Transformers

[CptStern]

Ah, but you know about the Big Mac, don't you? That meat may be processed so much that there's no flavor left, but that's why they inject the meat with flavor that they know people like. McDonald's didn't make its money making a good burger, they made their money by making a consistent burger.

you miss my point

Anyway, there's a lot of focus on Michael Bay here. Michael Bay this, Michael Bay that, his movies suck

well the thread is about one of his movies ..and yes he does suck ...as a film maker ..as an action film big box office movie maker he's quite good at what he does: delevering expensive schlock

...actually he even rips on himself about Armageddon in Transformers. But who cares who did it, y'know? Seriously, a couple of us guys hanging around outside after the premier were like, "Michael Bay? CLEAN SLATE." I don't give two shits about how bad Pearl Harbor was, this man made Transformers. And he did it well.

I guess I'm so far removed that I wouldnt be able to see the difference between any of his films ..from the rock to armaggeddon to the rock ..just pure unmitigated dreck ..again that's my opinion. And I agree, one movie does not give him a clean slate

In that same conversation outside the theater I was telling somebody, "It's like George Lucas. Episode 3 gave him the clean slate. It makes even Episodes 1 and 2 awesome movies." And they were GARBAGE. Friggin' garbage.

I guess, never been that much of a fan of lucas ..besides perhaps the entertainment factor of the first 2 movies ..after that it became more about the toys

Like I said, it just comes down to if you like Transformers or not.

no it doesnt ..I shouldnt have to be a fan of the toys/cartoon to enjoy a movie, it should stand on it's own merits

Anyone who saw the movie and loved The Transformers as a kid, you wouldn't care who it was directed by, you wouldn't care what that person'd done in the past

yes I would, even more so due to those very facts ..you dont want someone to butcher something you hold dear

you wouldn't care about anything except for the fact that this movie was incredible on some kind of scale that in itself is to incredible to even talk about. It was THAT good.

oh come on I cant take you seriously here

I mean, that's the whole reason I've been hearing complaints about camera angles or humor or this and that. It's because people who weren't transformers fans can focus on all these other things. Transformers fans see only the transformers. That's what we're seeing. It's too much for us, it's too cool. Camera angles, what? Man did you see Optimus Prime?! That's what I saw. What camera angles? This movie's directed by WHO? I don't give a ****; Megatron berated Starscream with a line from the original '86 movie!

That's how we're seeing it.

I dont care about camera angles ..there's a certain type of film making called Dogme 95 ..it's based on a set of strict rules filmakers must use when making their films (no cuts, sound must be on location and not edited afterwards etc) ..the point was to force the director to tell a good story and not focus on technique ...Michael Bay is all technique ..in other words I wouldnt care about the camera angles (either good or bad) because ultimately it's in the story where it falls apart ..if the Transformers were filmed according to the rules of Dogme it would be apparent how flimsy the entire thing is; by definition it favours style over substance. I brought Dogme up not as an example of what movies should do but rather as a means of illustrating how stripping a film of all of it's artifice reveals whether the story itself stands on it's own merits ..my guess is that it doesnt

that said I loved El Mariachi/Desperado: a completely over the top action movie ..mostly for it's extreme kick assery ..I do like mindless fun, I'm just choosey I guess

 

[brink's]

Actually his films are getting pretty expensive..Sicko budget was about 9 million( yea nothing compared to TF or spiderman) but thats more then enough to make a great fiction film...Memento cost about the same amount.

Stern has a point, you never feel challenged by his movies nor do you feel any sort of intrigue. Most of the time, if you have a brain, you are just watching the clock because you know whats coming next.

Also, im surprised you don't care who directs the films you watch, obviously you feel that TF was a success despite Bay's involvement. But, for those who are looking for more then teh expl0zionz, his involvement is major detraction if he isn't willing to switch up his style. Plus, how can you say camera angles don't matter? they make up the entire ****ing film....( from a technical standpoint)

Im gonna dl some of those movies, stern

 

[Absinthe]

This idea that one needs to be a Transformers fan in order to like the Transformers film is pretty silly. By saying the only thing you cared about was the sheer existence of these robots on the big screen, you pretty much admitted to blinding out everything that was at fault with the film (or at least that's how I'm understanding it). If that's the case, then are you serious when you call it the best movie ever, or are you just using hyperbole?

I may not have been a Transformers fanboy, but I liked it enough. Enough to say that the movie didn't do it justice. Bay has no sense of pacing, character development, drama, or coordination to his films. Bay directing this film in itself isn't bad. It's that his trademarked, big, ridiculous, loud mediocrity is present in almost every scene. I wasn't expecting depth, but I was expecting a rhythm that could maximize its potential awesomeness. And even when the grand fight scenes did come around, there was never a sense of some game plan. It's like the Autobots and Decepticons were pitted against each other at random in some sprawling monster-mash. It felt dumb.

If you liked the film, then alright. I was not a child of the same era, so I'm willing to grant that I perhaps don't have the right paradigm when looking at this movie. But I think it's inarguable that this film could have been done better.

 

[CptStern]

Actually his films are getting pretty expensive..Sicko budget was about 9 million( yea nothing compared to TF or spiderman) but thats more then enough to make a great fiction film...Memento cost about the same amount.

Stern has a point, you never feel challenged by his movies nor do you feel any sort of intrigue. Most of the time, if you have a brain, you are just watching the clock because you know whats coming next.

Also, im surprised you don't care who directs the films you watch, obviously you feel that TF was a success despite Bay's involvement. But, for those who are looking for more then teh expl0zionz, his involvement is major detraction if he isn't willing to switch up his style. Plus, how can you say camera angles don't matter? they make up the entire ****ing film....( from a technical standpoint)

Im gonna dl some of those movies, stern

no, wait you'll hate them ..they're not very accesible ..ok one or two are ok so long as you are open minded and dont mind excessive shakey cams, ...oh and they're almost all subtitled ...these two are probably the best of the bunch: the Idiots, The Celebration (NWS) ..funny/disturbing but extremely raw ..the idiots especially

 

[brink's]

no, wait you'll hate them ..they're not very accesible ..ok one or two are ok so long as you are open minded and dont mind excessive shakey cams, ...oh and they're almost all subtitled ...these two are probably the best of the bunch: the Idiots, The Celebration (NWS) ..funny/disturbing but extremely raw ..the idiots especially

I like a farely wide range of movies. Sure i love stupid shit like Army of darkness and die hard, but im an even bigger fan of Kubrick, Scorsese( his best work), Coppola etc. So far I've been limited mostly to american flicks....but i tend to love the more artistic side of American cinema.

Do i come off as a guy who likes overly accessible crap?

 

[Darkside55]

you miss my point

Did I? You were saying that his films have no real substance, and I was saying that nobody cares whether the meat isn't meat because they enjoy the taste, whatever it is. Maybe I misunderstood, but that was what I was saying. People don't care what it is, long as it tastes good and it's billed as meat.

Sly Stallone in Demolition Man, y'know? "This is good rat burger."

well the thread is about one of his movies ..and yes he does suck ...as a film maker ..as an action film big box office movie maker he's quite good at what he does: delevering expensive schlock

I guess I'm so far removed that I wouldnt be able to see the difference between any of his films ..from the rock to armaggeddon to the rock ..just pure unmitigated dreck ..again that's my opinion. And I agree, one movie does not give him a clean slate

But it seems like the big focus is on him as a director. Really, I couldn't care less about any of his other movies, as I said. Bad Boys was funny...Pearl Harbor was ass...I can bear sitting through Armaggedon...never saw The Rock. But I don't care about any of those movies. Actually, that requires emphasis; I don't care about any of those movies, I CARE about Transformers. It should be noted that you're talking to a guy who watched the original TF movie so many times as a child that I can quote the movie verbatim for you, sing you all the 80s buttrock songs in it, listen to the soundtrack and tell you what lines are being spoken at exactly what times in the movie. I could tell you about Megatron's master plan and why Wheeljack built the dinobots with simple brains. I'm on some video documentary about transformers telling people why Optimus Prime's sacrifice as a soldier was necessary in the animated movie, versus all those whiners who complained and cried that Optimus died.

So it's like, there's a lot of Bay talk. Not enough Transformers talk. I just really don't give a damn about his other movies. In my opinion he did this movie well, he did this movie right. I was ready to hate. I went into that theater waiting to stand up, grab the Autobot Matrix of Leadership and shout, "Wait! I'll fix this!" if the movie was crap. But it wasn't. Bay actually got through this entire movie and not only did he NOT rape my childhood, he did right by it. He did so right by it I can't even believe it. There's been so much shit in the Transformers universe for the past couple of years man, it's seemed everything in the franchise was going downhill and all we had was Generation 1. And then this movie comes along. And Transformers are vindicated again.

I guess, never been that much of a fan of lucas ..besides perhaps the entertainment factor of the first 2 movies ..after that it became more about the toys

I've never been a fan of Lucas either. I was a fan of Star Wars...but my favorite movies, ESB and RoTJ, weren't even directed by Lucas. So there you go. The ones he himself did were ass, except for Episode 3, which makes the other ones, when viewed next to Episode 3, alright. There's a term for that, but it's basically when viewed as a whole one piece makes everything better by relation.

no it doesnt ..I shouldnt have to be a fan of the toys/cartoon to enjoy a movie, it should stand on it's own merits

While that's somewhat true, you're not going to enjoy it as much. You won't get everything. There are things in this movie that you'd only understand if you were a fan of the original series, and to other people they might enjoy those scenes but they wouldn't GET it. People who didn't know about G1 would find it funny that Bumblebee hit another car in the dealership because he was trying to get purchased, and the other car was competition. People who knew G1 laughed because he hit a 1971 yellow VW Bug, the ORIGINAL Bumblebee's alt mode.

Your average moviegoer would sort-of understand why Megatron remarks that Starscream has "failed him again"; but there's no context to it outside of the movie. That line is specifically for fans, you see, because nowhere in the movie has Starscream previously failed him. And it's a throwback to the '86 movie. "Unlike some of my other warriors (indicating Starscream), you never fail me." And believe me they were pulling lines left and right out of that movie. They threw a lot of bones to the fans.

yes I would, even more so due to those very facts ..you dont want someone to butcher something you hold dear

Like I said, I was ready to hate. Ever since I first saw what Megatron looked like, I was drinking haterade every day. Eventually Megatron's new look grew on me but for the longest time I was like, "This movie's gonna be shit, this movie's gonna suck, look at their designs." I read one of the original scripts for the movie and there was so much in there that I was against, even knowing that action scenes read shorter than dialogue in a script, but I was just like, "Is this movie going to be all about humans? Why're there so many human characters?" So I was concerned, less for it being directed by Michael Bay but more from what I was seeing initially.

And then I watched the movie and my jaw was on the floor. I watched the movie and I was jumping out of my seat and getting people to cheer. Couldn't believe it. It was just too good.

oh come on I cant take you seriously here

It was that good. To me, it was that good. To everyone in that theater, it was THAT good.

I dont care about camera angles ..there's a certain type of film making called Dogme 95 ..it's based on a set of strict rules filmakers must use when making their films (no cuts, sound must be on location and not edited afterwards etc) ..the point was to force the director to tell a good story and not focus on technique ...Michael Bay is all technique ..in other words I wouldnt care about the camera angles (either good or bad) because ultimately it's in the story where it falls apart ..if the Transformers were filmed according to the rules of Dogme it wouldnt be instantly be apparent how flimsy the entire thing is. I brought Dogme up not as an example of what movies should do but rather as a means of illustrating how stripping a film of all of it's artifice reveals whether the story itself stands on it's own merits ..my guess is that it doesnt

Well you couldn't film Transformers like that anyway, not strictly. It'd be impossible unless you found real transformers.

But I will say that the story was light. I'm not going to call it flimsy, because I don't feel that it was, but it was very light. It explained the pure basics of what was going on and no more. The movie is action. It's your action blockbuster. I tell you, the ORIGINAL animated movie had more story going for it. Actually it had a lot of story, but at the time you were expected to know everything about the transformers if you were watching that movie. It's somewhat the same for this movie, except that they were trying to introduce a 23-year-old series, with a lot of backstory, in a 2 hour movie. On top of that it's designed to pull in a crowd and make money.

Now, when the sequels are filmed (hooray), I expect there'll be a lot more story to them because the setting's already introduced.

Stern has a point, you never feel challenged by his movies nor do you feel any sort of intrigue. Most of the time, if you have a brain, you are just watching the clock because you know whats coming next.

I knew what was coming next in this movie because I read the scripts. But even then some things surprised me. They changed a few things, some minor and some major. There were some major changes that happened.

In any case I had no time to look at my watch because my eyes were superglued to the screen.

Also, im surprised you don't care who directs the films you watch, obviously you feel that TF was a success despite Bay's involvement. But, for those who are looking for more then teh expl0zionz, his involvement is major detraction if he isn't willing to switch up his style. Plus, how can you say camera angles don't matter? they make up the entire ****ing film....

To be honest? I don't think it was a success despite Bay's involvement. Nor do I think it was necessarily a success because of his involvement, but if there's one thing this man knows it's 'splosions. He knows how to do your high-budget action film. That's what he does.

I credit most of this film to Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who wrote the script.

And what I meant by camera angles is that I've heard a few complaints about them and honestly I didn't see anything wrong with them. I thought they were fine.

 

[CptStern]

I like a farely wide range of movies. Sure i love stupid shit like Army of darkness and die hard, but im an even bigger fan of Kubrick, Scorsese( his best work), Coppola etc. So far I've been limited mostly to american flicks....but i tend to love the more artistic side of American cinema.

I loved Evil dead

Do i come off as a guy who likes overly accessible crap?

heh no I didnt mean it that way ..it's somewhat inaccesible even to die hard film buffs ..sometimes the slavish adherence to the rules distracts somewhat ..watch the trailers (havent seen them but I've watched the movies)

 

[Darkside55]

This idea that one needs to be a Transformers fan in order to like the Transformers film is pretty silly. By saying the only thing you cared about was the sheer existence of these robots on the big screen, you pretty much admitted to blinding out everything that was at fault with the film (or at least that's how I'm understanding it). If that's the case, then are you serious when you call it the best movie ever, or are you just using hyperbole?

It would not have been enough to see them, no. If they were misrepresented in any way, if they'd somehow been out of character or do stupid things, or be seen as JUST giant robots with no personality or only the basest of personalities, then I could have said, "That could have been done better." In fact, as far as the Decepticon side goes, a lot of them were no-line thugs, but considering that most of those Decepticons were creations for the movie I had no problems with that. Bonecrusher was a movie Decepticon, Devastator was a movie Decepticon in everything but his name. Oddly enough I generally hate when they give old names to characters that have nothing to do with the originals, but for some reason I don't care about it being done with Devastator. I don't know why, but it's OK with me.

But everything was represented well. The personalities of the bots, their designs, how they spoke and emoted and behaved. Had anything actually been WRONG I'd probably be the loudest detractor of this film, yet thankfully I sincerely say that I find this to be the second best movie in existence. Nothing can ever bump off the first, so had this movie been terrible at least I'd have that. But it was grand. That's how I'm going to describe this movie from now on. GRAND.

I may not have been a Transformers fanboy, but I liked it enough. Enough to say that the movie didn't do it justice. Bay has no sense of pacing, character development, drama, or coordination to his films. Bay directing this film in itself isn't bad. It's that his trademarked, big, ridiculous, loud mediocrity is present in almost every scene. I wasn't expecting depth, but I was expecting a rhythm that could maximize its potential awesomeness. And even when the grand fight scenes did come around, there was never a sense of some game plan. It's like the Autobots and Decepticons were pitted against each other at random in some sprawling monster-mash. It felt dumb.

I disagree. As I said previously, you're cramming a lot of stuff in there for people new to the franchise. The movie had to be paced to show all this stuff, to introduce Spike (I just can't call him Sam! Sam Witwicky? It's a good name, but it's no Spike), to introduce the transformers and their story, you've gotta devote a lot of time to action and the "cool" scenes. Character development, at least for the bots themselves, can't come until later. If you look at the way certain bots' personalities evolved, even in the original series they evolve over time. Certainly not the time it takes to fill a 2-hour movie. Look at Hot Rod. Goes from brash, rule-breaking speed demon to adult, chosen leader of the Autobots in the first film, and the latter is only in the last 25 minutes. You don't even get to gauge his new personality until season 3 of the show where it reveals all his self-doubt and inadequacies with being the predecessor of Optimus Prime. So they can only cram so much stuff into a movie. And again, there WILL be sequels. Spielberg said so. Prepare for character development. And dinobots. Prepare for DINOBOTS!

If you liked the film, then alright. I was not a child of the same era, so I'm willing to grant that I perhaps don't have the right paradigm when looking at this movie. But I think it's inarguable that this film could have been done better.

Well, I'll tell you how this film could've been better. I can agree on this, there's something that would've made this film better.

If, at the end of the movie, after all the credits, you saw a giant shadow blotting out part of the sun. Oh yes, that would've made this movie 1,000,000 times better. And would have also guaranteed that I would've needed a change of pants after leaving the theater.

 

[Absinthe]

D:

 

[Sparta]

Ok, for a start the following sentence -

And he did it well. In that same conversation outside the theater I was telling somebody, "It's like George Lucas. Episode 3 gave him the clean slate. It makes even Episodes 1 and 2 awesome movies." And they were GARBAGE. Friggin' garbage.

-nullifies your entire argument right there. Sure Episode 3 had awesome special effects, but my god it has the worst dialog in any film i've ever seen.

Anakin Skywalker: You are so... beautiful.
Padm?: It's only because I'm so in love.
Anakin Skywalker: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
Padm?: So love has blinded you?

My god, how many critics shot themselves after hearing those lines? And Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman can actually act. Sure doesn't show in Episode 3 but anyone whose a fan of Portman knows she is, and you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who wasn't impressed with Hayden Christensen's performance in Shattered Glass. Anyway, enough of that.

I mean, that's the whole reason I've been hearing complaints about camera angles or humor or this and that. It's because people who weren't transformers fans can focus on all these other things.

Pish-posh i say. Me and my brother love Transformers, we grew up on it, we own the animated movie and love it. Yet we both thought it was a terribly flawed film. There is really so many simple things Bay could've done to improve the film. For a start that could've bought Megatron into it before the last ****ing act of the film. I mean, jesus he's the main villian and they gave him 2 minutes of backstory in a 150 minute film before you finally see him in the last 20 minutes of it. And even then he had like...what....20 lines? And how he's killed is just ****ing ridiculous.

And i could a 1000 word essay on whats wrong with Michael Bay's direction in this film. But i'll keep it short by saying i was really disappointed with how he directed the action sequences, especially considering he's supposed to be an action director.

 

[Zephos]

Oddly, all the true former fans of Transformers I've come across (not the bastards that saw an episode of a series and suddenly jumped on the bandwagon) were horrified at this film.

 

[Harryz]

For me, this article pretty much sums up Michael Gay (see what I did there).

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/37499

-written by Bay.

Frankly, for real icebergs, they looked fake.

 

[lePobz]

Kickass.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Going to go see it in a week. When i come back from the beach, going to go with some friends here. Worst case scenario i see it july 15-16.

Well that would be lucky, the UK don't get to see it till the end of the month ;(

 

[DEATH eVADER]

..I'm saying the sole reason for being is as an advertisement ..it's like a glorified commercial

Much like beer. Even though it tastes like something that you have just puked out about an hour ago, people still drink the stuff, because everybody does it.

 

[CptStern]

I like the taste of beer

 

[Absinthe]

Much like beer. Even though it tastes like something that you have just puked out about an hour ago, people still drink the stuff, because everybody does it.

But beer tastes/feels awesome.

 

[Asknoone]

I don't drink beer. It's horrible.

 

[Absinthe]

Feckin' pussies. (Don't hurt me D

 

[Kamikazie]

I saw it last night and I have to agree with Darkside.

I dunno, it just had everything I was looking for in the film, except a few parts... As it was brought up earlier, how Bay just dealt with Megatron in general. And why did Prime have to deal with the Mustang cop? Why couldn't have Frenzy just blown him away?

All in all I thought it was a great action movie.

 

[CptStern]

I actually like the taste of tequila and other hard liquors ..had a couple of shots of ukranian vodka the other night at a friends ...very very smooth with a slight black licorice taste




see a name like Megatron just screams "15 suits in a boardroom trying to decide what name kids would identify with most in turn influencing their buying decision" ....men in suits in boardrooms are usually not the most creative people ...art by committee is not art, it's advertising ..but again I'm not the target audience and would probably have trouble distancing myself from the fact that the entire core of the transformers is as a vehicle to sell toys

 

[brink's]

All liquor tastes like shit...whether it be beer,that chocolate stuff or hard liquor. It all tastes like Battery acid, except Tequila isn't so bad, i can stomach that for some reason......

 

[Darkside55]

Sure Episode 3 had awesome special effects, but my god it has the worst dialog in any film i've ever seen...

...And Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman can actually act.

I won't argue with you about the dialogue, but the movie itself was pretty badass. At least compared to the others. And you have to admit the final fight was what everyone'd been waiting to see since the 70's.

Portman hasn't acted well since Leon, btw. Point to me a movie where she acts better than she does as Mathilda and I'll take a look, but I've yet to see any movie she does recently where she acts even a quarter as good as she did back then in her first role. But, I'm going off on a tangent here.

Pish-posh i say. Me and my brother love Transformers, we grew up on it, we own the animated movie and love it. Yet we both thought it was a terribly flawed film. There is really so many simple things Bay could've done to improve the film. For a start that could've bought Megatron into it before the last ****ing act of the film. I mean, jesus he's the main villian and they gave him 2 minutes of backstory in a 150 minute film before you finally see him in the last 20 minutes of it. And even then he had like...what....20 lines? And how he's killed is just ****ing ridiculous.

And what exactly could you have done with Megatron, showing him before "the last 20 minutes?" Simple things? You'd have to completely rewrite the script. What COULD Megatron have done, the way the whole thing was proposed? I thought it was a good plot. It reminded me very much of the Dreamwave comic series, where the military captures Megatron and attempts to control him, and the Decepticons attempt to revive him (or rather, he ends up reviving himself).

Megatron was used as the final "boss" and it was a good tactic. Hey, you've got the movie, and I've got the entire movie in my head (), so let's go over how long Megatron was in TF:TM and how many lines of dialogue he had in that movie, shall we?

Starting from, "It is the year 2005," Megatron is in the movie for about 20-40 minutes maximum until he's reformatted into Galvatron. In that time, counting lines as dialogue without pauses, he has...lemme think...from, "Welcome, Lazerbeak" to "I accept your terms, I ACCEPT!" he has 32 lines. 32 vs. 20 ain't that much difference. Screentime's about the same. Also, Megatron's battle with Prime in the first movie was 2 minutes, 27 seconds long, which wasn't much longer than it was in Bay's movie. And how'd he spend the rest of his time in BOTH movies? Tearing the shit out of other Autobots. See, peoples' complaints don't make too much sense when you break it down to numbers.

A lot of people say too, "Simple things could've been done," or "I could've done a better job," but really, could you have? What would YOU have done?

Oddly, all the true former fans of Transformers I've come across (not the bastards that saw an episode of a series and suddenly jumped on the bandwagon) were horrified at this film.

If by "true transformers fans" you mean those fat whiners who're always like, *nerd voice*, "Eeeh, Megatron was a GUN! Where's the old transformer sound? Why isn't Stan Bush on the soundtrack? They should've put Frank Welker in the movie instead of Agent Smith! Why is Bumblebee a camero? GEEEEEEEEE WUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" then those people aren't so much fans as people stuck in the past too much. That's why I tend to stay off of Transfan messageboards...everyone's a whiner. Something's always WRONG for them. You'll never relive your childhood, fags, get over it.

I'm one of the most hardcore diehard transformers fans you'll ever meet and even I hate those people. And fyi, I don't know if you were addressing me specifically, maybe you weren't, but I'm not one of those people who "saw one episode and jumped on the bandwagon." I've been watching transformers longer than most fans have been ALIVE. Not to brag, but here's some nerd cred, the Transformers movie was released in less than 90 theaters in the whole US of A. Most people you talk to never even got to see the film in theaters. I've talked to some fans who didn't even know it was released. And I watched that movie at least twice a week for its nearly two-month run at my local theater. And I was home every afternoon watching the series. I had all the toys, brother, ALL the toys. I had friggin' the Rodimus Prime with the chrome feet AND the airbrushed metal face. How many people can you say had THAT one? Most slobs only got the one with the plastic feet and plastic face or the chrome feet and plastic face variant. Die hard dude. DIE HARD.

I actually like the taste of tequila and other hard liquors ..had a couple of shots of ukranian vodka the other night at a friends ...very very smooth with a slight black licorice taste

I don't care for vodka. Rum's my drink of choice. Tequila...tequila's alright. I'll drink it. I'm also a pale ale kinda guy.

see a name like Megatron just screams "15 suits in a boardroom trying to decide what name kids would identify with most in turn influencing their buying decision" ....men in suits in boardrooms are usually not the most creative people

His original name in Japan was Gun Robo. Megatron...Gun Robo...well, at least our suits are more creative than Japanese toymakers.

 

[Zephos]

I'm one of the most hardcore diehard transformers fans you'll ever meet and even I hate those people. And fyi, I don't know if you were addressing me specifically, maybe you weren't, but I'm not one of those people who "saw one episode and jumped on the bandwagon."

No, I was addressing the bandwagoners at my school

 

[Darkside55]

Ah. Well, expect to see a lot more of those people after this weekend. Not that that's a bad thing. Anything that brings the fans in, I guess. Rather I should say anything that makes money so we can get more sequels. I want my TF trilogy with Unicron.

There's a new cartoon coming out too, done by the people responsible for Teen Titans; real cartoony, exaggerated proportions, you can tell it's meant for the kids. So a lot of new fans coming in from there too. It's going to be interesting to think that in 20 years fans of the new movie and the new show are going to be having the same kind of memories us guys from the 80s are having, with a completely different image of the series.

 

[Ridge]

I kinda fall into the bandwagon...probably a month or so before the first word of the movie came out, I had started watching Cybertron on Cartoon Network every morning...I cried during the final episode...and the day I saw the final episode was the day I heard about the movie coming out...talk about weird.

But hell, I loved it. I will go back to see it 2 or 3 more times during the theater run, then buy at least 2 copies of the DVD on release day...

 

[Sparta]

Portman hasn't acted well since Leon, btw. Point to me a movie where she acts better than she does as Mathilda and I'll take a look, but I've yet to see any movie she does recently where she acts even a quarter as good as she did back then in her first role.

She was nominated for an Oscar for her supporting role in the film "Closer" back in 2005. I didn't like the film but she was still really good in it.

And what exactly could you have done with Megatron, showing him before "the last 20 minutes?" Simple things? You'd have to completely rewrite the script. What COULD Megatron have done, the way the whole thing was proposed? I thought it was a good plot.

A lot of people say too, "Simple things could've been done," or "I could've done a better job," but really, could you have? What would YOU have done?

Ok, lets talk about some simple things that could've been done to make Megatron look like more of a badass than a throw away badguy.

1.Bring him into the film at the beginning instead of mentioning him in a flashback an hour and half through the film. This could be done by simply starting the film with a flashback of Sam's grandfather on that expedition to the Artic/Antarctic. If Bay did this, at least you'd know as soon as the film starts, who the major villian of the movie is supposed to be. Also i would've shot and edited the sequence differently. When Megatron was revealed in that flashback scene, he was hardly revealed at all. It was like, two, maybe three shots of him in the ice that lasted about 3-4 seconds each and the whole sequence was over in a minute or two. Bay never pulled back to reveal the size of Megatron as he was frozen in the ice, but Megatron was ****ing massive in the film, he was 2-3 times larger than all the other Transformers. Where's the menace? Bay should've pulled the camera back and let us see how massive he was then and there. Or at least some glimpse of how big and menacing he is. It was terribly done.

2.Better reveal of Megatron at Sector 7 base. When Sam and all the supporting cast finally see Megatron frozen in the Sector 7 base, its anti-climatic. There's no sense of anticipation or tension before and when you see him and he has almost no menace in his presence. It was poorly done.

Here is an example of how to do a reveal
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Az1xP2jDY[/YOUTUBE]
There's one shot in there were Peter Fonda steps out from behind a bush, and in just that one shot, it manages to capture how evil this character is supposed to be.

Granted, Megatron didn't kill several members of one family before he was revealed, but Megatron is an evil galatic ruler trying to conquer the universe so he should be menacing. He wasn't. So what are some simple things they could've done with that scene to make Megatron more menacing?

Move the dialog where Sam describes Megatron as being some badass tyrant from beyond the stars coming here to steal the cube and conquer the universe to before they see Megatron. Just before they enter the room with Megatron in it. Hell, they could even have put that flashback sequence of him tearing shit up on Cybertron in there as Sam is describing how badass he is. And then the doors open slowly and the cast is hit by this massive white light. Their eyes adjust and they see the silhouette of Megatron standing there before them. That would've been much better, and simple too. At least then it establishes some presence. I mean, heck, Bay should've just watched Close Encounters of The Third Kind and he'd have a much better idea of how to reveal Megatron.

Pay attention to the lighting and camera work in this scene and you'll have an idea of what i'm talking about. Hell, even the first two shots in this scene are filmed and lit better than the reveal of Megatron.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUcOaGawIW0[/YOUTUBE]
Heck, that sequence has more tension and anticipation then the reveal of Megatron. Spielberg directed it and he was the producer of Transformers! Why didn't Bay consult on some of this stuff. I'm sure he did, but not when he revealed Megatron.

Bah.

I can go on like this for pages if you want me to but its not gonna change your opinion or anyone elses opinion of the film. My point stays the same. Bay's direction sucks, and there's tons of simple things he could've done to improve the film. I just wrote almost 650 words on 2 things he could've done to improve the film. Those 2 things revolving around 1 specific character thats only in the film for 20 minutes. I could 5000 words on this and still be nowhere close to finish, because thats how bad Michael Bay is at directing.

I will say though, that you know more about Transformers than me. So i'm not going to try and prove that i know more about the animated movie when i don't. You win at that one. But Michael Bay sucks. He really does. I've seen t.v. shows that have been directed better. I'm not talking about HBO shows either.

 

[Darkside55]

I'll have to check out Closer. I'll actually be glad to see Portman act well because for the longest time I've been seeing her movies and thinking, "How is it possible she could act better at 11 than as an adult?"

Regarding Megatron, I liked his reveal. It reminded me somewhat of the reveal of the alien spaceship from ID4; there was nothing really spectacular about it, and it was a very static scene, with people looking up at this spaceship that is of grand importance to them and yet isn't really doing anything. It was also very brightly lit and had no tension or drama behind it. Brent Spiner says, "Hey, you guys wanna see it?" and they show it. For Megatron, showing him like that made it all the more dramatic to me when he awoke. It was a very placid reveal, and you knew what was going to happen, but when it happened it was cool.

And as much as it seems (even to me), I'm not trying to defend Bay here. In fact the way I feel about how Megatron was revealed was probably completely accidental on Bay's part. Maybe he was trying to go for tension and an epic showing of Megatron with the size of the Sector 7 bunker and all the people working on keeping him frozen and contained, but ultimately if that's what he was going for he failed in it. I'm not sure what his thought process was for that scene. But it was a very passive showing, and personally I liked that. I don't think it needed drama. Much like the ID4 ship, it was, "Hey, you guys wanna see Megatron? Here's Megatron."

Also, that damn scene from Close Encounters of the Third Kind scared (scares) the crap out of me. When the ship opens and the alien steps out, all spindly-looking. But I digress.

 

[Sparta]

Regarding Megatron, I liked his reveal. It reminded me somewhat of the reveal of the alien spaceship from ID4; there was nothing really spectacular about it, and it was a very static scene, with people looking up at this spaceship that is of grand importance to them and yet isn't really doing anything. It was also very brightly lit and had no tension or drama behind it. Brent Spiner says, "Hey, you guys wanna see it?" and they show it. For Megatron, showing him like that made it all the more dramatic to me when he awoke. It was a very placid reveal, and you knew what was going to happen, but when it happened it was cool.

And as much as it seems (even to me), I'm not trying to defend Bay here. In fact the way I feel about how Megatron was revealed was probably completely accidental on Bay's part. Maybe he was trying to go for tension and an epic showing of Megatron with the size of the Sector 7 bunker and all the people working on keeping him frozen and contained, but ultimately if that's what he was going for he failed in it. I'm not sure what his thought process was for that scene. But it was a very passive showing, and personally I liked that. I don't think it needed drama. Much like the ID4 ship, it was, "Hey, you guys wanna see Megatron? Here's Megatron."

Are you talking about when the alien fighter is revealed or when one of the alien ships hovers over L.A./New York/Paris/Moscow etc etc? Cause if its when the fighter is revealed, then yeah you're right, those scenes have a lot in common with each other. But then again, the figher is only a small piece of the puzzle in ID4. It doesn't hold the same status as Megatron does in Transformers you know what i mean?

And yeah, that scene in Close Encounters is great isn't it.

 

[<RJMC>]

and how was the megatron reveal?

 

[Lucid]

Portman hasn't acted well since Leon, btw. Point to me a movie where she acts better than she does as Mathilda and I'll take a look, but I've yet to see any movie she does recently where she acts even a quarter as good as she did back then in her first role. But, I'm going off on a tangent here.

V for Vendetta and Garden State were pretty good Portman movies.

 

[CrazyHarij]

yadayada

I can agree with some of your points but I think the message you're putting through is mainly senseless nitpicking, "I could do better than that guy because I don't have to worry about the movie being accessible to the majority of US visitors". I just came back from seeing the movie and I think it was pretty great. There was a tad too much hollywood-esque storyline (essentially, the only time a hot chick can fall for a guy who doesn't has biceps bigger than his head is when intergalactic robots are threatening humanity?), but the effects and the robots were extremely well pulled off. They had lots of character, and I the ending worked out pretty well (even though it religiously followed classical dramaturgy). The advertising was too over the top, but it's pretty clear it financed some of the pricier scenes of the film.

Something that it's too late to moan about right now is that storylines are for TV-series and cinema movies are hold the domain for pricy effect-coated roller coaster journeys, and in that aspect the film pulls it off really well. I went to see some big mother****ing robots opening a can of whoopass, and that's what I got.

By the way, I've never been a transformers fan.

ps. The token brother didn't go first!

I actually like the taste of tequila and other hard liquors ..had a couple of shots of ukranian vodka the other night at a friends ...very very smooth with a slight black licorice taste

word up. ukrainian vodka is the shit. you should try out moskovskaya sometime, it's the best vodka i've ever tasted.

 

[Javert]

Being a rabid fan of neither, should I go watch "Transformers" or "Die Hard 4" today? I've seen and enjoyed the trailers and it's pretty much a coinflip for me. I'm sure I can...electronically appropriate the one I don't go see but I'd like my fellow hl2.netters' opinions.

 

[Kamikazie]

Transformers.

 

[The Brick]

I've just seen it. It was a good watch. I've never really been a fan of transformers and I know shit about it, but it was cool. Well worth my 8 euro.

Oh and haven't read the thread due to politics rape.

 

[Lucid]

Being a rabid fan of neither, should I go watch "Transformers" or "Die Hard 4" today? I've seen and enjoyed the trailers and it's pretty much a coinflip for me. I'm sure I can...electronically appropriate the one I don't go see but I'd like my fellow hl2.netters' opinions.

You'll get more BANG! for your buck with Die Hard.

 

[Dan]

Closer was a terrible movie, unless you like movies where everyone is messed in the head and nothing happens and there is no conclusion

 

[Adabiviak]

I just got back from watching it. I liked the movie, but all I wanted out of it was to see the Transformers duke on the big screen and that's what I got. If I want storyline, documentary, horror, or combinations of these, I'll see something else and keep my expectations at that level. The same thing went for Alien vs. Predator - all I want is enough storyline to get these critters in the boxing ring and I loved it. Yes, from an asthetic point of view, these are awful movies, but both my wife and I got $15 worth of entertainment out of it for sure. Sometimes I love a movie with a deep metaphor, excellent character development, engaging storyline, etc. Sometimes I want space robots to smash each other.

By the way - what did you think of the sounds of their cannons? I thought they were spot on, that's how I want weapons in FPSs to sound.

 

[Fliko]

I thought this was ****ing amazing.
If you looked at this movie seriously, then you fail... hard

 

[Zephos]

But I wanted moar Transformers battling it out