Toronto Boxing Day Shooting

[IonizeMyAtoms]

This is both disgusting and terrifying

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1135637429429

(and this is a good article that pretty much sums up how most Torontonians are feeling about the year of gunplay) http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

5pm Boxing Day, on the corner of Yonge and Gould, a supposed gang related shooting broke out, injuring six people and killing one 15 year old girl.
On a regular day, that spot is one of the busiest areas in Toronto. On Boxing Day it's absolutely packed, as it's a major shopping area
They think 15 teens and early 20somethings are involved but have only caught two, whom I don't think have been charged yet
I know this sort of thing happens every day all over the world, but to be so ****ing dimwitted and uncaring for other humans as to start shooting on a packed street in an area like that at five in the ****ing afternoon because of what might have been nothing more than a turf war is heartless and ****ed up
I live a two minute walk from there, if I wasn't home for Christmas, chances are I'd be shopping with my girlfriend around there.
Whoever wins the upcoming election: BAN ****ING HANDGUNS.
****ed. Up.

 

[Nat Turner]

Banning handguns won't get them off the streets. It'll just take away more of your rights.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Banning handguns won't get them off the streets. It'll just take away more of your rights.

I disagree
How is it your right to own something that's sole purpose is to kill? The fact that people walk around with guns with intent to kill, aren't they infringing on my rights?
I'm so sick of reading the paper every day and reading about another murder. It's asinine

 

[Teta_Bonita]

Banning handguns won't get them off the streets. It'll just take away more of your rights.

oooo that's a bold statement, can't say for sure if its true though. Even though thugs can usually get guns illegally, you have to admit that incidents like this would probabaly happen less often if handguns were banned. It's a win and lose situation: If handguns are banned, shootings occur less often, but you lose the ability to effectivly defend your home or use guns recreationaly.
Anyway, lets not make this a flame fest about gun control everybody, mkay?

 

[Icarusintel]

I read some article today where they were blaming the US for exporting violence to Canada... I like how they're passing the buck on the problem, when what they really need to do is sort it all out.

This is tragic, but living in the US, this is nothing really uncommon or new to me, so, I say deal with it

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

I read some article today where they were blaming the US for exporting violence to Canada... I like how they're passing the buck on the problem, when what they really need to do is sort it all out.

This is tragic, but living in the US, this is nothing really uncommon or new to me, so, I say deal with it

I haven't heard anyone blaming anyone but the idiots who do this kind of thing, but I'm sure you're right. Well, other than gangster rap that glorifies the gangster "culture"
Like I said in my first post, I know this happens every day, but to do it on Yonge St., mid-day, on Dec. 26 is pretty nuts.
A lot of Canadians are kind of apathetic to this kind of thing and like to believe that we're better than places like the US when it comes to crime. Which is why this hits so much harder; this is smack dab in the public eye, there's no ignoring it. It might be the proverbial straw.

 

[Nat Turner]

oooo that's a bold statement, can't say for sure if its true though. Even though thugs can usually get guns illegally, you have to admit that incidents like this would probabaly happen less often if handguns were banned. It's a win and lose situation: If handguns are banned, shootings occur less often, but you lose the ability to effectivly defend your home or use guns recreationaly.
Anyway, lets not make this a flame fest about gun control everybody, mkay?

It's basically comes down to if you're scared to have freedoms or not.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

It's basically comes down to if you're scared to have freedoms or not.

Elaborate?

 

[Nat Turner]

Elaborate?

The right to bear arms is a freedom. If you restrict it, you're taking away from people's freedom and delegating more responsibility to the government. It's a very fascist thing to do.

edit:

Basically, if you're afraid to be free, and want the government to manage more of your life, then sure, take away more rights.

 

[OvA]

"Shut Up and Smile" by Bowling for Soup

Its not the end of the world
In fact its not even the end of the summer
But thank god the tv is on
Cuz theres no way we could know
Anything that’s goin down
Or how were supposed to be feeling about it
I cant tell you how much I wish we could shut up and smile, yeah

Sail around the world and tell them all to keep singing it
la la la la la la
all we needs a harmony and we’ll convince the world to sing
la la la la la la
throw your arms around someone (throw your arms around someone)
maybe spread a little love
I know it sounds a little dumb (or maybe I’m a little drunk)
But all we need is some ice cream and a hug

Take a good look around
Does life really suck
Are we just complaining
I hope that this mic is on (testing 1, 2)
Cuz im on a roll here
I hope this is making some sense
I hope that you’ll throw up your hands and sing it
And tell all the haters that they should just shut up and smile, yeah

Sail around the world and tell them all to keep singing it
la la la la la la
all we needs a harmony and we’ll convince the world to sing
la la la la la la
throw your arms around someone (throw your arms around someone)
maybe spread a little love
I know it sounds a little dumb (or maybe I’m a little drunk)
But all we need is some ice cream

All we need is love and beer
And old school metal and holiday cheer
TO be happy
(All you need is someone near)
like ben and jerry
(to hold you close and pretend that they care)

can we all just, get along now
we found something that we all have in common now
we can hold hands, do keg stands
water skiing sounds great to me now

Sail around the world and tell them all to keep singing it
la la la la la la
all we needs a harmony and we’ll convince the world to sing
la la la la la la
throw your arms around someone (throw your arms around someone)
maybe spread a little love
I know it sounds a little dumb (or maybe we’re a little drunk)
But all we need is some ice cream and a hug

(Chanting “All we need is love and beer”)
all we need is some ice cream and a hug
all we need is some ice cream and a hug
all we need is some ice cream and a hug

 

[JNightshade]

It's really sad, but these stories don't even make an impression on me anymore. Living in the US, I hear about this shit so much, it doesn't even surprise me. Something needs to happen, though I'm not sure one. Seems to me banning handguns is the very logical first step, but then, I really haven't looked into it enough. Of course, I doubt anyone here has...

Also, the "right to have freedoms" point is moot. We aren't free to own nuclear warheads, but if we were, I'm very sure people would flip out and get defensive as soon as someone suggested banning them. Buy yourself an airsoft gun and get over it.

OR, listen to Chris Rock and restrict bullets.

Also, should this be in the politics section? I have a feeling it will end up political.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Banning handguns won't curve the violence. It would simply take weapons away from law abiding citizens where the weapons aren't a problem.

Let's see...most criminals hand guns are illegal(can't trace it if it's not legal for one thing). Second why would the criminals hand over their weapons? We need to find the source of the crime and stop that not take away the tool of it. If not hand guns people will move to some other killing weapon. So it is even worse when you can take the weapons from law abiding people the the criminals keep their already illegal weapons. It wouldn't solve anything.

This belong in the politics forum as well.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

i can see this thread headed to the politics section...
anyway, yeah i saw this on the news and yeah..it was very disturbing because there has never been as much violence in Toronto as this year... :|
i think all Canadians need to push these dense politicians to make mandatory gun related sentences tougher...i think that would be a start at least.

the other thing that needs to be done in Toronto specifically is to stop the cutting down of social programs, housing programs etc.. and try and help the more poor areas of Toronto (Regent Park is a good example).

 

[JNightshade]

Nonono. We need to ban weapons altogether. We'll get rid of war as we know it, and instead wage war in enormous multiplayer games. It won't stop violence, but at least the criminals will be forced to come up with more inventive methods of mayhem.

 

[Nat Turner]

Nonono. We need to ban weapons altogether. We'll get rid of war as we know it, and instead wage war in enormous multiplayer games. It won't stop violence, but at least the criminals will be forced to come up with more inventive methods of mayhem.

Banning stuff doesn't work. You'd have to magically make all weapons in the world disappear. And then pandemonium would break out, and millions would die.

 

[Jintor]

Yeah... but then everyone would not have any hands.

Or bodies.

Them's deadly weapons.

 

[Razor]

Banning guns doesn't work, just look at the Uk to prove that.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Banning guns doesn't work, just look at the Uk to prove that.

Yeah just look at our sky high muder rates compared to america!!!



Yes, the UK has a fair amount of gun crime. But It Does Not Compare.





And I grew up in nottingham, gun capital of the UK!! Wooo.

 

[Razor]

Yeah just look at our sky high muder rates compared to america!!!



Yes, the UK has a fair amount of gun crime. But It Does Not Compare.





And I grew up in nottingham, gun capital of the UK!! Wooo.

What i mean is, when all guns were banned, gun crime didn't go down, infact a few studies i have seen reported that gun crime went up.

If you outlaw guns, it doesn't mean that outlaws won't have guns, it just means that everyone else won't. The problem here isn't guns, the problem was gang warfare. They could of used knives, baseball bats, metal rods, but they decided to use guns. And if you ban guns, they will still have guns.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

What i mean is, when all guns were banned, gun crime didn't go down, infact a few studies i have seen reported that gun crime went up.

If you outlaw guns, it doesn't mean that outlaws won't have guns, it just means that everyone else won't. The problem here isn't guns, the problem was gang warfare. They could of used knives, baseball bats, metal rods, but they decided to use guns. And if you ban guns, they will still have guns.

Its considerable harder and more risky for the criminal to own one though.

And that arguement is old hat really, look at statistics and allmost all of em point towards:

Banning guns = less shootings.



You have to go looking for proof of the oposite, the above screams at you from everywhere else.

 

[Kangy]

What i mean is, when all guns were banned, gun crime didn't go down, infact a few studies i have seen reported that gun crime went up.

If you outlaw guns, it doesn't mean that outlaws won't have guns, it just means that everyone else won't. The problem here isn't guns, the problem was gang warfare. They could of used knives, baseball bats, metal rods, but they decided to use guns. And if you ban guns, they will still have guns.

That's still debatable, but what isn't debatable is that shootings like the one that inspired the gun ban will never happen again, because the people likely to do them are the least likely to persist in getting hold of a firearm through illegal methods.

 

[Razor]

Its considerable harder and more risky for the criminal to own one though.

And that arguement is old hat really, look at statistics and allmost all of em point towards:

Banning guns = less shootings.



You have to go looking for proof of the oposite, the above screams at you from everywhere else.

But then, how do you explain countries like Switherland where guncrime is nowhere near anything in the Uk or the US, the gun laws there are more lax then they are in America. And whether some mad man goes nuts with a gun or not, he will still go nuts and he will still manage to kill people...whether it be by home made explosives, swords, knives, etc, etc, etc.

Guns don't kill people, it's whomever pulls the trigger.

 

[Fishlore]

If guns kill people then spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.

 

[Anthraxxx]

A law banning guns isn't going to stop a criminal from using one. and if there were no gus to use, then he'd probably end up using a knife.

 

[Spectre01]

Handguns are already banned in Canada. You can only own a hunting rifle with a licence but there is no legal way you can own a handgun.

 

[short recoil]

Nat turner, you speak the truth.

Banning handguns means only the criminals have them, you think banning guns stops criminals getting them?
If anything it actually INCREASES them having them for several reasons:
1. People want to get rid of their guns if they don't want to get a license, criminals are willing to pay a high price.
2. Due to the fact it's banned it's black market value goes up, if someone can get $1000 for every mac 10 they sell, they are gonna do it, leading to a drive for import and underground manufacture of firearms, think prohibition of alcohol in america....that worked well.

It also increases the likelyhood of shootings involving police/civilians, if there is a high penalty for owning a gun they are more likely to shoot anyone who is likely to report/arrest them.

If gun control does not work in the UK, a small easily policed island it's sure as hell not gonna work in america.

All it takes to own a sub machine gun is a few hand tools, off cuts of metal and a few hours worth of work.

 

[JNightshade]

Umm... Nat... I was making a joke.
But one thing is for sure, something has to change. I don't believe we need to ban them, although it is logical. However, look at the number of gun crimes in Canada, compared to the number here- and then look at how many guns are in Canada! It must be cultural, or something...


maybe Americans just have better aim

 

[B.Calhoun]

haha


6char

 

[dream431ca]

This will never end as far as I can see it. Banning is not the solution. It'll just cause more unregistered guns stolen and more crime to happen. It's very unfortuate that Toronto is becoming like this. The City needs one hell of a plan to slow this sort of thing down, and eventually stop it. But I don't see how banning handguns will help. What you need is extreme cooperation with the city administration and the police. You need to get most of the unregisterd guns of the street, and get rid of all the major gangs in the City, and keep an extremelty tight profile on ALL people who you believe are prone to this sort of thing. It's not easy, so it will take many years.

 

[SimonomiS]

OR, listen to Chris Rock and restrict bullets.

Also, should this be in the politics section? I have a feeling it will end up political.

I agree on both points.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

like i said already in this thread, a gun ban alone will not do much...it has to be a combination of things.

gun ban + mandatory minimum gun related sentence made tougher
also, helping out those poor neighborhoods instead of cutting programs left, right and centre every year does not help.

i believe criminals will think twice if the sentencing is tougher... 5, maybe 6 years for a gun related crime at the minimum...stiff punishment.

 

[dream431ca]

Umm... Nat... I was making a joke.
But one thing is for sure, something has to change. I don't believe we need to ban them, although it is logical. However, look at the number of gun crimes in Canada, compared to the number here- and then look at how many guns are in Canada! It must be cultural, or something...


maybe Americans just have better aim

Canada has a whole lot of guns, I own 3 high powered rifles and an AK-47. My neighbour owns 2 glocks and one carbine. The reason why your country has so much more gun deaths is because, your second amendment says you have the right to bare arms (in some states it's illegal not to bare arms), which means that you can carry a gun around for defending (killing) anyone who tries to kill you. It's your choice to have this, and it's your choice for all the gun killings as well. In Canada, there is no reason to shoot anyone with a gun. We do something much worse here, steal all their beer! :thumbs:

 

[short recoil]

i believe criminals will think twice if the sentencing is tougher... 5, maybe 6 years for a gun related crime at the minimum...stiff punishment.

No, they are more likely to shoot an officer (officers, or anyone else) to avoid a higher scentance after being caught.
Put it this way, if you had done something illeagal in your country that meant you'd get a £300 fine you'd prob go along with it, if they were after you for a 6 year scentance, you'd do ANYTHING to avoid getting caught, including killing someone.
The idea of a criminal is that they make a living from flaunting whats illeagal, if they want a gun they will get one no matter what the law is.

 

[dream431ca]

No, they are more likely to shoot an officer (officers, or anyone else) to avoid a higher scentance after being caught.

You know, that is a extreme contradiction. How the hell would killing someone (especially an officer) avoid a higher sentence?? That makes no sense to me. It's like saying "Lets put out the fire with Gasoline!!" Doesn't really work.

 

[short recoil]

You know, that is a extreme contradiction. How the hell would killing someone (especially an officer) avoid a higher sentence?? That makes no sense to me. It's like saying "Lets put out the fire with Gasoline!!" Doesn't really work.

How else does someone avoid arrest?
"noes, leave me alone"
"oh ok then"

When a criminal has a gun and is under stress (they think they'll get a massive scentance) they will start shooting.

 

[dream431ca]

How else does someone avoid arrest?
"noes, leave me alone"
"oh ok then"

When a criminal has a gun and is under stress (they think they'll get a massive scentance) they will start shooting.

When they start shooting they get a bigger sentence. So the thinking of the criminal is stupid. "You are going to jail!!" "NO I'M NOT!!!" BANG!!! four days later, "Your going to Jail.....Longer"

 

[alehm]

I think Canada should put a higher import tax on gun violence coming in from the US. It's pretty simple really, eveytime customs see a crate of "Gun Violence" coming over they just charge more money. That way Americans will get mad and export the violence elsewhere.

 

[Yuri]

Stupid Americans, stop talking about Canadian affairs with your dumb shit.

I wish everywhere would ban all firearms like Japan did.

 

[Nat Turner]

Stupid Americans, stop talking about Canadian affairs with your dumb shit.

I wish everywhere would ban all firearms like Japan did.

So criminals can break into everyone's undefended home?

 

[Yuri]

So criminals can break into everyone's undefended home?

That happens all the time in Japan, doesn't it? Yeah, like all the time. Poor Japanese, always getting robbed. Probably like five times a day!

lol bettar watch out cuz firearms were illegalized... CRIMINAL RAGE! No one is safe now!!!

"Undefended home." What about all my tripwire mines and gun turrents? Those damn criminals come in waves, you know.