Tired of Alyx, hopefully she dies

Naph said:
Without Alyx, Gordon wouldn't seem as great.
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This ^^

Gordon is a silent character so we need a character like Alyx for us (the player) to reflect off of emotionally. When we care about her we care more about the things she cares about. Eli's fate was so terribly heartbreaking because of Alyx and the love for her father. If she had not been there the emotions would not have nearly been as strong.

She gave the ambush at the forest inn a ember of fear when the hunters showed up and you could feel her fear and emotional trauma from the attack at the start of the game.

Basically she pulls us deeper into the story so we aren't a detached observer trying to win the game but Gordon Freman himself fighting for the freedom of humanity. (dramatic I know but kinda true)

However, if you don't really care about deep story then you might as well ignore everything I said.

I like the idea of a shake-head/nod system (to trigger NPC actions or dialogue). I also propose upgrading the 'E' key to initiate more active character interactions.
 
Another thought. Ep3 is meant to conclude the current story arc, paving the way for HL3's new story events. What's going to happen to Alyx then? We can't just assume that she survives and the adventure's going to continue pretty much the same as before like we did at the end of Ep1 and Ep2. HL3's meant to be different, it can't continue on from Ep3 like Ep2 did from Ep1. Is she just going to go back to White Forest and chill with Magnuson and Barney until Gordon wakes up from stasis and the shit hits the fan again? Wouldn't feel right somehow. Maybe they will kill her, just for a suitably epic conclusion to the HL2 arc.

All speculation of course, we have no idea how HL3 will continue from HL2. It might only take place a few days after Ep3 for all we know.
 
brad92 said:
Who is to say there will be a HL3?
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I do.

I got a stupid topic banned because some moderator is claiming. VALVE HAS CONFIRMED EPISODE 3 DUDE!!! OMFG!!! There are also plenty of reports that valve has considered canning episode 3 why?

Episodic idea = fail. They were suppose to have all the episodes out by 07. Its 2010 and almost 2011. There is no episode 3. There are way to many points in the plot that have to end. If they are to make a short 5 hour game it would suck. There is just to much to pack into a small tiny game.

Like I have also stated before. People who have played episode 1 and 2 played at least half-life 2 first if not half-life as well. Many people played half-life 2 before ever playing half-life. Since this is the case, half-life 2 increased sales for half-life as well.

This whole cycle can be seen today with the fallout series. Since game of the year fallout 3 has been released there has been a demand for the original fallout games. It is why you see all the original fallout games back on the shelves at stores. You would not be seeing this with an episode. The episodic idea just flat out does not work.
 
Zhurgoul said:
I am more interested in a completely different problem: thus far, Valve has slowly but surely been hinting at a budding romance between Gordon and Alyx. Gordon's silence is a good thing, in my opinion, as it serves to allow you to place yourself in his shoes; you BECOME him.

However, without a direct ability to interact with other characters in the game, through speech or otherwise, how is one supposed to act upon this relationship? Is it Valve's intention to leave us off in the next game merely with more hints and nods?
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This, to me, is the enormous shortcoming of the otherwise wonderful Half-Life experience, especially in HL2 where you're surrounded by NPCs who actually have individual personalities -- these people are supposed to be my friends, and yet I can't do anything to reciprocate that friendship. Alyx in particular presents an incredibly thorny problem, as I have gone through hell for that girl (storming the citadel, the antlion caves), and I can't even give her a nice hug after she freaks the hell out over a stalker pod nearly crushing her to death. It's maddening, simply from a storytelling point of view (leaving aside the fact that I do honestly like Alyx as a character and enjoy having her as a companion), to have my in-game, story-driven actions show a certain level of commitment to a person and yet be unable to follow through on that commitment in other areas. Playing as a heroic mime worked well for HL1, where it was just you, some interchangeable extras, and a crapload of things to kill, or even for Portal, where you can just sit back and let the AI taunt you, but when you add genuinely empathetic characters to the mix, its flaws become immediately apparent.

The other annoying thing about the silent protagonist approach to gameplay is that, IMO, it cheapens a lot of really fantastic character writing and makes it seem false and hollow. When Alyx interacts with Gordon, she may as well be speaking to a cardboard cutout that shoots things from time to time, and whenever she tells him she was worried about him, or to be careful, well...it comes across like she's a character in one of those dating sim games. She's not talking to Gordon, she's talking to [insert player here], because Gordon has no personality, and the game gives me no way to inject my own personality into his body to give him some life. Alyx's relationship with Eli was so believable and emotional because, when given a chance to act off of another actual personality, she is able to show how strikingly human she really is in the way she's written. But then we go to her relationship with Gordon, which is arguably the second most important relationship she has with anyone in the story, and it completely falls on its ass just because it's physically impossible for there to be anything there of depth and meaning.

...and that turned into a bit of a rant. Anyway, regarding the original topic, I think it's unlikely that Alyx is going anywhere for Ep. 3, not that I'd want her somewhere else anyway, but I do wish that, as Gordon, I had some way of actually interacting with her, not to mention the rest of the NPCs. "Me being Gordon Freeman" only goes so far when I can't actually do anything to reflect his appearance serving as my avatar (in essence).

I did notice that there are gestures in the Portal 2 Co-op, though -- maybe a similar system will be brought over to Episode 3.
 
Bioware is doing better than Valve in this regard (Mass Effect vs. Half-Life 2). Valve has the chops to create such characters, but the reciprocation is lacking so it ultimately feels hollow and creates its own set of difficulties in story and gameplay.
 
hakojo said:
This, to me, is the enormous shortcoming of the otherwise wonderful Half-Life experience, especially in HL2 where you're surrounded by NPCs who actually have individual personalities -- these people are supposed to be my friends, and yet I can't do anything to reciprocate that friendship. Alyx in particular presents an incredibly thorny problem, as I have gone through hell for that girl (storming the citadel, the antlion caves), and I can't even give her a nice hug after she freaks the hell out over a stalker pod nearly crushing her to death. It's maddening, simply from a storytelling point of view (leaving aside the fact that I do honestly like Alyx as a character and enjoy having her as a companion), to have my in-game, story-driven actions show a certain level of commitment to a person and yet be unable to follow through on that commitment in other areas. Playing as a heroic mime worked well for HL1, where it was just you, some interchangeable extras, and a crapload of things to kill, or even for Portal, where you can just sit back and let the AI taunt you, but when you add genuinely empathetic characters to the mix, its flaws become immediately apparent.

The other annoying thing about the silent protagonist approach to gameplay is that, IMO, it cheapens a lot of really fantastic character writing and makes it seem false and hollow. When Alyx interacts with Gordon, she may as well be speaking to a cardboard cutout that shoots things from time to time, and whenever she tells him she was worried about him, or to be careful, well...it comes across like she's a character in one of those dating sim games. She's not talking to Gordon, she's talking to [insert player here], because Gordon has no personality, and the game gives me no way to inject my own personality into his body to give him some life. Alyx's relationship with Eli was so believable and emotional because, when given a chance to act off of another actual personality, she is able to show how strikingly human she really is in the way she's written. But then we go to her relationship with Gordon, which is arguably the second most important relationship she has with anyone in the story, and it completely falls on its ass just because it's physically impossible for there to be anything there of depth and meaning.

...and that turned into a bit of a rant. Anyway, regarding the original topic, I think it's unlikely that Alyx is going anywhere for Ep. 3, not that I'd want her somewhere else anyway, but I do wish that, as Gordon, I had some way of actually interacting with her, not to mention the rest of the NPCs. "Me being Gordon Freeman" only goes so far when I can't actually do anything to reflect his appearance serving as my avatar (in essence).

I did notice that there are gestures in the Portal 2 Co-op, though -- maybe a similar system will be brought over to Episode 3.
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I agree. There needs to be some way for you to interact with Alyx and other NPC in repose to what they say and do, but I don't think Gordon should talk. I think they should just make the E key more useful. What I would do is have at certain points or under certain conditions you would have the opportunity to physically interact with the characters. Like being able to hug Alyx after the stalker train incident. What about shaking Barney's hand? stuff like that. Its simple, straight forward and people would be free to ignore it with no negative impact on the game... i.e. It being supplementary and optional.

Another idea is that when you hit E (or another key one key for action another for "talk") you don't actually say anything but they respond like you have... not sure how they would make it work but it be nice.

The fact that they have that in portal is encouraging that they might have something like that in Ep3
 
Alyx reminds me a bit of Katara from ALTA the animated series, she's compassionate, lost her mother (well TBH Alyx lost both parents) in a war, caring, in love with the main character, albeit preechy. All in all, I like them both.
 
I thought the whole, Alyx being with you throughout EP1 and most of EP2, was very well executed. It develops a bond between Player and Character VERY well in my opinion.

Actually I don't think any other game developer as of yet has done as well as Valve in the area of character interaction with the player.

I mean, after all that you go through with Alyx up until the end of Ep2, you start to feel sort of connected with her (Not so much in a romantic way but more of a sibling sort of way). So much so, that it becomes hard not to feel any sort of emotion when she lays there crying at your feet at the end. For me anyway. :stare:
 
Killing her seems a little unnecessary but maybe she'll take a back seat in Ep3 so that other characters (a certain beer-owing guard) can get a little more screen time.
 
lord_raken said:
I think they should just make the E key more useful. What I would do is have at certain points or under certain conditions you would have the opportunity to physically interact with the characters. Like being able to hug Alyx after the stalker train incident. What about shaking Barney's hand? stuff like that.
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Nooo thanks. Stuff like that is way too contrived; what's the point of having the chance to hug alyx or not hug alyx? "Press E to hug Alyx" *Presses E* Phew! that took away a lot of emotional strain!
 
Shes Probably the best thing thats happened with the Half Life Saga..
 
Eh, I find her annoying, but I'm old fashioned in that I like Gordon to be THE character of the game.
 
Its not that i cant stand her as much as i just dont care for her that much. What really pissed me off is that gameinformer just recently put out a list of 30 most memorable characters for the decade. Not only was Freeman not on it but they put Alyx on there...you got to be kidding me.
 
rjthrog said:
What really pissed me off is that gameinformer just recently put out a list of 30 most memorable characters for the decade.
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That'd be why Gordon wasn't on it; technically he hails from the 90's.

Not to mention that he's barely even a character. He's more of a badass mech suit that the player puts on and then does impossibly cool things with.
 
He's definitely more than a guy in a suit. But let me go along with you for a second and agree, even if he is, there's no way in hell Alyx should be on the list. And hl2 with the episodes were put out in this decade, but his previous games help make him another memorable character.
 
Alright, so who should be on it? Master Chief? Link? Mario? Really, as far as gaming is concerned, Alyx is the most developed character ever.
 
McGooTheWise said:
Really, as far as gaming is concerned, Alyx is the most developed character ever.
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This. Plus, love her or hate her, you have to admit that Alyx is a pretty damn memorable character - that was the point of the list, right?
 
Freeman can't be a "memorable character" because just an empty vessel.
 
Master Cheif shouldn't be on there. He's just a spartan with no popular background. Freeman on the other hand is celebrated by most of the world. Every character you meet in the game has some remark about how Freeman is so well known and respected. And yes, Alyx is a memorable character, im just saying that there's no way she should be on it before Freeman or even the G MAN. But then again i guess its just matter of opinion and no one's list will match entirely.
 
I'm reminded of that one segment of Mr. Plinkett's review of The Phantom Menace, where he asks people to describe characters from Star Wars without saying what they look like or what their role in the story was -- the better descriptions they could come up with, the stronger the character was. I think it applies here as well. You can't describe Gordon's character because he doesn't have one. He's you, me, and everyone else who plays the game. His reputation as it exists in HL2 is entirely based on actions you carried out as him in the first Half-Life.

The G-Man, on the other hand...I guess have to concede somewhat there. Still, he's been around (and been pretty much the same character) since the first game in '98, and it's not like HL2 did anything new and riveting with him. And then there's Alyx with the "holy crap, a girl in a video game who's actually not really all that attractive and whose clothes are almost anti-fanservice, but who still has masses of fans because people like her personality" - admittedly I'm not a huge gamer, but are there really that many other characters who fill the same sort of niche?
 
Don't even lie.All of you would eat shit and die if it wasn't for Alyx.
 
I think Barney would make a great side kick. Oh, btw I believe it's Eli that has the most facial expression.

Though, I have to admit. Alyx does play an important role, and throughout the game she does impact the player. So no, I hope she'll live. I just hope she won't become a Mary Sue when she wants revenge.
 
I highly doubt that will happen any time soon. The Vorts "weaved" our fate together (or Vortessense or whatever it was), or was that just our life force so she'd survive? Anywho, hopefully Valve mix it up and we see her going through some changes. Like G-man screwing with her head and making her do some crazy stuff, or gradually changing her personality and character. It'd be interesting to watch that develop.

But yeah! Another side character would be nice :p Extended interactions with Barney, reminiscing about Black Mesa and such, would be awesome, but maybe just a generic character? And if you keep him or her alive long enough you'll learn more about their family and life and stuff? Would that work..?
 
As many other players here do, I enjoy Alyx in the game and I think you should be able to inject some life into him and interact with Alyx properly. Maybe not all the time, but certainly in places such as the Stalker Pod Car when she got really upset...:(

Perhaps they could implement a feature where if you go really close to her and press "e" you'd give her a hug. It would be quite cool if you could do it anytime because you must judge when is a good time. For example, if you do it right in the middle of a big zombie battle she'd say "this aint' a good time gordon". However if you do it right after she jumps out of the stakler car she'd be very grateful.
 
I think Alyx is an important role in the game. I don't exactly agree with killing her off. Maybe playing a mission without her or something. I loved in the episodes when she was much more emotional and it added a sense of realism to the game to kinda show how tense and under stress she was. For example, when Dog digs you out of the rubble and she hugs you or when your on the stalker transport train. It really made the game enjoyable.
 
Tunnelsnake said:
I think Alyx is an important role in the game. I don't exactly agree with killing her off. Maybe playing a mission without her or something. I loved in the episodes when she was much more emotional and it added a sense of realism to the game to kinda show how tense and under stress she was. For example, when Dog digs you out of the rubble and she hugs you or when your on the stalker transport train. It really made the game enjoyable.
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I'm interested to see if they expand on Alyx's thing with the stalkers. She seems to emotionally break a bit when exposed to the stalkers, and in the HL2 files there is a video where Alyx explains why she can't hold herself together around stalkers. Hopefully they'll expand on that a bit in ep3, as its quite interesting and could add more realism to Alyx. I mean, everyone has fears of something...
 
Its the only active thread in the episode 3 section. So if this thread dies the Ep3 section dies =O
 
Do you know what annoys me about Alyx?

The whole Mary Sue thing.

Alyx is proficient in hacking, computers. She's a rather evil shot, what with her automatic gun and the Combine sniper rifles. She's implied to be a good driver as she has traversed the antlion coast with a buggy. She's a good fighter in general, running through Route Kanal with a record time as implied by Eli. She's utterly compassionate, loves her dad, chastises the EVIL TRAITOR Judith Mossman. She might seem a little brash, especially after she snapped at Mossman in Eli's lab, ONLY to find out that she was right all along - Mossman did meddle with Combine, though for noble reasons if you can say that.
She's encouraging, the only criticism you get from her is to "move on faster." And she makes cheesy adorable jokes, which only add do her supposed likeability.

Where are her flaws? I want to yell at her if her brashness takes over and she charges into enemies, I want to roll my eyes, when she says something inconsiderate or messes up with a computer, I want her to get angry for no other reason than that she's frustrated with all the death and action around them. No, weeping at a Stalker car is not enough.
And we even got to save the damsel in distress! Twice! Or even more times.
And now there's hier father, killed right before her eyes. An orphan hero, giving a lot of reason to angst around. I'm seriously afraid that Valve will Sue-ify her even further, now that she has been given a reason to take another level in badass. I'm sorry, but that character has been created to appeal to the player, but cranked up to eleven and instead of being a flawed but lovable character, she comes off as holier-than-thou and more skilled-than-thou as well. What are her motives for being in love with Gordon? Gordon never speaks to her, has no problem with killing loads and loads of hostiles who used to be living breathing people, is the most revered human on the planet as of now and not once has shown an emotion towards Alyx (much thanks to 1st person silent hero mode). This is so stupid.

That said, I loved Eli. He was well balanced. Mossman was fine, too, as she had noble intentions, but less than noble ways to fulfill them. She had flaws while being a good character. And then there's Barney, who was the only sidekick to get me all pumped up and running at the Combine gunz ablaze. He was fun, he was snarky, he was trigger-happy and brash and all around fun sidekick who did not need rescuing. Alyx is supposed to be a gun-ho badass when it comes to killing hostiles, yet I get to save her one too many times. Good character writing? **** no. Only a cheap tool to make you bond with her and it fails magnificently.
I miss Barney. When he told me to tell Breen to go **** himself, I screamed "FUUUUCK YEEEEAH" and ran on. And sure I was concerned about him when he was left on that square, or when he took off with the train in the end of Ep1.

Alyx is Valve's baby, and it's alright, but as with many other character writers, Valve's gone too far with pimping her up. The side characters are much more balanced and well developed. HL2's story is like a Mario Puzo novel - the main characters are sue-ified to the max and annoying as hell while side characters are perfectly written, and you end up caring about them much more than you ever would about the main character.

I'm sorry for bad English, I'm not a native speaker.
 
I'm interested to see if they expand on Alyx's thing with the stalkers. She seems to emotionally break a bit when exposed to the stalkers, and in the HL2 files there is a video where Alyx explains why she can't hold herself together around stalkers. Hopefully they'll expand on that a bit in ep3, as its quite interesting and could add more realism to Alyx. I mean, everyone has fears of something...
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Interesting thought. I hope they do that too.
 
I believe the more obvious reasoning for her emotional attachment to stalkers is because they used to be resistance members. Most likely people she knew, or maybe was friends with, or Eli was friends with got turned into stalkers, and it reminds her of that. And when she was crying, we have no idea how long Gordon was knocked out for. It could have been seconds, or minutes. I'm sure if you had one of those things pinning you to the floor, screaming in your face for 3 minutes you'd be crying when you got up too.
 
McGooTheWise said:
I believe the more obvious reasoning for her emotional attachment to stalkers is because they used to be resistance members. Most likely people she knew, or maybe was friends with, or Eli was friends with got turned into stalkers, and it reminds her of that. And when she was crying, we have no idea how long Gordon was knocked out for. It could have been seconds, or minutes. I'm sure if you had one of those things pinning you to the floor, screaming in your face for 3 minutes you'd be crying when you got up too.
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Yeah anyone would feel some emotion for the stalkers because they were once human. I'm just wondering if they will expand on Alyx's emotional attachment to them. It'd be an interesting element to try :)

BTW about that bit where the stalker falls out of its pod and the pod comes off the wall, pinning the stalker to Alyx... I'm surprised that the stalker came out of its pod during the crash, as the pods seem very tight and strong. Plus all the other stalkers more or less stayed in their pods.
 
Hell, I wouldnt mind going through Ep 3 WITH DOG!
He seems like a worthy companion, and it would seem like an awesome change from venturing with humans. It'll be good to see the way DOG fights, reacts and overcomes and situation a robot would do. Another idea, maybe when you go through the story you can add parts you find to him, since Alyx says that she gradually built him up through age.

But refering to "tiresome Alyx", I dont mind her. The thing that does annoy me is the fact she gets in the way in tight situations, one important one being in a small hallway trying to go backwards with Alyx blocking the way.
 
Forget DOG
Forget Alyx
Forget Barney (ok fine he stays)

There can only be 2 possible cannidates for who can fight with Gordon

Dr.Kleiner
Companion Cube
 
Alyx still needs to die. I think if she died it would put alot of emotion into players like IM GOING TO F U UP COMBINE and go crazy. Barney is a pretty sweet sidekick. But Alyx? Again why couldn't I follow dog at black mesa east. Why the heck did I have to go through ravenholm!!! God I hate her.
 
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