There Is No God by Penn Jillette

[Nat Turner]

:|

K.

Look, this is all just silly speculation. But I had to bet my money on it, I'd bet that something metaphysical had some effect (almost definitely before the Big Bang), and I'd probably win.

 

[CptStern]

Look, this is all just silly speculation. But I had to bet my money on it, I'd bet that something metaphysical had some effect (almost definitely before the Big Bang), and I'd probably win.

I'd like to see you collect that bet ...looks it's nigh impossible for there to be a personal god: that would imply we're alone in the universe which is in itself impossible or at least improbable because we've barely explored our world, never mind our solar system, or galaxy

 

[Nat Turner]

I'd like to see you collect that bet ...looks it's nigh impossible for there to be a personal god: that would imply we're alone in the universe which is in itself impossible or at least improbable because we've barely explored our world, never mind our solar system, or galaxy

I never said anything about a personal god, or even that anything metaphysical affects us.

 

[CptStern]

you said god as in a god who watches over us ...that's a personal god

 

[DeusExMachina]

Actually, Nat's been referring to a God in the Deistic sense.

 

[CptStern]

Actually, Nat's been referring to a God in the Deistic sense.

not here he's not:


"There almost definitely is or was some sort of higher power that influenced our existence. To believe otherwise is betting on a chance that closely approaches 0."

 

[Nat Turner]

you said god as in a god who watches over us ...that's a personal god

If I said that, I was just mentioning it as a possibility, which I think is very unlikely. On second thought, probably more unlikely than there being no supernatural power in the first place.

 

[DeusExMachina]

not here he's not:


"There almost definitely is or was some sort of higher power that influenced our existence. To believe otherwise is betting on a chance that closely approaches 0."

He's simply saying it helped create the universe and set in motion the creation of Earth and humans. That's all I really see him saying. He's not trying to say "Well, God watches over us and he made all of us unique ." He simply thinks its impossible for something like the universe, Earth, and humans to come into existence by random.

 

[CptStern]

If I said that, I was just mentioning it as a possibility, which I think is very unlikely. On second thought, probably more unlikely than there being no supernatural power in the first place.

fair enough

 

[Nat Turner]

DeusExMachinia:

Just to clarify, I don't think it was necessarily guided. It could be random or not. Scientifically, it is indeed 100% random; I don't dispute science at all.

But these are things above the realm of science. Something probably either initiated it, allowed different dimensions and the laws of the universe to exist and work, or something. I don't really know. It's even possible we have souls(don't know how likely this is at all, it's a confusing subject).But I'm fairly sure a supernatural force had some effect somewhere.

edit(I was thinking about this the other day):

For example, let's say you have brain surgery, and science is very advanced. A surgeon removes half your brain and places it into another body(one that had no brain). Then, artifical brain matter is somehow added to both bodies to compensate for each to make 2 full brains.

Now, who are you? Do you simultaneously exist in two bodies, but not know the other? Are you now two people? How much brain matter has to be removed from you to make you a "different person"? Half? One fourth? One cell? Does none of this even matter one bit? Does the universe shut down from your perspective?

 

[Qonfused]

Why do the mods even allow a God-related thread past one page? We just know it's going to turn into arguement, turmoil and hurt feelings.

 

[Muffin Man]

LETS DEBATE RELIGIONS !!!!! cuz that alwayse ends well because nobody minds you walking all over their faith....

 

[Nat Turner]

LETS DEBATE RELIGIONS !!!!! cuz that alwayse ends well because nobody minds you walking all over their faith....

I don't really have faith. I just try to figure stuff out, and go with what's most logical/probable. I think it takes some faith to make a blanket statement such as "nothing supernatural has ever had any influence on anything"

 

[jondy]

I don't really have faith. I just try to figure stuff out, and go with what's most logical/probable. I think it takes some faith to make a blanket statement such as "nothing supernatural has ever had any influence on anything"

But supernature is the defiance of logic; the only faith going on in supernature is blindsiding rational explanation in favour of mysticism

(edited for clarity)

 

[Gray Fox]

No, not really. I'm saying everything is a possibility. You're saying this exact possibility is supreme over all others.

By saying that there must be a suprme beeing that created us because the chances of us existing without one are incredible small. Your exluding the possibility that there is no supreme beeing, hence you'rr saying that your possibility is supreme over all others. Furthermore your chosing to make up a explenation just because you dont understand how something might have happend.

In any case I find the article particulary appealing because of like absinthe said "his take on live without god and what it means". It gives the best explenation to religious people about our point of view and why so many atheist think the way they do.

 

[spookymooky]

By the way, going off topic once more, whatever happened to that guy in the last God thread that you were arguing with. It was disgusting how he thought he was right in every single word he said .

Is that me? :|

Anyways, I hope there's not much more talk about how "probable" or improbable" creation or god is. Without some numbers, you can't place any kind of probability on this sort of thing, even just words like "likely" or "probably"

Also, Absinthe, I think I've come to agree that ID shouldnt be taught in schools--if it doesnt have numbers, it's not science.

 

[DeusExMachina]

No no, it wasn't you. It was this guy...ugh it was disgusting.

Wait a minute...was it you Nat?

 

[Nat Turner]

No no, it wasn't you. It was this guy...ugh it was disgusting.

Wait a minute...was it you Nat?

No it was not.

 

[Nat Turner]

By saying that there must be a suprme beeing that created us because the chances of us existing without one are incredible small. Your exluding the possibility that there is no supreme beeing, hence you'rr saying that your possibility is supreme over all others. Furthermore your chosing to make up a explenation just because you dont understand how something might have happend.

I'm not excluding the possibility of no supreme being. I'm saying it's very unlikely, in my opinion. Second, I did not make up an explanation. I'm simply saying other explanations may exist, and it is more likely that at least one is true over absolute pure randomness.

 

[Gray Fox]

I'm not excluding the possibility of no supreme being. I'm saying it's very unlikely, in my opinion. Second, I did not make up an explanation. I'm simply saying other explanations may exist, and it is more likely that at least one is true over absolute pure randomness.

Ok, then i misread your post.

 

[sinkoman]

Agnostics believe there is no way to prove there is a god. Or they just don't give a damn.

BINGO!

I like being agnostic.

 

[spookymooky]

No no, it wasn't you. It was this guy...ugh it was disgusting.

Wait a minute...was it you Nat?

Was it that one guy whose name began with a P, had that lady from the ad in his avy?

 

[Nat Turner]

Was it that one guy whose name began with a P, had that lady from the ad in his avy?

Poseyjmac or something?

 

[DrDevin]

I find it hard to believe some god that has no physical form at all just made everything up.

I mean dont you have to be some sort of physical entity to manipulate something? If you are made of nothing how can you touch something? Going by this logic, if nothing can change something, then something can change nothing. So we could touch god or even destroy him.

I was just wondering this, feel free to correct me.

Oh and I like these threads, they allow for discussion unless people keep spamming "these threads should be closed".

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, I believe he's referring to Posey. What a nutjob.

"look at teh dictionary"
"Okay."
"i am right!"
"How?"
"just look!"
"I am."
"god your so stupid"

 

[spookymooky]

by this logic, if nothing can change something, then something can change nothing.

Nah, logic doesnt work like that. Just because a cat's a mammal, doesn't make a mammal a cat.


And Posey was the guy I was thinking of, at least.

 

[Nat Turner]

I find it hard to believe some god that has no physical form at all just made everything up.

I mean dont you have to be some sort of physical entity to manipulate something? If you are made of nothing how can you touch something? Going by this logic, if nothing can change something, then something can change nothing. So we could touch god or even destroy him.

I was just wondering this, feel free to correct me.

Oh and I like these threads, they allow for discussion unless people keep spamming "these threads should be closed".

Since there is not infinite mass/energy in the universe, it's possible that everything is predetermined(if Quantum Mechanics is wrong, which is possible because there's no unified theory yet), and no manipulation would be needed.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Everything is possible, therefore let's choose the least likely event.

Ya, okay.

Penis.

 

[Qonfused]

Penis!

 

[spookymooky]

Everything is possible, therefore let's choose the least likely event.

Ya, okay.

Penis.

Without numbers, we can't say any one thing is more likely than another, we just don't know. You can't use words which refer to statistics in this situation.

 

[WaterMelon34]

Looks like someone thinks that because they don't believe in God, he's not there! Yeah, I refuse to believe there is a God, so all the suffering in the world should stop now. People keep treating this "God" stuff like they are window shopping.

 

[Nat Turner]

Looks like someone thinks that because they don't believe in God, he's not there! Yeah, I refuse to believe there is a God, so all the suffering in the world should stop now. People keep treating this "God" stuff like they are window shopping.

There is obviously no spiritual or metaphysical force that affects anything in our lives. Some people have problems seeing this though.

 

[WaterMelon34]

There is obviously no spiritual or metaphysical force that affects anything in our lives. Some people have problems seeing this though.

Obviously? Are you willing to die and find out? That would be a rofl. Now, what people considered true scientifically has been proven wrong many times, for example, the world doesn't seem to be flat anymore does it? Scientists today are finding out that we know absolutely jack shit.

Also, matter is built up of nothing. Explain that.

 

[Nat Turner]

Obviously? Are you willing to die and find out? That would be a rofl.

I said "lives" .

 

[WaterMelon34]

I said "lives" .

That may not be true either. Water deforms itself to a different shape for everyone that looks at it... why?

 

[Nat Turner]

That may not be true either. Water deforms itself to a different shape for everyone that looks at it... why?

What are you talking about? And it is true.

 

[WaterMelon34]

What are you talking about? And it is true.

I'm talking about any spiritual or metaphysical forces in our lives. You don't think that's odd that water molecules change whenever someone different looks at them? Or something small that seems to happen as though it was meant to happen like that, as though you got lucky? If God exists, and he doesn't use metaphysics, then he would probably try to use the laws of science to do things in and around the world.

 

[Nat Turner]

I'm talking about any spiritual or metaphysical forces in our lives. You don't think that's odd that water molecules change whenever someone different looks at them? Or something small that seems to happen as though it was meant to happen like that, as though you got lucky? If God exists, and he doesn't use metaphysics, then he would probably try to use the laws of science to do things in and around the world.

A) Water molecules don't change when someone different looks at them.

B) God can't use the laws of science to change things. It would be contrary to the physical laws of the universe. (Unless Einstein and just about every other physician was wrong)

 

[WaterMelon34]

A) Water molecules don't change when someone different looks at them.

B) God can't use the laws of science to change things. It would be contrary to the physical laws of the universe. (Unless Einstein and just about every other physician was wrong)

A) Actually, it was proven. Watch the movie "What the bleep do we know?" for an example (they experiment with it).
B) Shit happens.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually, it was proven. Watch the movie "What the bleep do we know?" for an example (they experiment with it).

I can only guess that this is pseudoscience you're referring to.