The reason the "door" may or may not be scripted

[Oakey]

Originally posted by PiMuRho
Obviously there's triggers. You don't want the AI using up CPU cycles on the other side of the map when you're not going to come across them for another 10 minutes. You also don't want the AI-controlled soldiers coming all the way across the map to get you the moment you spawn, do you?

Using triggers to activate AI events is not "scripting"- it's common sense, and used in practically every game of this type for the reasons I stated.

There's a difference between using triggers to activate the enemies and using triggers to make an enemy begin shooting at a window. Ie, it's not because the AI spotted you through the window and saw you at the top of the stairs that he started shooting at you but because you reached the top of the stairs and set a trigger that tells him to shoot through the window.

 

[azz0r]

Now youve lost me, Ive put my 50cent in, carry on

 

[Oakey]

Ok, let's imagine we could put the same map in to the Splinter Cell world, complete with shootable light blubs, etc. In Splinter Cell you could shoot out the lights and be in total darkness, then walk up the stairs silently. In Splinter Cell an enemy wouldn't know you're there and you'd get past trouble free. Or if you left the lights on and bounded up the stairs the chances are you'd be seen or heard and a guard would begin shooting at you. That's an example of intuitive AI.

In the HL2 world, (or the HL2 beta world at least) it doesn't matter how you approach the stairs, you could be invisible, no matter what that trigger will go off and that grunt WILL shoot through the window. That's not AI, that's just some scripted event.

If that was the final game then every time you replayed that map those sequence of events would always play out.

 

[azz0r]

Aha, now I understand, my big post makes sense then.

The normal ai combine is run off triggers. The leather jacket combines are independant ai's!

 

[bamdth47]

Jesus christ man this thread is RIDICULOUS!

The game has a STORYLINE, a plot. There is going to HAVE to be triggered events in order for the story to progress and for the correct sequence of actions to occur.

As people have said the yellow/blue combine have good AI, so there is no reason that the rest of the characters wont be brought up to the same level by the time the game is released.

IF, and there probably will be, there are scripted scenes in the game it will be to make the game MORE EXCITING AND ENJOYABLE for YOU. I for one am not going be playing half life 2 with triggers visible and being invisible to the AI.

E3 was a DEMONSTRATION, the BETA is a DEMONSTRATION ffs. Just because some of the actions are triggered it DOESNT MEAN THAT THE AI CANT DO THAT ANYWAY. It was probably scripted/triggered to MAKE CERTAIN it showcased these abilities at E3.

Now can you please STFU and talk some sense. These boards are filling up with ABSOLUTE CR@P!

<rant over>

 

[link84]

yea listen to bamdth47 they will have ai like the blue leather combine guys (i havent actually played or seen the beta run) it just wont be as good as them (are teh blue leather guys better then the average guy or are they grunts) well you get waht i mean thet grunts will have ai similiar to the uber combine guys but not the same cause you want the uber guys to be smarter but yea...

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by bamdth47
Jesus christ man this thread is RIDICULOUS!

The game has a STORYLINE, a plot. There is going to HAVE to be triggered events in order for the story to progress and for the correct sequence of actions to occur.

As people have said the yellow/blue combine have good AI, so there is no reason that the rest of the characters wont be brought up to the same level by the time the game is released.

IF, and there probably will be, there are scripted scenes in the game it will be to make the game MORE EXCITING AND ENJOYABLE for YOU. I for one am not going be playing half life 2 with triggers visible and being invisible to the AI.

E3 was a DEMONSTRATION, the BETA is a DEMONSTRATION ffs. Just because some of the actions are triggered it DOESNT MEAN THAT THE AI CANT DO THAT ANYWAY. It was probably scripted/triggered to MAKE CERTAIN it showcased these abilities at E3.

Now can you please STFU and talk some sense. These boards are filling up with ABSOLUTE CR@P!

<rant over>

Goddam fanboy ranting. Walking to the top of the stairs and triggering that event isn't relevant to the story, it's not essential to the storyline, it's just triggered to make you think the AI saw or heard you when they clearly didn't. If Valve are so sure about what they can acheive then they should have had a fully implemented version ready for E3, they shouldn't have had to rely on scripted or triggered events and seeing as it was JUST a showcase for E3 it makes no sense that they said non of it was scripted. The truth is, Valve never expected you to play the e3demo, no one was supposed to try it for themselves, they weren't expecting you to discover that it wasn't scripted.

*sigh* explaining this shit is like trying to teach a blind retard sign language

 

[fe-cologne]

ABSOLUTLY RIGHT bamdth47 !!!

This Thread sucks. We don't need such a discussion. All we need is a "all-saying-Statement" from VALVe.

Is that right ladies? :bounce:

 

[azz0r]

Originally posted by bamdth47
Jesus christ man this thread is RIDICULOUS!

The game has a STORYLINE, a plot. There is going to HAVE to be triggered events in order for the story to progress and for the correct sequence of actions to occur.

As people have said the yellow/blue combine have good AI, so there is no reason that the rest of the characters wont be brought up to the same level by the time the game is released.

IF, and there probably will be, there are scripted scenes in the game it will be to make the game MORE EXCITING AND ENJOYABLE for YOU. I for one am not going be playing half life 2 with triggers visible and being invisible to the AI.

E3 was a DEMONSTRATION, the BETA is a DEMONSTRATION ffs. Just because some of the actions are triggered it DOESNT MEAN THAT THE AI CANT DO THAT ANYWAY. It was probably scripted/triggered to MAKE CERTAIN it showcased these abilities at E3.

Now can you please STFU and talk some sense. These boards are filling up with ABSOLUTE CR@P!

<rant over>

I agree upto the point where you state it was showcased for e3, because Ive played through levels that werent played at e3, and theyre exactly the same; scripted.

 

[bamdth47]

LMAO, scripted events can actually make a game BETTER and MORE exciting. There is only a limit to what they can do with the AI so to make sure it does something exciting at a certain point to shit you up or whatever they add a trigger and script it.

it's not essential to the storyline, it's just triggered to make you think the AI saw or heard you when they clearly didn't.

YOU are not meant to think anything YOU are not meant to play this. How can you say that the AI wouldn't have shot at you anyway without the trigger? You cant. IT A ****ING TECH DEMO, not the proper game.

You can slag the game when it comes out if its shit.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

Originally posted by Oakey
You also get a reward for repeating shit we've discussed repeatedly. When you kill the guard, and close the door, and push the table across, that triggers the "Freeman!!" sound file and the kick at the door. The door ISN'T, I repeat, ISN'T kicked open but it IS kicked EVEN THOUGH there is NO ONE outside.

the door isnt kicked at all. The guy yelling freeman when u close the door is on the balcony(not the one that shoots through the window) There is another one that yells freeman who happens to be on the balcony on the upper right side of where you start at traptown. Sadly you didnt notice this. And no the DOOR WAS NOT KICKED. Nor was it kicked open.

You are one of those guys that will debate your point forever. No matter what your point is. Even if the thing that rpoves you wrong is right behind your back or inf ront of your face. sometimes pride comes stronger than intelligence. I'm not trying to insult you man, merely trying to get you to understand your wrong heh.

I would also like to mention on traptown(there is a bug where a certain soldier model will not display), which i keep trying to tell you, which is why your door may be getting kicked, it doesnt happen to everyone.

". If Valve are so sure about what they can acheive then they should have had a fully implemented version ready for E3,"

This is all your assumptions based on a version thatw as compiled by a hacker, whom also got out with the e3maps, but not the models for e3...with the intention to defame valve. and you are merely portrayiong his exact intentions here.

Your playing e3 maps on a pre e3 version of the code. And your not understanding this. Thats why i said your silleh. Really silleh.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

heh. Glad thats sorted. :cheers:

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by bamdth47
LMAO, scripted events can actually make a game BETTER and MORE exciting. There is only a limit to what they can do with the AI so to make sure it does something exciting at a certain point to shit you up or whatever they add a trigger and script it.



YOU are not meant to think anything YOU are not meant to play this. How can you say that the AI wouldn't have shot at you anyway without the trigger? You cant. IT A ****ING TECH DEMO, not the proper game.

You can slag the game when it comes out if its shit.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

How can I say the enemy wouldn't have shot me anyway? Because it's freakin spawned when you hit the trigger you dumbass. Because when you use the invisible command (notarget) it still shoots at the window when you hit the trigger even though it isn't aware you're there!!!

Scripted events make a game better and more exciting? Will you be thinking that when you come to play it the 2nd time? Or a 3rd? Unlikely, you'll be thinking "a zombie will jump out of that window there, a grunt will shoot through that window, 2 grunts will come through that door", etc, etc.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

MY FECKING GOD


AI IS NOT EVERYTHING


Do we agree that HL1 was a great game. I bloody hope so. Because there are tonnes of scripted events there which are much more obvious. MOST ALL SINGLE PLAYER GAMES USE TRIGGER SCRIPTS


GET OVER IT

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

oakley, illt ell you what, when hl2 comes out and you see the difference. Please leave the community quietly to never come back. Is that a deal, because your going to feel really foolish than. I mean really really foolish, heh.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by killahsin-[CE]
the door isnt kicked at all. The guy yelling freeman when u close the door is on the balcony(not the one that shoots through the window) There is another one that yells freeman who happens to be on the balcony on the upper right side of where you start at traptown. Sadly you didnt notice this. And no the DOOR WAS NOT KICKED. Nor was it kicked open.

You are one of those guys that will debate your point forever. No matter what your point is. Even if the thing that rpoves you wrong is right behind your back or inf ront of your face. sometimes pride comes stronger than intelligence. I'm not trying to insult you man, merely trying to get you to understand your wrong heh.

I would also like to mention on traptown(there is a bug where a certain soldier model will not display), which i keep trying to tell you, which is why your door may be getting kicked, it doesnt happen to everyone.

". If Valve are so sure about what they can acheive then they should have had a fully implemented version ready for E3,"

This is all your assumptions based on a version thatw as compiled by a hacker, whom also got out with the e3maps, but not the models for e3...with the intention to defame valve. and you are merely portrayiong his exact intentions here.

Your playing e3 maps on a pre e3 version of the code. And your not understanding this. Thats why i said your silleh. Really silleh.

It's a shame you contradict yourself:

And no the DOOR WAS NOT KICKED

and then

which i keep trying to tell you, which is why your door may be getting kicked, it doesnt happen to everyone.

So first you SHOUT and insist the door isn't kicked, that acknowledge that there's a 'bug' and that the door doesn't get kicked for everyone. Wow, truly, wow. That's some coherent argument you have there. Dude, when the grunt is killed, and the table in place, the door is still kicked. When I get home I will make a video just to prove this to you as you fail to understand this.

 

[fe-cologne]

YYYYYRES!!!! Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

oakley elarn to read i said after that that sometimes a certain soldier model does not get displayed and that is why YOUR DOOR MIGHT BE GETTING KICKED.



Dude wake up.

 

[Oakey]

Originally posted by killahsin-[CE]
oakley elarn to read i said after that that sometimes a certain soldier model does not get displayed and that is why YOUR DOOR MIGHT BE GETTING KICKED.



Dude wake up.

That's BS. As for your previous comment, you've gone off the beaten track, this thread was originally about how traptown is scripted when we were told it isn't. Anyway, time to go home.

 

[Netherscourge]

I going to throw this in here.

I haven't see nthe video in a while, so I may be mistaken...

When he walks into the room/shed and closes the door, as far as I recall there was only 1 guard persuing him. The guard walks over to the window and fires in through the window. BUT I could have sworn there was a 2nd guard that kicks open the door while the other guard is firing at you from the window.

I think the 2nd guard that kicks open the door may be scripted because he wasn't chasing you - but the one at the window is legit. The guard that kicks open the door is probably added by the game - perhaps if in the demo that guard at the window is killed BEFORE he went into that room/shed, we would know for sure.

I may be wrong - can someone look at it again and tell me if there is 1 or 2 guards at that point in the game?

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

dude, all maps have triggers, the ai has nothing to do with the map but with the ENGINE. Your complaining about ai based on an engine that isnt even supposed to run those e3 maps. Hell you cant even run all of them, because they were made on newer versions, try running the e3 hl2logo map try running the prison maps. Dude I'm sick of clueless people spouting their mouth of trying to defame a company, when they dont know shit about what they are talking about. Yes, that is you. Yes, that is what your doing. Your wastign everyones time here. And your trying to make some big point for the hacker about how valve lied about this and valve lied about that. Your a silleh person. With no clue what he is talking about.

And no its not bs, its the truth. When u see 1 guard at the beggining the door gets kicked, when u see 2 guards the door does NOT GET KICKED.

 

[Netherscourge]

I could care less if it's scripted or not, honestly. It looks great either way and I'm still buying the game - as will every single person here bitching about it.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

i agree neth, but it just tickles my nerves when people start to trash a company with all this evidence and they have no clue what they are speaking about.

And yes everyone here will buy the game, and than oakey and others like him will feel silleh. I'm sorry for flaming but damn, the sky is falling the sky is falling etc etc, its getting old.

 

[bamdth47]

Gamera
Headcrab

Registered: Oct 2003
How does the AI work, and was it all really scripted?

Little information is available on the actual AI mechanisms used but generally the algorithm consists of a number of "finite states" in a FSM (fininte state machine). These states include attacking, retreating and yes, following a scripted event, these states will have different "weights," the heaviest has the most priority. If a chatacter is getting hurt alot it's retreat weight will become the heaviest and it will retreat or hide, when safe the weight will transfer again to attacking.

There's no real standard way to do this, you just fiddle with it until it feels right, doubtless Valve have spent countless hours balancing it just right until they get realistic movement. It's very hard indeed to steal thoes hours of balancing. Any games using phonetic extraction in the next couple of years will be looked at very closely.

Now onto scripts. The lab is for demonstating facial movement and lip synching, Phystown is for demonstrating physics, the City17 street is for demonstating the AI. When Gabe says that nothing you're seeing here is scripted he's talking about the City17 street, the game obviously does have scripts or there would be no story. In the lab Alyx is talking, something flys past the window and then a Strider bursts through the wall, a scripted story event, quite blatantly Gabe was not talking about the entire game.

Valve were coming upto E3 still making the videos to show, they needed to make a Phystown video very quickly and scripted a couple of small events to save them having to re-record it dozens of times until they got exactly what they wanted, the AI in itself is not scripted although it can diverge to tell part of the story and then back again to normal movement.

As good as explanation as any ive seen.

 

[Netherscourge]

LOL

Valve could come out today and say "Yes, we totally lied about the scripted sequences in Traptown. We know you suckers will buy anything we say, so we made it up" and everyone here will still buy the game the first day it comes out.

No point in bashing a game you KNOW you will buy no matter how much it is scripted or HOW much Valve lies to you. You will buy it without hesitation and then you'll lie about not buying it on the forums and pretend you are playing a hacked warez version to make yourself look cool.

It's true and you ALL know it.

 

[sys202]

Okay moderators, what about this "Do NOT Discuss The Illegal HL2 Release" notice eh?

 

[fez]

Originally posted by bamdth47
Gamera
Headcrab

Registered: Oct 2003
How does the AI work, and was it all really scripted?

Little information is available on the actual AI mechanisms used but generally the algorithm consists of a number of "finite states" in a FSM (fininte state machine). These states include attacking, retreating and yes, following a scripted event, these states will have different "weights," the heaviest has the most priority. If a chatacter is getting hurt alot it's retreat weight will become the heaviest and it will retreat or hide, when safe the weight will transfer again to attacking.

There's no real standard way to do this, you just fiddle with it until it feels right, doubtless Valve have spent countless hours balancing it just right until they get realistic movement. It's very hard indeed to steal thoes hours of balancing. Any games using phonetic extraction in the next couple of years will be looked at very closely.

Now onto scripts. The lab is for demonstating facial movement and lip synching, Phystown is for demonstrating physics, the City17 street is for demonstating the AI. When Gabe says that nothing you're seeing here is scripted he's talking about the City17 street, the game obviously does have scripts or there would be no story. In the lab Alyx is talking, something flys past the window and then a Strider bursts through the wall, a scripted story event, quite blatantly Gabe was not talking about the entire game.

Valve were coming upto E3 still making the videos to show, they needed to make a Phystown video very quickly and scripted a couple of small events to save them having to re-record it dozens of times until they got exactly what they wanted, the AI in itself is not scripted although it can diverge to tell part of the story and then back again to normal movement.

As good as explanation as any ive seen.

oakey, read that. then read it again then keep reading it until it soaks into ur skull and u stfu babbling stupid shit about valve lying about HL2 having scripted sequences

 

[Netherscourge]

Originally posted by sys202
Okay moderators, what about this "Do NOT Discuss The Illegal HL2 Release" notice eh?

 

[azz0r]

Originally posted by sys202
Okay moderators, what about this "Do NOT Discuss The Illegal HL2 Release" notice eh?

I hate little snivvling bitches, let the moderators do there job. Theyve replied in here and obviously have no problem with it, if you do then dont come in here, worm.

 

[sys202]

Originally posted by azz0r
I hate little snivvling bitches, let the moderators do there job. Theyve replied in here and obviously have no problem with it, if you do then dont come in here, worm.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive.
But the moderator doesn't seem to be consistent in emphasizing the rules... I'm getting mixed messages from the mods. Can not discuss HL2 leaks and can discuss HL2 leaks. :S

 

[azz0r]

Because were not posting 'OMGZ!!!!! L:OOK AT DIS SHOT OF LIEK ALYX KILLING DOG!!1' were posting information about the ai and theorisizing how it works.

 

[sys202]

Originally posted by azz0r
Because were not posting 'OMGZ!!!!! L:OOK AT DIS SHOT OF LIEK ALYX KILLING DOG!!1' were posting information about the ai and theorisizing how it works.

Again, sorry if I offense you. Sincere apology. About that screenshot thread, yes, that is my bad, my stupidity. Wasn't thinking. Thought it was hilarious, but no. My Dumbness. I was about to delete it but then it's deleted already. So.. sorry again.

 

[commando]

ok i was wondering who here thinks the ai is scripted and who here doesn't...i for one don't.

i mean everyone is saying how valve lied about the ai not being scripted....well COME on guys, When we have the game, and SDK, and make our own levels..we will then really know if valve lied or not about the ai being scripted or not.

why would valve say the ai is scripted, then release a game and sdk..for us to make our own levels with ai, only to realise that we have to do alot or scripting for ai.

i think the hacker is right about the source code and all that, but is telling us lies about other things to make us hate valve and not BUY the game.

the E3 scene we watched with the Door opening. (well a door is not an AI) also maybe gordon closed the door and if you don't put the table in the way, then the combine still has to hit the door down to open it.

there could be so many reasons for this and i think we all have to wait and see when the game comes out. BUT i still think VALVE are not lying anout a game THEY made! lol

 

[sys202]

Originally posted by commando
ok i was wondering who here thinks the ai is scripted and who here doesn't...i for one don't.

I don't have the game yet, so I don't know what to say, oh well.

 

[MoJo|Night]

OK i just skipped about 5 pages of this. I just want to clarrify something.

It appears that the stolen code is from september but the leaked beta is from the run up to E3. Why would they have E3 named levels in the FINAL game???

Just wait for the final release and play something else until you can play the real HL2 legally.

Edit: speeling arrors

 

[Cander]

Originally posted by MoJo|Night
OK i just skipped about 5 pages of this. I just want to clarrify something.

It appears that the stolen code is from september but the leaked beta is from the run up to E3. Why would they have E3 named levels in the FINAL game???

Just wait for the final release and play something else until you can play the real HL2 legally.

Edit: speeling arrors

Ironic you edited for spelling errors, the mispelled spelling.

just kidding with you.

 

[silent]

I was gonna say Who Cares, but then I thought, if nobody cares, then how would this forum exist. Pretty twilight zonish eh?

 

[MoJo|Night]

Oh no I mispelled errors as well ;-)

 

[Someone]

If the game rocks than I won't care of the entire thing is scripted. I think the whole "scritped" vs "not scripted" thing is incredibly overrated. If it's good, who cares?

And when we are talking about a stolen build of the game, who really can say much of anything about it? They obviously wanted to DEMONSTRATE the game...they weren't interested in ALL of the details of every single thing in the game...they just wanted to display it and say, "Here is Half life 2." Period.

They clearly made "things" work a specific way in the E3 stuff to show it off, so it's incredibly unfair to assume too much based on this build. Until we get the final game in hand there is NO possible way to determine what will or will not be in the game.

Anything the hacker says doesn't mean much. To say "This is all there is," based on what Gabe's computer contained it just silly. Gabe isn't building the game himself so the majority of code surely would be elsewhere.

If Gabe, VALVe, says things aren't scripted than I will believe them.

 

[Naveed]

Originally posted by Oakey

In the HL2 world, (or the HL2 beta world at least) it doesn't matter how you approach the stairs, you could be invisible, no matter what that trigger will go off and that grunt WILL shoot through the window. That's not AI, that's just some scripted event.

If that was the final game then every time you replayed that map those sequence of events would always play out.

I have randomly selected above quote among many that say game is scripted. Dumheads you are judginsg a game on ALPHA/BETA or whatever because you don't even know the build date. All your shit assumptions are based on STOLEN code!

All you arguments suck because they are based on something that has no foundation. Imagine if HL2 released without being leaked and you would have playing it and praising it, or if it didn't turn out to be spectacular or scripted then you would have been justified to criticize it. But you are spitting shit based on something you don't even know, you believe what that !@#@ing hacker is telling you, or may be you are Doom 3 fans, who finally found something bad about half-life 2 to say.

I am surprised by authority of comments. "This game is scripted, period." I would be among the first in line flaming valve if game turned out to be scripted like grunt kicking the door even after being killed, but before playing the final version, and making all assumptions based on some STOLEN code, where you can't even tell the timeframe for the code is @#@$ing stupid.