uh oh in the sewer/flying buzzsaw scene.

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by The Mullinator
Im giving the same answer ive given to all of the other theads about bugs found in the demos.

They will probably have the problem fixed for the final release, plain and simple.

It may be not so much a bug as a feature of the engine. Thats what worries some people (not me though).

 

[Apos]

I haven't seen that information as clearly as you put it in here...

Then you haven't looked and/or thought about it enough. Check the info thread, and think about what was said. I agree that objects in the shipped game will most likely be breakable at only a few points, and I think that's still really great when coupled with the physics system. I don't have any problem with that, and really it's pretty silly to expect that 3d engines based on polygon rendering can simply toss away the rigid poly format for an infinately divisible one. Valve never implied that that was the case.

My problem is that people here want to bother Valve on this issue AGAIN after they've already given perfectly intelligible answers to. And when Valve doesn't sigh and type out yet another response to the same question right away, they get accused of a cover up.

 

[Seb]

Originally posted by Apos
Then you haven't looked and/or thought about it enough. Check the info thread, and think about what was said. I agree that objects in the shipped game will most likely be breakable at only a few points, and I think that's still really great when coupled with the physics system. I don't have any problem with that, and really it's pretty silly to expect that 3d engines based on polygon rendering can simply toss away the rigid poly format for an infinately divisible one. Valve never implied that that was the case.

My problem is that people here want to bother Valve on this issue AGAIN after they've already given perfectly intelligible answers to. And when Valve doesn't sigh and type out yet another response to the same question right away, they get accused of a cover up.

I just wanted a more specific answer than the one you have found. And I never wanted infinately small pieces of the breakable wood, thats silly. I just want to know if breaking the wood will FEEL totally real, cause that would be very cool in my opinion.....or if it will be like in other games that you think "oh that was scripted", or if it will be inbetween

 

[Twilight]

Also, didn't they confirm that these videos were made about a year ago, mainly as proof of concept videos? If that's true, then these are just to showcase some of the main features, and show that yes, the engine works and generally does what they want it to. In fact, you'll notice that the buzzsaw part of the video is probably showing off the buzzsaws themselves, as well as some of the architecture, and so perhaps they just slapped together some basic effects for the rest. Again, proof of concept, not uber-1337 video of all time, although it *was* pretty dang cool for a proof of concept video, no?

Twilight

 

[Peks]

well gabe said the new movies should looks close to exactly how the final game will ship...plus much higher rez.


xtasy - what i meant was...possibly only gun impacts from the player's weapin can activate the closest breakpoint. possibly other objects breaking the plank of wood, such as buzzsaws and enemies, only activate the center breakpoint.

a highly unlikely theory though. if you dont get this explanation then im SoL cause its the best i can explain it.

 

[Apos]

No, these vids were not made a year ago. They were recorded off a recent build before e3, which is why the crowbar was so clunky: they had only just put it in, and hadn't done the animation, timing, or effects yet.

 

[rootbin]

apos- gabe has stated in an email posted somewhere in the 'info from valve only' that the crowbar animation flaw was due to errors in demo playback, not a lack of time to create a good animation.

ALSO-
i can't believe none of you have apparently read this thread/email. you're duplicating another post.

READ.

------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Here's a new question for you!


In the tech-demo movie, we all saw those wooden planks that were shot to pieces, and the structure fell very realistic.
I wonder if all, or maybe just some of the wooden objects in the game, like for example tables and chairs and so on, are build up of individual wooden planks, or are they completely solid objects?
That is, could you for example shoot two legs off at any position from a table, making it slant/tilt a little or very much depending on how much you cut those legs, or maybe shoot a bit off from all legs on a chair and thereby lower it.......OR do they react as in other games, that is they break apart as a solid object? Or is it somewhat inbetween, that you can cut off a leg, but only at one specific position?




It's up to the designer. They can be created as a single contiguous model for physics, or created as a group of models and attached together with various breakable constraints. Or you could swap out a single model for multiple parts on breaking, which is more like what we did in HL1. The break points are where the constraints are, so unless you have additional constraints up and down the leg, the best you'll probably get is the entire leg breaking off and the table tilting over/falling, etc as expected.

Yahn

-----------------------------

this means that yes, it is possible, and there are probably many places in HL2 where they do this. it also means that if you are creating a mod that targets low-end systems, you will be able to take this out. it's simply adding more customizability, and since when is that BAD?

 

[ReZeroX]

i was just looking though that scene with the buzzsaws and noticed somthing weird. (other then the breakin wood and things getting hit before the animation catchs up with it)

btw: how do you attach a pic instead of putting it directly into the message?

 

[rootbin]

ReZeroX and Apos-

-----------------
2: One thing many people have wondered about is the crow bar animation, when he swung it did the same animation and did not apear as though it had really hit the wood. Any iformation on this i would love.





there was a bug in the DEM playback related to prediction, so it looked like
the crowbar (and the swinging beam) were causing things to move before they
hit them. This was a playback problem since fixed, not a gameplay issue.
The crowbar is physically simulated.

------------------

that's why things break before you see the object hit them, rezero. errors in the prediction code.

 

[ApocalypseNow]

Originally posted by ReZeroX
i was just looking though that scene with the buzzsaws and noticed somthing weird. (other then the breakin wood and things getting hit before the animation catchs up with it)

Already fixed... gabe sent a email saying it has been fixed a long time ago. check the email posts....

 

[rootbin]

are my posts invisible? x.x

 

[ReZeroX]

oh yeah, i understood that awhile ago. i know they fixed it. i was just saying it was a weird thing and NOT what people whould have thought i was talking about.

can anyone see the pic? im not sure if its appearing.

 

[Seb]

Originally posted by rootbin
apos- gabe has stated in an email posted somewhere in the 'info from valve only' that the crowbar animation flaw was due to errors in demo playback, not a lack of time to create a good animation.

ALSO-
i can't believe none of you have apparently read this thread/email. you're duplicating another post.

READ.

------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
Wrom: CDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAIJJ
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Here's a new question for you!


In the tech-demo movie, we all saw those wooden planks that were shot to pieces, and the structure fell very realistic.
I wonder if all, or maybe just some of the wooden objects in the game, like for example tables and chairs and so on, are build up of individual wooden planks, or are they completely solid objects?
That is, could you for example shoot two legs off at any position from a table, making it slant/tilt a little or very much depending on how much you cut those legs, or maybe shoot a bit off from all legs on a chair and thereby lower it.......OR do they react as in other games, that is they break apart as a solid object? Or is it somewhat inbetween, that you can cut off a leg, but only at one specific position?




It's up to the designer. They can be created as a single contiguous model for physics, or created as a group of models and attached together with various breakable constraints. Or you could swap out a single model for multiple parts on breaking, which is more like what we did in HL1. The break points are where the constraints are, so unless you have additional constraints up and down the leg, the best you'll probably get is the entire leg breaking off and the table tilting over/falling, etc as expected.

Yahn

-----------------------------

this means that yes, it is possible, and there are probably many places in HL2 where they do this. it also means that if you are creating a mod that targets low-end systems, you will be able to take this out. it's simply adding more customizability, and since when is that BAD?

Thanks Thats in fact my own mail that someone else mailed a copy of to see if he (she?) would get an answer.
But the answer is still not exactly what I want to know, since it doesn't say how it will be in the game, just what is possible (maybe only theoretically possible) for the map-maker.
Guess we'll see ourselfs in September if everything goes as planned

 

[$niper]

Demo artifacts.

 

[Foggy]

Well, they won't fix it. Cause it will not be in. But is that a big deal? no, the game will be brilliant.

 

[Apos]

Rootbin, I thought I made it clear that I WAS saying that the crowbar stuff was just a recent addition, not its final form.

 

[DogFacedKilla]

You guys are ****ing ignorant. ITS A BETA.

 

[Guest]

i not worried a bit it will all be good. i just hope we can still pick up head crabs with the gravity gun and kill them. they said they might take that out ;-/

 

[AmishSlayer]

Some people are analyzing these videos way too much. When I watched the video the first 2 times (before I read this thread) I didn't notice any of these box breaking problems or plank problems. My attention was focused on what is supposed to be focused on, the cool flying buzzsaw thingy. I don't care how boxes or planks break, I'm looking for a fun action game, not a real life sim. Do you guys who really want the boxes to be perfect plan on spending time just breaking boxes 100 times to see the different outcomes? I plan to mess with other things in the game than freakin' wood planks and boxes.

Things I did notice my first 2 times watching were the buzzsaw bouncing properly off different things- also the buzzsaw flying back when it's hit-and also different sounds for the saws hitting different surfaces. So far in games, you usually don't hear detailed sounds like that.

People really need to stop looking at all the small things about the physics engine or how objects don't break like in real life. People need to appreciate HL2 as a whole. And guess what, HL2 is an Action FPS, not a real life simulator. The physics in the game are a bonus in my mind. I still would've been totally excited for the game if there weren't any cool physics involved and I'm surprised more people don't feel this way...

 

[TheWart]

Originally posted by AmishSlayer
Some people are analyzing these videos way too much. When I watched the video the first 2 times (before I read this thread) I didn't notice any of these box breaking problems or plank problems. My attention was focused on what is supposed to be focused on, the cool flying buzzsaw thingy. I don't care how boxes or planks break, I'm looking for a fun action game, not a real life sim. Do you guys who really want the boxes to be perfect plan on spending time just breaking boxes 100 times to see the different outcomes? I plan to mess with other things in the game than freakin' wood planks and boxes.

Things I did notice my first 2 times watching were the buzzsaw bouncing properly off different things- also the buzzsaw flying back when it's hit-and also different sounds for the saws hitting different surfaces. So far in games, you usually don't hear detailed sounds like that.

People really need to stop looking at all the small things about the physics engine or how objects don't break like in real life. People need to appreciate HL2 as a whole. And guess what, HL2 is an Action FPS, not a real life simulator. The physics in the game are a bonus in my mind. I still would've been totally excited for the game if there weren't any cool physics involved and I'm surprised more people don't feel this way...

I like the point you made here.

The physics server to *enhance* the gameplay. They are *not* the gameplay.

 

[Urbanleg]

Originally posted by ReZeroX
i was just looking though that scene with the buzzsaws and noticed somthing weird. (other then the breakin wood and things getting hit before the animation catchs up with it)

btw: how do you attach a pic instead of putting it directly into the message?

People What the hell Is that facE!!!???!??

 

[LoneDeranger]

I don't know, but I saw blood come out of that thing.

 

[ReZeroX]

the blood was from gordon. when he hits the thing it hits him a bit too, watch the vid and you notice his health goes down.

edit: oh, and i was just thinking. what was mentioned about the model maker in this game? does HL2 still use .mdl? i love the HL Model Viewer prog and now somone will have to make a second if its a differnent file type. i was hoping to inspect the models when the game is out to look for eastereggs like G-mans briefcase.

 

[Chris D]

Doubtful. The .mdl model system is way too restrictive. Also they animate and model in a different application to what they used to.

I'm sure there'll be one made or included.

 

[Chris D]

Originally posted by Seb
Thanks Thats in fact my own mail that someone else mailed a copy of to see if he (she?) would get an answer.
But the answer is still not exactly what I want to know, since it doesn't say how it will be in the game, just what is possible (maybe only theoretically possible) for the map-maker.
Guess we'll see ourselfs in September if everything goes as planned

There will be a mix of the two effects. Sometimes it'll be like the wood structure at the beginning of the large E3 demo and sometimes it'll be like the buzzsaw demo. It all depends on the situation and what's more suitable at the time.

 

[infin|ty]

I think for alot of people, the physics will impact their enjoyment a great deal. No, the physics are not the game, however without them, would there be this much buzz and amazement? Not even close. It would be another FPS, only with a powerful franchise behind and and some pretty visuals. Wow, haven't we done that before? Unreal 2 anyone?

If the physics are true to life, the game has a much much longer replayablity. You can just run around and shoot stuff, break stuff, watch stuff interact with other things, and know it will all turn out different depending on how/where it is shot/hit etc. That is fun. It is not fun knowing that no matter what you do, the result is the same. Some pre-programmed, pre-thought out, bullshit.

It is getting to the point where it just isn't fun to shoot the same things, over and over and over again, basically running around in a lifeless world. The genre has to evolve, and to do such it needs to take on life-like characteristics.

Will I not buy HL2 cause the wood doesn't break accurately? Of course not. Will I not enjoy it as much? You bet.

 

[cyborgguineapig]

funny how you make these points when things like boxes in HL1 always broke the same way so...your point...about replay value? I've played HL through like 20 times and just finished the 20'th time yesterday so...

 

[Guest]

what i like in this video are the pieces of glass on the floor, they looks realistic

 

[Solidarnosi]

Originally posted by cyborgguineapig
funny how you make these points when things like boxes in HL1 always broke the same way so...your point...about replay value? I've played HL through like 20 times and just finished the 20'th time yesterday so...

Very good point :cheers: I haven't kept track of it, but I'm of a similar feeling about hl1. When I get my hands on HL2 omg

 

[Wesisapie]

the sparks are purdy

 

[0zz0]

i think you guys would have never noticed it unless uve gone through the whole movie frame by frame i mean cmon have any of you made a game this sucsessfull. I didnt think so, Valve is doing the best they can witch is obviously awesome so just wait and see what heppens. If the game sux when it comes out bitch then.

 

[Lifthz]

Obviously there are things that can be fixed, obviously there will still be some stuff that are not realistic as we'd want them to be. It doesn't mean that the game won't be great and fun.

Originally posted by infin|ty
I think for alot of people, the physics will impact their enjoyment a great deal. No, the physics are not the game, however without them, would there be this much buzz and amazement? Not even close. It would be another FPS, only with a powerful franchise behind and and some pretty visuals. Wow, haven't we done that before? Unreal 2 anyone?

If the physics are true to life, the game has a much much longer replayablity. You can just run around and shoot stuff, break stuff, watch stuff interact with other things, and know it will all turn out different depending on how/where it is shot/hit etc. That is fun. It is not fun knowing that no matter what you do, the result is the same. Some pre-programmed, pre-thought out, bullshit.

It is getting to the point where it just isn't fun to shoot the same things, over and over and over again, basically running around in a lifeless world. The genre has to evolve, and to do such it needs to take on life-like characteristics.

Will I not buy HL2 cause the wood doesn't break accurately? Of course not. Will I not enjoy it as much? You bet.

Actually those physics ARE the reason i'm buying Half-Life 2... especially in multiplayer.