The shit has hit the fan.... And a question about free trade/globalization.

[15357]

Thank you. I did a massive search for them

Yeah, I loled at that too, until I realized that that could be me in a few year's time. D:

I've got more photos, if anyone wants them.

 

[CptStern]

such dramatic pictures ..how come there's never any of the protestors being beaten ..surely that happens every once in awhile ..surely they'd post some pics just to sate public desire for revenge after their beloved Thought Police ..errr combat police were so disrespectfully attacked by traitorous scum posing as south koreans



oh btw here's the flipside ..cops outnumber protestors 19 to 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuGIplPRvM4

http://www.videovat.com/videos/430/north-korea-police-brutality.aspx

surely even you must be aware of this incident:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/752055.stm

 

[Pax]

An incident 26 years ago.

Sorry Stern, but I can also yell "all palestinians are killers!" and show a news article from 1972 on the Munich shootings.

But let's be perfectly sane about this, the Combat Police are conscripts. They are guys in their 2nd year of university who get drafted into the army and given shields to "mop up riots". Riots which are sparked by politics and economics. Riots where these conscript forces are send towards by the government with the message 'clean it up'.

If we must blame these conscripts for causing harm because they are facing violent protesters and because they are under orders of an even more violent government. Then let's all head out into the streets and lynch everyone who is wearing any form of uniform. Hell, even bellhops because their suits radiate silliness.

String them up I say! For surely these protesters who throw molotov cocktails and are armed with bamboo pikes are merely here for a peaceful protest.

I've seen protest, I've been in a couple over here in the Netherlands. And hell, there are run-ins with the riot police. But never have I've seen a protest being run with molotov cocktails and bamboo pikes.

You make it look as if these conscripts are out to break noses and kick kneecaps. And the protesters are dictated by an evil regime.

I <3 you Sterny, but sometimes you are just an overkill socialist. There's two sides to a coin.

- Pax

 

[CptStern]

the video was from 2006 .. amensty international condemned SK for the brutality in putting down the farmers protest ..you're comparing two (dis)separate events

..the incident in from 1980 is significant because it was a protest to instate democracy ...something Numbers hold dear ..it's an example of how a civil movement shaped his country ..it's positive rather than the negative that Numbers always seems to push

I'm not saying that the protestors are justified in using violence ..however I am pointing out that there's a flipside to that story ..one that the SK government would rather you didnt hear

 

[Pax]

the video was from 2006 .. amensty international condemned SK for the brutality in putting down the farmers protest ..you're comparing two (dis)separate events

..the incident in from 1980 is significant because it was a protest to instate democracy ...something Numbers hold dear ..it's an example of how a civil movement shaped his country ..it's positive rather than the negative that Numbers always seems to push

I'm not saying that the protestors are justified in using violence ..however I am pointing out that there's a flipside to that story ..one that the SK government would rather you didnt hear

Ah, fair enough.

But to jump a bit further into your garden, something drove these protesters to using molotov cocktails and bamboo pikes.

I blame the government. But not the conscripts who are just doing what they are pressed into.

- Pax

 

[CptStern]

by images/propaganda diseminated by the government ..there's also a series of videos that show police beating to death a few individuals ..it's quite graphic ..but it's also on a site that has porn and shows other shocking videos (beheadings etc) ...so I didnt post them

..and you're right the fire bombs etc has to be in response to something or else firebombing would be the norm around the world ..I've been to a half dozen large protests ..not once have I witnessed any sort of violence ..the last anti-war peace march I went to a few friends of mine brought their young children ..and many other people did the same ..it was completely peaceful from start to finish

 

[Ome_Vince]

/me points to the many violent LA riots.
Its true in a lot of protests go peacefully, but for some reason weird reason i don't know -> many don't, i remember seeing an enormous riot in the States when certain Football fans had a party that they won the Superbowl -> this eventually turned out into a full scale riot! (why, i mean you guys won right )

In Europe we have similar issues with Soccer.
Some ppl just go berserk in protests .

 

[CptStern]

riot does not equal protest ...they're two completely different things ..protests are usually organised ..riots are not. and again I've been to a few protests, never have I seen violence

 

[15357]

such dramatic pictures ..how come there's never any of the protestors being beaten ..surely that happens every once in awhile ..surely they'd post some pics just to sate public desire for revenge after their beloved Thought Police ..errr combat police were so disrespectfully attacked by traitorous scum posing as south koreans

Because:

#1. 492 Combat Police were hospitalized, 35 with severe burns/permanent injuries in the 6 months of 2006 alone. 5 Military Police were also hospitalized with severe head injuries after Pyeongtaek and Daechuri.

#2. About 100 (and this is by protester groups) were injured, and only 15 needed hospital treatment, and only 1 person was injured permanently in the year 2006.

oh btw here's the flipside ..cops outnumber protestors 19 to 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuGIplPRvM4

Daechuri eviction: Protesters went in first, while repeatedly told not to go in due to hazards (such as moving tanks and equipment!). Protesters came armed, although that video doesn't show the beginning, they attacked first. That place that the protesters were pushed into were military property as well.

http://www.videovat.com/videos/430/north-korea-police-brutality.aspx

Judging by the shields, 2004? 2005? 2nd FTA trade deal. According to all the accounts, protesters used bottles of acid and crashed cars into the police formation.

surely even you must be aware of this incident:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/752055.stm

[/QUOTE]

Gwangju Riots. Happened nearly 25 years ago. In the 5th Republic. This is the 6th Republic.

by images/propaganda diseminated by the government ..there's also a series of videos that show police beating to death a few individuals ..it's quite graphic ..but it's also on a site that has porn and shows other shocking videos (beheadings etc) ...so I didnt post them

Nobody, save for 1 person in 2004, has been killed directly by police hits in a protest since 1991.

..and you're right the fire bombs etc has to be in response to something or else firebombing would be the norm around the world ..I've been to a half dozen large protests ..not once have I witnessed any sort of violence ..the last anti-war peace march I went to a few friends of mine brought their young children ..and many other people did the same ..it was completely peaceful from start to finish

Oh ho ho ho, anti war? Let me post a few anti war protest pics.

It may be hard to believe, but people protested for peace... by burning down police vehicles.

In red letters: NO SENDING TROOP TO IRAQ! NO MORE WAR!

riot does not equal protest ...they're two completely different things ..protests are usually organised ..riots are not. and again I've been to a few protests, never have I seen violence

You've gone all to the wrong places.

 

[kirovman]

You've gone all to the wrong places.

Ah, so violence is happening in all the right places?

 

[15357]

Eh, I'll get back to you on that.

 

[CptStern]

Because:

#1. 492 Combat Police were hospitalized, 35 with severe burns/permanent injuries in the 6 months of 2006 alone. 5 Military Police were also hospitalized with severe head injuries after Pyeongtaek and Daechuri.

#2. About 100 (and this is by protester groups) were injured, and only 15 needed hospital treatment, and only 1 person was injured permanently in the year 2006.

i'm very interested as to where you got your facts because they make no sense:

Up to 130 people are reported injured after 13,000 riot police and 3000 troops were deployed today against 700 campaigners and farmers protesting against the eviction of their village.

that's in a single day ..you said 100 in an entire year ..clearly you are wrong

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us/document.do?id=ENGASA250042006

Daechuri eviction: Protesters went in first, while repeatedly told not to go in due to hazards (such as moving tanks and equipment!). Protesters came armed, although that video doesn't show the beginning, they attacked first. That place that the protesters were pushed into were military property as well.

they were being evicted from THEIR land to make way for a US military base

these are the people your government evicted

they demolished over 60 homes and forced people out of their livelihood


this is something your government never shows

http://www.voiceofpeople.org/news/upload_200607/46676-546686frend2_NQ7E9427.jpg

http://www.funnyclipcentral.com/content/nkbrutality.php

Judging by the shields, 2004? 2005? 2nd FTA trade deal. According to all the accounts, protesters used bottles of acid and crashed cars into the police formation.

every person being beaten in that video was carrying acid/or crashed cars into police formations? I didnt know thousands of people can drive a single car

Gwangju Riots. Happened nearly 25 years ago. In the 5th Republic. This is the 6th Republic.

and? as many as 2000 people died (although the government claims 191) ..it's still an example of how civil disobedience helped change your government ..also an example of the brutality your government is capable of which you seem to purposefully ignore

Nobody, save for 1 person in 2004, has been killed directly by police hits in a protest since 1991.

I'll pm you the videos later tonight when I get a chance

Oh ho ho ho, anti war? Let me post a few anti war protest pics.



It may be hard to believe, but people protested for peace... by burning down police vehicles.



In red letters: NO SENDING TROOP TO IRAQ! NO MORE WAR!

really? ...so every person in this photo is guilty of that level of violence ..if true your streets must continually run red with the blood of combat police

funny how you never post images such as this:

You've gone all to the wrong places.

how many have you attended?




funny how you never mention this form of protest

Demonstrations, accepted and widespread as they are, are now but one facet of public debate. The traditional protest repertoire of marches, sit-ins, stones and Molotov cocktails is evolving. Some of the new techniques remain confrontational, even violent. Others rely on technology, subtlety, inner strength and community.

http://www.kyotojournal.org/kjselections/koreanprotest.html

 

[kirovman]

But... but... they defy fatherland!

 

[CptStern]

well then ..off with their heads!

 

[15357]

i'm very interested as to where you got your facts because they make no sense:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesty international
Up to 130 people are reported injured after 13,000 riot police and 3000 troops were deployed today against 700 campaigners and farmers protesting against the eviction of their village.

that's in a single day ..you said 100 in an entire year ..clearly you are wrong

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us/documen...NGASA250042006

Enough to be hospitalized with more than 4 weeks of treatment.

www.newrightkorea.org

they were being evicted from THEIR land to make way for a US military base

these are the people your government evicted

Lol. In which they didn't even live in.

really? ...so every person in this photo is guilty of that level of violence ..if true your streets must continually run red with the blood of combat police

Same goes for the Combat Police.

funny how you never post images such as this:

Well, I'm arguing on police tactics, aren't I? That is a protest where there are no police in riot gear.

funny how you never mention this form of protest


Quote:
Demonstrations, accepted and widespread as they are, are now but one facet of public debate. The traditional protest repertoire of marches, sit-ins, stones and Molotov cocktails is evolving. Some of the new techniques remain confrontational, even violent. Others rely on technology, subtlety, inner strength and community.

http://www.kyotojournal.org/kjselect...anprotest.html

lolololololol.

What they did in the US:

All good, right?

Except for her.... But very peaceful...

What the same protesters did back in Korea:

yesterday:

Exactly 1 month ago:

Note the stolen shields:

Oh, and stern, found part 2 of your video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBNLs8twL5I&mode=related&search=

edit: (shit forgot)

and? as many as 2000 people died (although the government claims 191) ..it's still an example of how civil disobedience helped change your government ..also an example of the brutality your government is capable of which you seem to purposefully ignore

Lololololololololol, "civil" disobedience. I'm sure that killing soldiers is very "civil".

 

[spookymooky]

It's seems to me your riot troops could be better trained. Shouldn't they present a single unbreakable wall of shields to the rioters? They should look strong so that the people don't attack. In those first couple of videos, the rioters look braver, better organized, and better equipped than the police.

 

[15357]

Single unbreakable wall of shields makes for great molotov targets, I'd imagine.


Besides, intimidation is achieved by overwhelming force (ie, guns). which is something that they don't have.

 

[CptStern]

Enough to be hospitalized with more than 4 weeks of treatment.

www.newrightkorea.org

whom are you referring to? one of the 130 injured ..your link doesnt work btw ..perhaps you can find another source that says only 100 have been injured in all of 2006? I have noted that to you the 130 people injured got what they deserved ..even though they were elderly and outnumbered by 19 to 1

Lol. In which they didn't even live in.

source? are you saying that the village was empty but they were removed for the hell of it?

Same goes for the Combat Police.

that makes no sense ..you imply that all protestors involve themselves in violence ..yet with the sheer number of protestors that's physically impossible without the streets running red

Well, I'm arguing on police tactics, aren't I? That is a protest where there are no police in riot gear.

police tactics? I've provided video evidence of police beating civilians with absolutely NO provocation ..is police "tactics" synomynous with police brutality?

lolololololol.

What they did in the US:


All good, right?


Except for her.... But very peaceful...

What the same protesters did back in Korea:


Note the stolen shields

yet you ignore the candlelight vigils or the peaceful marches ...you're taking one small part of the protest and trying to pass it off as the only aspect of protesting ..which couldnt be further from the truth ..yet I clearly see there is no hope for you ..a year or two from now it will be you who is busting heads at a protest blissfully unaware that you are doing a disservice to your own country ..that your ideology is meaningless as you become just another tool in keeping the status quo for the government ..you're not part of the solution but rather the problem

 

[nofx]

why is this being argued everyone knows if you give someone liberties and takes them away they will riot or harangue.

btw awesome pictures it's inspiring to a point then scary.
i bet michael bakunin would orgasm if he seen some of these.

 

[15357]

Damn, site's down again..

whom are you referring to? one of the 130 injured ..your link doesnt work btw ..perhaps you can find another source that says only 100 have been injured in all of 2006? I have noted that to you the 130 people injured got what they deserved ..even though they were elderly and outnumbered by 19 to 1

Well, what exactly would you expect to get when you use bamboo spears against the police?

source? are you saying that the village was empty but they were removed for the hell of it?

They came in only when they heard that the US would be building a base there.

that makes no sense ..you imply that all protestors involve themselves in violence ..yet with the sheer number of protestors that's physically impossible without the streets running red

That's why the police have protective gear.

police tactics? I've provided video evidence of police beating civilians with absolutely NO provocation ..is police "tactics" synomynous with police brutality?

I've provided video evidence of civillians beating police with absolutely no provocation. (actually, Pax did). Is protesting synomynous with beating the police?

yet you ignore the candlelight vigils or the peaceful

I don't actually care when they're peaceful. I only note that violent protesting should be wiped out, not all protesting.

marches ...you're taking one small part of the protest and trying to pass it off as the only aspect of protesting ..

It's a pretty big part of protests, considering the number of iron pipes the police have taken away.

which couldnt be further from the truth ..yet I clearly see there is no hope for you ..a year or two from now it will be you who is busting heads at a protest blissfully unaware that you are doing a disservice to your own country

Law... order, disservice? Busting heads or getting busted?

..that your ideology is meaningless as you become just another tool in keeping the status quo for the government ..you're not part of the solution but rather the problem

Ok, so, if I get unluckily selected for Combat Police, should I join the protesting?

why is this being argued everyone knows if you give someone liberties and takes them away they will riot or harangue

Yet they have liberties. What liberties were taken away by free trade?

 

[gick]

Anybody here ever been in a riot? Just as a matter of interest.

 

[CptStern]

Damn, site's down again..



Well, what exactly would you expect to get when you use bamboo spears against the police?

yes the evil-doers must be stopped!!!

Meanwhile, several villagers were injured by the police and three of them were sent to hospital. Kim Yeon-ja, aged 65, cannot move her body due to injuries to her waist. Lee Eun-beom, aged 72, fainted after she was thrown into a rice field by the police and her head was crushed against the ground. Kim Wol-joo, aged 60, was also attacked by the police and her left wrist was cracked. Yoo Seung-aae, aged 64, was also attacked and her right knee ligaments were ruptured. Kim Tae-im, aged 53, was pushed hard by female police officers and suffered injuries to her abdomen. She could not however receive hospital treatment as she could not afford the medical expenses.

obviously they're dangerous enemies of the state ..firing squad is too good for them

They came in only when they heard that the US would be building a base there.

source? here are mine:

"People in Pyeongtaeak"
"The villagers ..."

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2006/1653/

" ....to forcibly evict residents"
"...Many residents were severely injured"
"...The residents of Daechuri and the nearby community of Dodu-i-ri in Pyongtaek are rice farmers who are mostly elderly people in the 60s and 70s."
"which requires the forced or coerced removal of the farming communities of Daechuri and Dodu-i-ri."

http://www.landaction.org/display.php?article=435

btw this seems more than justified in beating elderly koreans to a pulp:

In December 2004, the South Korean government pledged to give over 809 hectares for the US base facilities in Pyeongtaek. Not only are military facilities planned in Pyeongtaek, lodging, country clubs with golf courses and other non-military buildings for recreation purposes will be built on the rice fields.

yup golf courses are worth local communities sustaining themselves like they have for thousands of years

That's why the police have protective gear.

are you saying protective gear would protect them from thousands of protestors? must be the same protective suit that Master chief wears :O

I've provided video evidence of civillians beating police with absolutely no provocation. (actually, Pax did). Is protesting synomynous with beating the police?

you're avoiding my question ..and since I asked first ......

I don't actually care when they're peaceful. I only note that violent protesting should be wiped out, not all protesting.

is that why you have in your sig:

""Civil Disobedience is Still Disobedience""

you make NO distinction between peaceful protestors and everyone else

It's a pretty big part of protests, considering the number of iron pipes the police have taken away.

you make it sound like it's the only part ..I've proven otherwise

Law... order, disservice? Busting heads or getting busted?

your chances of busting heads is far greater than you getting your head busted ..that's what riot helmets are for ..thankfully the protestors are too stupid to think of bringing a helmet

Ok, so, if I get unluckily selected for Combat Police, should I join the protesting?

because that's the only choice you have ...it doesnt matter even if confronted with a set of moral choices you'll pick whatever you've been spoonfed because you are incapable of deciding for yourself


example: here you answer my statement about 2000 koreans massacred by soldiers and all you can say is "they killed soldiers they deserve to die"

especially her ..she deserved to die a horrible death

or these people

or these people

Lololololololololol, "civil" disobedience. I'm sure that killing soldiers is very "civil".

Yet they have liberties. What liberties were taken away by free trade?

arrest for little more than participation in a legal protest? beatings for peaceful demonstrations? censorship because it goes against goverment policy? liberties? perhaps you need to live somewhere else for awhile to truely appreciate liberties

how easy is it for you to get a copy of Mein Kampf? or James Joyce' Ulyssus, or Nabokov's Lolita, or to access gay rights websites, or purchase Ghost recon 2, or anything on North Korea?

 

[AKIRA]

Those pics remind me of the opening scenes in Akira.

 

[Stingey]

pictures remind me of Jin-Roh

 

[AKIRA]

^that too

 

[Roman Legion]

AKIRA!!!!!! Man that was a good anime!! I miss the “old school” animes they just do not make them how they use to…

DUDE those pics are sooo crazy!! The Korean police were doing Roman formations and the protesters were like Pike-men or Phalanx! But look more like Pike-men!

Phalanx
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rrice/phalanx.jpg

Pike-men
http://www.miniart-models.com/Images/ModelKits/72009_Swiss_Infantry.jpg

The Roman Legions Turtle formation!
http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/images/history/legion-turtle.jpg
And
http://www.historyonthenet.com/Romans/images/armyturtle.jpg
And
http://static.flickr.com/73/157286439_eb32714f4e_m.jpg
And
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Roman_turtle_formation_on_trajan_column.jpg

Can any body tell me about this hole globalization thing… I hear too many different things about it and I am confused.

 

[15357]

yes the evil-doers must be stopped!!!



obviously they're dangerous enemies of the state ..firing squad is too good for them

So, bamboo spears doesn't warrent being pushed?

source? here are mine:

"People in Pyeongtaeak"
"The villagers ..."

http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2006/1653/

" ....to forcibly evict residents"
"...Many residents were severely injured"
"...The residents of Daechuri and the nearby community of Dodu-i-ri in Pyongtaek are rice farmers who are mostly elderly people in the 60s and 70s."
"which requires the forced or coerced removal of the farming communities of Daechuri and Dodu-i-ri."

http://www.landaction.org/display.php?article=435

btw this seems more than justified in beating elderly koreans to a pulp:



yup golf courses are worth local communities sustaining themselves like they have for thousands of years

What you do not understand is that the US base is the point of the entire eviction. A detterent so that Kim Jong Il won't invade us, again. If it takes the homes of 300 for the safety of 53.5 million, then so be it. I do feel sorry for those who have lost their homes, now as I think about it, but that still doesn't warrent beating people to death.

are you saying protective gear would protect them from thousands of protestors? must be the same protective suit that Master chief wears :O

Ye.... no. Their shields can block most attacks, yes, but casulties are inevitable.

you're avoiding my question ..and since I asked first ......

No. In that video, the protester is holding something that can be used as a weapon. In a violent protest. What the heck do you expect? Your turn.

is that why you have in your sig:

""Civil Disobedience is Still Disobedience""

you make NO distinction between peaceful protestors and everyone else

That's my Nationstate. It's a joke, lol.

you make it sound like it's the only part ..I've proven otherwise

Nonono, those protests don't have any police in them, so they are irrevelent in this discussion.

your chances of busting heads is far greater than you getting your head busted ..that's what riot helmets are for ..thankfully the protestors are too stupid to think of bringing a helmet

This says different:

Would you look at that, it's almost as if.. *gasp* they were actually preparing to attack!

because that's the only choice you have ...it doesnt matter even if confronted with a set of moral choices you'll pick whatever you've been spoonfed because you are incapable of deciding for yourself

And you aren't?

example: here you answer my statement about 2000 koreans massacred by soldiers and all you can say is "they killed soldiers they deserve to die"

especially her ..she deserved to die a horrible death

or these people

or these people

Deserved? All I had pointed out was teh fact that it wasn't civil disobedience.

arrest for little more than participation in a legal protest? beatings for peaceful demonstrations? censorship because it goes against goverment policy? liberties? perhaps you need to live somewhere else for awhile to truely appreciate liberties

Arrest are for non-leagal violent protests. There aren't even police with batons at peaceful demonstrations.

how easy is it for you to get a copy of Mein Kampf? or James Joyce' Ulyssus, or Nabokov's Lolita, or to access gay rights websites, or purchase Ghost recon 2, or anything on North Korea?

Mein Kampf, easy; Ulyssus, easy; Lolita, never heard of it; gay rights websites: only after verfication of age; Ghost Recon 2: banned; anything on North Korea: well, easy (as long as it doesn't say: LONG LIVE KIM JONG IL LOL!).

 

[15357]

Also: http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200607/200607200014.html

Police display homemade weapons from striking construction workers occupying the POSCO headquarters in Pohang on Thursday. The 3-m weapons emit flames longer than 1 m.

 

[15357]

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200611/23/200611232222144779900090409041.html