The perils of Dating when you're a Magic the Gathering World Champoin

[Stylo]

Sure, the article's not very nice but I don't see how the people ripping on her looks and personality in response are any better than her, really.

I like that the guy who was the victim seems far less bothered about it than half the people in this thread.

 

[Eejit]

Sure, the article's not very nice but I don't see how the people ripping on her looks and personality in response are any better than her, really.

Because people here are doing it in a private setting, she did it in a public forum.
It's the difference between bitching about someone with a few friends and doing it on TV.

 

[Stylo]

This... this isn't a public forum? Oh...

Well, better to be an asshole in private than publicly on the internet, right? Moral high ground is reserved for the two-faced, obviously.

 

[Wanted Bob]

This... this isn't a public forum? Oh...

Not that I think it makes it right, but yes the lounge is private. You have to a registered member to access this part of the forum.

 

[Stylo]

Not that I think it makes it right, but yes the lounge is private. You have to a registered member to access this part of the forum.

I was genuinely unaware of this.

 

[Eejit]

Well, better to be an asshole in private than on the internet, right? Moral high ground is reserved for the two-faced, obviously.

On the other hand, venting grievances with discretion vs airing them publicly with potential for humiliation of the Mocked One.

 

[15357]

No. I got called an "ugly bitch" or some similar hateful thing on at least a weekly basis at school (I'm very very very ridiculously good looking, however). It's just an awful, disgusting thing to call a woman, or anybody, and "chill out" is an inappropriate response because laughing off that level of disrespect towards women just makes it ok for that kind of disrespect to be ubiquitous. Every day of my secondary school life I laughed off shit like that and worse. It was only when I got to college and met real people that I realized how awful it was and that by permitting it, we promote hatred of women and hey, **** it, just hatred in general. Even in college, there are dicks who stick their hands down my top when they get drunk, and idiots who tell me that it's not possible for me to have good spacial skills because of my vagina (even though I'm the goddamn best in my whole family at reading a map) and fools who spend all their leisure time on websites rating out of 10 women who spent hours and hours on their hair and make-up, and for what? So some creep could come along and say "yeah she'd be a 7 if her nose wasn't so big"? So no, Higlac, I won't "chill out". The attitudes that we have shape the culture that we live in. Harsh words and insults do a lot actually.

Now please, please, for the love of god, can we get back to whining about what the mean lady did to the cute nerd?

I'm going to have to ask you to provide us with some pics for obvious scientific reasons, and as support for your argument.

*seriousface*


Anyway, this thread is confusing. Also, yeah she insulted a guy because he does something she won't understand, and now we're insulting her. Not quite sure if this is just or not, but I suppose someone could get some satisfaction out of it; although I don't see the point of insulting her when obviously it won't effect her in any way since she can't hear/read us. Or maybe that is the point; we're just so cowardly that we can only (justly or otherwise) insult someone "behind their backs". Or is it the collective satisfaction we get from having a consensus and a common ground? Which obviously has failed here.

But in the end, I suppose a taste of her own medicine couldn't really hurt.

 

[99.vikram]

Or maybe that is the point; we're just so cowardly that we can only (justly or otherwise) insult someone "behind their backs". Or is it the collective satisfaction we get from having a consensus and a common ground? Which obviously has failed here.

The point is to reinforce a shared group value. Either "Judging people for their interests is wrong!" or "Insulting a decent guy publicly on your blog is wrong!". OR: to invite disagreement so we can argue over it and eventually reach a consensus... again, formulating a shared group value.

Basic social behaviour in humans.

 

[15357]

The point is to reinforce a shared group value. Either "Judging people for their interests is wrong!" or "Insulting a decent guy publicly on your blog is wrong!". OR: to invite disagreement so we can argue over it and eventually reach a consensus... again, formulating a shared group value.

Basic social behaviour in humans.

Aha! I knew I was getting close. If I can understand human behavior better, maybe I can finally act like one.

 

[99.vikram]

Aha! I knew I was getting close. If I can understand human behavior better, maybe I can finally act like one.

If that works send me a memo. I can predict what people around me think/feel with uncanny precision... and then they talk to me and I'm lost

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

So many betas in here.

 

[Stigmata]

That is such a beta thing to say :v

 

[Schweppe]

What is this, a fraternity?

Don't worry, I didn't even take my coat off...

 

[hool10]

I didn't see anything wrong with the guy at all. Sure he has a problem playing a card game that pre-teens enjoy. He likes it though and gets a lot of money out of it so I would be all for it. I would be even more for it if they sent him across the world to like Japan or something for free. Surely she saw something in the guy to even setup the first date. I mean did the guy stink, or try to advance on her like some creep? The only thing that I saw wrong was the movie bit. Plus I don't think she was ugly. However talking about his personal life is just really low and really if you look at it, cowardly. Plus Gizmodo is a bit of a geeky website as well. Hopefully 4chan doesn't like send her death threats or something now.

 

[Stylo]

On the other hand, venting grievances with discretion vs airing them publicly with potential for humiliation of the Mocked One.

So, basically, you're being as much as a dick as she was being for writing the blog whilst pretending you're better than her because you're doing it in front of less people.

Okay, cool.

 

[Letters]

You've all missed the real lesson here... go dig up your old magic cards, look through them, and wish you had someone to play against.

 

[Wanted Bob]

I downloaded the Planeswalker demo because of this thread. Played a few games for nostalgias sake, then uninstalled it.

 

[Yuri]

yeah let's talk about how much MTG is ****ing awesome instead. bitches won't beat my sliver deck

 

[Bad^Hat]

On the other hand, venting grievances with discretion vs airing them publicly with potential for humiliation of the Mocked One.

I'm sorry, but in what way is "she's ugly" a grievance?

I've still yet to hear any justification for this criticism being relevant or appropriate that doesn't boil down to "she started it!"

 

[Stigmata]

yeah let's talk about how much MTG is ****ing awesome instead. bitches won't beat my sliver deck

Slivers ain't shit but hoes and tricks

 

[Raziaar]

So many betas in here.

Bitch I will **** you up! Get the **** out of my bowl.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Think off all the traffic Gawker has gotten from this one article. This shit's amazing.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Again, people can tell me I'm getting up in arms over something that's just "sticks and stones," but I really think this is symptomatic of a larger issue. I'm not saying that everyone who judges her in this way is some kind of horrible sexist super-bigot, but I will say that it's really ****ing inconsiderate and promotes a stereotype which makes some people's lives that much harder to live.

Oh boo hoo go cry me a river. "lives that much harder to live" good lord how much are we going to baby ADULTS here. Ridiculous. Yes this is mega-PC stuff you're spouting. If they seriously can't handle what people say about them maybe they should just remain hermits forever.

you sound like you got the hots for her. Why you all about defending her so badly? hahaha

 

[Krynn72]

I've still yet to hear any justification for this criticism being relevant or appropriate that doesn't boil down to "she started it!"

Does one need any justification to express opinions and make judgments on a person based on the actions said person took and the information given to the public? The subjects involved in this topic consist of two things. A) she judged a person's worth and overall attractiveness (not solely of the physical variety) on flimsy qualities such as his sexy hedge fund uniform in the "pro column" and magic tournament player in the "cons". And B) she made a public post about it. Is it so wrong to instinctively judge her worth and overall attractiveness using similar gauges once she introduced the concept? If a person laughed at someone else's joke, would you be inclined to laugh as well? If a person punched you in the gut, would you not have fight a sudden desire to return the favor? The lady passed judgement on some guy and made it public, so the public is passing judgement on her. Seems natural, and not at all insidious as you imply.

I'm not saying its a good thing to naturally want to do the same thing to her, but that its not weird or wrong.

 

[Eejit]

So, basically, you're being as much as a dick as she was being for writing the blog whilst pretending you're better than her because you're doing it in front of less people.

Okay, cool.

Hey, perhaps if you weren't on such a high horse you'd have been able to read my comments and see that my criticisms of her have been restricted to saying she had been "rude and nasty".
I'm defending the principle not my own words - I don't have to.

Yes, by being so disparaging about someone (in a very public forum) whom she was apparently pleasant to in person and risking their humiliation for some page views she acted in a two-faced manner deserving condemnation.
Most members here (besides the usual retards who went too far) have reasonably called her an asshole or a bitch. This is not two-faced as they are (I assume) not acquainted with her personally and acting in a different way to her face. It is also being done in private without humiliating her in front of random onlookers.

I'm sorry, but in what way is "she's ugly" a grievance?

I'm sorry, but in what way did I say it was?
I have been defending criticism of her in general I have not been part of the 'ugly' debacle tangent.

 

[KiplingsCat]

Oh boo hoo go cry me a river. "lives that much harder to live" good lord how much are we going to baby ADULTS here.

Oh really? Do you know what it's like to be repeatedly called an ugly bitch? Do you know how it feels to have people judging and commenting on your appearance all the bloody time even when it has nothing to do with what you're doing or saying? Do you know what it is to realize that, simply because you're a woman, lots and lots of people will never truly separate your actions from your appearance?

Where I go to college, most of the lecturers and professors are men, and as for the few (only two, in fact) women who hold that position, well, whenever we're discussing them and/or their abilities as lecturers, most of the students (male and female) feel completely free to say things like "yeah but she's so ugly" or "her ass looks big in that" and suchlike. They never say stuff like that about the male lecturers. Hearing stuff like this all the time, every day, everywhere, you begin to feel like the world is just a really hostile place for most women.

It's like there's just no separation between your actions and your looks when you're a woman. For most people, the two always seem to go hand in hand, no matter what you do. For lots of people here, the fact that this woman did something tasteless is connected somehow to her looks. As I leave college and go on to postgrad, teaching, whatever, I'm faced with the knowledge that, any time I stand up in front of a group of people, some of them are inevitably going to be judging my appearance. Saying things to each other like "her tits are too big" "her nose is kinda crooked" and other nonsense like that. Would it happen if I was a man? No, probably not, judging from my experience of life already.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Oh boo hoo go cry me a river. "lives that much harder to live" good lord how much are we going to baby ADULTS here. Ridiculous. Yes this is mega-PC stuff you're spouting. If they seriously can't handle what people say about them maybe they should just remain hermits forever.

you sound like you got the hots for her. Why you all about defending her so badly? hahaha

Haha good one you ****ing giant moron. I'd ask you to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change, but if you really think I'm being outspoken about this to white knight her on a private forum then I'm not sure how capable of that you are.

Does one need any justification to express opinions and make judgments on a person based on the actions said person took and the information given to the public? The subjects involved in this topic consist of two things. A) she judged a person's worth and overall attractiveness (not solely of the physical variety) on flimsy qualities such as his sexy hedge fund uniform in the "pro column" and magic tournament player in the "cons". And B) she made a public post about it. Is it so wrong to instinctively judge her worth and overall attractiveness using similar gauges once she introduced the concept? If a person laughed at someone else's joke, would you be inclined to laugh as well? If a person punched you in the gut, would you not have fight a sudden desire to return the favor? The lady passed judgement on some guy and made it public, so the public is passing judgement on her. Seems natural, and not at all insidious as you imply.

I'm not saying its a good thing to naturally want to do the same thing to her, but that its not weird or wrong.

Thanks for the treatise on the reactionary nature of human beings, but you've still done nothing to address the specific nature of people's criticisms. Yeah, I get it, it's instinctual, it's a natural reaction, but that in itself doesn't actually make it right or wrong. Excusable? Maybe, if people weren't still trying to justify it on other terms. Predictable? Definitely. So that means I don't get to speak out against it? Fair enough, let's not try to change anyone's behaviour ever and just let them go with their gut. What's the worst that could happen.

I'm sorry, but in what way did I say it was?
I have been defending criticism of her in general I have not been part of the 'ugly' debacle tangent.

My bad, I wasn't keeping track closely enough. I agree with the other stuff you said.

 

[Vegeta897]

any time I stand up in front of a group of people, some of them are inevitably going to be judging my appearance. Saying things to each other like "her tits are too big"

Naw but really, I think you have a good point. It's hard for men to imagine dealing with that their whole lives.

 

[hool10]

Oh really? Do you know what it's like to be repeatedly called an ugly bitch? Do you know how it feels to have people judging and commenting on your appearance all the bloody time even when it has nothing to do with what you're doing or saying? Do you know what it is to realize that, simply because you're a woman, lots and lots of people will never truly separate your actions from your appearance?

Where I go to college, most of the lecturers and professors are men, and as for the few (only two, in fact) women who hold that position, well, whenever we're discussing them and/or their abilities as lecturers, most of the students (male and female) feel completely free to say things like "yeah but she's so ugly" or "her ass looks big in that" and suchlike. They never say stuff like that about the male lecturers. Hearing stuff like this all the time, every day, everywhere, you begin to feel like the world is just a really hostile place for most women.

It's like there's just no separation between your actions and your looks when you're a woman. For most people, the two always seem to go hand in hand, no matter what you do. For lots of people here, the fact that this woman did something tasteless is connected somehow to her looks. As I leave college and go on to postgrad, teaching, whatever, I'm faced with the knowledge that, any time I stand up in front of a group of people, some of them are inevitably going to be judging my appearance. Saying things to each other like "her tits are too big" "her nose is kinda crooked" and other nonsense like that. Would it happen if I was a man? No, probably not, judging from my experience of life already.

Oh yeah definitely that would happen in college. However I also have seen the exact thing happen with girls together like "oh that guy has a nice butt" and so on. The guy though would probably be all like "damn right! Maybe I can hook up with that girl". I guess my point is it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Pulse]

This thread is great.

 

[dfc05]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/opinion/sunday/ugly-you-may-have-a-case.html?_r=2&src=tp
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/08/18/dan-hamermesh-answers-your-questions-about-beauty-pays/

Just an fyi, both men and women are affected by being ugly. Statistically, in careers, this is worse for men than women. Obviously this says nothing about social treatment. Just be aware that it's technically not correct to single out women as being more harmed by being ugly.
As for the dearth of female professors, that's primarily historical. Especially in engineering fields, there simply weren't enough female students in those fields back then to produce an even professor ratio now. Lately gender ratios among students have evened out except in electrical engineering, comp sci, and maybe mechanical engineering. So the male:female ratio in professorships should eventually even out.
As for grad school, I don't really understand appearance even being a concern. I'd say I spend about 80% of my worry-time on my current projects, 10% on what I'm going to do in 2 years, and 10% on things like health, insurance, how much money I'm spending, what to eat, and waking up in the morning. I have never worried about whether professors or other students think I'm attractive or not -- because nobody cares. If you're worrying about that in grad school, switch schools because they're doing it wrong. If you switch and are still worrying about that, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Yuri]

Oh really? Do you know what it's like to be repeatedly called an ugly bitch? Do you know how it feels to have people judging and commenting on your appearance all the bloody time even when it has nothing to do with what you're doing or saying? Do you know what it is to realize that, simply because you're a woman, lots and lots of people will never truly separate your actions from your appearance?

Where I go to college, most of the lecturers and professors are men, and as for the few (only two, in fact) women who hold that position, well, whenever we're discussing them and/or their abilities as lecturers, most of the students (male and female) feel completely free to say things like "yeah but she's so ugly" or "her ass looks big in that" and suchlike. They never say stuff like that about the male lecturers. Hearing stuff like this all the time, every day, everywhere, you begin to feel like the world is just a really hostile place for most women.

It's like there's just no separation between your actions and your looks when you're a woman. For most people, the two always seem to go hand in hand, no matter what you do. For lots of people here, the fact that this woman did something tasteless is connected somehow to her looks. As I leave college and go on to postgrad, teaching, whatever, I'm faced with the knowledge that, any time I stand up in front of a group of people, some of them are inevitably going to be judging my appearance. Saying things to each other like "her tits are too big" "her nose is kinda crooked" and other nonsense like that. Would it happen if I was a man? No, probably not, judging from my experience of life already.

im curious because of the theme of your comments in this thread-- it seems like you think that if it were vice-versa (asshole dude writing a condescending blog post about a female MTG champion), no one would have called the guy ugly.

which, if i had to guess, would definitely not be the case. people were outraged and looked for more reasons to scathe her. since the context was dating, in which appearance is undoubtedly a factor, they comment about that. if it was some guy with a similarly awkward photo, i would place a bet on people saying the same exact things. i really dont think the knee jerk reaction, in this specific case, exemplifies gender bias. but im not saying it doesnt exist. im also not saying that it would be relevant either way, but i would argue it is an understandable response.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Yeah, I'm sure people would have ragged on his appearance too had the tables been turned, but while I would still take issue with that, I don't think the two are directly comparable (except as a measure of how much a jerk the ragger is ). I've seen some of the same nastiness directed at less attractive guys (including myself, by some people's judgement), but I don't find that it's nearly as pervasive as it is for women in social circles, at least not from my second-hand experience. I don't know how much of this is a purely social or cultural thing, as opposed to a deeply-rooted biological impulse, but there's an ease with which people can judge a woman's appearance in regards to anything and everything about her character that I find pretty disconcerting.

That's just my experience, but it's confirmed by just about everything I read online and elsewhere. If anyone else sees it differently, I'm willing to accept information to the contrary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/opinion/sunday/ugly-you-may-have-a-case.html?_r=2&src=tp
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/08/18/dan-hamermesh-answers-your-questions-about-beauty-pays/

Just an fyi, both men and women are affected by being ugly. Statistically, in careers, this is worse for men than women. Obviously this says nothing about social treatment. Just be aware that it's technically not correct to single out women as being more harmed by being ugly.

This is actually kind of surprising, although I'm struggling to find any sources that back it up, except the one book I'm assuming this references. I'd be interested to know which kinds of jobs these are, or if it's just a broad swath of all sorts of stuff.

There are all kinds of strange statistics for employment, though. I think someone might have posted a while back about the study which showed that attractive women have a harder time getting jobs which are traditionally considered more masculine. It's certainly a concern for those affected, but I'm not sure that it's a great indicator of the general attitude towards less attractive people.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Oh really? Do you know what it's like to be repeatedly called an ugly bitch? Do you know how it feels to have people judging and commenting on your appearance all the bloody time even when it has nothing to do with what you're doing or saying? Do you know what it is to realize that, simply because you're a woman, lots and lots of people will never truly separate your actions from your appearance?

Haha yeah I do. You man up and get over it. It's no big deal.


If you care so much about what other people think that it really affects you, regardless of who or how much it is said, then you've got problems that require professional help. Just deal with it, that's the way it is.

Haha good one you ****ing giant moron. I'd ask you to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change, but if you really think I'm being outspoken about this to white knight her on a private forum then I'm not sure how capable of that you are.

lol just messing with you about 'white knighting' trying to rile you up. But what I was saying is still true- it's just a matter of manning up. "Boo hoo" I'm so sick of this "words hurt" crap. I see my young relatives in elementary school spending more time on 'words hurt' activities and anti bullying crap, 'being nice' than they do on math and English.

 

[KiplingsCat]

Haha yeah I do. You man up and get over it. It's no big deal.


If you care so much about what other people think that it really affects you, regardless of who or how much it is said, then you've got problems that require professional help. Just deal with it, that's the way it is.

Thing is though, everyday more or less there's something that I have to "just get over". It happens all the time. Misogyny is everywhere. And yeah, I do get over it. But that doesn't make it ok. That doesn't mean it should happen. That doesn't mean it isn't a huge problem for lots of people. And while I get over day-to-day incidents, every day I see people saying or doing nasty things to/about women simply because they're women, and it's just not ok with me. It shouldn't be ok with anyone because it isn't ok.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Thing is though, everyday more or less there's something that I have to "just get over".

Same thing for everybody else.

It happens all the time. Misogyny is everywhere. And yeah, I do get over it. But that doesn't make it ok. That doesn't mean it should happen. That doesn't mean it isn't a huge problem for lots of people. And while I get over day-to-day incidents, every day I see people saying or doing nasty things to/about women simply because they're women, and it's just not ok with me. It shouldn't be ok with anyone because it isn't ok.

It's really not as big of a deal as it's being made into. Maybe where you live, or the circle of people you associate with has more to do with your frequency of it. Either way who cares what someone says. Unless you're actively being DISCRIMINATED against for it, then its a non issue, its just somebody saying something. It when discrimination comes into play that it ever matters.

and just to remind everyone- the article writer really was an ugly bitch. Wasn't just grasping for something to hit at. She's not good looking, plus she's a bitch to that guy. She's an ugly bitch in the full sense of the phrase.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Thing is though, everyday more or less there's something that I have to "just get over". It happens all the time. Misogyny is everywhere. And yeah, I do get over it. But that doesn't make it ok. That doesn't mean it should happen. That doesn't mean it isn't a huge problem for lots of people. And while I get over day-to-day incidents, every day I see people saying or doing nasty things to/about women simply because they're women, and it's just not ok with me. It shouldn't be ok with anyone because it isn't ok.

I'm pretty sure they're insulting her because she's being a bitch.

 

[Yuri]

Thing is though, everyday more or less there's something that I have to "just get over". It happens all the time. Misogyny is everywhere. And yeah, I do get over it. But that doesn't make it ok. That doesn't mean it should happen. That doesn't mean it isn't a huge problem for lots of people. And while I get over day-to-day incidents, every day I see people saying or doing nasty things to/about women simply because they're women, and it's just not ok with me. It shouldn't be ok with anyone because it isn't ok.

why did you ignore my post am i really less interesting to you than somebody who's clearly trolling?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

why did you ignore my post am i really less interesting to you than somebody who's clearly trolling?

I'm actually not trolling. I'm posting the truth about the subject at hand.

 

[Yuri]

but you even admitted it

lol just messing with you about 'white knighting' trying to rile you up

isnt that the definition of trolling?