Ubisoft's new online DRM system . . .

[DEATHMASTER]

Maybe. Wait. What.

 

[Shakermaker]

Maybe. Wait. What.

Never mind, I misunderstood. I disagree with you though. Piracy should be part of the discussion imo because it is part of the problem.

 

[Kyorisu]

And then the Auth servers came tumbling down. I'm surprised Ubisoft lost the plot so quickly.

I'll do what I can to get more information on what the issue is here first thing tomorrow and push for a resolution and assurance this won't happen in the future.

I've heard this kind of talk before allow me to translate it.

"We'll do absolutely nothing about this happening and will not try to resolve any issues our perfect DRM system has. All I'm doing by saying this is giving you the false impression that we are in fact doing something when we are not."

Assurance? How can you assure it? You can say it almost won't but you can't give a 100% guarantee.

That is the usual knee-jerk reaction and it also doesn't answer my question. If you were Ubi or any other publisher, how would you combat piracy?

Oh I don't know. Make good games? I certainly wouldn't be treating my customers like pirates.

Ubisoft have shown themselves to be incompetent fools for sometime now. We can only hope that incompetence shines here.

That's great until you systematically lose connection to the internet at your or the customers end.

Called it.

 

[Shakermaker]

Oh I don't know. Make good games?

That won't fix the problem. GalCiv2 and Company of Heroes were two prime examples of good games with hardly or no DRM, which as a result were pirated to bits. Constructive solutions please.

Dunno what to think about this whole DDoS thing btw. It feels a bit like when the local tram company is on strike. I can understand where it is coming from and it makes a good point, but whoever is responsible for it is hurting the wrong people.

 

[Absinthe]

It does suck for those who purchased these Ubisoft titles, but they'll be playing their games again soon enough. If this was a DoS attack, hopefully it will show everybody how vulnerable and crippling this kind of DRM can be and customers will demand a change. If their system can't reasonably protect the customer's purchase, then it needs to be held accountable considering the fact that it's intrinsically tied to their products.

 

[Krynn72]

I dont think people realize how stupid piracy is. People will just download shit for no god damn reason what so ever, just because its there. Its not that even that they want to play it, or are even interested. We had a game that sold only a couple hundred copies, and nobody even really knows of its existence, yet its been "pirated" over 40,000 times. People just download shit to see what it is. All these anti-piracy measure will absolutely not result in significant amounts of profits. Frankly, I think developers and publishers will likely end up losing money after the costs of developing and implementing new DRM systems every times it gets cracked.

 

[Acepilotf14]

That won't fix the problem. GalCiv2 and Company of Heroes were two prime examples of good games with hardly or no DRM, which as a result were pirated to bits. Constructive solutions please.

Except I bought both of those games. Because I enjoyed them, and they didn't have restrictive DRM. GalCiv2 especially.

What is your solution?
Make every customer send a photo into the developer with the game box, CD key, disc, your social security number and two forms of ID so that they can get ANOTHER CD key that will actually work?

It's just so silly. The only viable solution is for everyone to use a Steam-like program, but even that turns some people off, no matter how much I may like Steam. And even then there are versions of steam-only games that can be run without Steam.

 

[taviow]

All it takes is four, maybe five hackers pooling $50, catching/copying the necessary files as they're downloaded, and a week to crack it.

A week?

 

[Kyorisu]

That won't fix the problem. GalCiv2 and Company of Heroes were two prime examples of good games with hardly or no DRM, which as a result were pirated to bits. Constructive solutions please.

How much a game is pirated is irrelevant you don't seem to understand this. It seems to be like you're pushing the piracy = lost sales argument. I bought GalCiv 1 and 2 btw. All that matters is Stardock made a profit and from the fact they've supported both games rather well and are still in the business of publishing games I'd say they're doing rather well.

What does it matter anyway? Ubisofts DRM isn't stopping pirates so how is it an argument towards stopping them?

 

[Paulaner]

All it takes is four, maybe five hackers pooling $50, catching/copying the necessary files as they're downloaded, and a week to crack it.

Maybe more than one week, the "download game while you play" mechanics are tough, but it will eventually be cracked.

 

[taviow]

More like a day, as I said.

 

[Paulaner]

More like a day, as I said.

Not likely, in my opinion.

 

[taviow]

http://boingboing.net/2010/03/04/ubisofts-notorious-u.html

Fact.

 

[Paulaner]

http://boingboing.net/2010/03/04/ubisofts-notorious-u.html

Fact.

I don't think that those are full-working cracks. Only people who played the cracked game from start to end can tell for sure.

 

[Kyorisu]

That isn't a perfect crack. It works but apparently it doesn't.

 

[taviow]

If they've already got as far as they did so quickly, then I still doubt it'll take a week.

Well, doesn't matter to us anyway!

 

[Kyorisu]

GalCiv2 and Company of Heroes were two prime examples of good games with hardly or no DRM, which as a result were pirated to bits. Constructive solutions please.

/CAPSLOCK

THERE IS NO SYSTEM THAT CAN STOP PIRATES THAT DOESN'T SHIT ALL OVER A CUSTOMERS ABILITY TO USE THE PRODUCT THEY PAID FOR. STOP ADVOCATING DRM AS THE SOLUTION TO PIRACY IT DOESN'T WORK. I DON'T WANT MY GAMES HAVING ALL THIS SECUROM/TAGES/WHATEVER SHIT ON THEM WHEN THEY DO NOTHING TO STOP PIRACY.

/CAPSLOCK

Simple systems such as disc checks, Steam and the like are fine they don't get in my way.

I'm being constructive those are good games. They've both got expansion packs ffs.

Dark Avatar
Twilight of the Arnor

Opposing Fronts
Tales of Valor

They wouldn't have made these if the games didn't make them a profit. I mean come on piracy is irrelevant here. Focus on your customers not the pirates. Funny I should mention customers. Ubisoft PC titles tend to be horrible ports, maybe if they'd improve the quality of the damn game people would buy it?

 

[Shakermaker]

The only viable solution is for everyone to use a Steam-like program, but even that turns some people off, no matter how much I may like Steam. And even then there are versions of steam-only games that can be run without Steam.

But that is exactly what the UBI DRM thingy does, minus the offline mode. If Ubi is smart, they add something like that before this thing blows up in their faces even more.

EDIT "Buyfags". That sums up your position quite nicely, Kyo.

 

[smwScott]

But that is exactly what the UBI DRM thingy does, minus the offline mode. If Ubi is smart, they add something like that before this thing blows up in their faces even more.

If they implement an offline mode then there's no ****ing point in even having it at all. That's what separates this from other forms of DRM and it's the only reason it's been as effective as it has. If (when) the game is fully cracked they should release a patch that enables an offline mode.

It seems to me they could probably get the system a bit more foolproof if instead of downloading the small level files they just hosted them on their server. Also once they start designing games from the ground up with this system it'll probably be harder to crack.

I don't think the point is to permanently stop pirating. I think the point is to delay it, hopefully for a few weeks. Let's face it, the people who pirate videogames like these are comprised entirely of nerds that were willing to spend the money on systems capable of running them (probably better than most of the paying customers). There's a good chance that these types would simply be impatient and buy the damn thing rather than wait weeks to see if they may or may not get a fully working version out.

I on the other hand think all games are stupidly overpriced and only resort to buying them when they're insanely good and/or significantly marked down.

This is not to say that I support this, but I can see both sides. It may not be a bad decision. The vast majority of people who are buying this stuff aren't the same angry nerds that get up in arms about their "rights" being violated. They don't give a **** and most of them won't even know the system is running. Also, unlike other forms of DRM, it does offer some side benefits to the user.

It's also worth noting that I bet 90% of us in this thread, on both sides of the argument, pirate games and other media ruthlessly regardless of whether it's admitted to.

 

[Acepilotf14]

There's a good chance that these types would simply be impatient and buy the damn thing rather than wait weeks to see if they may or may not get a fully working version out.

Haha no.

 

[VirusType2]

I on the other hand think all games are stupidly overpriced and only resort to buying them when they're insanely good and/or significantly marked down.

Same here.


Here's my idea of the kind of people who want Assassin's Creed -

The vast majority are probably: Elementary, Middle, High-School, and College students.

None of these people have any money!

And one game costs as much as it takes to feed an average child for a month. A kid can burn through a game in a matter of days, and parents know it.

It's also worth noting that I bet 90% of us in this thread, on both sides of the argument, pirate games and other media ruthlessly regardless of whether it's admitted to.

There's a handful of people here that I believe pirate games - not all games, but some games. 90%? That's crazy.

 

[Absinthe]

He did say "other media". I'm sure you have an MP3 library somewhere with contents you didn't pay anything for. =P

 

[V-Man339]

The fact is, most of the pirated copies that will inevitably come out would never have been a sold game otherwise at any point, if only because of the invasive DRM, which pirates themselves are working to crack.
In the end, no matter which side is in the right, wrong, legal or illegal, the consumer is the one who suffers the most. If the consumer can find a better experience by pirating the game instead of buying it he has little to no incentive to purchase this game, used or new. As such, DRM like this that delivers nothing but grief to the user (Steam at least gives benefits such as achievements, updates and an easy way to shop) will inevitably be worse for the consumer and the publisher, resulting in everyone realizing that there is a line, and Ubisoft crossed it.

 

[Krynn72]

But that is exactly what the UBI DRM thingy does, minus the offline mode. If Ubi is smart, they add something like that before this thing blows up in their faces even more.

EDIT "Buyfags". That sums up your position quite nicely, Kyo.

Yeah, make it like steam. That makes piracy go away!

/ignores all the cracked steam games

 

[Shakermaker]

I meant as a kind of containment of the shitstorm Ubi has found itself in. This isn't about DRM anymore, is it?

 

[Paulaner]

From a technical point of view, I must admit that tying the game to the intenet in such a strict way is effective in slowing first-days piracy. If this is what Ubi wanted, they succeded. Customers are buying a license to connect to Ubi servers to play/download the game. Plus, savegames are not saved on the gamer pc, plus when you install from dvd you don't have the full game. This model is hard to crack. But I don't want such kind of experiences when playing games, so I don't buy Ubi games.

 

[smwScott]

I meant as a kind of containment of the shitstorm Ubi has found itself in. This isn't about DRM anymore, is it?

Shitstorm? Not really.

You've got to remember that sites like this are in a bubble. People that care about this stuff are a)few in number and b)statistically more likely to pirate it anyway.

Even more "mainstream" sites like IGN or whatever are only going to run a few articles on it. Most people that buy games just don't give that much of a shit.

And on top of all that is the fact that it's more or less working. As far as I know they haven't gotten a fully working version of either game out yet...

 

[stemot]

Shitstorm? Not really.

You've got to remember that sites like this are in a bubble. People that care about this stuff are a)few in number and b)statistically more likely to pirate it anyway.

Even more "mainstream" sites like IGN or whatever are only going to run a few articles on it. Most people that buy games just don't give that much of a shit.

And on top of all that is the fact that it's more or less working. As far as I know they haven't gotten a fully working version of either game out yet...

Well the PC reviews certainly seem to be focusing on the DRM weighing the game down and it's being reflected in their scores, so more people are going to find out about it one way or another.

 

[Lokain]

Shitstorm? Not really.

You've got to remember that sites like this are in a bubble. People that care about this stuff are a)few in number and b)statistically more likely to pirate it anyway.

Even more "mainstream" sites like IGN or whatever are only going to run a few articles on it. Most people that buy games just don't give that much of a shit.

And on top of all that is the fact that it's more or less working. As far as I know they haven't gotten a fully working version of either game out yet...

Actually I wont link any nor did I download it but yeah they have now a fully working version based from what Ive seen in other forums.... fast little buggers I know.


And guess they pissed enough people for them to be attacked, well the servers. Down time for about a day, officially they said 95% didn't noticed the down time.

Who knows I mean they did lie about a "non-working" pirated version. It's not going to stop Piracy, look at batman arkham asylum the drm affected gameplay it only took them a few weeks for the patch.

These people never intended to buy the game, the pirates are in it for the challenge, and most consumers given the choice would of course bite at something free. I buy my games legit reason is I'm a passionate gamer and I intend support people who make things I love.

Now think of companies treating the only customers they have left and treating them like crap like UBis DRM, and yes not everybody has a solid connection namely me.

And bad enough PC gamers have to think of compatibility issues with hardware now we have to think about DRM.

I'll stop ranting now...... :stare:

 

[VirusType2]

the pirates are in it for the challenge

Hackers enjoy a challenge, pirates want easy and free.

 

[Lokain]

Hackers enjoy a challenge, pirates want easy and free.

Yeah good point just replace hackers from pirates and consumers to pirates.

 

[kupocake]

It's UBIGEDDON

Though not in the US or anywhere apart from the UK. So not really at all.

A senior source told the site Valve doesn’t want to lose face over “its reputation for customer service, and these games have angered its user-base.”

Second Source

 

[Paulaner]

Way to go, Valve! You have the balls! Now, let's drop C&C4, too. Last time I checked it was a RTS, not a MMORPG. A permanent internet connection is not an acceptable requirement, IMO.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Wait, how can Steam UK do something like that if it hasn't happened in the US? Being an American-owned company, you'd think they had the final say in this kind of thing.

Also, regardless of how awful the DRM is, how does removing these games help the consumer in any way? Honestly, given Steam's reputation in the UK (pricing etc), this could be viewed as just as much of a f*ck up as a bold statement.

 

[kupocake]

Also, regardless of how awful the DRM is, how does removing these games help the consumer in any way? Honestly, given Steam's reputation in the UK (pricing etc), this could be viewed as just as much of a f*ck up as a bold statement.

The idea occurs to me that Ubisoft's already patchy UK coverage is just being spun as a 'bold statement' against daft DRM practices. Needless to say, even if Valve / Steam are taking a stand in the UK, it's utterly meaningless.

 

[Paulaner]

Wait, how can Steam UK do something like that if it hasn't happened in the US? Being an American-owned company, you'd think they had the final say in this kind of thing.
.

Agreed. If Valve adopts a policy prohibiting draconian DRMs, it has to be valid all over the world.

 

[Gargantou]

I admit to inadvertedly supporting this DRM since I finance Ubisoft by buying their console games.

I am an awful, awful man. I know.

 

[stemot]

Well, Assassins Creed 2 has been cracked. I mean properly cracked and not the server emulator that has been floating around that required certain missions completed in precise orders or specific ways.
This crack completely bypasses the use of the Ubi launcher. I bought the game on release day and never suffered any ill effects of the DRM but I am glad that Ubisofts attempts at an even worse "rental" system than Securoms has been bypassed.

Edit:- Settlers 7, the game everyone thought would have too many values has been cracked fully as well, the floodgates are opening on this protection.