong already.

 

[ríomhaire]

Come on, in raising the bar if you looked at the map it said that the air exchange (it was called the air conditioner also) went straight to the borealis, which went to kraken base, which went to the weather control, where you took a c-130 cargo plane back to c17, thats pretty different from a train don't you agree? Also you must have whizzed through hl2 because after you were through with nova prospekt you took a teleporter, not a train to c17.

Nothing changed more in the process of developing HL2 that concepts of what lay outside the walls of C17. Valve experimented with concepts ranging from a vast Scrapyard full of junked military machines, to a dried seafloor with the ocean draining away into a vast teleport "drain". The uniting thread was to be a railroad linking C17 to an outlying complex known as Air Exchange, the Depot, the Gulag and finally Nova Prospekt. While everything else changed, the railroad theme remained constant.

Also the alien assassin is in no way like the combine assassin so i don't belive you when you say you meant the alien assassin.

Edit: Yes, I thought that this became the leaper zombie and that this became the metrocops.

 

[sinkoman]

well what about the other weapons then ???
H&K MP7
USP
Shotgun(Italian design?)
.357 Magnum

they're all copyrighted too

Franchi Spas 12.

 

[$kelet0r]

thanks:thumbs:
you have them back to front riomhaire

 

[Sufferin-rebel]

Originally Posted by john3571000
well what about the other weapons then ???
H&K MP7
USP
Shotgun(Italian design?)
.357 Magnum

they're all copyrighted too

Here are some pictures of all beta weapons

http://nfhl.stsland***/image/hl2/weapons_beta/02w.gif
http://nfhl.stsland***/image/hl2/weapons_beta/02p.gif
Iceaxe

there are lots more here http://nfhl.stsland***/weapons_beta.html

 

[ríomhaire]

Here are some pictures of all beta weapons

http://nfhl.stsland***/image/hl2/weapons_beta/02w.gif
http://nfhl.stsland***/image/hl2/weapons_beta/02p.gif
Iceaxe

there are lots more here http://nfhl.stsland***/weapons_beta.html

Translation site please?

 

[DESSTROYER]

its in russian, goto babelfish translator ;p

 

[LEDHED]

"Nothing changed more in the process of developing HL2 that concepts of what lay outside the walls of C17. Valve experimented with concepts ranging from a vast Scrapyard full of junked military machines, to a dried seafloor with the ocean draining away into a vast teleport "drain". The uniting thread was to be a railroad linking C17 to an outlying complex known as Air Exchange, the Depot, the Gulag and finally Nova Prospekt. While everything else changed, the railroad theme remained constant."

look at the map on page 177

 

[Que-Ever]

bablefish isn't really that reliable, but w/e...

Fomka, which is been the secret symbolism Half- bodice, so will remain the very first weapon, which will encounter Gordon Freeman in the game.
Fomkoy it is convenient to break boxes and to beat glass. But not more. Practically any struggle with the enemy will prove to be for you the latter, if in the hands you have fomka.

fomka= crowbar.

Ice-axe. Alternative to fomke. Difference - smaller weight, the respectively high rate of inflicting impacts.

Bludgeon. Alternative to fomke and to ice-axe. There are no vital differences.

< stunstick

Fire extinguisher. However it is strange - it adapts for the extinguishing of the centers of fire, i.e. fire. With the presence of fire extinguisher you will be able to painlessly pass that section of map, which earlier was covered with fire.

Binoculars. Has five-fold approximation. The presence of binoculars once more confirms the presence of the large free spaces in the game. Indeed in the dark, narrow corridors binoculars to nothing , truth?

ManHack. Judging by the results of action (revolving round blade), it can be assumed that this weapon - blade, which can be will be selected after the destruction of the flying drona- guard Man Hack.

Thumper. Very strange "weapon" is the fire crane- hydrant installed to the floor. After how and which its role in the complete version - it is unknown.

Handguns. By exterior view greatly resembles pistol USP Match firm Heckler&.Koch. 18 cartridges in the cartridge clip and 150 - maximum (cartridges they are identical with SMG).
For the first time you select it from that killed metrocop

Signal flare pistol. Also it can be selected in metrocop. Model - is not finished.
To see signal flare pistol in action is possible in E3 roller "Barricade" - it shoots metrocop on the tower.

Heckler & Koch Mp-7 PDW. It is intended for the armament of soldiers, to which on the state they are not assumed valuable automaton (assault rifle).
In E3 rollers had approximation (zoom). In beta - it shoots by podstvol'nymi grenades. Most likely in the complete version it will be precisely in the manner that it is shown in the rollers. 30 cartridges in the cartridge clip.

podstovyl'nymi= underslung? dunno.

Machine pistol Heckler & Koch MP-5k. It remains after death combine soldiers. However, during the raising by Gordon by magic means it is converted in SMG1 (HK Mp-7 PDW). It can be included by cantilever command; however, it does not have model.
It is probable that not it will be present in the final version of game, being it is substituted on SMG1. It has two regimes of the shooting: on several cartridges and by turn.

The machine pistol, which armed Alyx Vance. Takeing into account that the fact that the probability to see your naparnitsu of corpse - is very small, it is the same and probability to obtain into the hands this weapon.
Nevertheless, in "beta" it there is.

naparnitsu?

Smooth-bore is gun Spas-12. 6 cartridges in the cartridge clip. 30 - maximum.
Is differed in no way from standard shotgana of of original Half- half-Life. Two regimes of the shooting: standard (on the cartridge) and alternative (on two cartridges).

Kalashnikov automatic rifle. In "beta" works extremely glyuchno. Absolutely no evidence of the fact that AK will be present in the complete version of game.

glyuchno?

Kombinirovannaya assault rifle Heckler-Koch Xm-29 OICW. In "beta" as alternative fire serves approximation (zoom), whereas in the rollers in OICW alternative fire was shot from the podstvol'nogo grenade discharger. We are inclined to the version, shown in the rollers.

Heavy Machine Gun. To attain the fitness for work of this weapon in "beta" for us so did not succeed.
Only, that it is possible to say on the being present model - as its prototype serves the machine gun of series GR9, German firm Heckler & Koch.

Sniper rifle. Model in "beta" is not completed, just as the process of approximation (zoom).
It has two-step optics. It were created on the basis of real vinovki LAR Grizzly 50 BMG ("Grizzly" the 50th caliber).

Weapon, which outwardly is suitable for the description of the jet grenade discharger, which shoots by rockets with the thermal warhead.
Specifically, from it in video with E3 it was winged - was set fire combine soldier.

IT DID originally shoot fire

Old good of gauss- Ghana, familiar to us even on laboratories Black Mesa. Energy weapon, which shoots in standard regime 1 by energy unit, in the alternative - shooting the storage discharge.
In the game will be two specific - stationary (it is established, for example, on baggi) and manual, which will be able to transfer player.

New "chip" from Valve. Manipulator the very same Zero-Gravity Gun - the weapon, capable of locally abolishing the laws of gravity. With its aid it will be possible to move objects not exceeding the specific weight by any distances.
The classical application - to take object is potyazheleye and to fling in the enemy. Alternative fire shoots by energy ray.

Combine Guard Gun. Weapon, utilized by your enemy Combine Guard. According to the unconfirmed information precisely from it it will be possible to kill Strider.
Moshchneysheye weapon, which shoots by strong energy discharge. In "beta" in this weapon only of 4 charges. Skin in model practically is absent

moshchneysheye?

Reactive grenade discharger. Classics of genre with the addition from Valve - by guided missiles. No changes except cosmetic ( in comparison with the the original Half- bodice).
It adapts against the tanks and other armored machines. Most likely, it will be one of the basic weapons against Alien Gunship.

Molotov's cocktail - this is the incendiary bomb, which causes the ignition of object, being divided against its rigid surfaces. It is the glass bottle, which is filled to two thirds with gasoline and to one third by oil.
They must be a good weapon with the cleaning of the closed accomodations.

good close quarters weapon.

Grenade of the explosive damaging effect. Large accumulations of enemies or hostile technology - its "dear" places of wear and tear.
Maximally accessible quantity - 5 pieces.

Slam. There are no models and hud ikonok weapon.
Judging by the results of action - this is the analog of the radio-controlled explosive Satchel (Detpack) from the the original Half- bodice.

bodice=life? ikonok?

Sticky Launcher. There are no models and hud ikonok weapon. Judging by the results of action - weapon that shooting "by the bombs -lipuckmi", which stick to the surface. Alternative fire explodes them. It is possible to shoot several pieces, after exploding them simultaneously.

lipuckmi...

Very original weapon. It to more easily see in action how to describe by words. Not in vain this "grenade" is called "skipped". With its use it is necessary to hop not only for you but also to your enemies.
After thrust hopwire it jumps into air and ejects from itself 7 balls on the "ropes", which stick to the nearest surfaces. Now this is the fatal stretching, which explodes with the intersection of its "ropes".

One of the imperfections of "beta". Judging by everything - the head of monster creamator, which it will be possible to use as a weapon.

One additional imperfection of "beta". Most likely, the replacement of beetles (snarks) from the the original Half- bodice

The very original weapon, demonstrated on E3 - the balls of the organic origin, which contain the substance, whose smell attracts ant Lion (formic lions).
Throwing spheres in the direction necessary to us we we obtain the possibility to direct the groups of strangers, for example, to the soldiers hostile to us.

Immolator. There are no models and hud ikonok weapon. Judging by the results of action (green energy ray), it can be assumed that this weapon - analog of that lightning, by which they shot Alien Slave the the original Half- bodice. Takeing into account that the fact that in "beta" Alien Slave are your allies - this assumption is completely sound.

 

[ríomhaire]

look at the map on page 177

 

[ríomhaire]

The mystery of the unknown weapon has been solved

"It is not entirely known what this weapon was supposed to be. It has been identified as being a number of different weapons ranging from a pulse shield to the ever elusive Biozeminade launcher. Still others believe that this was the weapon grafted onto Combine elites during the early versions of the game in which they were armored synths."

"Combine Guard Gun. Weapon, utilized by your enemy Combine Guard. According to the unconfirmed information precisely from it it will be possible to kill Strider.

Moshchneysheye weapon, which shoots by strong energy discharge. In "beta" in this weapon only of 4 charges. S"kin in model practically is absent."

 

[Asknoone]

Don't double post Rio, you know better

nova prospekt replaced the depot.

You mean Nova Prospekt was merged with the depot. You see, hear and enter the Combine depot in Half-life 2 during entanglement.

 

[ríomhaire]

Don't double post Rio, you know better

Sorry m'lord.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

look at the map on page 177

The map on page 177 shows a green line that represents the train's path through the wasteland from City 17 to the depot. this line was substantially lengthened in the final product, replacing the boat and plane sequences.

 

[Syntaxn]

I don´t have Raising the Bar, so please can someone who has it give a quick overview what *should* have happened?!
But the game don´t started on the Borelias (like I thought all the time), it started in City17, right?

 

[ríomhaire]

I don´t have Raising the Bar, so please can someone who has it give a quick overview what *should* have happened?!
But the game don´t started on the Borelias (like I thought all the time), it started in City17, right?

It started in alot of places. There was gonna be a big train-ride into C17 through the waste which included a razor train hitting a Garg. There were loads of different opening.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The only huge difference was that the wasteland/coast part was very short, while the Nova Prospekt teleportation trip back to city 17 was originally a longer trip by boat and plane.

Otherwise, it followed a very similar structure to the final version.

 

[<RJMC>]

somehting that I noted is that in the site whit the beta info the pic whit the oicw says "ar2" thats the console thing to the pulse rifle right? also I hav never saw a image of the nocturnal vision

 

[ríomhaire]

somehting that I noted is that in the site whit the beta info the pic whit the oicw says "ar2" thats the console thing to the pulse rifle right? also I hav never saw a image of the nocturnal vision

ar2=assault rifle 2
same as the SMG being smg1.

 

[Sufferin-rebel]

Translation site please?

I only put it there so you could awe at the screenshots