The reason the "door" may or may not be scripted

[redapex1029]

Honestly I think it is scripted but for this reason alone.
If you were going to show off your UNFINISHED game for the first time to the world wouldnt you want to make sure it ran 100% the way you wanted it to? If durring the e3 demo say the AI got stuck or the engine stumbled or a line of code got reversed valve would have looked like a joke -not to say that they dont not but thats another topic- I would have scripted it too just to make sure there was NO room for error in the code

 

[Cheetarah654]

were they playing the game live at E3? or just showing demos from the game. from what they said the reason the crowbar and shit didnt match up, water splashing etc, was because it was a demo.

they could have just taken whatever they wanted if it wasnt live

 

[crax]

...The e3 was showing a video of the recorded demo

 

[silent]

Good point, but who cares untill we're told the truth... Who knows when that will be.

 

[Dedalus]

hey dumbos

try doing something other than following the SAME ROUTE they took in the E3 trailer. no wonder you're complaining "oh it was alllll scripted".

it's cos you're doing the same ****ing thing they did in may. no wonder it's the same. if you stayed outside or if you didn't close the door then maybe something different would happen. hmm????? so thick i can't believe it.

USE YOUR ****IN HEAD YOU THIEVES.


ps. i'm very drunk so forgive any attitude.

 

[gragland]

Originally posted by Dedalus
hey dumbos

try doing something other than following the SAME ROUTE they took in the E3 trailer. no wonder you're complaining "oh it was alllll scripted".

it's cos you're doing the same ****ing thing they did in may. no wonder it's the same. if you stayed outside or if you didn't close the door then maybe something different would happen. hmm????? so thick i can't believe it.

USE YOUR ****IN HEAD YOU THIEVES.


ps. i'm very drunk so forgive any attitude.

No, the reason people are bitching, if you kill the guy outside of the door and then push the table in front of the door, the door still gets kicked open, even though theres no one there to kick it open.

 

[GorgeousOrifice]

Originally posted by redapex1029
Honestly I think it is scripted but for this reason alone.
If you were going to show off your UNFINISHED game for the first time to the world wouldnt you want to make sure it ran 100% the way you wanted it to? If durring the e3 demo say the AI got stuck or the engine stumbled or a line of code got reversed valve would have looked like a joke -not to say that they dont not but thats another topic- I would have scripted it too just to make sure there was NO room for error in the code

This is a reasonable assumption, and honestly makes a lot more sense than screaming "OMG VALVE LIED TO US THE AI IS TOTALLY SCRIPTED AND THEY SUCK".

Yet another reason why judging the game, or Valve, based on a stolen incomplete build is retarded.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by Dedalus
hey dumbos

try doing something other than following the SAME ROUTE they took in the E3 trailer. no wonder you're complaining "oh it was alllll scripted".

it's cos you're doing the same ****ing thing they did in may. no wonder it's the same. if you stayed outside or if you didn't close the door then maybe something different would happen. hmm????? so thick i can't believe it.

USE YOUR ****IN HEAD YOU THIEVES.


ps. i'm very drunk so forgive any attitude.

No offense but what do you think people are doing? Just trying traptown exactly how Valve played it and then moving on? I'm pretty sure people have tried that map in every possible combination.

 

[crax]

Originally posted by gragland
No, the reason people are bitching, if you kill the guy outside of the door and then push the table in front of the door, the door still gets kicked open, even though theres no one there to kick it open.

TRUE!

 

[Bridger]

Originally posted by gragland
No, the reason people are bitching, if you kill the guy outside of the door and then push the table in front of the door, the door still gets kicked open, even though theres no one there to kick it open.

Ever think that maybe the model for an enemy for some reason wasn't loaded? Maybe there is an enemy at the door, you just can't see the model because it's an UNFINISHED game, missing all kinds of parts including textures/models?

I hear when the "beta" starts up even in a small maps there are ALL KINDS of errors reported. There's a very good chance the door being kicked open is just another error in the unfinished game.

 

[jaguar_987]

Maybe the AI just wasnt finished when they showed it for e3. My guess is they scripted what they intended the AI to be like in the final release. Which in my opinion is exactly how the AI will be. No one would have known any difference and not known that the e3 demo was scripted unless something really wild was to happen like say the erm... leak.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I think people are stupid.

All AI must be coded. AI has historically been scripted. In Halflife two the AI is condtional and adaptive. As is it responds to how you play, it doesnt just do its thing anyway. If i was writing adaptive AI code, I would make damn sure if the player went into a building, the AI would follow him anyway they could. Its not scripted in the normal sense, its just the best AI path for that condition.

This gives it a level of "scriptedness". I mean code is written. Its not a brain. WTF DID YOU THINK AI WAS MAGICAL OR SOMETHING?

 

[gragland]

No, if you dont kill the badguy, he kickes opoen the door, if you do kill him, the door opens right when he "would have" kicked it open. But this is probably just for the e3 video, so vavle has control of what happens, i doubt the real game would be scripted. Its not exactly somehting you can get away with lying about. People can tell if something is scripted or not. So why would vavle say its all AI if in the real game its not.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by Oakey
No offense but what do you think people are doing? Just trying traptown exactly how Valve played it and then moving on? I'm pretty sure people have tried that map in every possible combination.

yeah i believe the people who have the beta have the mentality of a chimp and are just going by what they've seen someone else doing, since they saw everyone else was downloading the beta so they just had to have it themselves.

seriously don't take anything they say too seriously.

i didn't realise that the door was being kicked in every time you close it...but try not closing it! is it too difficult to shoot two guards or even throw a trash can at them to kill them? i think this is such a minor issue you shouldn't even mention it. it's inconsequential. have there been any other instances of apparent 'scripted sequences'. let me know. i'm sure it's simply because you dirty ****ing thieving bastards have a semi-finished set of AI routines.

stop judging HL2 on something that potentially isn't even worthy of an alpha release.

 

[Cander]

Possible Reasons:
The AI can still be "running" despite killing him. They dont physically kick open the door at all probably. It is a trigger that the AI fires off when it determines that it is the only way through the door. Despite a nonscripted sequence, you still need triggers and actions programmed for the AI to use when it determines its course of action.

 

[crax]

If something was missing it would say ERROR

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by gragland
No, if you dont kill the badguy, he kickes opoen the door, if you do kill him, the door opens right when he "would have" kicked it open. But this is probably just for the e3 video, so vavle has control of what happens, i doubt the real game would be scripted. Its not exactly somehting you can get away with lying about. People can tell if something is scripted or not. So why would vavle say its all AI if in the real game its not.

Hype. Every games is hyped up to the balls. Games companies are always saying how their game will do this and how it will do that and then the end product has none of what was promised. Please see Daikatana, Black & White, Republic: The Revolution and any number of other games for reference.

 

[Dsty2001]

All of you failed to mention the fact that the hacker himself had to compile together somebody elses code, and the fact he doesn't have all the code (There is no possible way) himself. Therefor, the game Isn't going to work 100%

The Hacker himself lied when he said that Valve didn't have any more, or any less. Obviously they did have more, or otherwise there wouldn't have been all of the Errors and Missing Files in the beta, which WAS NOT missing in the E3 demo.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by Dedalus
yeah i believe the people who have the beta have the mentality of a chimp and are just going by what they've seen someone else doing, since they saw everyone else was downloading the beta so they just had to have it themselves.

seriously don't take anything they say too seriously.

i didn't realise that the door was being kicked in every time you close it...but try not closing it! is it too difficult to shoot two guards or even throw a trash can at them to kill them? i think this is such a minor issue you shouldn't even mention it. it's inconsequential. have there been any other instances of apparent 'scripted sequences'. let me know. i'm sure it's simply because you dirty ****ing thieving bastards have a semi-finished set of AI routines.

stop judging HL2 on something that potentially isn't even worthy of an alpha release.

If you don't close it the know where you are and chase you around the building. If you have the notarget command on (makes you invisible), they stand around outside the building aimlessly, they don't run off to search for you. I can give you a number of sequences that are scripted on traptown, I just cba because I've been through it a million times today. Check out the 10 page thread on how it's scripted.

 

[soma]

You can't make a game completely unscripted. Not possible. Grow up, move on.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by soma
You can't make a game completely unscripted. Not possible. Grow up, move on.

Why can't you fanboys accept that traptown is completely scripted? Seriously, just accept what the people who have ACTUALLY tried this beta say, they have more basis for comparison than you do. It IS scripted, you can see this if you make yourself invisible to enemies. Walk up the stairs in the building, when you reach the top a grunt will begin shooting through the window. Why and how? You're invisible, enemies don't know where you are, for what reason would a grunt have to shoot at the window? Because it's triggered when you reach the top of the stairs that's why. And please, don't tell me some crap that maybe the Super AI heard my movement so decided to start shooting at some random window.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by soma
You can't make a game completely unscripted. Not possible. Grow up, move on.

that's so damn hilarious. my professors at university are creating AI that learns. ie. it isn't scripted as you say it is. so it's quite possible to create AI that mimicks human behaviour and doesn't 'script' as you say.

so do your research before you make rash comments.

oakley, think about this: the AI you have is not complete, it's probably missing large portions of pathfinding, threat assessment and beahavioural routines, so don't expect miracles from it. do the good thing and delete it off your HD and encourage others to do so.

you're doing nothing good by having it on your HD.

 

[Necro]

i know many people who have tested it with theyre copy and if you kill the guy the door doesnt open...

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by Oakey
Why can't you fanboys accept that traptown is completely scripted? Seriously, just accept what the people who have ACTUALLY tried this beta say, they have more basis for comparison than you do. It IS scripted, you can see this if you make yourself invisible to enemies. Walk up the stairs in the building, when you reach the top a grunt will begin shooting through the window. Why and how? You're invisible, enemies don't know where you are, for what reason would a grunt have to shoot at the window? Because it's triggered when you reach the top of the stairs that's why. And please, don't tell me some crap that maybe the Super AI heard my movement so decided to start shooting at some random window.

YES!!!! he's hit it!!


the BETA is scripted. ahhhh yes we've all got it now.

so format your HD and wait till the REAL HL2 is released. then we'll see how scripted it is you bunch of ****ing thieving monkeys.

 

[Cander]

Originally posted by Oakey
Why can't you fanboys accept that traptown is completely scripted? Seriously, just accept what the people who have ACTUALLY tried this beta say, they have more basis for comparison than you do. It IS scripted, you can see this if you make yourself invisible to enemies. Walk up the stairs in the building, when you reach the top a grunt will begin shooting through the window. Why and how? You're invisible, enemies don't know where you are, for what reason would a grunt have to shoot at the window? Because it's triggered when you reach the top of the stairs that's why. And please, don't tell me some crap that maybe the Super AI heard my movement so decided to start shooting at some random window.

Why cant you accept the fact that the beta you are using may be very old and in no way says anything about what Valve has done NOW depsite what a THIEF is telling you?

 

[Foggy]

I tested it too, it does NOT open if you shoot the guy, period.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by Cander
Why cant you accept the fact that the beta you are using may be very old and in no way says anything about what Valve has done NOW depsite what a THIEF is telling you?

Why do you come out with speculation? This beta could be 2 years old, it could be a month old. It's like this though, Valve announced they'd been hacked sometime in September, the game was supposedly 'finished'. Why would they have a really old build still on their network?

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by Foggy
I tested it too, it does NOT open if you shoot the guy, period.

right, very good, yes, we know that. Now then, shoot the guy before going in the building, close the door and push the table across it. Hear that grunt yell something? Hear and see the door being kicked? See anyone outside the window kicking it? no? exactly. the door doesn't open but it's still kicked!!!

 

[nw909]

Originally posted by Oakey
right, very good, yes, we know that. Now then, shoot the guy before going in the building, close the door and push the table across it. Hear that grunt yell something? Hear and see the door being kicked? See anyone outside the window kicking it? no? exactly. the door doesn't open but it's still kicked!!!

The grunt scared me ;(

 

[Dsty2001]

Oakey, obviously you are VERY FREAKING STUPID, have you ever took any programming classes? Do you know any programmers? Heck, have you even made a program? If not then STFU

This beta is OLDER than the E3 Demo, and if it is not, then the Hacker obviously lied when he said he had ALL of the data. If he HAD all the Data he needed, then there wouldn't be missing sequences, missing animations, missing textures, compression code, missing sound, ETC. ETC. IN THE LEAK. Get that into your TINY brain, and realise this LEAKED "BETA" does NOT reflect what Valve had at E3. Do you realise, this little "scripted" sequence everybody is crying over, can be fixed with 3 lines of code? It's a simple If & Then statement with a Loop inbetween. I SERIOUSLY doubt Valve is stupid enough to let a little issue like this last very long. My guess, is that this build is at least 5 months old, with missing files and code. If it is not 5 months old, then there is obviously alot of missing files that the Hacker did NOT get.

 

[Dsty2001]

Why would they have a really old build still on their network?

Actually, they probably would, some Programmers will keep Old Builds on there network to go back and see how a certain code they took out or added onto could cause a bug they have in the present.

 

[ParaBellum]

It is scripted, like a lot of things in the beta. I don't have a problem with that, but I did find the levels to be very linear. Hopefully, things will be more clear when HL2 comes out.

 

[mallet]

I think judgements should be reserved until the final game has been released by Valve.

Crazy, huh?

 

[RoyalFool]

Originally posted by Dsty2001
This beta is OLDER than the E3 Demo

That's funny, considering how many maps and scripts are named "e3"-something in the beta version.

Originally posted by Dedalus
hey dumbos

try doing something other than following the SAME ROUTE they took in the E3 trailer. no wonder you're complaining "oh it was alllll scripted".

it's cos you're doing the same ****ing thing they did in may. no wonder it's the same. if you stayed outside or if you didn't close the door then maybe something different would happen. hmm????? so thick i can't believe it.

USE YOUR ****IN HEAD YOU THIEVES.

Great way to discuss this in a civilized manner, throwing around expletitives and insults. The traptown map only has a single route. There's no going around the left or the right of the building; you gotta go inside and up the stairs, then down into the alley.

But of course you already knew that, didn't you?

 

[Mr Neutron]

Think of it this very simple way: valve said such behaviors will be in the AI (using associations between AI's and objects); whatever you see in the beta, they'd have to fix/implement it by the time they release. So what are people alleging here? That valve misrepresented the capabilities of their tech? Obviously, we can't determine that until we get the real thing. If you're not willing to take Valve's word about Hl2's progress, our current evidence won't help: either the "beta" represents the full game's current state or the hacker missed the real prize.

 

[Hawk8250]

When watching the traptown video again... I noticed that the first grunt who comes at you begins to fire at you through the window. Guess what? He continues to fire at you through the window while another grunt kicks open the door. Has anybody tried to kill the second grunt before he gets to the door?

 

[DooMSlave]

i dont know if this was mentioned , but an obviouse script scene that i saw, was in the town w/ the strider .. the strider does that attack before he walks under that walk way, but somethings odd , hes facing the wrong direction and shooting directly into a building to the left of the walk way , yet the walkway was blown up, and then he crouches, not facing the walkway , and walks , right through these 3 buildings to the left of the walkway , just cliped right into them and dissapeard .. now if thats not scripted .. thats some damn horrible ai.

 

[TaiFong]

Is the strider battle in the beta? What is the map's name?

 

[nickster]

The only time anybody from Valve mentioned something during the E3 demo about the AI's behavoir not being scripted was during the sequence when the scientists followed Gordon through the old buildings in the Barricade video. I believe Valve when they say this sequence was unscripted. They never said specifically that the door being kicked in wasn't scripted so they never lied. I hate what this hacker is doing, trying to justify theft.

 

[TheWart]

I am sorry if this post is not allowed (if so, please delete it), but I just wanted to add some things.

Firstly, I do *not* have the beta....how can you trust me you ask? Well, I run linux here at school, so that pretty much counts me out. *But*, I have a friend on my dorm hall who has the beta, and let me point out a few things.

- It is *very* strange what is going on. Either this build is from before e3, and the hacker is lying, or Valve completely redid tons of stuff since e3 as things that were in e3 are not present in the game. I am inclined to think the former, but that just does not make since if the hacker got the game in mid september.

- Indeed, I do not think *any* of the maps are close to 20% done (I only saw a few)....heck, the maps shown at e3 are missing 1/3 - 1/2 of the models/scripts etc.

So I don't know, something strange is definitely up. So strange that I would almost submit that the theory that fits the best is that the hacker actually manually cvompiled the source code with the artwork etc, as it seems like such a shoddy job. WHether or not this is feasible, I am not sure, as I am not a programmer (except for smalll unix stuff).

So, I am sorry if this post is against the rules, but I don't think I mentioned anything 'bad,' but I just wanted to point out some odd facets of the whole afair.