Theory, BUT Very Possible... "MapInside"

[mayro]

First off let me give a little bit of background on this. Doom3 was released back in augest and the graphics were widely accepted as good. The part that got the most buzz out of the community of modders was that the mapping program for Doom3 was literaly accesable inside the game. In the Doom3 editor, their is no alt tabbing and it is quite usefull. This brings me to the point of even though their is a leaked hammer out their and it functions, why valve hasent released the editor.

Why'll being a theory i expect to hear back from the valve mapper i emailed last night. I think that its HIGHLY possible that valve has seen how people reacted to the map editor being inside the actual game interface that the reason for holding the editor back is, its now part of Half-Life 2.

Valve could use the whole Hammer Engine inside of the Half-Life 2 GUI, the GUI atleast appears to be nothing more than a coating of steam "In laymens terms".

If valve hasent integrated HAMMER into the Half-Life 2 engine, I belive that it might be possible to add it in after the fact. Would their be anyone interested in helping?

New features id love to try to get in would be:
() Building on the fly. This meaning that what you do in the editor immediatly pops up in the game. This would be usefull for testing jump situations or testing physic puzzles.

() *In or Out of Halflife2* Im no programmer but by god the thing i want most of all for the map editor is DIRECT CONTROL OF MODELS! Hear me out before shooting this one down. Ive been working on textures and such with friends and when the editor comes out I will be makeing a map. I want to make custom models for both sides and the hostages. I belive it is now possible to basicaly zip MODEL and i know definatly texture files into the map's file. I want to put a spin on the whole CT VRS T matchs. Being able to limit the weapon selection "by a admin command" so that the map is played the way it was intended to be played.

() Something everyone might really enjoy is a selection by the admin at the begining of loading a map or pre selected to do something differnt. Basicaly the only thing that seperates a bomb map and a hostage map is 3 functions. HOSTAGE and RESCUE and BOMB. With that in mind and how dynamik steam is now, i belive it might be possible to switch back and forth between these two types of game on the same map. "Think of the possibilites if a map did both at the same time. You a CT trying to rescue a hostage whyll the terrorist try to blow up your escape route. Hell even make useing the bomb not end the match. With the huge size of maps possible and huge player numbers, we could really turn this into something new."

Wow am i long winded or what, I guess i should have typed a essay instead. Oh well, I thank you for reading what parts you did and hope you might have suggestions towards ither Valve or someone elses future project.

*As for the map: I will be the sole creator for the construction and playability for the level. I will also do some but definatly not most of the textureing. Im thinking ill need to find someone to do the modeling for the map. The biggest concern i have is im literaly wanting to pull out all the stops for this map. Ill end up with 3 differnt versions of it. Hostage:Bomb: and UNPLAYABLE.

Definition of UNPLAYABLE: I want to make a map that will consume most of my free time. I really enjoy putting detail in everything i do. The reason i think this map will be unplayable is becuase of how detailed it will be. It will eat frames like a mama. I want to recreate some house in its intierty. We are always makeing maps that look and play good but never for the beauty of the game itself. Valve does a awsome job at balanceing the map out for play and look. Its time to focus on 100% look.

Also: Look forward to the system crashing map of 5000 dominos

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

A huge chunk of that just isn't possible.

You can't edit the HL2 executable. You certainly couldn't alter it enough to integrate the editor with the engine.

There is supposedly a level of integration - you can run Hammer at the same time as HL2, editing things like entities inside the game, but nothing that alters the map's structure.

Realtime mapping isn't possible - Source uses precompiled lighting and visibility data.

The CS:S stuff you mentioned is more a function of the game than of the maps

 

[DoctorGordon]

Having the editor built into the game is the stupidest idea ever. First, its not required, and you see, not everyone uses it for making playable maps. (example me, i use it for normal maps, but i also make comics using the camera-view [which gets harder when i have to alt tab a ton])

 

[mayro]

Valve could easily make this part of the half-life 2 excutable. Its like a 4 meg file. Im sorry if some people feel that 4 megs that they will never use is wasted space but most people have atleast a 10 gig hard drive nowadays

Someone told me that source could use dynamik lighting? What if u didnt do realtime lighting and just had the whole level bright and add the lighting afterwords.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It's not just a case of appending the editor onto the end of the HL2 executable. Integrating it into the engine is an enormously more involved task. It's the kind of thing you do when you start writing an engine, not when it's done.

Source doesn't have a unified lighting model like Doom 3.

 

[LeXo5]

Farcry's Map editor was very simple to use and you just had to hit F9 (or some hotkey) and you dropped right into it, you didn't need to compile it or load it or anything, just hit play.

 

[pixartist]

yeah but hl2 is not farcry...

 

[yadalogo]

Hl2 is something beyond farcry!

 

[mayro]

This is something that can work! By god I will make this happen!

If I cant figure it out i could try getting ahold of Joolz and im sure he could add the editor into Half-Life 2 in a way that would function for the better.... Evedently HOOKING is still possible even with halflife2, butatleast id be useing the map editor OFFLINE so that when i do boot it up i wouldnt have to worry about vac. Im sure if anyone can pop open the can of worms for this he could.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

/me bangs head against wall

HL2 maps require compiling

 

[ukfluke]

mayro have u ever mapped with worldcraft/hammer? if u have u should know its not possible

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

/me bangs head against wall

HL2 maps require compiling

Heheheh.....


Funny when people just don't listen when they are sure they are on to something


:cheers:

 

[DoctorGordon]

mayro have u ever mapped with worldcraft/hammer? if u have u should know its not possible

Ahh come on, its the best editor, in fact 1 of the few good editiors i've ever used.

(Doom 3's editor sucked too, btw. Then again, Doom 3 sucked.)

 

[mayro]

I know it currently needs to be compiled. Im more or less talking about not haveing to alt tab out of Halflife2 to get into the editor.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

What would be the point in that? Compiling uses vast amounts of resources (mainly memory) that HL2 would be using.

Unless Valve did this for you (and there's not even a vaguely compelling reason to do it), then it won't happen. No third-party would be able to do it.

 

[johnshafft]

dooms built in editor was based on how unreal had its editor co-mingled with the engine. what this did was allow for alittle better interaction with the variables in the game and engine that the developers felt like making available. it also made it seem like maps didnt need to be compiled since it was done with each addition to the map.

 

[Polykarbon]

I'll be rewriting the netrx compile source when the new hammer comes out. This should ease some of the vis/light calc/run tension.

Valve urges the community to take advantage of Net/compile tools when the final Hammer package is released. I'll be writing a few documented batch run programs, and will attempt to learn and write from the additive design very quickly.

Also, the output from a CSG process is just a polygon set, that BSP then processes into a tree. Whether the input to that CSG process is additive or subtractive is completely up to tools as you know.

I wouldn't call the DooM 3 editor "terrible."

In 50/50 design sight, it is one of the best mapping editors out there in terms of pure power.

 

[Dekstar]

Actually, Someone modded morrowind to do that, so essentially it's possible. You wouldn't have a lot of choice in what to do but you could do it.